risers and fallers

[JoeyFlex5]

my risers and fallers as of now...

im gonna pick adoree jackson as a big riser, the only person who seems to be mocking him in the top 20 atm is charlie from WF. most others have him early 2nd, but i think when he crushes the combine and establishes himself as the best athlete in the class, along with some really good tape and a great track record against high competition, he will fly up boards. he has inconsistencies, he hasnt shown enough in off coverage which you would really want with a 5'10" corner who is under 190lbs, but he probably has the highest ceiling of any cb in this class, sidney jones and quincy wilson both appear to be safer picks but some team will take adoree jackson high because he is gonna drop some jaws at the combine. i think he will turn out pretty good too, i wouldnt mind having him here because he is a guy who could strike fear into qbs which is something we desperately need.

my fallers a month ago wouldve been tabor or humphrey, but it actually appears they are already falling, maybe someone finally noticed tabors blatant constant holding and humphreys stiffness. putting those guys aside, im gonna take leonard fournette as a faller. high mileage, nagging injuries in places you REALLY dont want on a workhorse type of RB, he has a bruising running style that will likely shorten his career by quite a bit. i dont think he has a massive tumble but i think he'll fall a good bit, i dont really see any teams in the top 10 aside from the jets, panthers, and browns who could use a RB but they all are very far from being ready to run a RB into the ground, none of them will see a good return from fournette except maybe the panthers who i could see taking cam robinson. if he makes it past the panthers and browns i think he ends up falling to either the ravens, at which point id be pretty pissed but still excited, or i could see detroit taking him.  

 

who do you guys have rising and falling?

[ravensnation5220]

Big riser is Takk McKinley. He'll storm up boards after the combine. I think his tape is better than given credit for. 

Faller at this point is Tim Williams for sure

[JoeyFlex5]

1 minute ago, ravensnation5220 said:

Big riser is Takk McKinley. He'll storm up boards after the combine. I think his tape is better than given credit for. 

Faller at this point is Tim Williams for sure

i think his combine numbers will have him in the mid to late first but i dont think his tape is that great. ive watched him extensively and i just never come off impressed, i like how quickly he eats up space but i just cant get over his stiffness and how badly he gets stonewalled so often. 

he reminds me A LOT of emmanuel ogbah, like mirror images on tape.

[ravensnation5220]

1 minute ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

i think his combine numbers will have him in the mid to late first but i dont think his tape is that great. ive watched him extensively and i just never come off impressed, i like how quickly he eats up space but i just cant get over his stiffness and how badly he gets stonewalled so often. 

he reminds me A LOT of emmanuel ogbah, like mirror images on tape.

The thing that stands out to me with Takk is his effort and how he wins with just raw talent and power. He's very solid in the run game and teams are often forced to double him up because one on one not many can handle him. Ogbah was more of a finished product. He didn't have as much room to grow and doesnt nearly have as good a first step and explosion off the line as Takk. Takks upside is what will get him drafted high because he has all the tools to succeed. 

[JoeyFlex5]

4 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

The thing that stands out to me with Takk is his effort and how he wins with just raw talent and power. He's very solid in the run game and teams are often forced to double him up because one on one not many can handle him. Ogbah was more of a finished product. He didn't have as much room to grow and doesnt nearly have as good a first step and explosion off the line as Takk. Takks upside is what will get him drafted high because he has all the tools to succeed. 

im referring to the measurables and the stiffness. ogbah didnt have the same burst but was much more powerful and actually wasnt very refined at all, he had a bullrush and an underhook and thats it, takk has basically the same thing except he uses more of a combo of speedrush and bullrush. where i compare them is the way they both tried to win with pure physical talent and often got stonewalled, and largely because size and speed fails you if you have no bend/flexibility and play heavy on your feet. both are big and athletic guys with high motors, who play stiff and upright and try to win on all effort and athleticism. 

[RaineV1]

I think Harris is going to be a riser and set himself up to be the third edge guy taken. It depends what his size is at the combine, but I know he'll put up good numbers in the drills.

Edited January 16 by RaineV1

[JoeyFlex5]

12 minutes ago, RaineV1 said:

I think Harris is going to be a riser and set himself up to be the third edge guy taken. It depends what he size is at the combine, but I know he'll put up good numbers in the drills.

Agreed. He might be the most explosive edge rusher and film shows he's got great hands. 

Better bend and he's a top 10 pick but sadly he lacks that a good bit. I might be one of the only ones who would love to see us take him at 16

[ravensnation5220]

15 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Agreed. He might be the most explosive edge rusher and film shows he's got great hands. 

Better bend and he's a top 10 pick but sadly he lacks that a good bit. I might be one of the only ones who would love to see us take him at 16

I mocked him to us so your not alone there 

[RaineV1]

14 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Agreed. He might be the most explosive edge rusher and film shows he's got great hands. 

Better bend and he's a top 10 pick but sadly he lacks that a good bit. I might be one of the only ones who would love to see us take him at 16

With what happened with Williams, I think all the edge guys moved up a bit in the draft. Harris will end up being taken in the mid teens where Williams would have been. I don't think he's a sure fire, pull the trigger type of guy, but I'd gladly take him if we don't get a good offer to move back to the early twenties.

