[News] Late For Work 1/26: Joe Flacco Gets Major Love In Super Bowl MVP Rankings

[ByTheBay]

13 minutes ago, jhulax35 said:

Guess you don't think that's a little wrong with all the short passes completed to the RB

I can only say to you that statistics are all relative. 

20 minutes ago, OriolesMagicPlease said:

Of course they do. But you can't just discount ours because of that. Any stats to show who has the most important drops?

[Minionhunter]

  19 minutes ago, krnraven said:

Get Joe a QB coach or face another losing season due to his sloppy mechanics. If Joe's throwing motion is wrong will they say something? I doubt it.

Yes bring Jim Zorn back

If they didn't get Rick to be OC, I think this would be the best move they could make. But that personality conflict thing again, not what is best for Joe [get Zorn], but they won't get him again to limit personality conflict with other coaches.

[Azzi22]

  1 hour ago, Azzi22 said:

all you flacco bashers.... have absolutely no clue what youre talking about... I can easily say 15-20 teams WISH AND PRAYED TO GOD they can have someone Flacco under center...Just take a look at other ''better'' qbs... what have they done with the talent they have surrounding them? Dalton/aj..brees and whoever..Rodgers/jordy..luck and ty..Stafford/megatron..big ben Antonio... list goes on and on... CALM YOURSELVES DOWN.. guy has had 5 oc's in 5 years.. NO RB.. horrible WR(no one near a elite one) and u want him to do good?

It's great when an argument includes how stupid everyone that doesn't agree with you is 😀

But I will throw you a bone to make your case. Please go ahead and name 15-20 teams that would trade their starting QB for the 23rd best QB in Flacco. I can see about 5 or 6. Keep in mind that they will be taking him with his 3rd highest salary in the league. A number people keep saying will be dwarfed every year by new higher contracts but I'm not seeing it actually happen. 

 

5-6? hahahah what hahaha... lets start..AFCE: bills...jets...dolphins(if u don't think they would take flacco over tannehil ur dumb)..AFCN: browns....AFCS: Houston/titans/jags.. (DONT TELL ME MARIOTTA)...AFCW: Denver....NFCE: Eagles/skins....NFCN:Vikings/bears......NFCS:Bucs....NFCW:Cards/rams/49ers....if you don't think ANYYYY of these teams would rather have flacco under center than the current one they have then u got issues...

[gellinho]

Yeah Joe was ELITE in 2012, we all know that. Can we please stop talking about the past? We are Ravens Fans, leave the talking about the past thing to the Steelers and Cowboys Fans. 

[OriolesMagicPlease]

8 minutes ago, gellinho said:

Yeah Joe was ELITE in 2012, we all know that. Can we please stop talking about the past? We are Ravens Fans, leave the talking about the past thing to the Steelers and Cowboys Fans. 

The article is discussing the best Super Bowl performances by quarterbacks. So we are supposed to just ignore what Joe did because it was the past? Ridiculous.

[ByTheBay]

7 minutes ago, Azzi22 said:

5-6? hahahah what hahaha... lets start..AFCE: bills...jets...dolphins(if u don't think they would take flacco over tannehil ur dumb)..AFCN: browns....AFCS: Houston/titans/jags.. (DONT TELL ME MARIOTTA)...AFCW: Denver....NFCE: Eagles/skins....NFCN:Vikings/bears......NFCS:Bucs....NFCW:Cards/rams/49ers....if you don't think ANYYYY of these teams would rather have flacco under center than the current one they have then u got issues...

Again calling people dumb makes you sound uneducated. But I will take the bait. 

First, no way in the world would LA or Philly trade their new starting rookie QB for Flacco. Too much potential there. Same with Denver. 

It could be debated whether or not Joe is an upgrade over Mariota, Winston, Cousins, Palmer or Bradford. 

So that leaves the Jets, Dolphins, Bills, browns, Bears and 49ers. 6 teams that would for sure "wish and pray to god" as you said for Joe Flacco. 

Look, I know we are all passionate about out Ravens but there is a lot of valid criticism for Flacco and saying that almost 2/3 of the teams in this league would pray to have him is a little bit homer. I'd say a lot homer. Which you have every right to be as a fan.  

[gellinho]

27 minutes ago, OriolesMagicPlease said:

The article is discussing the best Super Bowl performances by quarterbacks. So we are supposed to just ignore what Joe did because it was the past? Ridiculous.

I just think Joe got enough praise for that.

[CQ1]

Great for Joe and THE Superbowl which were 4 years ago, and a lot of mediocrity at best thrown in, to date.

