[News] Eisenberg: AFC Needs To Get Its Butt In Gear To Catch Patriots

[Crusader]

Sooner or latter all good thing ends.

[Rav'n Maniac]

We won't be able to get close to the Pats level until our coaches can find their way to bring the best out of the players we have. That's the true difference between our two teams. They have drafted what, 29th to 32nd for how many years now? Yet they find ways to make no names into playmakers and we don't.

[RavenManiac#7]

We won't be able to get close to the Pats level until our coaches can find their way to bring the best out of the players we have. That's the true difference between our two teams. They have drafted what, 29th to 32nd for how many years now? Yet they find ways to make no names into playmakers and we don't.

You have hit the nail on the head, Rav'n Maniac. From another RavenManiac, I couldn't agree more. Of course, there is Cry Baby Brady, but, as you say, the Real difference between the Cheatriots and the Ravens is the HCs and the rest of each team's coaching staff. As much as it hurts to say it, Bill Belicheater is the best HC in football by a wide margin. And Harbaugh, in this fan's opinion, really has ridden the coat tails of, mainly, Ray Lewis. I don't think that his early success can be attributed to his skills as a coach. How much success has he had since Ray retired? Not much.

[Drew P]

They need football players with balls not Coach Hardhead type of choir boys

[RavenManiac#7]

  18 hours ago, Ravenous_Ravens said:

Pats are a good club, not that I am a fan. However they also have greatly benefited from being in a division where the competition is not great enough to really challenge for the division. IMHO this accounts for 3-4 wins every season, which is also the difference of making the playoffs and not, as well as having home field advantage versus not. My point is, while a good club, they have a lot of outside factors that also play a big role to their success. Any team that can win their division so many years in a row, pretty much uncontested does not play a very competitive division. Competitive implies the skill/talent level is roughly the same (overall). The reality is the Pats division is so far from competitive, and to be a team involved in several rule breaking scandals only adds salt to the wound and sullies the reputation, rightfully so.

I do not subscribe to your argument that the reason the patriots have been very successful for almost 2 DECADES is because they are in a weak division, and that being in a weak division is equivalent to a 3 - 4 game mulligan. This year they went 14 - 2. 5 - 1 in their division and 9 - 1 against non divisional opponents. Patriots usually win 13 to 14 games year in year out, so that should put that argument to rest.

I have to tell you that I never root for the patriots. I will root for any other team playing the patriots any day and twice on Sundays, but you have to agree that they are the most focused, most serious, most over achieving team in recent memory. What worries me with your line of thinking is, it's that same line of thinking that makes excuses for Flacco, and Ozzie. My dad would say to me when I brought a bad grade home "that kid that excelled in the test does not have 2 brains"
It sounds like we are giving the Ravens an excuse for not being as great as the Patriots. You can see that winning just seems to mean a little more to Brady than Flacco, or Belichick than Harbaugh or their front office than ours. We won't come out and say that, but what we put in, be it the QB, or the coach who gets out-slicked by their coach. Just how many times have you seen our team try a flee - flicker? Or our QB quicken the snap count to catch that defender before he runs out if the field, or before the entire defense is set? I mean there are multiple examples of one team using every thing within their power to win, while the other doesn't.

You make some very good points that seem hard, in my opinion, to disagree with. The Cheatriots overall record each year really does dispel the idea that the fact that they play in a weak division is the reason they make the playoffs Every year. And the greater desire to win on the part of Brady vs Flacco, and Belicheater vs Harbaugh is, sadly, valid, legitimate, and unfortunate for us loyal Ravens fans. I think that we deserve better. I have seen way too much smiling, laughing, and acceptance after bad plays, mistakes, and losses from certain Ravens players. I have NEVER seen those kinds of reactions from Any Cheatriot players. All I know is that when I played ball I hated losing even more than I loved winning, so I guarantee you that you would Never have seen me act like that after a bad play, mistake, or worse, a loss. And I think that is a good indication of just how important winning is to players.

[RavenManiac#7]

With the way we are playing on offense and defending a rare lead near end of games, coupled with unimaginative coaching and drafting, we are staring at Mr. Doom (not Elvis, the other one)! I think we need 'TALENT' on this team.

