risers and fallers

[rossihunter2]

27 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

Just going to point this out. I have never seen an elite pass rusher with the stats charles harris posted. The keys for an elite pass rusher seems to be

3-cone

Broad Jump

TJ watt had better number than von miller here and weighed in at 255 

the keys are not combine drills, the keys are traits that they demonstrate against live competition and their production and iq there, everyone loves to play the comparison game but very rarely are two pass rushers ever truly alike - this is not to say that i dont like tj watt but charles harris is a legitimate prospect - im lower on him than some but he is easily a first round guy

[jboy19]

26 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

Just going to point this out. I have never seen an elite pass rusher with the stats charles harris posted. The keys for an elite pass rusher seems to be

3-cone

Broad Jump

TJ watt had better number than von miller here and weighed in at 255 

I think for Watt he had issues because that kind of athleticism/explosion wasn't common on his film. But J.J. had similar issues coming out- definitely ended up being a better pro than college player. 

[Sami84]

10 minutes ago, jboy19 said:

I think for Watt he had issues because that kind of athleticism/explosion wasn't common on his film. But J.J. had similar issues coming out- definitely ended up being a better pro than college player. 

 

They both have similar mentalities too. 

As usual though, De Costa singled out tim williams and charles harris.

The man doesn't learn. Those two are not good enough.

[jboy19]

16 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

They both have similar mentalities too. 

As usual though, De Costa singled out tim williams and charles harris.

The man doesn't learn. Those two are not good enough.

Knowing DeCosta, singling out Williams and Harris means he probably already ruled out taking them lol. 

[Sami84]

1 minute ago, jboy19 said:

Knowing DeCosta, singling out Williams and Harris means he probably already ruled out taking them lol. 

I hope so. Harris in particular would be a very very bad pick

[Jacquouille]

1 hour ago, jboy19 said:

I really didn't think this was a super revealing combine. Nobody really did anything that should have been too shocking to anyone imo. 

In a sense it wasn't, but if you told me before the combine that Chris Godwin, Adoree Jackson and Evan Engram would run the same 40, I would have laughed. Doesn't say much but still funny.

[Jacquouille]

29 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

They both have similar mentalities too. 

As usual though, De Costa singled out tim williams and charles harris.

The man doesn't learn. Those two are not good enough.

And why is that?

[JoeyFlex5]

Charles Harris is stiff, if he's posting bad 3 cone times that's why. Still the best first step in the class with great hands and inside moves. He just doesn't bend he edge well. We all knew his tape would look better than his combine 

[allblackraven]

If we go corner day 1, I want Ryan Anderson or Tak Mckinley in 2nd round.

[Sami84]

17 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

And why is that?

We cannot take another stiff OLB and btw joeyflex, best hands IMHO is derek barnett.

[Jacquouille]

6 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

We cannot take another stiff OLB and btw joeyflex, best hands IMHO is derek barnett.

Stiffness can be an issue if you're ZDS and you don't know any move, and all you can do is bull rush without any plan. Harris' spin move is wicked, he's still agile enough to win outside and strong enough to bull rush. All in all you get a guy that can contribute right away. You can make a case that Williams isn't the most bendy guy but I wouldn't qualify him as stiff, and he's got the best array of moves in the class to rush the passer.

 

[Sami84]

3 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

Stiffness can be an issue if you're ZDS and you don't know any move, and all you can do is bull rush without any plan. Harris' spin move is wicked, he's still agile enough to win outside and strong enough to bull rush. All in all you get a guy that can contribute right away. You can make a case that Williams isn't the most bendy guy but I wouldn't qualify him as stiff, and he's got the best array of moves in the class to rush the passer.

 

 

then why do I have a hunch, even after watching the college tap and now seening the combine that it will end up biting us in the you know what if we took one of them instead of TJ watt?

 

[Jacquouille]

31 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

then why do I have a hunch, even after watching the college tap and now seening the combine that it will end up biting us in the you know what if we took one of them instead of TJ watt?

 

That's being subjective and I try to avoid that, part of the reason why I don't disagree with the common thought that Corey Davis is a top10 pick despite the fact that I find his tape boring as hell.

[rossihunter2]

46 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

That's being subjective and I try to avoid that, part of the reason why I don't disagree with the common thought that Corey Davis is a top10 pick despite the fact that I find his tape boring as hell.

really? i love watching how he catches lol - i guess each to their own - but in terms of subjectivity it is funny how it affects everything... i really dont like watching charles harris but i still objectively see the traits that will maybe make him successful

[Jacquouille]

8 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

really? i love watching how he catches lol - i guess each to their own - but in terms of subjectivity it is funny how it affects everything... i really dont like watching charles harris but i still objectively see the traits that will maybe make him successful

Well I don't know (and that's why I don't argue lol) but it's like he always faces off coverage and he has all the space and the time in the world to make his cut and catch the ball. He does have some highlight reel catches though.

[rossihunter2]

3 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

Well I don't know (and that's why I don't argue lol) but it's like he always faces off coverage and he has all the space and the time in the world to make his cut and catch the ball. He does have some highlight reel catches though.

see watch some of his stems and the way he runs them - i find it fun to watch because he sells the routes even when he doesnt need to which gives him even more space to work in - watch voch lombardi's analysis of him - it was eye opening in terms of the creative way he runs routes and sets up receivers especially when you run it against mike williams tape - i think he earns a lot of the space defenders give him

[JoeyFlex5]

3 hours ago, Sami84 said:

We cannot take another stiff OLB and btw joeyflex, best hands IMHO is derek barnett.