[pangefous52]

I think everyone is a little off base where Joe Flacco is concerned. The problem is with the term "elite". We, as Ravens fans, need to drop the term completely from our vocabulary. He's not elite. Neither are the QB's for most NFL teams. What we need to consider; where Joe ranks in terms of current QB's in the league, compare his career path, and weigh the pros and cons.
-Joe Flacco is the only QB in the AFC to start (and win) in a Superbowl in the
last 14 years that wasn't either Tom Brady, Big Ben or Peyton Manning. Considering Peyton did it with 2 teams, that leaves 11 AFC teams that haven't hoisted the Lombardi trophy in that span. Oddly enough, the last AFC team to do it prior to Brady, Ben and Manning was...the Ravens...in 2001. Get this; you have to go back to 1984 to find an AFC team that won the Superbowl that wasn't the Patriots, Steelers, Broncos, Colts or Ravens. 32 freaking years since the LA Raiders won!!! Joe Flacco has a proven record in the playoffs. He also managed a crucial drive this year, in Pittsburgh, that realistically should have won the game (and possibly division) if the defense had not Crap the bed.
-With Peyton Manning retired, Big Ben considering retirement (and honestly, Flacco is kind of owning Big Ben recently), that leaves Tom Brady as the QB to beat in the AFC. And Joe has beaten Brady twice in the playoffs IN Foxboro. We have owned the Steelers recently (6 of 9 since 2013 with a playoff win in there). With the rag-tag crew of receivers we had this year, he beat Ben once, was within a score of Brady, and lost to Ben by an outstretched arm. To me, you can't put a price tag on composure, which Flacco has against these guys. If Tom Brady were to win this year, and then retire along with Big Ben, who would be the Ravens main competition in the AFC?
-Ravens fans are used to making the playoffs, and we've gotten spoiled. How consistent is Dalton in the Playoffs? The Texans? The Chiefs? Not a whole lot of winning in that group. Flacco has had an inconsistent support system around him, and the carousel of OC's has got to stop for him to develop into the passer he has the potential to be. I think what a lot of fans fail to realize, is that Joe has put our team in the position to win a lot of games, and our defense has let us down. Granted, more consistent play from Joe could potentially negate our less-than-stellar secondary, but if your QB scores a go-ahead TD with less than a couple minutes to play...and you can't stop their team from scoring...that's hardly the QB's fault.

You can argue all you want that Joe makes too much money, that he's not consistent enough, etc. But when it comes down to brass tacks, there's only a handful of consistent QB's in the league, and an even smaller class of QB's that are consistent when it matters...in the playoffs. Given the option, there's only 4 or 5 QB's in the league I'd consider over Flacco. Brady, Rodgers, Brees and (possibly) Derek Carr or Matt Ryan. Other than that, every team is struggling with inconsistency at QB...and have no hardware to show for it. Andrew Luck? Andy Dalton? Ryan Tannehill? Tyrod Taylor? Come on guys, our position is a lot more solid than 80 to 90% of the league. We are a couple key guys away from being back on top while it looks like the Bengals unraveled this year, and it looks like the Steelers are headed that way.

Take a deep breath my friends. The AFC north is ripe for the taking, and we are poised to be that team. Peace.

[rmcjacket23]

1 hour ago, ByTheBay said:

It's great when an argument includes how stupid everyone that doesn't agree with you is 😀

But I will throw you a bone to make your case. Please go ahead and name 15-20 teams that would trade their starting QB for the 23rd best QB in Flacco. I can see about 5 or 6. Keep in mind that they will be taking him with his 3rd highest salary in the league. A number people keep saying will be dwarfed every year by new higher contracts but I'm not seeing it actually happen. 

 

Well, its not actually true that they'd be trading for the 3rd highest salary in the league either. Keep in mind that much of Joe's compensation is in the form of bonuses, which is something that doesn't transfer over to another team on a trade. The only thing another team gets is the base salary in a trade and any future roster/option bonuses (and I'm not 100% sure they transfer either).

So, for example, IF (which this obviously isn't happening) they traded Joe this offseason, his base salaries for the next three years are all under $20M ($6M in 2017, $12M in 2018, $18.5M in 2019). Joe did defer a portion of his signing bonus from this past season to 2017, but my understanding is that the Ravens would be on the hook for that, not another team.

So any team trading for him would only have to pay him $36.5M over the next three years (and average of roughly $12M a season, which is an extreme bargain), and $81M over the next five years, which is still an average of $16.2M a year. At an AAV of $16.2M over five years, he would be the 23rd highest paid QB in the league currently, sandwiched between Alex Smith and Andy Dalton. 

AND keep in mind that none of those salaries is currently guaranteed, so any team that traded for him and didn't alter his deal could cut or trade him at any given time with zero dead money attached.