Talent on the coaching staff with young, creative minds coordinating both our offense and defense and a HC that is also an Xs and Os kind of coach. Motivation can only take a team so far. Belichick is a classic example of a grumpy man who doesn't care about overt motivation (like John does) but focuses instead on the opponents' weaknesses and puts together a game plan (exploiting even limited talent he may have) to defeat the opponent. That is the kind of coaching temperament we need. Harbaugh doesn't bring it for no fault of his. He's simply not that type of coach.

As for player talent, we're severely lacking in that department as well. Okay, so the Patriots may not be talented across the roster as well you may say. But, then they have a cerebral, angry and motivated QB who'll whip them into shape or else... we don't because Flacco seems to believe that all his fellow offensive players are old enough to understand because they're professionals and paid like him too (very logical thinking but...). It's not going to cut it in this uber competitive NFL. So things must change in that we need to amass playing talent at every level of the offense for us to even think of challenging to be SB champions year in and year out.

Finally, the front office is stuck in the rut of mediocrity for too long. I cannot fathom the reasons for this slide. But my guess is the answer lies in these 3 scenarios. A) Ozzie has lost his magic as has Eric DeCosta and Horitz (unlikely).
B) Harbaugh is too involved like is rumored (insists on taking players with high moral character and special teams participation over pure talent and ability - very likely cause). C) We have lost too much scouting talent to poaching by other NFL teams (likely). Or it could be some combination of all three. Unless we figure out which of these reason is the cause for our mediocre to less than mediocre drafts lately, we are facing Mr. Doom all over again.

Good post. Hard to disagree with.

[reed20]

22 hours ago, ravens4life86 said:

The patriots or cheaters have had a very big advantage over the afc for 2 decades because they play in the weakest division in the afc, so they are almost guaranteed 11 wins regardless of Brady, Matt Cassell or even Jimmy G probably.

You can argue the south but those teams are competative and turning a corner, you have 2 possibly 3 franchise qbs with Andy Luck, Marriota and if a Qb whisperer could fix Bortles. Houston always brings defense.

Ravens are the 1 team thats always been able to go into NE and beat them or put up a legit fight.
Gotta rebuild the defense, more pass rushers,CBs, Lbr/S
Beef up Oline and find a couple weapons

If the Patriots were in our division, they'd make us look weak, too. Just like they do their eastern brethren.

[billiejean]

With the way we are playing on offense and defending a rare lead near end of games, coupled with unimaginative coaching and drafting, we are staring at Mr. Doom (not Elvis, the other one)! I think we need 'TALENT' on this team.

Talent on the coaching staff with young, creative minds coordinating both our offense and defense and a HC that is also an Xs and Os kind of coach. Motivation can only take a team so far. Belichick is a classic example of a grumpy man who doesn't care about overt motivation (like John does) but focuses instead on the opponents' weaknesses and puts together a game plan (exploiting even limited talent he may have) to defeat the opponent. That is the kind of coaching temperament we need. Harbaugh doesn't bring it for no fault of his. He's simply not that type of coach.

As for player talent, we're severely lacking in that department as well. Okay, so the Patriots may not be talented across the roster as well you may say. But, then they have a cerebral, angry and motivated QB who'll whip them into shape or else... we don't because Flacco seems to believe that all his fellow offensive players are old enough to understand because they're professionals and paid like him too (very logical thinking but...). It's not going to cut it in this uber competitive NFL. So things must change in that we need to amass playing talent at every level of the offense for us to even think of challenging to be SB champions year in and year out.

Finally, the front office is stuck in the rut of mediocrity for too long. I cannot fathom the reasons for this slide. But my guess is the answer lies in these 3 scenarios. A) Ozzie has lost his magic as has Eric DeCosta and Horitz (unlikely).
B) Harbaugh is too involved like is rumored (insists on taking players with high moral character and special teams participation over pure talent and ability - very likely cause). C) We have lost too much scouting talent to poaching by other NFL teams (likely). Or it could be some combination of all three. Unless we figure out which of these reason is the cause for our mediocre to less than mediocre drafts lately, we are facing Mr. Doom all over again.

