[News] Eric DeCosta: Ravens Must Try To Retain Brandon Williams

[BR News]

The Ravens assistant general manager said the pending free-agent nose tackle is a 'really important part of the puzzle' in Baltimore's defense, and fits in with the tradition of Ravens interior defensive linemen.

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[ravens4life86]

Good luck. Im hopeful but reality says no.
More likely draft a 4th or 5th round NT/DT and add to Pierce,Davis,Hopefully Henry shows something with more time

[b93333]

Would be really great to see him stay... too bad we wasted that cap space on a 36 yoa TE who has had exactly one good season in his career, and a washed up return specialist who made bad decisions and couldn't hang on to the ball. Let's hope we have learned something from our mistakes.

[BiggMack91]

he's not worth the money even if we had it 6 mil a year is the most I would give him if he wants more good bye 96 tackles, 4.5 sacks and three forced fumbles in 4 years is not that impressive Ngata in his first 4 years had 124 solo tackles 6.5 sacks 2 forced fumbles 3 interceptions so again I don't think he's worth more than 6 mil a year

[nj_ravens]

Would be really great to see him stay... too bad we wasted that cap space on a 36 yoa TE who has had exactly one good season in his career, and a washed up return specialist who made bad decisions and couldn't hang on to the ball. Let's hope we have learned something from our mistakes.

The money given to Hester has very little effect on our cap space. 1.1 dead money THIS year. None next year. That money would have gone to another returner if not Devin, so it wouldn't even have been carried over. So we didn't waste any cap.

Watson only has 1mil dead cap next year.

Neither of those players have anything to do with cap money deeded for Williams.

[b93333]

18 minutes ago, nj_ravens said:

The money given to Hester has very little effect on our cap space. 1.1 dead money THIS year. None next year. That money would have gone to another returner if not Devin, so it wouldn't even have been carried over. So we didn't waste any cap.

Watson only has 1mil dead cap next year.

Neither of those players have anything to do with cap money deeded for Williams.

Had we not wasted that money we could have carried over that cap amount to this year to help us sign Williams.  Wasted cap space in both cases.

[ArsenalRaven666]

I hope Williams resigns with us but fear someone will vastly overpay to get him. I would be fine with a deal in line with Harrisons as long as it wasnt backloaded

[Mahow]

Williams is my favourite player right now so I hope we keep him. Can't see it though.

[RavensDieHard21]

My ideal contract offer would be 5 yr, $38 million with incentives that could get it toward $44 million. 

[berad]

My ideal contract offer would be 5 yr, $38 million with incentives that could get it toward $44 million. 

What kind of incentives would you put in for a guy who does the majority of the dirty work? Snaps, games? He gets some production but the things he does frees up other players, lets them make plays.

[Chuckx999]

Ravens need money, CUT the salary of "3 and OUT Flacco".

[stixfix69]

We all know the key to a 3-4 is the NT, gotta get him signed.....Just give him a big signing bonus, and a average salary, as we all know today's players are about the guaranteed money which is in the form of a signing bonus spread out through the contract....we do have aging players who will be gone in a few years , so should make it doable IMO....

[Azzi22]

cant afford to let this guy go... people are saying next man up ? whos that..pierce? carl davis?henry? the 80-20 rule doesn't apply to these players.. NONE OF THEM COME CLOSE to what BWILL does for us. no wonder mosley/orr both 100+tackles.. they can thank Brandon for that

[RailBird]

As much as I would like to see Williams back with us next year, you know there's gonna be a team with too much money who offers him a contract the Ravens simply can't match. Unless Williams values a great organization over a couple more millions, there's no way the Ravens can keep him.

[The Greek]

he is a big piece of the puzzle on defense but there are plenty of teams with lots of cap space. unfortunately we cannot break the bank for him.

[rmcjacket23]

he's not worth the money even if we had it 6 mil a year is the most I would give him if he wants more good bye 96 tackles, 4.5 sacks and three forced fumbles in 4 years is not that impressive Ngata in his first 4 years had 124 solo tackles 6.5 sacks 2 forced fumbles 3 interceptions so again I don't think he's worth more than 6 mil a year

Whats the basis for the $6M number?

Also, I'd point out that Ngata's deal (which was signed in 2011 in a small salary cap era) was for 5 years, $61M, so an average of about $12M a year.

So if you use just the stats that you referenced (which aren't really that relevant, especially when you consider that Ngata and Brandon didn't play the same position in their first four years), then Brandon is about 80% as effective of a player as Ngata.

So if Ngata was worth $12M 5-6 years ago, and Brandon is 80% of the player he is now, then how do you justify paying him $6M, which is 50% less.

