[News] Late For Work 1/27: Top Question For Seven Ravens Positions

[BiggMack91]

  1 hour ago, Crusader said:

  3 hours ago, Black&purple#55 said:

  3 hours ago, BiggMack91 said:

we can't win unless flacco plays better an we need to run the ball more but that being said if the ravens drafted a RB in the first round that might force these "coaches" to run the ball. but I personally think it would be a mistake to draft a RB in the first round But as far as mike wallace goes ask him to take a pay cut or get rid of him he's good but not worth 8 mill. Then the TE situation I say cut both Pitta and watson saves money an we have some good young talent at TE to replace them. The biggest need is at CB and there is plenty of talented DBs in this draft so I would love to see us load up an get 3-5 DB 2-3 CB 1-2 Safeties but unfortunately we might draft just 2 like last year. As far as pass rush goes I think we have some good talent with Judon and smith but if we don't have a secondary to cover for more than 3 seconds how are you supposed to get any kind of pass rush going so that being said solidify the secondary then worry about the pass rush

Agree, Patriots don't have a great pass rush but their secondary makes them look like they got pass rush

That's because all of their guys have been playing together for years. Only two players have been on different team (Eagles) for a short time and they have a secondary General: Devin McCourty. (7 years). Which brings up again two questions. 1). Do Ravens suck that bad a player selection? 2). Or are the coaches doing a bad job?

We've not drafted CBs with high pick in the last decade, save for Jimmy Smith, and despite multiple efforts to find a value pick in later rounds, only Webb and Young come to mind as successes. We have been slightly better with veteran FAs - guys like Graham, Williams, and Stewart have done well enough here to price themselves out of our willingness to pay to retain them.

Perhaps the reason we haven't taken the secondary more seriously is that we had stability with Ed for so long, and we've usually managed to generate a pass rush. Weddle is finally a stabilizing force at the back end, but our pass rush has really fallen off.

our secondary covering for 3-4 seconds at the most is not enough for a pass rush until we have a good secondary there will be not pass rush mark my words

[usmccharles]

1 hour ago, Azzi22 said:

why in the world would we let go of PITTA? clearly the best TE we have on the roster... you cant let go of 80+ catches and 600 yards just like that.. especially when steve smith retired... get rid of waller/boyle/Watson ..

Pitta was a terrible blocker.  Was not getting YAC.  He is over-priced right now and we need to let are younger guys develop. 

[rmcjacket23]

  1 hour ago, BigUgly said:

  1 hour ago, Crusader said:

  4 hours ago, Black&purple#55 said:

  4 hours ago, BiggMack91 said:

we can't win unless flacco plays better an we need to run the ball more but that being said if the ravens drafted a RB in the first round that might force these "coaches" to run the ball. but I personally think it would be a mistake to draft a RB in the first round But as far as mike wallace goes ask him to take a pay cut or get rid of him he's good but not worth 8 mill. Then the TE situation I say cut both Pitta and watson saves money an we have some good young talent at TE to replace them. The biggest need is at CB and there is plenty of talented DBs in this draft so I would love to see us load up an get 3-5 DB 2-3 CB 1-2 Safeties but unfortunately we might draft just 2 like last year. As far as pass rush goes I think we have some good talent with Judon and smith but if we don't have a secondary to cover for more than 3 seconds how are you supposed to get any kind of pass rush going so that being said solidify the secondary then worry about the pass rush

Agree, Patriots don't have a great pass rush but their secondary makes them look like they got pass rush

That's because all of their guys have been playing together for years. Only two players have been on different team (Eagles) for a short time and they have a secondary General: Devin McCourty. (7 years). Which brings up again two questions. 1). Do Ravens suck that bad a player selection? 2). Or are the coaches doing a bad job?

We've not drafted CBs with high pick in the last decade, save for Jimmy Smith, and despite multiple efforts to find a value pick in later rounds, only Webb and Young come to mind as successes. We have been slightly better with veteran FAs - guys like Graham, Williams, and Stewart have done well enough here to price themselves out of our willingness to pay to retain them.