Flaccos mild temperament doesn't have anything to do with his struggles. I wish that was the problem but unfortunately its not. Flacco gets on players more than you would think, but they dont have audio recorders during the huddle. Being a ra ra, get in your face kinda guy at any position is extremely overrated. Matty Ice, who will likely be this years MVP is the same way. Yelling and screaming is cool if thats your thing, but it has absolutely no bearing on performance. Flacco gets on people when they mess up all the time and screaming at guys in the huddle isnt going to make them play any better. If youre in the NFL and you need someone to scream at you to get motivated youre not going to be around long. Some of the best players in this league are quiet guys... Tyrone Smith, Matty Ice, Calvin Johnson, Matt Birk, Todd Heap, Dennis Pitta, Gerald Mccoy, Haloti Ngata, Joe Thomas, and really I could go on for a while, those were just off the top of my head. I am on board with everything else you said in your comment though.

[thegooddoc456]

  4 hours ago, Rav'n Maniac said:

We won't be able to get close to the Pats level until our coaches can find their way to bring the best out of the players we have. That's the true difference between our two teams. They have drafted what, 29th to 32nd for how many years now? Yet they find ways to make no names into playmakers and we don't.

You have hit the nail on the head, Rav'n Maniac. From another RavenManiac, I couldn't agree more. Of course, there is Cry Baby Brady, but, as you say, the Real difference between the Cheatriots and the Ravens is the HCs and the rest of each team's coaching staff. As much as it hurts to say it, Bill Belicheater is the best HC in football by a wide margin. And Harbaugh, in this fan's opinion, really has ridden the coat tails of, mainly, Ray Lewis. I don't think that his early success can be attributed to his skills as a coach. How much success has he had since Ray retired? Not much.

Nothing but facts.

[Glen1024]

21 hours ago, Ravenous_Ravens said:

Pats are a good club, not that I am a fan. However they also have greatly benefited from being in a division where the competition is not great enough to really challenge for the division. IMHO this accounts for 3-4 wins every season, which is also the difference of making the playoffs and not, as well as having home field advantage versus not. My point is, while a good club, they have a lot of outside factors that also play a big role to their success. Any team that can win their division so many years in a row, pretty much uncontested does not play a very competitive division. Competitive implies the skill/talent level is roughly the same (overall). The reality is the Pats division is so far from competitive, and to be a team involved in several rule breaking scandals only adds salt to the wound and sullies the reputation, rightfully so.

I used to think this as well but the facts don't indicate this....

Brady has never lost to Atlanta, Chicago, Dallas, Jacksonville, Minnesota and Tampa Bay, combined 26-0 vs. those 6 teams.

 

Vs. the AFC East: 66-20 (.767)

Vs. the AFC North: 25-7 (.781)

Vs. the AFC South: 33-6 (.846)

Vs. the AFC West: 22-14 (.611)

Vs. the NFC East: 14-5 (.737)

Vs. the NFC North: 14-3 (.824)

Vs. the NFC South: 13-3 (.813)

Vs. the NFC West: 7-4 (.636)

 

 

[Glen1024]

I notice even though they're clearly the best team in the league for a number of years they keep their top assistants....something ravens should think about

[The Beak]

We won't be able to get close to the Pats level until our coaches can find their way to bring the best out of the players we have. That's the true difference between our two teams. They have drafted what, 29th to 32nd for how many years now? Yet they find ways to make no names into playmakers and we don't.

Agree 1000% Our coaching staff is just not good enough to move this team to championship level, I hope I am wrong, But why would we throw the baLL 50+ times a game knowing that's a recipe for losing, Why not play Ravens style aggressive defense, when you know our corners have trouble covering , Why not give Joe a chance to recover this year and run the ball even if only 3 or 4yds per carry, why not play our young olb early on rush downs, and bring in our elder pass rushing specialist on obvious passing downs, why try to throw the ball from the 5 yd line on first down when we're trying to use the clock, (this happened twice) JH said "I Probably should have intervened on the worst call of the year" and then it happened again the next week with the same outcome (interception) Let's do the same thing every week, but think the next week the result will change, (crazy right?) So yeah , how can we compete yearly with Bradychik , I think it starts with COACHING...

