Who are you taking Round 1?

[ellicottraven]

3 hours ago, hn68wb4 said:

Since Howard was just brought up...

What player(s) in the first do think are realistic but you'd be somewhat surprised if we pick them?

I was just thinking about OJ Howard and I would be extremely surprised if he's our pick either at 16 or after a trade back. But I think it's a realistic pick that Ozzie might make if both top WRs are gone since, at least at the moment, our receiving corps is pretty lukewarm. I actually don't much like Howard's fit with us, he's a very dynamic talent but the way we've always used TEs, or at least how Flacco's always utilized TEs, is tough catches over the middle of the field and i question whether Howard's hands are good enough to be that guy to make catches above his head with guys draped over him. But, that being said, he's a great blocker - and by all accounts we want to run the ball first and foremost - and, as I said, Howard is a phenomenal athlete at his size with both speed and power. I don't want him to be the pick, I'd most likely not have him as BPA, but it seems like a possible route we could go.

I'd also file Jabrill Peppers in this category. I don't like his fit with us, I think he needs to be a weakside LB in the 4-3 in the same vein as Barron or Bucannon, but he's, again, a phenomenal athlete and he's got instincts around the line of scrimmage. Not to mention he also solves our revolving door at returner as well. Again, to me, he seems like a pick that Ozzie might make even though he's not one of the guys that I'd want.

In other words, you simply mean that we don't have the creative coaching to utilize their skill sets? With the hiring of Roman, I think our offensive schemes will improve. As for the players, same old, same old unless we draft some studs like Fournette or Williams.

[jazz1988]

4 hours ago, hn68wb4 said:

Since Howard was just brought up...

What player(s) in the first do think are realistic but you'd be somewhat surprised if we pick them?

I was just thinking about OJ Howard and I would be extremely surprised if he's our pick either at 16 or after a trade back. But I think it's a realistic pick that Ozzie might make if both top WRs are gone since, at least at the moment, our receiving corps is pretty lukewarm. I actually don't much like Howard's fit with us, he's a very dynamic talent but the way we've always used TEs, or at least how Flacco's always utilized TEs, is tough catches over the middle of the field and i question whether Howard's hands are good enough to be that guy to make catches above his head with guys draped over him. But, that being said, he's a great blocker - and by all accounts we want to run the ball first and foremost - and, as I said, Howard is a phenomenal athlete at his size with both speed and power. I don't want him to be the pick, I'd most likely not have him as BPA, but it seems like a possible route we could go.

I'd also file Jabrill Peppers in this category. I don't like his fit with us, I think he needs to be a weakside LB in the 4-3 in the same vein as Barron or Bucannon, but he's, again, a phenomenal athlete and he's got instincts around the line of scrimmage. Not to mention he also solves our revolving door at returner as well. Again, to me, he seems like a pick that Ozzie might make even though he's not one of the guys that I'd want.

 

Darren Waller is still developing but The Ravens really haven't had  a tight end with speed since Ed Dickson. When Ed Dickson was a starter or when  ever he was used he was relied upon running more of those deeper routes . He was serviceable but of course his inconsistency with catching the ball is what he did him in and gave Dennis Pitta a shot to take over but Howard could give The Ravens the speed they been missing if they want to move on from the Darren Waller at tight end experiment.  Greg Roman is also the tight end coach and  has used  Vernon Davis  while being The 49ers offensive coordinator so I'm sure he would be able to give his ideas to Marty Mornhinweg on how to use a tight end like OJ Howard.

Edited February 5 by jazz1988

[PurpleCity5]

10 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I think once Williams learns to run routes like the best receivers in the NFL, he's going to be one of the premiere receivers in the NFL. I think right now he gets by largely on extreme talent and natural ability, but once he really learns the game, watch out. It's going to be scary. Reminds me of Mike Evans in that sense. Not the most nuanced receiver, but he'll still dominate.

I can agree with the route running on Williams, but I think early on he's going to have to win in a variety of more ways than natural ability such as high-pointing the ball and catching radius, NFL CBs and Safeties are a different breed and it's going to be a huge adjustment for him. I don't think that means he struggles out of the gate, but I don't think he's going to make the same impact as Davis who can do both of those things but win in more ways. I think both guys are going to make an impact day one but I think Davis is going to do a bit better out of the gate and also possesses a high ceiling even though I would agree that Williams might be a bit higher. 

[Jacquouille]

16 hours ago, hn68wb4 said:

Since Howard was just brought up...