Perhaps the reason we haven't taken the secondary more seriously is that we had stability with Ed for so long, and we've usually managed to generate a pass rush. Weddle is finally a stabilizing force at the back end, but our pass rush has really fallen off.

our secondary covering for 3-4 seconds at the most is not enough for a pass rush until we have a good secondary there will be not pass rush mark my words

Yeah you might want to go back and look at 2014 for why this isn't true.

Our pass rush was very good that year, and our secondary was as abysmal as it gets. Far worse than anything we've seen the last two years.

[GMAC]

  1 hour ago, BigUgly said:

  1 hour ago, Crusader said:

  4 hours ago, Black&purple#55 said:

  4 hours ago, BiggMack91 said:

we can't win unless flacco plays better an we need to run the ball more but that being said if the ravens drafted a RB in the first round that might force these "coaches" to run the ball. but I personally think it would be a mistake to draft a RB in the first round But as far as mike wallace goes ask him to take a pay cut or get rid of him he's good but not worth 8 mill. Then the TE situation I say cut both Pitta and watson saves money an we have some good young talent at TE to replace them. The biggest need is at CB and there is plenty of talented DBs in this draft so I would love to see us load up an get 3-5 DB 2-3 CB 1-2 Safeties but unfortunately we might draft just 2 like last year. As far as pass rush goes I think we have some good talent with Judon and smith but if we don't have a secondary to cover for more than 3 seconds how are you supposed to get any kind of pass rush going so that being said solidify the secondary then worry about the pass rush

Agree, Patriots don't have a great pass rush but their secondary makes them look like they got pass rush

That's because all of their guys have been playing together for years. Only two players have been on different team (Eagles) for a short time and they have a secondary General: Devin McCourty. (7 years). Which brings up again two questions. 1). Do Ravens suck that bad a player selection? 2). Or are the coaches doing a bad job?

We've not drafted CBs with high pick in the last decade, save for Jimmy Smith, and despite multiple efforts to find a value pick in later rounds, only Webb and Young come to mind as successes. We have been slightly better with veteran FAs - guys like Graham, Williams, and Stewart have done well enough here to price themselves out of our willingness to pay to retain them.

Perhaps the reason we haven't taken the secondary more seriously is that we had stability with Ed for so long, and we've usually managed to generate a pass rush. Weddle is finally a stabilizing force at the back end, but our pass rush has really fallen off.

our secondary covering for 3-4 seconds at the most is not enough for a pass rush until we have a good secondary there will be not pass rush mark my words

We have to plan as if Jimmy Smith is permanently injured and when he's available, that's a bonus.

[rmcjacket23]

why in the world would we let go of PITTA? clearly the best TE we have on the roster... you cant let go of 80+ catches and 600 yards just like that.. especially when steve smith retired... get rid of waller/boyle/Watson ..

1. 86 catches for 729 yards isn't exactly great. The reception totals are nice and cute and all, but that's 8.5 Yards/reception. That is embarrassingly bad efficiency by NFL standards.

If you count just qualified pass catchers, he ranked 131st in all of the NFL in yards/reception. If you looked at just TEs, he's as bad as it gets from a yards/reception standpoint. Basically, he's catching a lot of balls, but not really moving the ball that much.

2. His contract is the reason why its tough to keep him. He's due $5.5M next season, and he's not providing anywhere close to that value.

I think he will be back, but I can't see the Ravens paying him that much. He would likely have to take a paycut again to stick around.