So, needless to say, IF (again, this isn't happening) a team were going to trade for him, they'd be getting a very cost effective, non-guaranteed contract. 

Edited January 26 by rmcjacket23

[zing21042]

  54 minutes ago, ByTheBay said:

  1 hour ago, Azzi22 said:

all you flacco bashers.... have absolutely no clue what youre talking about... I can easily say 15-20 teams WISH AND PRAYED TO GOD they can have someone Flacco under center...Just take a look at other ''better'' qbs... what have they done with the talent they have surrounding them? Dalton/aj..brees and whoever..Rodgers/jordy..luck and ty..Stafford/megatron..big ben Antonio... list goes on and on... CALM YOURSELVES DOWN.. guy has had 5 oc's in 5 years.. NO RB.. horrible WR(no one near a elite one) and u want him to do good?

It's great when an argument includes how stupid everyone that doesn't agree with you is 😀

But I will throw you a bone to make your case. Please go ahead and name 15-20 teams that would trade their starting QB for the 23rd best QB in Flacco. I can see about 5 or 6. Keep in mind that they will be taking him with his 3rd highest salary in the league. A number people keep saying will be dwarfed every year by new higher contracts but I'm not seeing it actually happen. 

 

5-6? hahahah what hahaha... lets start..AFCE: bills...jets...dolphins(if u don't think they would take flacco over tannehil ur dumb)..AFCN: browns....AFCS: Houston/titans/jags.. (DONT TELL ME MARIOTTA)...AFCW: Denver....NFCE: Eagles/skins....NFCN:Vikings/bears......NFCS:Bucs....NFCW:Cards/rams/49ers....if you don't think ANYYYY of these teams would rather have flacco under center than the current one they have then u got issues...

Sorry I am with Azzi on this one. Clearly there are clubs in need of a good quarterback. I will even give you that Flacco is better than some of what is out there...at best, middle of the pack. However, you list these teams as if they would relish the idea of paying $28 million a year for a mediocre performance and one that has become the norm rather than the exception. One year can happen; three years is a pattern. Regardless of our record, his performance has been on a downward spiral since he signed that contract.

Another team would salivate to pick him up on a 1 year deal for $8-10 mil with an option for additional years. Alternatively, pick him up for $8-10 mil with performance incentives i.e., number of touchdowns, number of completed passes, number of interceptions, quarterback rating, classification among other quarterbacks in the league, etc. But unencumbered $25-28 mil...you would be hard pressed to find ANY takers.

[Azzi22]

  26 minutes ago, Azzi22 said:

5-6? hahahah what hahaha... lets start..AFCE: bills...jets...dolphins(if u don't think they would take flacco over tannehil ur dumb)..AFCN: browns....AFCS: Houston/titans/jags.. (DONT TELL ME MARIOTTA)...AFCW: Denver....NFCE: Eagles/skins....NFCN:Vikings/bears......NFCS:Bucs....NFCW:Cards/rams/49ers....if you don't think ANYYYY of these teams would rather have flacco under center than the current one they have then u got issues...

Again calling people dumb makes you sound uneducated. But I will take the bait. 

First, no way in the world would LA or Philly trade their new starting rookie QB for Flacco. Too much potential there. Same with Denver. 

It could be debated whether or not Joe is an upgrade over Mariota, Winston, Cousins, Palmer or Bradford. 

So that leaves the Jets, Dolphins, Bills, browns, Bears and 49ers. 6 teams that would for sure "wish and pray to god" as you said for Joe Flacco. 

Look, I know we are all passionate about out Ravens but there is a lot of valid criticism for Flacco and saying that almost 2/3 of the teams in this league would pray to have him is a little bit homer. I'd say a lot homer. Which you have every right to be as a fan.  

you really think Goeff and Wentz are better? you actually believe Mariota/Winston Cousins Palmer and Bradford are somewhat if not better? what have they done??? if youre talking stats wise.. it doesn't mean a damn thing.... that's your opinion... I disagree... and Denver? siemian.. all these teams will NEVER make it.. I mean NEVERRR EVERR.. thank GOD we finally found a QB.. look at us before flacco , in the same boat as all the other teams... don't get me wrong I cuss this guy more than anyone.. is he a moron sometimes, yes his play dictates that ..but what a BLESSING it is to have someone that's a 6/10

[TheConquerorWorm]

I'm confused. The FO says we need to strengthen our Oline but I think our starting group of Stanley, Lewis, Yanda and Wagner is pretty darn good. So the problem must be our Pro Bowl center? (I know I am floored by that too) Then its our receivers who before the season we were told are the best group in Ravens history. But for some reason they cant get seperation and Joe needs clear separation to throw the ball otherwise he hesitates. Then its always the OC's fault. Terrible scheme and play calling. Yeah that must be it. I think we will look back in the 10 years and laugh at how many players and staff have been thrown under the bus to avoid admitting Joe Flacco is the problem. I know we are stuck with him and I dont have a solution to offer but it's starting to look like this may be the case. 10th season. Think about that for a minute. In what skills has he improved over the last decade? After 10 years of doing the same job most people become much, much better. Sorry for the rant, I am just finished making excuses for our QB. Every year it's someone elses fault he is not succeeding. Madness at the castle. 