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, RaineV1 said:

With what happened with Williams, I think all the edge guys moved up a bit in the draft. Harris will end up being taken in the mid teens where Williams would have been. I don't think he's a sure fire, pull the trigger type of guy, but I'd gladly take him if we don't get a good offer to move back to the early twenties.

after watching more tape, i actually like harris better than williams, and this is before the added character issues arose. seeing him lose his balance everytime he had a chance to bend against clemson really turned me off of him, especially when a far inferior athlete in ryan anderson proved to be a far better football player right across from him. 

i like harris' hands and explosion better and he still has a decent bend. it sucks harold landry is returning to school because i wouldve marked him as a major riser, like late 20s possibly.

[RavensDieHard21]

2 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Agreed. He might be the most explosive edge rusher and film shows he's got great hands. 

Better bend and he's a top 10 pick but sadly he lacks that a good bit. I might be one of the only ones who would love to see us take him at 16

I'm in the same boat. I pray we land either rusher or corner first, preferring rusher because of the drop off. After Garrett and Barnett, I think Harris could be the next best rusher. Tim Williams I was high on but I still think he needs to grow. He has natural pass rusher form and frame, but he gets outmuscled at times and played on Bama so he gets graded with a slight curve.

[RavensDieHard21]

Coincidentally many have Tabor falling, which early on he might, but then comes the combine. I think he posts top five 40 time and every one jumps back on the wagon. I see him being either first or second CB taken. 

I think Anderson had a good combine and cements himself in the late 20s too. He has been pegged a third rounder for the past month or so.

Sliding: 

Desmond King, I know he is borderline first round pick but I think he won't be as fast as scouts want him to be and he ends up going in the second. 

Lawson. I think his injury concerns push him to the middle of the second. I could see him potentially even being there at 48. 

[RavensFanMania]

On 1/16/2017 at 0:31 AM, RaineV1 said:

I think Harris is going to be a riser and set himself up to be the third edge guy taken. It depends what his size is at the combine, but I know he'll put up good numbers in the drills.

I totally agree with this.  Harris will be a top 10 pick

[VermontRaven]

Alabama LB Reuben Foster will miss combine and 4 months due to rotator cuff surgery.  I wonder if this will affect his draft position.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2017/story/_/id/18676946/reuben-foster-former-alabama-crimson-tide-lb-miss-nfl-scouting-combine-drills-shoulder-surgery

Edited February 13 by VermontRaven
typo

[rmw10]

20 minutes ago, VermontRaven said:

Alabama LB Reuben Foster will miss combing and 4 months due to rotator cuff surgery.  I wonder if this will affect his draft position.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2017/story/_/id/18676946/reuben-foster-former-alabama-crimson-tide-lb-miss-nfl-scouting-combine-drills-shoulder-surgery

It shouldn't.  Another guy with pretty much 0 question marks.  You know what type of player you're getting when he gets healthy.

[January J]

Not sure why but I think peppers is a big faller. Early on I saw him in every single mock as a lock for the top ten and possibly even a top 6 pick....lately every mock I've seen has him from 19-30.. Don't even think there's a real reason. Its funny BC I could certainly see him being our pick as well...the need for a safety.. The need for another lb who can drop back in coverage after orr retiring - the harbaugh connection- and just his overall versatility. Not to mention it could knock out our revolving door of kick returners since the departure of Jacoby. That's an underrated need of ours not many have mentioned. I don't like the pick considering the other options that will be available but I def would understand it and hope for the best.

[jboy19]

8 minutes ago, January J said:

Not sure why but I think peppers is a big faller. Early on I saw him in every single mock as a lock for the top ten and possibly even a top 6 pick....lately every mock I've seen has him from 19-30.. Don't even think there's a real reason. Its funny BC I could certainly see him being our pick as well...the need for a safety.. The need for another lb who can drop back in coverage after orr retiring - the harbaugh connection- and just his overall versatility. Not to mention it could knock out our revolving door of kick returners since the departure of Jacoby. That's an underrated need of ours not many have mentioned. I don't like the pick considering the other options that will be available but I def would understand it and hope for the best.

A lot of the problem is that he doesn't share the same traits as most LB/S tweeners because he has never really been an "enforcer" so to speak who is going to punish receivers at the catch point and he's never been the kind of player to lockdown a TE in coverage. I think ideally he becomes a solid free safety because his instincts are his best traits, but I think its hard to get the benefit of the doubt for a college safety who only recorded one INT in an entire college career. 

Personally, I think that if he didn't have Heisman hype/Top Recruit hype and some crazy good return film, he probably would have been considered a Round 2 guy from the beginning. Time will tell what happens because so many teams would use him in so many different ways, but I like the guy and hopes he puts in the work. 

[rossihunter2]

15 minutes ago, jboy19 said:

A lot of the problem is that he doesn't share the same traits as most LB/S tweeners because he has never really been an "enforcer" so to speak who is going to punish receivers at the catch point and he's never been the kind of player to lockdown a TE in coverage. I think ideally he becomes a solid free safety because his instincts are his best traits, but I think its hard to get the benefit of the doubt for a college safety who only recorded one INT in an entire college career. 