[Crusader]

  2 hours ago, Crusader said:

  4 hours ago, Black&purple#55 said:

  4 hours ago, BiggMack91 said:

we can't win unless flacco plays better an we need to run the ball more but that being said if the ravens drafted a RB in the first round that might force these "coaches" to run the ball. but I personally think it would be a mistake to draft a RB in the first round But as far as mike wallace goes ask him to take a pay cut or get rid of him he's good but not worth 8 mill. Then the TE situation I say cut both Pitta and watson saves money an we have some good young talent at TE to replace them. The biggest need is at CB and there is plenty of talented DBs in this draft so I would love to see us load up an get 3-5 DB 2-3 CB 1-2 Safeties but unfortunately we might draft just 2 like last year. As far as pass rush goes I think we have some good talent with Judon and smith but if we don't have a secondary to cover for more than 3 seconds how are you supposed to get any kind of pass rush going so that being said solidify the secondary then worry about the pass rush

Agree, Patriots don't have a great pass rush but their secondary makes them look like they got pass rush

That's because all of their guys have been playing together for years. Only two players have been on different team (Eagles) for a short time and they have a secondary General: Devin McCourty. (7 years). Which brings up again two questions. 1). Do Ravens suck that bad a player selection? 2). Or are the coaches doing a bad job?

We've not drafted CBs with high pick in the last decade, save for Jimmy Smith, and despite multiple efforts to find a value pick in later rounds, only Webb and Young come to mind as successes. We have been slightly better with veteran FAs - guys like Graham, Williams, and Stewart have done well enough here to price themselves out of our willingness to pay to retain them.

Perhaps the reason we haven't taken the secondary more seriously is that we had stability with Ed for so long, and we've usually managed to generate a pass rush. Weddle is finally a stabilizing force at the back end, but our pass rush has really fallen off.

Weddle was a great move but he also getting up there in age and the pass rush really crashed when Nagta left. I hope they pick a good CB in the draft and maybe a safety Weddell can train. STill have some hope in Lewis-Harris, Chris, Canady, Maurice,Price, Sheldon, Rolle, Jumal, Daniel, Robertson, Brown, Sam

[rmcjacket23]

  1 hour ago, BiggMack91 said:

  2 hours ago, BigUgly said:

  2 hours ago, Crusader said:

  4 hours ago, Black&purple#55 said:

  5 hours ago, BiggMack91 said:

we can't win unless flacco plays better an we need to run the ball more but that being said if the ravens drafted a RB in the first round that might force these "coaches" to run the ball. but I personally think it would be a mistake to draft a RB in the first round But as far as mike wallace goes ask him to take a pay cut or get rid of him he's good but not worth 8 mill. Then the TE situation I say cut both Pitta and watson saves money an we have some good young talent at TE to replace them. The biggest need is at CB and there is plenty of talented DBs in this draft so I would love to see us load up an get 3-5 DB 2-3 CB 1-2 Safeties but unfortunately we might draft just 2 like last year. As far as pass rush goes I think we have some good talent with Judon and smith but if we don't have a secondary to cover for more than 3 seconds how are you supposed to get any kind of pass rush going so that being said solidify the secondary then worry about the pass rush

Agree, Patriots don't have a great pass rush but their secondary makes them look like they got pass rush

That's because all of their guys have been playing together for years. Only two players have been on different team (Eagles) for a short time and they have a secondary General: Devin McCourty. (7 years). Which brings up again two questions. 1). Do Ravens suck that bad a player selection? 2). Or are the coaches doing a bad job?

We've not drafted CBs with high pick in the last decade, save for Jimmy Smith, and despite multiple efforts to find a value pick in later rounds, only Webb and Young come to mind as successes. We have been slightly better with veteran FAs - guys like Graham, Williams, and Stewart have done well enough here to price themselves out of our willingness to pay to retain them.

Perhaps the reason we haven't taken the secondary more seriously is that we had stability with Ed for so long, and we've usually managed to generate a pass rush. Weddle is finally a stabilizing force at the back end, but our pass rush has really fallen off.

our secondary covering for 3-4 seconds at the most is not enough for a pass rush until we have a good secondary there will be not pass rush mark my words

We have to plan as if Jimmy Smith is permanently injured and when he's available, that's a bonus.