What player(s) in the first do think are realistic but you'd be somewhat surprised if we pick them?

I was just thinking about OJ Howard and I would be extremely surprised if he's our pick either at 16 or after a trade back. But I think it's a realistic pick that Ozzie might make if both top WRs are gone since, at least at the moment, our receiving corps is pretty lukewarm. I actually don't much like Howard's fit with us, he's a very dynamic talent but the way we've always used TEs, or at least how Flacco's always utilized TEs, is tough catches over the middle of the field and i question whether Howard's hands are good enough to be that guy to make catches above his head with guys draped over him. But, that being said, he's a great blocker - and by all accounts we want to run the ball first and foremost - and, as I said, Howard is a phenomenal athlete at his size with both speed and power. I don't want him to be the pick, I'd most likely not have him as BPA, but it seems like a possible route we could go.

I'd also file Jabrill Peppers in this category. I don't like his fit with us, I think he needs to be a weakside LB in the 4-3 in the same vein as Barron or Bucannon, but he's, again, a phenomenal athlete and he's got instincts around the line of scrimmage. Not to mention he also solves our revolving door at returner as well. Again, to me, he seems like a pick that Ozzie might make even though he's not one of the guys that I'd want.

Not sure about Joe always asking his TE to make difficult catches. For most of the year he checked it down countless times to Pitta. Howard can turn those check downs into first downs. And as said above, he's a nightmare in the seam.

[arnie_uk]

20 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I actually think Corey Davis is a sleeper Ravens pick. He's a borderline top 10 talent in this draft and unquestionably the second best boundary receiver in the draft.

Unquestionably AT LEAST the second best receiver in the draft.

[BmoreBird22]

46 minutes ago, arnie_uk said:

Unquestionably AT LEAST the second best receiver in the draft.

I still like Mike Williams as the top receiver, but Davis is going to be a very good receiver for a very long time.

[arnie_uk]

4 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I still like Mike Williams as the top receiver, but Davis is going to be a very good receiver for a very long time.

If both were on the Board I'd keeping trading back 1 spot at a time until someone picks one and just go with the other. Don't think I could decide.

[RaineV1]

After the Super Bowl, I am more sure than ever that we should get Harris if we can (or Barnett if he somehow falls to us). When the Falcons D was getting pressure they were winning. Once they stopped getting pressure later on in that game, Brady then turned around and did the biggest come back in Super Bowl history.

[RavensFanMania]

30 minutes ago, RaineV1 said:

After the Super Bowl, I am more sure than ever that we should get Harris if we can (or Barnett if he somehow falls to us). When the Falcons D was getting pressure they were winning. Once they stopped getting pressure later on in that game, Brady then turned around and did the biggest come back in Super Bowl history.

I totally agree and love Harris for the Ravens.  He can rush for the inside and out, which is important for Ravens edge rushers imo, considering how we tend to use them.  He's really efficient and he hasn't reached his potential. He's good at getting off blocks in the run game and has really strong hands.  He's a very twitchy athlete and just scratching the surface.

[Italian Raven]

55 minutes ago, RavensFanMania said:

I totally agree and love Harris for the Ravens.  He can rush for the inside and out, which is important for Ravens edge rushers imo, considering how we tend to use them.  He's really efficient and he hasn't reached his potential. He's good at getting off blocks in the run game and has really strong hands.  He's a very twitchy athlete and just scratching the surface.

I didn´t see any of this on tapes honestly.
I think he´s one of the worst run defenders I can remember. Terribly undisciplined, tall pads and zero gap control. I´m also pretty sure I´m not overreacting on this one.
I took just a few screenshots to highlights those very bad facets of his game.

1) Offense pulls the TE to CH side in what turns to be a WR reverse run.



He sees the block coming, keeps the eyes on the football



Lateral...steps?! Whut? he should be engaging the blocker, push him backward into the running lane and instead he decides to avoid the TE entirely and take the worst possible angle (useless to say they turned the play into a 30 yd gain. Was it all his fault? no, but if you maintain your assignments and care about defending the edge those things ain´t happen THAT easily) .



2) One other play where he shows he doesn´t possess the adequate mental processing to help the team against the run, putting himself in the right position at the right time (starts from 5tech position, RE).
 

The LT shows him the inside and he gets chipped by the TE. A professional football player who´s selected in the top 10-15 HAS to understand that the offense is running to that side. 


[continues]

[Italian Raven]

Again, the obvious consequence is a wrong angle and a positive (albeit limited) gain. 