[steelcityraven]

  23 hours ago, jsarrocohome@yahoo.com said:

I say in FA stop worrying about a 4th or 5th round comp pick That usually doesn't make the team anyway and go out get a playmaker on Off or Def and stop always getting and overpaying for older players you can only draft so many good players a year and when you have a lot holes to fill this will help

I've been saying for years we need to stop focusing on quantity of picks and focus on quality of picks. Unfortunately, we have so many holes now that we need both. Missing ILB, DB, rusher and (if Williams goes) DL. We need OL, WR and fire on the offense.

Agreed..... We do have a lot of holes..but we can fill several of them fairly cheap. Look at Ducasse for example.. he played really well for us for next to nothing. We landed L Guy a few years ago and got him at a bargain deal... and he has been a solid starter for us. A few years ago we brought an aging ILB in here (DSMITH) for cheap and he played at a very high level for us.

We are going to have to spend money on a DB and WR... (or draft) but we do have a lot more holes that I have seen us have in a long time. Not sure why. We have typically been good at putting insurance policies in place

(like when we drafted BWilliams bc we knew that Ngata was in a contract year or when we drafted Alex Lewis bc we knew that Wags is coming up on a contract year). We have been proactive but we have also missed on some (Especially at S and CB)

We need to spend some money there which may mean we need to offload some fan favorites to do so!

[bigcatfrank1]

Shoulda, coulda, woulda, Yes the Ravens "woulda" beat New England why because Jimmy Smith would have been back full strength and Steve Smith's injury would have been healed up 50% more, Dixon would have gained more confidence, Pitta would have bounced back, Suggs arm would have miraculously regained 70% strength, Doom would have had 2 more games to get in stride, Tavon would have had 2 more games under his belt, Webb would have had 2 more games to learn Weddles accent, Joe would have had 2 more games to remember which was his front foot and which was his back foot...heck we just would have beaten them. Thats if, but the Ravens "shoulda" stopped the Squeelers on their own 35 yard line. And if, but the Ravens "coulda" picked up a veteran CB when they had the chance and let Forsett go. Collectively, there were many "failures" in 2016. I hope that everyone on the team, the coaching staff and the FO take a good look at what happened in 2016 and take it seriously. Yes, dont harp or focus on the negatives but acknowledge, understand that they happened and learn from them so that they do not continue. I believe that is what Coach Harbs says isn't it, Ok Coach lets get it right.

[bigcatfrank1]

With the way we are playing on offense and defending a rare lead near end of games, coupled with unimaginative coaching and drafting, we are staring at Mr. Doom (not Elvis, the other one)! I think we need 'TALENT' on this team.

Talent on the coaching staff with young, creative minds coordinating both our offense and defense and a HC that is also an Xs and Os kind of coach. Motivation can only take a team so far. Belichick is a classic example of a grumpy man who doesn't care about overt motivation (like John does) but focuses instead on the opponents' weaknesses and puts together a game plan (exploiting even limited talent he may have) to defeat the opponent. That is the kind of coaching temperament we need. Harbaugh doesn't bring it for no fault of his. He's simply not that type of coach.

As for player talent, we're severely lacking in that department as well. Okay, so the Patriots may not be talented across the roster as well you may say. But, then they have a cerebral, angry and motivated QB who'll whip them into shape or else... we don't because Flacco seems to believe that all his fellow offensive players are old enough to understand because they're professionals and paid like him too (very logical thinking but...). It's not going to cut it in this uber competitive NFL. So things must change in that we need to amass playing talent at every level of the offense for us to even think of challenging to be SB champions year in and year out.

Finally, the front office is stuck in the rut of mediocrity for too long. I cannot fathom the reasons for this slide. But my guess is the answer lies in these 3 scenarios. A) Ozzie has lost his magic as has Eric DeCosta and Horitz (unlikely).
B) Harbaugh is too involved like is rumored (insists on taking players with high moral character and special teams participation over pure talent and ability - very likely cause). C) We have lost too much scouting talent to poaching by other NFL teams (likely). Or it could be some combination of all three. Unless we figure out which of these reason is the cause for our mediocre to less than mediocre drafts lately, we are facing Mr. Doom all over again.