You never plan for anybody you're committed to being injured. Otherwise you'd have to apply the same principle to every position, in which case you need outstanding depth at literally every position.

No team in the league has that or has anything close to that, and it certainly won't happen here.

[b93333]

3 hours ago, Adreme said:

Being actually healthy instead of coming off an injury when you clearly are not healthy is the first big step.  Flacco got that injury too late in the year to be fully recovered in time for the season and that was a big deal.

Problem with your point is that he was playing the same way prior to his knee injury.

[RavensDieHard21]

9 hours ago, The Beak said:

I think Joe will improve this year, last year the knee may have played a role in his happy feet pocket dances, but we need to RUN the ball, it's the only way to help Joe on third downs, so sick incomplete on 1st down , 2 yd run on 2nd down, and 3rd and long, let the big dogs up front do some paving , try to get 3rd and 2 or 3 , that will help Joe...

We have a finesse line, outside Yanda, we need some maulers in this draft. 

Id easily take pat Eiflein from Ohio in the second. He's an anchor at guard and center. Can't try to keep hoping we hit on mid round guys. 

[RavensDieHard21]

7 hours ago, The Greek said:

wish the front office could find guys like edelman and hogan and wish we had the coaching staff that can utilize players like that if we did have any. i would say camponaro comes close but he has to stay healthy. maybe we have other guys but our coaches maybe are afraid to try things with them. i think chris moore could do damage on a wr screen or quick slant under 8 yards like brady runs with edelman or amendola.

Our offense has been so vanilla for so long that it's almost like why bother. Development has been tough for a lot of our players, especially on the offensive side of the ball. Flacco and the coaching staff just don't have the ability to out scheme other teams, so it's almost better if we keep it basic and hope we have the players for the job. 

Time to beef up the line and get a nice shift WR to work the middle like an Isiah Ford 

[RavensDieHard21]

7 hours ago, BigUgly said:

We've not drafted CBs with high pick in the last decade, save for Jimmy Smith, and despite multiple efforts to find a value pick in later rounds, only Webb and Young come to mind as successes. We have been slightly better with veteran FAs - guys like Graham, Williams, and Stewart have done well enough here to price themselves out of our willingness to pay to retain them.

Perhaps the reason we haven't taken the secondary more seriously is that we had stability with Ed for so long, and we've usually managed to generate a pass rush. Weddle is finally a stabilizing force at the back end, but our pass rush has really fallen off.

PFF had our pass rush ranked 30th. Either we draft young guys to rush it we can give our guys up front more time with better coverage. 

With the talent and depth of W secondary players in the draft, we really could give ourselves a formidable secondary.

 

[AshtrayAvenger]

I don't think Flacco is any worse than before the 2012, his problem is we've never replaced Rice. Flacco's not been the same since Rice's injury and subsequent firing.

 

Although CB is probably our most pressing need, I wouldn't complain if we went RB 1st round. If we do tho, the FO has to be 100% that it's not gonna be a bust with the likeliness that there will b a difference making CB on the board when we pick.

 

[Vitalvicious]

There's so many voids on this team, we NEED viable and reliable CB's, Pass Rushers, O Linemen, a WR that's dependable, heck the only position I think we have any depth at is RB. Something has to give asap.

[bigcatfrank1]

  10 hours ago, TheRavengers said:

Regarding TEs, if anyone of them should go it's Ben Watson at least. Pitta's finally made a good recovery and has good chemistry with Joe, Boyle and Gillmore are good catches when healthy and not suspended. Waller's made improvements. Maxx Williams, eh I'd keep him one more year to see if he evolves more.

I believe Maxx set rookie records for Raven TE's. Hes going to be a good one. We dont need Watson. Pitta is too productive to let go. With Wallace we need to renegotiate his contract and keep him for 3 or 4 years.