3) 5tech, D plays zone (maybe cover 2). 


Nothing special, they pull the TE and use him as lead blocker. Instead of containing an eventual cutback into his zone, he overruns it (doesn´t even keep the eyes on the carrier)
He´s lucky that the RB doesn´t see the hole. Look at where he is. Back to the football 6-7yds in the backfield 

 

[Italian Raven]

Against WV:
1) once again zone D (5t) vs T formation.


RG pull. He bites and gets drawn inside.


Loses track on the RB and shows him his back.


2) Same exact thing
Play option with T formation.


Doesn´t read it correctly, takes wrong angle.


Of course he can´t catch up with his speed later on

[Italian Raven]

This said, he´s definitely a flashy player but not as complete as Barnett. Hard to say who I´d rate higher. Wouldn´t be mad with either but I´m sure Harris needs to hear a few more words from the positional coaches.  

[BmoreBird22]

Matt Miller just did his most recent mock with Barnett falling to 24.

[RaineV1]

32 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Matt Miller just did his most recent mock with Barnett falling to 24.

It's weird how Barnett seems to be sliding further on mock drafts.

[BmoreBird22]

17 minutes ago, RaineV1 said:

It's weird how Barnett seems to be sliding further on mock drafts.

Lack of explosive twitch and closing burst.

Very refined, but just lacks that extra athletic gear.

Taco Charlton is one that seems to be rising. The anti-Barnett. Extremely athletic and explosive, but very inconsistent.

[Giants56Ravens52]

While I think Harris or Barnett would be excellent picks, I really think Davis is the way to go as of right now. In my opinion he's going to be a stud for a very long time.  Not to mention the drop-off in talent after those top couple of WRs as compared to other deeper positions in the draft.

 

 

[JoeyFlex5]

2 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Lack of explosive twitch and closing burst.

Very refined, but just lacks that extra athletic gear.

Taco Charlton is one that seems to be rising. The anti-Barnett. Extremely athletic and explosive, but very inconsistent.

One thing that just doesn't seem to accounted for though, and that's the bend, perhaps the most important and uncoachable trait for a pass rusher, and Barnett does it better than any edge rusher in the class 

[RavensDieHard21]

7 hours ago, RaineV1 said:

After the Super Bowl, I am more sure than ever that we should get Harris if we can (or Barnett if he somehow falls to us). When the Falcons D was getting pressure they were winning. Once they stopped getting pressure later on in that game, Brady then turned around and did the biggest come back in Super Bowl history.

Ya I could see that. It was the same way when he faces Denver last year in the championship game. 

The thing though is I think cover corners are almost even more important than the pass rush. Hear me out, there were plays in the late 3rd and the 4th where Jarrett and the rush were getting sacks or applying pressure, but it almost didn't matter. Brady just kept attacking that weak secondary and kept targeting Pool knowing he was the weak link. 

Id advocate for a rush by taking Harris but we've seen in he past, in 14' divisional game, that Brady neutralized our great pass rush by dinking and dunking against our suspect secondary. You get 2 elite defenders--presumably Smith and our first round pick like Lattimore , Wilson or Jones then have two legit cover guys, such as Young and another early pick like Kevin King or Jourdan Lewis, then bam. It becomes real tough to find easy throws

[RaineV1]

1 hour ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

Ya I could see that. It was the same way when he faces Denver last year in the championship game. 

The thing though is I think cover corners are almost even more important than the pass rush. Hear me out, there were plays in the late 3rd and the 4th where Jarrett and the rush were getting sacks or applying pressure, but it almost didn't matter. Brady just kept attacking that weak secondary and kept targeting Pool knowing he was the weak link. 

Id advocate for a rush by taking Harris but we've seen in he past, in 14' divisional game, that Brady neutralized our great pass rush by dinking and dunking against our suspect secondary. You get 2 elite defenders--presumably Smith and our first round pick like Lattimore , Wilson or Jones then have two legit cover guys, such as Young and another early pick like Kevin King or Jourdan Lewis, then bam. It becomes real tough to find easy throws

To be fair in that case the Ravens' backfield was a dumpster fire. It was a great pass rush with possibly the worst secondary in Ravens' history. While we could definitely use some depth (I'd happily spend a 2nd or 3rd on a corner), I don't think we'd get as abused by the quick passes as we did before. Young would definitely do better than the corners in that game did against it. And Weddle is a huge improvement over the safeties we had.