I assume now that the $6M was just a "thumb in the air" calculation conjured out of thin air?

[ellicottraven]

He is a very important piece of our D-line for sure, but in his case I would subscribe to the 'right player, right price' theory. As much as I would like to sign him, my fear is he'll command an inflated price and he may not be worth that. If we can get him to sign a long term deal at a price commensurate with his production and value, we should definitely sign him. Otherwise, we'll have no choice but to see him sign for big money elsewhere. I don't think Williams is a generational type player like Haloti, Suggs, Reed and Lewis were, where no matter what price the team has to suck it up and retain. He is an upper echelon player that deserves top dollar within the confines of affordability and cap space.

[ellicottraven]

53 minutes ago, Chuckx999 said:

Ravens need money, CUT the salary of "3 and OUT Flacco".

Call Joe Linta first. He won't allow Joe to take a cent off his contract because Joe Flacco is his only client!

Edited January 26 by ellicottraven

[ellicottraven]

  2 hours ago, b93333 said:

Would be really great to see him stay... too bad we wasted that cap space on a 36 yoa TE who has had exactly one good season in his career, and a washed up return specialist who made bad decisions and couldn't hang on to the ball. Let's hope we have learned something from our mistakes.

The money given to Hester has very little effect on our cap space. 1.1 dead money THIS year. None next year. That money would have gone to another returner if not Devin, so it wouldn't even have been carried over. So we didn't waste any cap.

Watson only has 1mil dead cap next year.

Neither of those players have anything to do with cap money deeded for Williams.

In fact I would try to keep Watson and cut Pitta. Have Williams be the 2nd receiving TE and we'll not only save money by cutting Pitta, but also teach Flacco to see his entire suite of available receiving resources and not lock in on one.

[Ravenous_Ravens]

If B Williams is not locked in on earning top dollar, with the added caveat of playing elsewhere, the Ravens will have a suitable chance of re-signing him. He is, like Eric said, an A player and a big piece of the puzzle.

As good as he is though, it has to be at a reasonable, not necessarily cheap, price, now and moving forward. If not you handicap the roster by re-signing at too high a price. Basically his contract would need to be affordable and not prevent building the rest of the roster over the length of said contract.

Maybe they can work it out so there are lots of reasonable incentives as bonuses, with less upfront guarantees. Let him earn a fair guaranteed amount, just for showing up and then keep him motivated through the incentives as bonuses.

I just think back to Haloti's contract, which he certainly earned. However, the Ravens also paid him more than his play suggested he was worth towards the tail end. A highly incentivized contract might be a better way to ensure not overpaying and provide consistent motivation all the same. Only trade off I can think of is perhaps paying a bit more in the early years of the contract, which could very well be trimmed off the tail end from aging. Just my 2 cents.

[rmcjacket23]

  3 hours ago, nj_ravens said:

  3 hours ago, b93333 said:

Would be really great to see him stay... too bad we wasted that cap space on a 36 yoa TE who has had exactly one good season in his career, and a washed up return specialist who made bad decisions and couldn't hang on to the ball. Let's hope we have learned something from our mistakes.

The money given to Hester has very little effect on our cap space. 1.1 dead money THIS year. None next year. That money would have gone to another returner if not Devin, so it wouldn't even have been carried over. So we didn't waste any cap.

Watson only has 1mil dead cap next year.

Neither of those players have anything to do with cap money deeded for Williams.

In fact I would try to keep Watson and cut Pitta. Have Williams be the 2nd receiving TE and we'll not only save money by cutting Pitta, but also teach Flacco to see his entire suite of available receiving resources and not lock in on one.

Well given that the cost of cutting Pitta is effectively the same as the cost of cutting Watson, you would just be better off keeping the guy you think is the better player and who will be more valuable.

While Pitta has his own history of injuries certainly, it would seem keeping the 31 year old (who your QB obviously loves and trusts) coming off a healthy, pretty successful season would be smarter than keeping the 36 year old TE who never played a snap for you and is coming off a devastating injury.

Especially when the price is essentially the same from a cap perspective.

[rmcjacket23]

If B Williams is not locked in on earning top dollar, with the added caveat of playing elsewhere, the Ravens will have a suitable chance of re-signing him. He is, like Eric said, an A player and a big piece of the puzzle.

As good as he is though, it has to be at a reasonable, not necessarily cheap, price, now and moving forward. If not you handicap the roster by re-signing at too high a price. Basically his contract would need to be affordable and not prevent building the rest of the roster over the length of said contract.