That group of Stanley, Lewis, Yanda & Wagner was only together for 4 games (the 1st 3 games and the 1st Pit game) last year. Not surprisingly, we won all 4 of those games. That's where our struggles were. Wagner is a FA and probably gone, Yanda is going to undergo his umpteenth shoulder surgery. So, yes we need to build our O-line.

What skills has Flacco improved? The ability to win games in the 4th quarter. He led the offense on game winning drives in the final minutes against Jax, Oak, NYG, Was, Pit. It's your misguided perception that he should somehow evolve into Tom Brady. He's not going to and probably never will. Phillip Rivers has been in the league 12 years and still can't win in the clutch despite having some of the game's best play-makers on his team. You think he should get better after 12 years, I say he's the same player he always was. Did Russell Wilson get better this year? Did Ryan Tannehill? Did Cam Newton? Did Eli Manning? Did Blake Bortles? Did Andrew Luck? Did Andy Dalton? Did Jamies Winston? Did Drew Brees? It's taken Matt Ryan 9 years to even get to the SB despite having some of the best offensive players in the league in their prime - Roddy White, Julio Jones, Tony Gonzalez, DeVonte Freeman, Michael Turner, etc. In the previous 8 years, he's won 1 play-off game.

Bottom line: Flacco can win games. In today's NFL that's all you need at QB. And a QB that can win games when the game is on the line in the 4th quarter is not your problem.

[rmcjacket23]

12 minutes ago, ByTheBay said:

Again calling people dumb makes you sound uneducated. But I will take the bait. 

First, no way in the world would LA or Philly trade their new starting rookie QB for Flacco. Too much potential there. Same with Denver. 

It could be debated whether or not Joe is an upgrade over Mariota, Winston, Cousins, Palmer or Bradford. 

So that leaves the Jets, Dolphins, Bills, browns, Bears and 49ers. 6 teams that would for sure "wish and pray to god" as you said for Joe Flacco. 

Look, I know we are all passionate about out Ravens but there is a lot of valid criticism for Flacco and saying that almost 2/3 of the teams in this league would pray to have him is a little bit homer. I'd say a lot homer. Which you have every right to be as a fan.  

1. But again, your lack of understanding of how NFL contracts work and what happens in a trade makes this much more debatable, because the contract that they would be getting Joe on is extremely team friendly, bordering on grand theft. Read my previous post about how the contract lines up for the trade recipient.

2. Knowing that, it changes the dynamic quite a bit. 

Based on what I see, here are the teams that I think would trade for Joe in a heartbeat:

Jets, Bills, Browns, Texans, Broncos, Bears, Vikings, 49ers, and Rams. I think those 9 teams, given Joe's great contract for them, would do that trade. Half of those are no brainers, because they literally don't have a QB. The Broncos have essentially two young QBs playing for peanuts, of which they don't know if either will be good. The Texans are a year away from dumping Osweiler all together, and can get Joe for just $6M next season. That's an easy decision. The Vikings owe no more guaranteed money to Bradford for 2017, and could cut him with zero dead money, so I think they'd much rather have Joe cheaply for the next three years or more then to pay Bradford $18M next season. And I don't actually think the Rams even like Jared Goff, and under a new regime, an established QB who you can get pretty cheap makes all the sense in the world. Even if you only kept Joe for a year or two, Goff can sit cheaply as well, because he's clearly not ready.

The wildcard team would be the Redskins. Again, given Joe's contract, you can get him very cheap for at least 3 years, and you're staring at Cousins getting $20M plus for the next three years. So would you rather have Flacco at roughly $12M/year for the next 3 years, or Cousins at $20M+ a year for the next 3 years?

I think you can make a strong case for at least 10 teams that would take him tomorrow, so you're talking roughly 1/3rd of the league. And I'm not even considering fringe teams like the Dolphins or Bengals, who could easily show interest as well.

 

 

[robbie29]

  1 hour ago, ByTheBay said:

Ravens were ranked #15 in the league in dropped passes. Right in the middle. Every team has dropped passes. 

How about crucial drops? There is a difference you know.

You're reaching, dude. Since SB 47, Flacco has finished near the bottom of the league each year. The guy stinks.