Wallace might be willing to sign for 3 years, that is an interesting thought. I think the Ravens are going to try and keep him.

Pitta made comments last year before he came back that if he could play he may be willing to negotiate his final years contract, he just wanted to play football. So

I think Watson is pretty well a goner, We should only keep 3 TE this year though. last year 4 was too many, same with RB. We might get someone in a trade for Boyle or Gilmore and Allen -
Maxx sure, but is he in shape to play? guess we will find out

[bigcatfrank1]

opine;
Joe Flacco will be fine- I would be more worried about "piggy Ben" or Dalton

The Ravens should at least look for a 1000yd RB. West just doesn't look like he can handle the #1. Dixon might need another year to develop, get a little bigger and grow into a #1 gamebreaker. There are options, FA, trade, Draft but open up the competition and lets take a chance to find a back that can get a first down on back to back runs 70% ratiio and average over 5ypc
"We need to run the ball !" we are the Ravens not the Falcons

Try to keep Wallace he might re-sign and negotiate, His 1000 yds are valuable to the Ravens at this point considering other position needs. If another chance 1000yd WR costs us 5.5mil and Wallace cap hit is 3mil why give him up? When he has already proved he can do it as a Raven.

Keep Pitta, Waller and Maxx Williams or Boyle ( trade one of them)

Go get a Shutdown Corner from another team! ASAP , use Boyle, Aiken, Allen, Zutta, even Doom and money if you have to. but get one. Also draft 2 as high as possible. add them to Tavon Young and Jimmy Smith.

Do not focus on LB. in fact trade Dumervil for a CB. add more if you have to.
Use the young LB's on the team they are a good corp. add in the Draft if possible.

Focus on keeping Williams and Wagner. These 2 guys can make the Team a different team.

Keep Juice, Webb, Suggs, Guy, Hurst, Jenson, Campinaro

Add 2 WR's, #2 3-10yr and Draft

Add a Guard, Draft

Add a Safety, if possible

[Halshayeji]

14 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Just FYI, Tom made $28.7M playing football for the Patriots this year.

Cap hit and what he actually gets paid are two different things.

Let's spice things up a bit more. last year he collected 10 mil in paychecks and 9 mil the year before. And next year he's only gonna get paid 1 million in salary.

 

come on RMC, don't just throw it out there because many out here don't understand that those 28 mil are signing bonuses for the next 3 years. If that's how people compare contracts them Flacco made 48 million playing football for the Ravens this year lol.

 

The most important thing that people need to understand is that Brady makes more endorcement money than any other QB in history and he's married to the highest paid model in history. Comparing Brady's contract to anyone is just insane and senseless. That we should all agree on. 

[sizzlingdoom]

What will the Ravens do with Mike Wallace? Really? Given that he's the only legitimate NFL receiver we have on the team I hope they are smart enough to keep him.

Seriously though. lol

[sizzlingdoom]

1. What will (will, not should) they to do to stop Joe's regression?
- RUN the ball more. grab an o lineman or two. Two things we SHOULD do also are grab a legit #1 wr, and hire Kyle Shanahan.

2. Are they seriously considering a rb in the first round?
-better not be

3. What will they do with Wallace?
- keep him so we at least have 1 legit wr

4&5. Is there room for Pitta and Watson?
-No

6. Will we finally find a good compliment to Jimmy?
- If we pick one at 16, yes. If we don't or pick up a scrub in FA, no.

7. What we will we do to improve the pass rush?
- Hopefully get a healthy Sizzle for his final year in the NFL -we'll be losing our last legend :(
- not rely on Doom
- Hopefully get a healthy Kufasi
- probably draft 1 or 2 pass rushers in rounds 2-6
- and sign Lorenzo Alexander. The guy is a stud. I know last year was his only year really in terms of stats, but the guy is unique. I remember watching him in Washington for years always thinking he was jumping off the screen. He's 300lbs and moves like an outside lb. Washington's never really had a good D in the last decade so I doubt they used him right. I know he's older and fans are sick of us bringing in older players, but if we're trying to compete, I think he'd be a great fit. Even if he's not an every down player, he could be that awesome and versatile rusher for us that Mcphee was. He can attack from anywhere.