Maybe they can work it out so there are lots of reasonable incentives as bonuses, with less upfront guarantees. Let him earn a fair guaranteed amount, just for showing up and then keep him motivated through the incentives as bonuses.

I just think back to Haloti's contract, which he certainly earned. However, the Ravens also paid him more than his play suggested he was worth towards the tail end. A highly incentivized contract might be a better way to ensure not overpaying and provide consistent motivation all the same. Only trade off I can think of is perhaps paying a bit more in the early years of the contract, which could very well be trimmed off the tail end from aging. Just my 2 cents.

1. Incentive based contracts typically only work on players when the team actually have leverage. This is typically for players like Pitta, who are coming off devastating injuries, or aging veterans who can't get quality guaranteed contracts in FA.

Prime players like Williams don't have to take incentive-laden contracts, because they have plenty of suitors that will offer a deal with better guarantees and less incentives.

If I were him, I'd say the same thing everybody else at his age and production says, "I played great for you while making peanuts the last 4 years. You've got 4 years off compensation that you have to make up for, and if that means you "overpay" me, so be it". And it works for most players like him.

2. The way most contracts are structured, the players almost always get a lot of the money up front. The contracts are typically structured so that the player gets more up front, and the team takes more of the hit on the back end.

Ngata's contract was no different. He signed a 5 year, $61M deal back in 2011. He made $40M of that in the first two years.

That's the things fan get confused. The cap hit that the Ravens take on isn't what the player is actually making. A lot of the bonuses are paid up front and in one lump sum, and they are spread out over the contract for cap impact.

So when Ngata had like a $16M cap hit in his final year, he wasn't making anything close to that. In fact, he was making about half of that, which was $8.5M

[jsarrocohome@yahoo.com]

Why he is NOT as good as some people seam to think overpay this guy and set the team back 4 or 5 years

[balfan23]

36 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Well given that the cost of cutting Pitta is effectively the same as the cost of cutting Watson, you would just be better off keeping the guy you think is the better player and who will be more valuable.

While Pitta has his own history of injuries certainly, it would seem keeping the 31 year old (who your QB obviously loves and trusts) coming off a healthy, pretty successful season would be smarter than keeping the 36 year old TE who never played a snap for you and is coming off a devastating injury.

Especially when the price is essentially the same from a cap perspective.
 

Yeah - it seems to me that Watson is a very likely cut candidate and definitely a more likely candidate than Pitta. Honestly, Pitta should under consideration for a cut as well given the investments we've made in drafting TEs over the last couple years. Unfortunately, none of them have developed into players we can trust. 

[hn68wb4]

Would like to have him back, but Wagner has to be priority #1. Continuity along the line is of the utmost importance. Sure our run D will take a hit without BWill, even if Pierce continues to impress, but we can't seriously let our second most consistent olineman walk and expect to have improved line play. We've got a replacement in house for BWill, not Wagner, we'd have to gamble on his replacement. It just simply doesn't make any sense to prioritize Williams over Wagner.

[thegooddoc456]

I would NOT empty the bank on Brandon Williams.

[purpledown]

Sounds good but Dacosta and the Ravens kbnow that this guy is as good as gone. Ravens never win bidding wars. They must be banking on Pierce. Then what happens when he gets good? He will be gone too. Again a big thank you to Joe Flacco.

[Tower of Power]

Funny Courtney Upshaw is not mentioned among the players we lost. And he's not in the silly probowl, I guess he's preparing for another kind of game, eh?

[bigcatfrank1]

Nose tackles command big money in the NFL, its one of the "big" money positions. So Brandon and his Agent know it. The real issue is what team will offer him the money and will they be a contender. Because if he takes 10mil with a below .500 team and misses the playoffs it could hurt him rather than staying with the Ravens for 8 mil and playing in 2 playoff games and getting to the Super-Bowl that would be lights out above a 4 year/40mil.

Wagner could be more important, his contract could be more incentive built but he must see the potential in this team making a run at the League Championship. 5.5-6.5 with bonus for snaps played, protection, and production. Post Season and progressive cap will probably be in play.

The best thing the Ravens could do is go ahead and pick up a CB, WR and RB now and release FA or dead wood such as Aiken, Wright, Arrignton, Allen, West, Elam, Lews-Harris, Powers, and/or K Lewis ! If they have to let others go to do it, well then get moving.

Show Brandon Williams and Rick Wagner that they mean business! keys to keeping both of them may mean releasing Zutta, Watson, and Doom. That is about 13.5 Mil in cap space. I say Do it, Ill take WIlliams and Wagner for Zutta, Watson and Doom at this point in their careers all day long!

[chunkywill25]

rather keep wagner but both seem like a dream.