Your Statement is kind of loosely represented, I'm not sure that calling it Talent is deserved. Lets discuss your power points, I see your objections but some of your points may just be circumstantial and others might be a bit viewed unethical by some in the "sports industry". That is what makes this comparison so interesting.

first You use Doom as an example; Ok he came to the Ravens on a bit of a controversy, if you remember. But do really remember why that story received so much press? Because the Patriots were interested in Dumervil. Thats right, they were in the mix, so if the Ravens deal which was described as a "broken fax machine" problem, could have been called back, and then Denver ends up not making a deal it after all, it allows The Patriots to back door the entire situation. ahaaha.
this is called the power of high market press.
As far Dooms talent it was obviously unchallenged when he came to the team, i would say he may not even be back in 2017, don't be surprised.

2nd - Talent on coaching Staff , there really is not much difference here except that Mr Belichick has the experience and simply has the upper hand when it comes to his assistant coaching staff currently and for the past 9 years. However, The Ravens have 2 Super bowls since 2001 and the Patriots have 3 so the difference in total end game can be argued.

3rd, IF player development were an issue, why do we have the most Pro Bowl selections since 2006 and why do we lose our players to other teams for huge amounts of money?

4th, If the FO is stuck in mediocrity, why would we need to have to draft new players? to replace the sucky ones that no one wanted, but that is not the case? they would still be here from the year before. Somewhere along the line The Ravens would either be Drafting #1's all the time because they have the suckiest team, or they would be firing players for making the pro-bowl.

So I think what you are really trying to say is the Patriots have managed to deal well with their "average" players and possibly injuries have not hurt them quite as bad as The Ravens when looking at the timing of contracts.
As far as Brady, and the Patriots over all practices..i will just say, there is a clear difference in below 12lbs of air and 13lbs of air in a football.

[JetLife94]

It kills me watching the patriots beat the steelers the way they beat us. Over the middle, the flea flicker, pump fakes. It's like that's the way the Ravens offense used to play I remember when our offense played with swagger. 

[ellicottraven]

24 minutes ago, bigcatfrank1 said:

first You use Doom as an example

Stop right there because I need to issue a clarification. When I said staring at Mr. Doom, I really meant a doomsday scenario. Upon writing it, I realized it may be construed as Dumervil which is why I specifically added not Elvis , the other one (because Doom on our team is Elvis Dumervii). Now as for the rest you're obviously entitled to your opinion and I have no qualms about them, because your arguments are rational

Edited January 25 by ellicottraven

[Moderator 3]

2 minutes ago, JetLife94 said:

It kills me watching the patriots beat the steelers the way they beat us. Over the middle, the flea flicker, pump fakes. It's like that's the way the Ravens offense used to play I remember when our offense played with swagger. 

1997?

[bigcatfrank1]

  2 hours ago, bigcatfrank1 said:

first You use Doom as an example

Stop right there because I need to issue a clarification. When I said staring at Mr. Doom, I really meant a doomsday scenario. Upon writing it, I realized it may be construed as Dumervil which is why I specifically added not Elvis , the other one (because Doom on our team is Elvis Dumervii). Now as for the rest you're obviously entitled to your opinion and I have no qualms about them, because your arguments are rational

Ok e-raven, sure that makes sense. And yours as well, just thought I would add a few points of discussion, I would agree with you putting the solution on players performance on the field. I certainly hope we are looking at post season in 2017 that is for sure, i think some of the problems/mistakes were pretty obvious.

[#Nevermore]

  On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 11:04 AM, ellicottraven said:

With the way we are playing on offense and defending a rare lead near end of games, coupled with unimaginative coaching and drafting, we are staring at Mr. Doom (not Elvis, the other one)! I think we need 'TALENT' on this team.

Talent on the coaching staff with young, creative minds coordinating both our offense and defense and a HC that is also an Xs and Os kind of coach. Motivation can only take a team so far. Belichick is a classic example of a grumpy man who doesn't care about overt motivation (like John does) but focuses instead on the opponents' weaknesses and puts together a game plan (exploiting even limited talent he may have) to defeat the opponent. That is the kind of coaching temperament we need. Harbaugh doesn't bring it for no fault of his. He's simply not that type of coach.