[The Greek]

i like wallace but not for $8 mil. 

[sizzlingdoom]

i like wallace but not for $8 mil. 

He's our only wr. Could you really find a better replacement for the 5 mil or so we would save by cutting him?

[BigUgly]

  3 hours ago, The Greek said:

i like wallace but not for $8 mil. 

He's our only wr. Could you really find a better replacement for the 5 mil or so we would save by cutting him?

If you'll recall, we released Boldin the year after the super bowl (while he was on a charity trip to Africa) because we deemed his $6M cap hit too pricey.

The Ravens can't afford to be a penny wise and a pound foolish with WR talent.

[rmcjacket23]

7 hours ago, Halshayeji said:

Let's spice things up a bit more. last year he collected 10 mil in paychecks and 9 mil the year before. And next year he's only gonna get paid 1 million in salary.

 

come on RMC, don't just throw it out there because many out here don't understand that those 28 mil are signing bonuses for the next 3 years. If that's how people compare contracts them Flacco made 48 million playing football for the Ravens this year lol.

 

The most important thing that people need to understand is that Brady makes more endorcement money than any other QB in history and he's married to the highest paid model in history. Comparing Brady's contract to anyone is just insane and senseless. That we should all agree on. 

No actually, that $28M in signing bonuses isn't for the next three years. Its for the length of the contract from the PATRIOTS perspective, but Tom actually got paid that money at signing. That's why they call it a SIGNING BONUS, because its paid at signing. You don't pay a Signing Bonus three times because there's nothing to sign.

When I said Tom was paid that much this year, its because Tom was paid that much this year. That's not up for debate. That's a fact. Its indisputable.

Just like when I said Joe Flacco made $29M to play football last year, its because Joe Flacco made $29M to play football last year. It was initially thought to be $44M, but he deferred $15M of his $40M signing bonus to next season, so next season, he will make $21M.

For the billionth time, the amount of salary cap impact the team absorbs is NOT the same as the amount of actual cash they pay the player on a yearly basis. They are two completely different things in most cases.

Edited January 28 by rmcjacket23

[rmcjacket23]

1 hour ago, BigUgly said:

If you'll recall, we released Boldin the year after the super bowl (while he was on a charity trip to Africa) because we deemed his $6M cap hit too pricey.

The Ravens can't afford to be a penny wise and a pound foolish with WR talent.

We also had Torrey Smith on the roster cheaply (along with Pitta) and he was among many cap purges we made that offseason, which is fairly common for a SB champ with a big contract going to a QB.

That's just how it works.

[rmcjacket23]

1. What will (will, not should) they to do to stop Joe's regression?
- RUN the ball more. grab an o lineman or two. Two things we SHOULD do also are grab a legit #1 wr, and hire Kyle Shanahan.

2. Are they seriously considering a rb in the first round?
-better not be

3. What will they do with Wallace?
- keep him so we at least have 1 legit wr

4&5. Is there room for Pitta and Watson?
-No

6. Will we finally find a good compliment to Jimmy?
- If we pick one at 16, yes. If we don't or pick up a scrub in FA, no.

7. What we will we do to improve the pass rush?
- Hopefully get a healthy Sizzle for his final year in the NFL -we'll be losing our last legend :(
- not rely on Doom
- Hopefully get a healthy Kufasi
- probably draft 1 or 2 pass rushers in rounds 2-6
- and sign Lorenzo Alexander. The guy is a stud. I know last year was his only year really in terms of stats, but the guy is unique. I remember watching him in Washington for years always thinking he was jumping off the screen. He's 300lbs and moves like an outside lb. Washington's never really had a good D in the last decade so I doubt they used him right. I know he's older and fans are sick of us bringing in older players, but if we're trying to compete, I think he'd be a great fit. Even if he's not an every down player, he could be that awesome and versatile rusher for us that Mcphee was. He can attack from anywhere.