Personally, I think that if he didn't have Heisman hype/Top Recruit hype and some crazy good return film, he probably would have been considered a Round 2 guy from the beginning. Time will tell what happens because so many teams would use him in so many different ways, but I like the guy and hopes he puts in the work. 

and play for michigan

[balfan23]

When it comes to who rises and falls, I get a sense that it has as much to do with the writers, bloggers, etc gleaning better information from teams than it has to do with a player going up or down the boards in the individual team's war rooms. 

Sure, players wow or disappoint at the combine/pro-days which can cause them to move on the team's boards (which are the only boards that matter) but I doubt that movement is as dramatic as what we see in the mocks. I still think as much of it comes from the writers getting improved intel over time from the "little birds" that they have around the league. 

This year, the mocks are as disjointed as I've seen them in mid-Feb. The disparity from one mock to the next is significant. It will settle down over time, but I really think this year there are going to be a lot of players going off the board much sooner or later than anticipated - more so than in previous years. 

[PurpleCity5]

Peppers is my faller. I think teams will have trouble deciding what to do with him. I understand the versatility that's being touted but he's 205 LBs, that's not what you want at OLB/ILB unless he bulks up big time. The average ILB is about 220-235 or something like that. If he does gain that weight, then it rules him out as a safety/corneback because he might not be fast enough. Not to mention he's not much of a play-maker either at that spot. To be honest his only fit might be as a SS. 

[Bruce_Almty]

On mock drafts and mockers ... if they get half of the first 10 picks right, they are doing well. Speculation and discussion are fun but that's all it is. This is truly they worst time of the football year. 

[usmccharles]

5 minutes ago, Bruce_Almty said:

On mock drafts and mockers ... if they get half of the first 10 picks right, they are doing well. Speculation and discussion are fun but that's all it is. This is truly they worst time of the football year. 

I wouldn't say the worst.  At least there is the FA and the draft to look forward to. After that.....nothing.

[PurpleHorseman]

I see Solomon Thomas going before Jonathan Allen by the time draft day gets here. Separated by 10lbs and Thomas obliterated him in about every category. I don't think Allen is going top3 like predicted.

[RavensDieHard21]

As much as I like Soloman Thomas, don't confuse combine numbers with actual production. Allen is arguably the best overall prospect even with Garrett in this class. He dominates at what he does. Thomas is great and had a great combine so I think he goes top 10. Allen will not make it past the Titans. 

[RavensDieHard21]

Risers: 

Forest Lamp, Haason Reddick, Adoree Jackson, Jabrill Peppers, Gareon Conley, Christian McCaffrey, Fabian Moreau, Charles Harris, Kevin King, Raekwon McMillan, Garrett Bolles, John Ross, obi wan and TJ Watt. 

Fallers: 

Reuben Foster, Malik Hooker--i just see him slipping outside top 10. Teez Tabor, Jourdan Lewis, Isiah ford, Desmond King--avoided the 40, Taco Charlton, Rasul Douglas. 

[PurpleHorseman]

2 hours ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

As much as I like Soloman Thomas, don't confuse combine numbers with actual production. Allen is arguably the best overall prospect even with Garrett in this class. He dominates at what he does. Thomas is great and had a great combine so I think he goes top 10. Allen will not make it past the Titans. 

 

Not only the combine. I always felt he was overhyped. And a tweener with no real standout traits for any position.Combine kinda confirmed that. He is light and not overly strong for DT. Then not overly explosive for edge rusher. He is a very refined and coached up player.  I could be wrong. 

[Sami84]

3 hours ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

Risers: 

Forest Lamp, Haason Reddick, Adoree Jackson, Jabrill Peppers, Gareon Conley, Christian McCaffrey, Fabian Moreau, Charles Harris, Kevin King, Raekwon McMillan, Garrett Bolles, John Ross, obi wan and TJ Watt. 

Fallers: 

Reuben Foster, Malik Hooker--i just see him slipping outside top 10. Teez Tabor, Jourdan Lewis, Isiah ford, Desmond King--avoided the 40, Taco Charlton, Rasul Douglas. 

2

I dont see how charles harris did anything to show that. For me he's a 2nd to 3rd round talent. TJ watt is the the athletic freak of this class oddly enough. 

[jboy19]

I really didn't think this was a super revealing combine. Nobody really did anything that should have been too shocking to anyone imo. 

[rossihunter2]

13 minutes ago, jboy19 said:

I really didn't think this was a super revealing combine. Nobody really did anything that should have been too shocking to anyone imo. 

if anything though it was a more helpful one because it confirmed a lot of opinions i had and maybe shifted the balance in terms of positional value for me specifically - it wasnt crazy unexpected which meant it didn't challenge so much what we'd all been seeing on tape etc. which is reassuring

[Sami84]

Just going to point this out. I have never seen an elite pass rusher with the stats charles harris posted. The keys for an elite pass rusher seems to be

3-cone

Broad Jump

TJ watt had better number than von miller here and weighed in at 255