[omar586]

i still think its the coach's fault, especially Harb, no creativity, heck do use creativity just run the ball more don't become predictable and one demensional, inspite of all the issue we had we still could've made to the playoff had we ran the ball more during the season, heck not running the ball almost cost us the philly game,

[OriolesMagicPlease]

11 minutes ago, robbie29 said:

You're reaching, dude. Since SB 47, Flacco has finished near the bottom of the league each year. The guy stinks.

The overall offense has stunk, many reasons factor into that including dropped balls.  And I am not a dude.

[pangefous52]

2 hours ago, jravens1313 said:

Flacco won a SB with a great TEAM in 2012. It is now 2017. It's time to let it go and focus on what he has done lately.

2016: Drove his team down the field in Pittsburgh and scored the go-ahead touchdown that our defense crapped on the next Steelers possession, that possibly cost us a playoff spot and the division. Threw for over 4000 yards (for the first time in his career) and kept his team in a position to win games with one of the worst ground games in the NFL (ranked 28th). Had the highest completion percentage of his career (64.9%). Finished the season with an 8-8 record after coming back from reconstructive knee surgery, changing OC's mid-season, and having his (aged) number one wide receiver out for a good part of the season.

Based on his completion percentage alone, which has been creeping up each year...you can argue he's getting better. Granted, we had to throw it a lot because our ground game sucked. I guess I'm just not ready to close the door on Joe just yet. I think he is a talented QB that could/will win the team another ring. We can come back to this conversation in a few years and you can rub it in my face if he just implodes over the next few seasons, but I'm optimistic.

[ByTheBay]

45 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Well, its not actually true that they'd be trading for the 3rd highest salary in the league either. Keep in mind that much of Joe's compensation is in the form of bonuses, which is something that doesn't transfer over to another team on a trade. The only thing another team gets is the base salary in a trade and any future roster/option bonuses (and I'm not 100% sure they transfer either).

So, for example, IF (which this obviously isn't happening) they traded Joe this offseason, his base salaries for the next three years are all under $20M ($6M in 2017, $12M in 2018, $18.5M in 2019). Joe did defer a portion of his signing bonus from this past season to 2017, but my understanding is that the Ravens would be on the hook for that, not another team.

So any team trading for him would only have to pay him $36.5M over the next three years (and average of roughly $12M a season, which is an extreme bargain), and $81M over the next five years, which is still an average of $16.2M a year. At an AAV of $16.2M over five years, he would be the 23rd highest paid QB in the league currently, sandwiched between Alex Smith and Andy Dalton. 

AND keep in mind that none of those salaries is currently guaranteed, so any team that traded for him and didn't alter his deal could cut or trade him at any given time with zero dead money attached.

So, needless to say, IF (again, this isn't happening) a team were going to trade for him, they'd be getting a very cost effective, non-guaranteed contract. 

Ah I see my mistake is using the term "trade" when the comment I was rebuffing was (all you flacco bashers.... have absolutely no clue what youre talking about... I can easily say 15-20 teams WISH AND PRAYED TO GOD they can have someone Flacco under center) 

 

So my mistake. Please respond to my comments with this in mind. The poster stated 15-20 teams wished they "had" Joe Flacco. Not based in an argument where they would get him on the cheap due to a trade deal we could never realistically afford. His salary is the main issue that I have with him. If he was only 12m a year I would love to have him as my qb.

How many teams would take Joe Flacco for his current contract. Thanks 

[steelcityraven]

  2 hours ago, ByTheBay said:

I'm confused. The FO says we need to strengthen our Oline but I think our starting group of Stanley, Lewis, Yanda and Wagner is pretty darn good. So the problem must be our Pro Bowl center? (I know I am floored by that too) Then its our receivers who before the season we were told are the best group in Ravens history. But for some reason they cant get seperation and Joe needs clear separation to throw the ball otherwise he hesitates. Then its always the OC's fault. Terrible scheme and play calling. Yeah that must be it. I think we will look back in the 10 years and laugh at how many players and staff have been thrown under the bus to avoid admitting Joe Flacco is the problem. I know we are stuck with him and I dont have a solution to offer but it's starting to look like this may be the case. 10th season. Think about that for a minute. In what skills has he improved over the last decade? After 10 years of doing the same job most people become much, much better. Sorry for the rant, I am just finished making excuses for our QB. Every year it's someone elses fault he is not succeeding. Madness at the castle. 

That group of Stanley, Lewis, Yanda & Wagner was only together for 4 games (the 1st 3 games and the 1st Pit game) last year. Not surprisingly, we won all 4 of those games. That's where our struggles were. Wagner is a FA and probably gone, Yanda is going to undergo his umpteenth shoulder surgery. So, yes we need to build our O-line.