Just FYI, Shanahan is going to be the HC for the 49ers, so no idea why you would be referencing him as somebody we would hire.

And even if he weren't going to be a HC, there's no chance in the world that the Falcons would allow him to interview for a lateral position, nor would he want to. Obviously the Falcons would want him back, and he's got a ton of talent to work with there and not much to work with here.

[BigUgly]

44 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

We also had Torrey Smith on the roster cheaply (along with Pitta) and he was among many cap purges we made that offseason, which is fairly common for a SB champ with a big contract going to a QB.

That's just how it works.

To a point.  You still have to look at the cost of production.  In the case of Boldin, his production was proven and, at that cost point, not easily replaced for the same money.  Had he been on the team in 2013, I believe we would've made the playoffs.  Got too cheap at the wrong position at the wrong time.

I understand letting Torrey go.  He had a narrow skill set, and was barely a #2 but got #1 money from SF.  We thought we had a replacement in Perriman, but he has yet to prove as productive.

[Halshayeji]

3 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

No actually, that $28M in signing bonuses isn't for the next three years. Its for the length of the contract from the PATRIOTS perspective, but Tom actually got paid that money at signing. That's why they call it a SIGNING BONUS, because its paid at signing. You don't pay a Signing Bonus three times because there's nothing to sign.

When I said Tom was paid that much this year, its because Tom was paid that much this year. That's not up for debate. That's a fact. Its indisputable.

Just like when I said Joe Flacco made $29M to play football last year, its because Joe Flacco made $29M to play football last year. It was initially thought to be $44M, but he deferred $15M of his $40M signing bonus to next season, so next season, he will make $21M.

For the billionth time, the amount of salary cap impact the team absorbs is NOT the same as the amount of actual cash they pay the player on a yearly basis. They are two completely different things in most cases.

And for the billionth time you can't just pick the one year Brady gets a signing bonus and say that's how much he played for. I know what you mean but you implied something completely different the way you said it.

[rmcjacket23]

2 hours ago, BigUgly said:

To a point.  You still have to look at the cost of production.  In the case of Boldin, his production was proven and, at that cost point, not easily replaced for the same money.  Had he been on the team in 2013, I believe we would've made the playoffs.  Got too cheap at the wrong position at the wrong time.

I understand letting Torrey go.  He had a narrow skill set, and was barely a #2 but got #1 money from SF.  We thought we had a replacement in Perriman, but he has yet to prove as productive.

Well, keep in mind also that Boldin's regular season production was never spectacular with the Ravens, so it was actually quite hard to justify a $6M price tag on him for what he was giving us in the regular season. He was producing as a #2 WR at that point.

I don't think anybody really expected us to return to the playoffs in 2013, and its tough to tell what would have happened. We were able to get Dumervil that year, and maybe that doesn't happen if Boldin is on the roster.

No possible way of knowing.

[rmcjacket23]

6 minutes ago, Halshayeji said:

And for the billionth time you can't just pick the one year Brady gets a signing bonus and say that's how much he played for. I know what you mean but you implied something completely different the way you said it.

He didn't get a signing bonus one time. He's gotten numerous signing bonuses, as I highlighted in my post. The vast majority of his career compensation is in the form of bonuses. He had a $5M bonus in 2015, $17M in bonuses in 2014, and $12M in bonuses in 2013.

The point being that fans have virtually no clue what they're talking about most of the time when it comes to these contracts, and they reference cap hits as if they are how much the player actually gets paid. Thus, when fans look at Brady's $13M cap hit for 2016, they ignorantly say "o look, he takes less for the team", despite the fact that he actually got paid $28M in 2016, which nobody could possibly argue is "taking less". That's why fans should be more careful throwing out claims that they don't know enough about.