As for player talent, we're severely lacking in that department as well. Okay, so the Patriots may not be talented across the roster as well you may say. But, then they have a cerebral, angry and motivated QB who'll whip them into shape or else... we don't because Flacco seems to believe that all his fellow offensive players are old enough to understand because they're professionals and paid like him too (very logical thinking but...). It's not going to cut it in this uber competitive NFL. So things must change in that we need to amass playing talent at every level of the offense for us to even think of challenging to be SB champions year in and year out.

Finally, the front office is stuck in the rut of mediocrity for too long. I cannot fathom the reasons for this slide. But my guess is the answer lies in these 3 scenarios. A) Ozzie has lost his magic as has Eric DeCosta and Horitz (unlikely).
B) Harbaugh is too involved like is rumored (insists on taking players with high moral character and special teams participation over pure talent and ability - very likely cause). C) We have lost too much scouting talent to poaching by other NFL teams (likely). Or it could be some combination of all three. Unless we figure out which of these reason is the cause for our mediocre to less than mediocre drafts lately, we are facing Mr. Doom all over again.

Your Statement is kind of loosely represented, I'm not sure that calling it Talent is deserved. Lets discuss your power points, I see your objections but some of your points may just be circumstantial and others might be a bit viewed unethical by some in the "sports industry". That is what makes this comparison so interesting.

first You use Doom as an example; Ok he came to the Ravens on a bit of a controversy, if you remember. But do really remember why that story received so much press? Because the Patriots were interested in Dumervil. Thats right, they were in the mix, so if the Ravens deal which was described as a "broken fax machine" problem, could have been called back, and then Denver ends up not making a deal it after all, it allows The Patriots to back door the entire situation. ahaaha.
this is called the power of high market press.
As far Dooms talent it was obviously unchallenged when he came to the team, i would say he may not even be back in 2017, don't be surprised.

2nd - Talent on coaching Staff , there really is not much difference here except that Mr Belichick has the experience and simply has the upper hand when it comes to his assistant coaching staff currently and for the past 9 years. However, The Ravens have 2 Super bowls since 2001 and the Patriots have 3 so the difference in total end game can be argued.

3rd, IF player development were an issue, why do we have the most Pro Bowl selections since 2006 and why do we lose our players to other teams for huge amounts of money?

4th, If the FO is stuck in mediocrity, why would we need to have to draft new players? to replace the sucky ones that no one wanted, but that is not the case? they would still be here from the year before. Somewhere along the line The Ravens would either be Drafting #1's all the time because they have the suckiest team, or they would be firing players for making the pro-bowl.

So I think what you are really trying to say is the Patriots have managed to deal well with their "average" players and possibly injuries have not hurt them quite as bad as The Ravens when looking at the timing of contracts.
As far as Brady, and the Patriots over all practices..i will just say, there is a clear difference in below 12lbs of air and 13lbs of air in a football.

I will agree with your assessment of roster talent and FO acumen. The Ravens and Patriots draft similarly. They hoard draft picks and believe more picks give you a higher chance of drafting better players. They also draft players that fit their particular scheme. Every once in a while you draft a Richard Seymour or a Marshal Yanda. But because you keep moving back in the draft more often than not, you pick a Segio Kindle or Courtney Upshaw. That is also why the players they have work well for their teams and play poorly for other teams.

Pro-Bowl spots mean nothing. No one wants to play in that game. Zuttah was just given the nod for pro-bowl this year and he didn't deserve it.

But the biggest differences between the two clubs is coaching and quarterback play. The creativity of the Ravens coaches on offense and defense is laughable when compared to the Patriots. Both staffs have had turnover and the Patriots keep winning and we are losing. Also if you think the air pressure of a football is the difference between Brady and Flacco, you're joking. I don't like the Patriots, but I'm a realist. They work their craft well. The Patriots actually have 4 SuperBowls since 2001 and it may be 5 by next season. The Ravens have 2. So however you look at it, there is no argument regarding the end game, 4>2.

The Ravens have to get better. This article lays it out flat. No sugarcoating the facts, get better or be humiliated.

[Chuckx999]

But the biggest differences between the two clubs is coaching and quarterback play. The creativity of the Ravens coaches on offense and defense is laughable when compared to the Patriots.