What skills has Flacco improved? The ability to win games in the 4th quarter. He led the offense on game winning drives in the final minutes against Jax, Oak, NYG, Was, Pit. It's your misguided perception that he should somehow evolve into Tom Brady. He's not going to and probably never will. Phillip Rivers has been in the league 12 years and still can't win in the clutch despite having some of the game's best play-makers on his team. You think he should get better after 12 years, I say he's the same player he always was. Did Russell Wilson get better this year? Did Ryan Tannehill? Did Cam Newton? Did Eli Manning? Did Blake Bortles? Did Andrew Luck? Did Andy Dalton? Did Jamies Winston? Did Drew Brees? It's taken Matt Ryan 9 years to even get to the SB despite having some of the best offensive players in the league in their prime - Roddy White, Julio Jones, Tony Gonzalez, DeVonte Freeman, Michael Turner, etc. In the previous 8 years, he's won 1 play-off game.

Bottom line: Flacco can win games. In today's NFL that's all you need at QB. And a QB that can win games when the game is on the line in the 4th quarter is not your problem.

A QB who's play has been marked by inconsistency throughout his career is our problem.

I have been and still am a big supporter of Joe Flacco but I have to call it fairly. Joe has shown the ability to win games for us. He has should that his ceiling is high (like in the 2012 super bowl run)

He has also shown that he can single handedly lose game for us. The problem is from game to game and even quarter to quarter you just don't know which Joe you get .

I think there are some reasons for that:
1. 5 OC in 5 years.
2. His knee injury
3. Inconsistency on the OL
4. A lack of balance in the run / pass game
5. Joe's refusal to put the extra time in with new WRs
6. Harbs insistence on not allowing Joe to run a no huddle
(Where Joe seems most comfortable)
7. No consistency in a QB coach...
(just like OC- Joe could benefit from spending time with a
reputable QB coach who could teach him how to manage
the pocket).
8. Joe's over reliance on 1 target.
(Pitta this year, SSS before) He needs to be able to see the field
9. Joe's desire to simply hit the check down instead of running through
his progressions. He needs coached up in these areas.
10. Joe needs to re-gain some confidence that only comes with
success.

Joe is not going anywhere / anytime soon. So the best thing we can do is help to solve some of these problems. We have retained a OC and he should be able to find some comfort there. We are building an OL and that will go a long way. He needs to work on some of this stuff with his WRs and we need to get him a legit QB coach... and they have to put the time in. The skillset is there / the consistency is not

That's just being a professional and making this your passion. Not just a job~!

[The Greek]

  3 hours ago, jravens1313 said:

Flacco won a SB with a great TEAM in 2012. It is now 2017. It's time to let it go and focus on what he has done lately.

2016: Drove his team down the field in Pittsburgh and scored the go-ahead touchdown that our defense crapped on the next Steelers possession, that possibly cost us a playoff spot and the division. Threw for over 4000 yards (for the first time in his career) and kept his team in a position to win games with one of the worst ground games in the NFL (ranked 28th). Had the highest completion percentage of his career (64.9%). Finished the season with an 8-8 record after coming back from reconstructive knee surgery, changing OC's mid-season, and having his (aged) number one wide receiver out for a good part of the season.

Based on his completion percentage alone, which has been creeping up each year...you can argue he's getting better. Granted, we had to throw it a lot because our ground game sucked. I guess I'm just not ready to close the door on Joe just yet. I think he is a talented QB that could/will win the team another ring. We can come back to this conversation in a few years and you can rub it in my face if he just implodes over the next few seasons, but I'm optimistic.

what the offense needs to improve as a whole is stalling for several drives. the offense goes into hibernation for 3 qtrs than wakes up in the 4th but it is usually too late. they need to start off strong and having a running game and minimizing stupid penalties will help

[whobilly]

  1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Well, its not actually true that they'd be trading for the 3rd highest salary in the league either. Keep in mind that much of Joe's compensation is in the form of bonuses, which is something that doesn't transfer over to another team on a trade. The only thing another team gets is the base salary in a trade and any future roster/option bonuses (and I'm not 100% sure they transfer either).

So, for example, IF (which this obviously isn't happening) they traded Joe this offseason, his base salaries for the next three years are all under $20M ($6M in 2017, $12M in 2018, $18.5M in 2019). Joe did defer a portion of his signing bonus from this past season to 2017, but my understanding is that the Ravens would be on the hook for that, not another team.

So any team trading for him would only have to pay him $36.5M over the next three years (and average of roughly $12M a season, which is an extreme bargain), and $81M over the next five years, which is still an average of $16.2M a year. At an AAV of $16.2M over five years, he would be the 23rd highest paid QB in the league currently, sandwiched between Alex Smith and Andy Dalton. 