What's even more hilarious and laughable is when fans suggest that Flacco should take less like Brady, when they don't even understand the huge financial gap in career earnings between the two. Maybe when Joe is 40 and has made close to $200M, maybe then he will decide to play for $15-20M a year like Brady does. But given that Brady's also made about $80M more than Joe throughout his career, its seems kind of illogical to expect this from a 32 year old QB. Very few people realize that when Brady was Joe's age, Brady was perennially paid as a top 5 QB, so he wasn't taking any discounts for anybody. He was making $15-16M a year back when that's how much the best QBs were being paid.

[TheConquerorWorm]

  4 hours ago, BigUgly said:

To a point.  You still have to look at the cost of production.  In the case of Boldin, his production was proven and, at that cost point, not easily replaced for the same money.  Had he been on the team in 2013, I believe we would've made the playoffs.  Got too cheap at the wrong position at the wrong time.

I understand letting Torrey go.  He had a narrow skill set, and was barely a #2 but got #1 money from SF.  We thought we had a replacement in Perriman, but he has yet to prove as productive.

Well, keep in mind also that Boldin's regular season production was never spectacular with the Ravens, so it was actually quite hard to justify a $6M price tag on him for what he was giving us in the regular season. He was producing as a #2 WR at that point.

I don't think anybody really expected us to return to the playoffs in 2013, and its tough to tell what would have happened. We were able to get Dumervil that year, and maybe that doesn't happen if Boldin is on the roster.

No possible way of knowing.

Exactly. And at the time, Pitta & Torrey were dominating the catches with Ray Rice in the mix as well. Boldin was the 4th option on offense. We also had a ton of Free agents - Flacco, Reed, McKinney, Leach, Ellerbe, Kruger, Cary Williams, Ihedibo that the Ravens wanted to resign. And the following year - Pitta, Graham, Art Jones, Monroe, Oher, etc. Now, in hindsight, it doesn't look like the right decision, however, no one could have seen Pitta's injury and the Ray Rice fiasco.

Also, the money from Boldin allowed us to sign Dumervil, Daryl Smith & Chris Canty. I'll take Dumervil's 17 sack season in 2014 (that help lead us into the play-offs) over any of Boldin's last few seasons.

[TheConquerorWorm]

  1 hour ago, Halshayeji said:

And for the billionth time you can't just pick the one year Brady gets a signing bonus and say that's how much he played for. I know what you mean but you implied something completely different the way you said it.

He didn't get a signing bonus one time. He's gotten numerous signing bonuses, as I highlighted in my post. The vast majority of his career compensation is in the form of bonuses. He had a $5M bonus in 2015, $17M in bonuses in 2014, and $12M in bonuses in 2013.

The point being that fans have virtually no clue what they're talking about most of the time when it comes to these contracts, and they reference cap hits as if they are how much the player actually gets paid. Thus, when fans look at Brady's $13M cap hit for 2016, they ignorantly say "o look, he takes less for the team", despite the fact that he actually got paid $28M in 2016, which nobody could possibly argue is "taking less". That's why fans should be more careful throwing out claims that they don't know enough about.

What's even more hilarious and laughable is when fans suggest that Flacco should take less like Brady, when they don't even understand the huge financial gap in career earnings between the two. Maybe when Joe is 40 and has made close to $200M, maybe then he will decide to play for $15-20M a year like Brady does. But given that Brady's also made about $80M more than Joe throughout his career, its seems kind of illogical to expect this from a 32 year old QB. Very few people realize that when Brady was Joe's age, Brady was perennially paid as a top 5 QB, so he wasn't taking any discounts for anybody. He was making $15-16M a year back when that's how much the best QBs were being paid.

And it's easy for the Pats to ask a guy to take lesser salary when they're paying his company (TB12 Sports Therapy Center) significant $$ and giving them a storefront at Gillette Stadium.