I said best first step with great hands, didn't say best hands. I know full well that's Barnetts title 

[JoeyFlex5]

3 hours ago, Sami84 said:

then why do I have a hunch, even after watching the college tap and now seening the combine that it will end up biting us in the you know what if we took one of them instead of TJ watt?

 

Because people get hunches. 

I think takk McKinley is a massive bust but nobody else does, it's a hunch based on his tape.

[rossihunter2]

6 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Because people get hunches. 

I think takk McKinley is a massive bust but nobody else does, it's a hunch based on his tape.

i agree lol - always have been unimpressed by him - ive never liked sheer athleticism in prospects historically and i still dont - garrett gets a pass because of how ridiculous his athleticism is - but takk shows nothing beyond athleticism and effort which are good qualities but not first round edge rushing qualities

[allblackraven]

12 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Because people get hunches. 

I think takk McKinley is a massive bust but nobody else does, it's a hunch based on his tape.

He's a lot like Markus Golden, only more athletic. Needs to learn some moves but strength, get-off and especially effort are all there and at the high level.

[ellicottraven]

Risers Solomon Thomas, Reddick, Obi and Ross, Christian McCaffery and maybe T.J. Watt (because some team will fall in love with him and subconsciously believe he's the next coming of JJ) and Peppers. Fallers: Foster, Barnett (though these two may be gone by 16), Fournette and Cooper Kupp.

[rossihunter2]

23 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

Risers Solomon Thomas, Reddick, Obi and Ross, Christian McCaffery and maybe T.J. Watt (because some team will fall in love with him and subconsciously believe he's the next coming of JJ) and Peppers. Fallers: Foster, Barnett (though these two may be gone by 16), Fournette and Cooper Kupp.

I don't think Barnett is falling yet just because he played through illness and teams will appreciate that, fournette I don't think anything has changed for

kupp is a different story because I thought he was fallible to start with which the combine confirmed for me a bit

you might find this interesting: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000791127/article/combine-notes-myles-garretts-impact-intriguing-rbs-more - there is a couple of quotes on fournette in there

Edited March 8 by rossihunter2

[RavensDieHard21]

16 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Because people get hunches. 

I think takk McKinley is a massive bust but nobody else does, it's a hunch based on his tape.

I am in that club. If we pick Tak I will be pissed. Too raw with average burst and no arsenal of pass rush moves. I'd easily take Watt, Harris or Williams over him.

[Cillmatic]

1 hour ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

I am in that club. If we pick Tak I will be pissed. Too raw with average burst and no arsenal of pass rush moves. I'd easily take Watt, Harris or Williams over him.

I 100% agree. I don't get why there's so much hype for this guy.

[rossihunter2]

2 hours ago, Cillmatic said:

I 100% agree. I don't get why there's so much hype for this guy.

especially in a year when there is a much more athletic guy who is also a better player - the hype on him makes little sense because there are so many good athletes who have much better film - i really think he's a 2nd rounder at best - i dont want him on the ravens though at all

[ravensnick]

 

21 hours ago, allblackraven said:

He's a lot like Markus Golden, only more athletic. Needs to learn some moves but strength, get-off and especially effort are all there and at the high level.

That comparison holds pretty well in my book. Goldens been a very productive NFL player, so I think Tak has major potential.

[allblackraven]

10 minutes ago, ravensnick said:

 

That comparison holds pretty well in my book. Goldens been a very productive NFL player, so I think Tak has major potential.

He does and I think they are similar character wise, too - Tak should be very dependable on and coachable guy.

[rossihunter2]

9 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

He does and I think they are similar character wise, too - Tak should be very dependable on and coachable guy.

That's a lot of vague projecting though for the 16th pick in the draft...

[ravensnick]

For me;

Risers:

Obi Melifonwu: absolutely destroyed the combine. He's going to go top 20 now in my book. His tape is very good as well. He's not just athlete, he's a football player.

Kevin King: His 40 and 3 cone drill were incredibly good for his size. Could move into the Thursday night conservation

John Ross: breaking 40 records helps, but he's not Darius Heyward-Bey. Looks like a better verison of Brendin Cooks to me. 

Myles Garret: His vertical was higher than Odell's. He ran a 4.6 40 at 270 lbs. Garrett somehow boosted his stock despite already the consensus #1

Gareon Conley: He should go Round 1 now

Jordan Willis: up there for best combines

 

Fallers:

Reuben Foster:Getting sent home definitely doesn't help his stock, but he's still going to get drafted before us

Jalen Tabor: Looked slow and stiff

Rasul Douglas: really slow 40 (which is actually a problem for CBs)

Davon Godchaux: ran slow and pulled his hamstring

Charles Harris: really underperformed, pretty bad 3 cone time and broad

Garrett Sickles: 4.90 40, 8'9' broad, and 28 inch vert. Those are really bad numbers for a 4-3 DE.

 

 

Edited March 8 by ravensnick

[allblackraven]

17 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

That's a lot of vague projecting though for the 16th pick in the draft...

I want Tak in 2nd round