AND keep in mind that none of those salaries is currently guaranteed, so any team that traded for him and didn't alter his deal could cut or trade him at any given time with zero dead money attached.

So, needless to say, IF (again, this isn't happening) a team were going to trade for him, they'd be getting a very cost effective, non-guaranteed contract. 

Ah I see my mistake is using the term "trade" when the comment I was rebuffing was (all you flacco bashers.... have absolutely no clue what youre talking about... I can easily say 15-20 teams WISH AND PRAYED TO GOD they can have someone Flacco under center) 

 

So my mistake. Please respond to my comments with this in mind. The poster stated 15-20 teams wished they "had" Joe Flacco. Not based in an argument where they would get him on the cheap due to a trade deal we could never realistically afford. His salary is the main issue that I have with him. If he was only 12m a year I would love to have him as my qb.

How many teams would take Joe Flacco for his current contract. Thanks 

15 to 20.

[Swift 1]

First this was Joe's worst year ever .I have never found Joe as inconsistant I seen him bad  and I seen him good, seldom inconsistant. The same as the running game,some of you keep saying how good it was and we shoulsd of ran more. I seen games where the rushing was so bad ,I can't figure out why we ran the ball 20 times.

 imo Flacco was not fully recovered from his injury otherwise why would he be wearing a brace. I know that is not an acceptable excuse but I m accepting it as a reason I am glad to see even the guys who dislike Flacco have finally come around to accept the fact he is staying here for at least the next three years, and imo he will have at least one GREAT year which will keep him here until he retires. 

[rmcjacket23]

1 hour ago, ByTheBay said:

Ah I see my mistake is using the term "trade" when the comment I was rebuffing was (all you flacco bashers.... have absolutely no clue what youre talking about... I can easily say 15-20 teams WISH AND PRAYED TO GOD they can have someone Flacco under center) 

 

So my mistake. Please respond to my comments with this in mind. The poster stated 15-20 teams wished they "had" Joe Flacco. Not based in an argument where they would get him on the cheap due to a trade deal we could never realistically afford. His salary is the main issue that I have with him. If he was only 12m a year I would love to have him as my qb.

How many teams would take Joe Flacco for his current contract. Thanks 

I was focused solely on teams that would like trade for him, of which I said there was pretty clearly about 10. 

Now if we dug deeper into teams that actually thought Joe would be an upgrade over who they had, that list would only grow, not get shorter. This would be my personal list of teams that would rather have their current QB over Joe:

Patriots, Steelers, Colts, Titans, Raiders, Chargers, Cowboys, Giants, Eagles, Saints, Falcons, Bucs, Panthers, Seahawks, Packers, Lions. So I personally (again, subjective) think there's 16 NFL teams that would take their QB over Joe right now, based on historical/current production and perceived future production (hence why I don't think teams like the Bucs/Eagles/Titans would rather have Joe over their guys).

So that leaves 15 NFL teams where I think they would take Joe over their QB right now if contract/trade compensation wasn't a factor.

While all of this is moot because Joe isn't going anywhere for several more years, it doesn't really accomplish anything to consider what teams would take who if you aren't going to consider contract situations, age, etc.

[rmcjacket23]

2 hours ago, robbie29 said:

You're reaching, dude. Since SB 47, Flacco has finished near the bottom of the league each year. The guy stinks.

Bottom of the league in what?

[KingJames757]

I'm confused. The FO says we need to strengthen our Oline but I think our starting group of Stanley, Lewis, Yanda and Wagner is pretty darn good. So the problem must be our Pro Bowl center? (I know I am floored by that too) Then its our receivers who before the season we were told are the best group in Ravens history. But for some reason they cant get seperation and Joe needs clear separation to throw the ball otherwise he hesitates. Then its always the OC's fault. Terrible scheme and play calling. Yeah that must be it. I think we will look back in the 10 years and laugh at how many players and staff have been thrown under the bus to avoid admitting Joe Flacco is the problem. I know we are stuck with him and I dont have a solution to offer but it's starting to look like this may be the case. 10th season. Think about that for a minute. In what skills has he improved over the last decade? After 10 years of doing the same job most people become much, much better. Sorry for the rant, I am just finished making excuses for our QB. Every year it's someone elses fault he is not succeeding. Madness at the castle. 

THANK YOU!!!!!! Someone finally hit the nail on the head..... i couldn't agree with you more!!!!!!!!