Who ever said that hit the nail on the head!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Patriots just keep on picking up players and winning BIG. We have Ozzie who may pick up one player worth a damm every year or two at the same time he is letting go players who just want to get paid. How about that Bolden guy, we sure could have used his skills and attitude. Add in a few defensive players that walk and we might even be 9 and 5. All the money going to 3 and OUT Flacco.

Coaching staff is just weak. Flacco just sits on the bench with a smile on his face. His money is in the bank and knows they will NOT pull him.

SAD, SAD, SAD

[Swift 1]

23 hours ago, Moderator 3 said:

1997?

Who was QB in 97 Redman?

[Moderator 3]

3 hours ago, Swift 1 said:

Who was QB in 97 Redman?

Testaverde

[RavenSwag]

We would've beat the Dolphins but lost to KC imo

[bigcatfrank1]

  On 1/25/2017 at 4:11 PM, bigcatfrank1 said:

  On 1/24/2017 at 0:04 PM, ellicottraven said:

With the way we are playing on offense and defending a rare lead near end of games, coupled with unimaginative coaching and drafting, we are staring at Mr. Doom (not Elvis, the other one)! I think we need 'TALENT' on this team.

Talent on the coaching staff with young, creative minds coordinating both our offense and defense and a HC that is also an Xs and Os kind of coach. Motivation can only take a team so far. Belichick is a classic example of a grumpy man who doesn't care about overt motivation (like John does) but focuses instead on the opponents' weaknesses and puts together a game plan (exploiting even limited talent he may have) to defeat the opponent. That is the kind of coaching temperament we need. Harbaugh doesn't bring it for no fault of his. He's simply not that type of coach.

As for player talent, we're severely lacking in that department as well. Okay, so the Patriots may not be talented across the roster as well you may say. But, then they have a cerebral, angry and motivated QB who'll whip them into shape or else... we don't because Flacco seems to believe that all his fellow offensive players are old enough to understand because they're professionals and paid like him too (very logical thinking but...). It's not going to cut it in this uber competitive NFL. So things must change in that we need to amass playing talent at every level of the offense for us to even think of challenging to be SB champions year in and year out.

Finally, the front office is stuck in the rut of mediocrity for too long. I cannot fathom the reasons for this slide. But my guess is the answer lies in these 3 scenarios. A) Ozzie has lost his magic as has Eric DeCosta and Horitz (unlikely).
B) Harbaugh is too involved like is rumored (insists on taking players with high moral character and special teams participation over pure talent and ability - very likely cause). C) We have lost too much scouting talent to poaching by other NFL teams (likely). Or it could be some combination of all three. Unless we figure out which of these reason is the cause for our mediocre to less than mediocre drafts lately, we are facing Mr. Doom all over again.

Your Statement is kind of loosely represented, I'm not sure that calling it Talent is deserved. Lets discuss your power points, I see your objections but some of your points may just be circumstantial and others might be a bit viewed unethical by some in the "sports industry". That is what makes this comparison so interesting.

first You use Doom as an example; Ok he came to the Ravens on a bit of a controversy, if you remember. But do really remember why that story received so much press? Because the Patriots were interested in Dumervil. Thats right, they were in the mix, so if the Ravens deal which was described as a "broken fax machine" problem, could have been called back, and then Denver ends up not making a deal it after all, it allows The Patriots to back door the entire situation. ahaaha.
this is called the power of high market press.
As far Dooms talent it was obviously unchallenged when he came to the team, i would say he may not even be back in 2017, don't be surprised.

2nd - Talent on coaching Staff , there really is not much difference here except that Mr Belichick has the experience and simply has the upper hand when it comes to his assistant coaching staff currently and for the past 9 years. However, The Ravens have 2 Super bowls since 2001 and the Patriots have 3 so the difference in total end game can be argued.

3rd, IF player development were an issue, why do we have the most Pro Bowl selections since 2006 and why do we lose our players to other teams for huge amounts of money?

4th, If the FO is stuck in mediocrity, why would we need to have to draft new players? to replace the sucky ones that no one wanted, but that is not the case? they would still be here from the year before. Somewhere along the line The Ravens would either be Drafting #1's all the time because they have the suckiest team, or they would be firing players for making the pro-bowl.