[Glen1024]

6 hours ago, Minionhunter said:

And that is with a consistent offensive system. Joe has had none. When was he at his best? When he was at the end of Cam's system just Caldwell calling it. Even SSS said he was confused on plays because the terms were all screwed up and that was just his route, think about the QB's head on the 5th system in 5 years....

Stop it stop it.....excuses is all people have for this man. He has played in only 2 offensive systems in his entire career....the playbook does not change, the terminology yes but they are the exact same plays every team uses....Flacco needs competent coaching to keep him engaged mentally in the game. As you stated the difference in Joe's play when conservative cam was calling plays and then Caldwell calling them. Kubiak comes in JOE has his best year as a pro...1st year in a NEW system....Flacco has all the physical gifts you'd want your QB to have but it's clear that he's not very cerebal, that's why he is coordinator dependent and his game takes on the personality of whoever is calling the plays. Whether that be conservative cam or open it up and let it go Caldwell

[mearzunkies]

  7 hours ago, Azzi22 said:

5-6? hahahah what hahaha... lets start..AFCE: bills...jets...dolphins(if u don't think they would take flacco over tannehil ur dumb)..AFCN: browns....AFCS: Houston/titans/jags.. (DONT TELL ME MARIOTTA)...AFCW: Denver....NFCE: Eagles/skins....NFCN:Vikings/bears......NFCS:Bucs....NFCW:Cards/rams/49ers....if you don't think ANYYYY of these teams would rather have flacco under center than the current one they have then u got issues...

Again calling people dumb makes you sound uneducated. But I will take the bait. 

First, no way in the world would LA or Philly trade their new starting rookie QB for Flacco. Too much potential there. Same with Denver. 

It could be debated whether or not Joe is an upgrade over Mariota, Winston, Cousins, Palmer or Bradford. 

So that leaves the Jets, Dolphins, Bills, browns, Bears and 49ers. 6 teams that would for sure "wish and pray to god" as you said for Joe Flacco. 

Look, I know we are all passionate about out Ravens but there is a lot of valid criticism for Flacco and saying that almost 2/3 of the teams in this league would pray to have him is a little bit homer. I'd say a lot homer. Which you have every right to be as a fan.  

Just your 2's opinions. LOL I for one like Flacco as the Raven's QB.

[Corvus]

I know Osemele is a beast and a mountain of a man to compare with ANYONE, but dang he makes Zuttah look like a shrimp. No wonder why Ozzie was so clear about getting more size on the o-line...

[bigcatfrank1]

Flacco won a SB with a great TEAM in 2012. It is now 2017. It's time to let it go and focus on what he has done lately.

now this is an interesting statement, lets all ponder it for just a moment. I will break it down for you , slowly and then I might add-

1-Flacco won a SB


2-with a great team


3-in 2012. it is now 2017


4-Its time to let it go and focus


5-on what he has done lately.


I think this is very interesting it says a lot, I dont think J really knows how much it says. I have read through the remarks on the article and was looking for a post to reply to and i came upon this post.

1-You see, Joe Flacco as J. points out won a Super Bowl, thats something that only 3 other AFC QB's have done since 2001. And Joe hasn't even played that long. So sure we cant go backwards but you cant take it away, its his and he has the ring, along with everyone else on that team.

2-A great Team it was indeed, thats right folks, it takes a great TEAM to win in football. You can have the greatest QB in the world but it doesnt mean a thing if your TEAM isnt great. Anyone remember Dan Marino? Fran Tarkenton? Dan Fouts? Philip Rivers?

3-yeah how about that 2012 Super Bowl Champs, that means that since no other team has repeated a win there are only 25 teams left in the NFL that have not won yet since 2012. In fact The Ravens missed the Playoffs again which was painful because we have become so accustomed to making the playoffs boy how depressing imagine if our Ravens were actually average "Joes" like 65% NFL teams who have less than 4 playoff appearances in the past 10 years.

4.-time to let it go, is it the Fans that should let this Go? Or is it the Team that should let something go? Should Joe let the ball go? Should the coaches focus? Should Joe focus? Should the fans focus? Should everybody Focus? Yes! Run the ball.

5.on what he has done lately but simply overcome complete disaster.
Some QB's fold up and cannot lead their team after coming off of an injury, ie. Neil Lomax, Sonny Jurgensen, even Tony Romo. But Joe Flacco has a rough year, then 20 starters go down and he gets hurt at the end of the season. He works the entire off-season to recover and returns for all 16 regular season games. Obviously not 100 %. He sets both personal and team completion and yardage records. As well leads the team to a .500 record a much improvement to the 5-11 2015 season even though the was a large amount of injuries in 2016 to quite a few key players.
How many teams would have Joe? if your asking me only one matters. He is a Raven and that is what he has earned.

So thank you J, Very Interesting post indeed.