So I think what you are really trying to say is the Patriots have managed to deal well with their "average" players and possibly injuries have not hurt them quite as bad as The Ravens when looking at the timing of contracts.
As far as Brady, and the Patriots over all practices..i will just say, there is a clear difference in below 12lbs of air and 13lbs of air in a football.

I will agree with your assessment of roster talent and FO acumen. The Ravens and Patriots draft similarly. They hoard draft picks and believe more picks give you a higher chance of drafting better players. They also draft players that fit their particular scheme. Every once in a while you draft a Richard Seymour or a Marshal Yanda. But because you keep moving back in the draft more often than not, you pick a Segio Kindle or Courtney Upshaw. That is also why the players they have work well for their teams and play poorly for other teams.

Pro-Bowl spots mean nothing. No one wants to play in that game. Zuttah was just given the nod for pro-bowl this year and he didn't deserve it.

But the biggest differences between the two clubs is coaching and quarterback play. The creativity of the Ravens coaches on offense and defense is laughable when compared to the Patriots. Both staffs have had turnover and the Patriots keep winning and we are losing. Also if you think the air pressure of a football is the difference between Brady and Flacco, you're joking. I don't like the Patriots, but I'm a realist. They work their craft well. The Patriots actually have 4 SuperBowls since 2001 and it may be 5 by next season. The Ravens have 2. So however you look at it, there is no argument regarding the end game, 4>2.

The Ravens have to get better. This article lays it out flat. No sugarcoating the facts, get better or be humiliated.

Ok so we agree on general philosophy that drafting is a crap shoot,

Coaching is based on you vision of creativity, which might be called witchcraft i dont know, But coaches on Offense and Defense is laughable statement finds you slightly less credible. at least as a Ravens fan.

To say the Ravens- keep losing, is quite pessimistic, I understand that you want the perfect team to look like the Patriots. But unfortunately at what cost? or why? unless you have some weird fetish.

Yes i stand corrected The Patriots have 4 SB to the Ravens 2 SB since 2000 technically. Addtionally the Patriots have missed the Playoffs 3 years since 2000, The Ravens 7 years.
Of course Brady has played 8 more seasons than Flacco.

As far as Air pressure in a football, you missed that by a mile, lol.
Mr Brady was found guilty of and payed a penalty. Mr Belicheck has also been fined and corrected for misconduct.

there is a clear difference in Joe Flacco and Tom Brady

[#Nevermore]

4 hours ago, bigcatfrank1 said:

Ok so we agree on general philosophy that drafting is a crap shoot,

Coaching is based on you vision of creativity, which might be called witchcraft i dont know, But coaches on Offense and Defense is laughable statement finds you slightly less credible. at least as a Ravens fan.

To say the Ravens- keep losing, is quite pessimistic, I understand that you want the perfect team to look like the Patriots. But unfortunately at what cost? or why? unless you have some weird fetish.

Yes i stand corrected The Patriots have 4 SB to the Ravens 2 SB since 2000 technically. Addtionally the Patriots have missed the Playoffs 3 years since 2000, The Ravens 7 years.
Of course Brady has played 8 more seasons than Flacco.

As far as Air pressure in a football, you missed that by a mile, lol.
Mr Brady was found guilty of and payed a penalty. Mr Belicheck has also been fined and corrected for misconduct.

there is a clear difference in Joe Flacco and Tom Brady
 

Yes as a Raven's fan, I don't think the Ravens coaching is nearly as creative as the Patriots coaching (i.e. making adjustments, play design, etc). I also think that LeVeon Bell is a better running back then West or Dixon, does that preclude me from being a Raven's fan as well?

We have not made the playoffs in 3 out of 4 years, I would call that losing. Whether it's pessimism or not, it's a fact. I didn't say the Patriots are perfect, I said they are winning. Alluding to your facts that the Patriots have had 3 losing seasons and the Ravens have had 7, during that span. Winning is what we as fans want from the Ravens. I want it at the cost of better coaching, better selection in free agency, retaining drafted players, etc. 

It is fairly irrelevant how many years each quarterback has played, since we are comparing that time frame.

I didn't miss your point, regarding the air pressure in the football. My point was that the difference in air pressure of a football, doesn't equate to the difference in talent between Brady and Flacco.