[News] Late For Work 1/12: Greg Roman Expected To Join Staff; Ravens Get 'A' In 2016 Offseason Re-Grade

[bioLarzen]

Yes, bring in Roman as our Run Game Coordinater - which means Castillo is gone (because what has he really done??) and ultimately Roman will be in place mid season when Morninweg is fired because the offense is slacking again. Am I the only one seeing a trend here??????

Why would having a run game coordinator mean the O-wall coach is gone? The two are obviously not the same.

[TheConquerorWorm]

This corner class might be 14' WR deep. That does not mean let's wait an eternity to pick one either. 

After Jones, Wilson, Lattimore, Lewis, and King, there is a dip. Not saying the others aren't going to be good starters, but the top 5 are likely going to be game changers. 

I disagree. Humphrey, Tabor, Jackson, Tankersley, White, Conley & Chidobe are all equally talented, if not more than the guys you listed. There are 12-15 top quality NFL starting CB in this draft. I would love for the Ravens to go out and get two of them - let's put this CB thing to rest.

As much as the trolls on here would cry, I would like to see Oz move back into the 20s in the 1st round and snag 1 of those CB and then use those extra picks to move up in the 2nd Round to snag another one of those guys.

But, I have a feeling the Ravens will have most of those guys pretty evenly rated (they are imo) - meaning that at least 1 of them will be around in the 2nd round. Wouldn't surprise me if the Ravens didn't use a 1st Round pick on a CB but instead went with Solomon Thomas (if he falls) or a WR like Corey Davis/Mike Williams. Peppers would make for a great S as well.

[ByTheBay]

1 hour ago, The Mom Gene said:

WEDDLE:  $13M guaranteed for 4 years. $26 overall.

For 2016... Base was $1M; Signing Bonus @1.75M; and Roster Bonus of $1M....

 

WALLACE .....  two years and $11.5 million. The deal is really for one year and $5.75 million with an option for another season worth $5.75 million. 

Wallace got $4.5 million signing bonus to sign in Baltimore with a $1 million bonus due in March of 2017.

Problem is people want us to bring in good players, then they don't think they deserve to get paid.... I'm not thinking this guy was overpaid this year.... Not for all the leadership he brings to this team. $3.75M? I think he's worth every penny.

I'm not great with understanding how bonuses affect the cap. $26m - 3.75 = $22.25 for the next 3 years w/ a 7.41m average or because $13m is guaranteed, if he were let go after next season we would be paying him 9.25m next year?. Weddle is making on average 2m more a season than Webb who everyone seems to think is always overpaid no matter how many times he restructures his deal. Seems high to me for 2 players in the late stages of their careers. I love having Weddle on our squad though and think he made a huge impact on our secondary. I just dont want to be having the conversation about his cap hit this time next year. Also, I dont fault him for dropping a few interceptions. If DB's had good hands they would have become receivers. He was under appreciated at the end in SD so I dont want to make the same mistake. 

[JD08]

  3 hours ago, The Greek said:

he will take over in week 4. this draft is deep with cb's and edge rushers. hope the fo trades our late rd picks to move up or grab an extra 2nd or 3rd, pierre garcon or possibly kenny britt but i wish we could develop receivers for once. still hoping perriman and chris moore get it done

Moore at the very least has looked great on ST. We all know Perriman is electric. He and Flacco need to get together this offseason. We also need creative plays to get him the ball. His hands aren't bad it's a concentration thing where he looks up field before completing the catch. 

I don't think I've ever seen a post about Flacco working with any receivers in the offseason before...

[JD08]

  2 hours ago, b93333 said:

Don't get the talk of drafting a RB. With our glaring needs at CB, edge rusher, safety to replace Webb (if he is indeed a cap casualty), center, right tackle (assuming Wagner will be too costly) and overall depth on the OL, the need of a 3rd RB seems pretty far down the list.

Not 3rd RB. Possibly 1st RB.

If we had a gamebreaker at RB, think of how many more games we probably wouldve won. Not saying its a glaring "need," but if you consider the impact having a much better run game wouldve had on this season it makes sense.

The reason for a bad run game this yr was because the lack of actually running the ball

[thegooddoc456]

  2 hours ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

  3 hours ago, The Greek said:

he will take over in week 4. this draft is deep with cb's and edge rushers. hope the fo trades our late rd picks to move up or grab an extra 2nd or 3rd, pierre garcon or possibly kenny britt but i wish we could develop receivers for once. still hoping perriman and chris moore get it done

Moore at the very least has looked great on ST. We all know Perriman is electric. He and Flacco need to get together this offseason. We also need creative plays to get him the ball. His hands aren't bad it's a concentration thing where he looks up field before completing the catch. 

I don't think I've ever seen a post about Flacco working with any receivers in the offseason before...

Bruh, Flacco is one annoying creature. Don't hold your breathe, he won't be taking any such proactive steps anytime soon. Personally, I know Flacco is a great player...WHEN HE WANTS TO BE. Playoff game he shows up, game on the line he mostly shows up...heck I believe if we had the ball with a minute and change left at Pitt, Flacco probably wins that game too. Problem is; why can't he play with the same focus and intensity consistently? How come he is able to find open receivers in those pressure moments but sleep-walks his way through most of the game? I've seen talented people like Flacco who are seemingly bored with life and only get going when there's a boot up their behinds. Flacco desperately needs a coach with a size 14 boot constantly lodged in Joe's behind. He needs to be called out before, during and after the game, constantly pressured to be great or he'll always veer back into his default snooze mode, and making rare appearances in big moments.

[rmcjacket23]

  3 hours ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

  4 hours ago, The Greek said:

he will take over in week 4. this draft is deep with cb's and edge rushers. hope the fo trades our late rd picks to move up or grab an extra 2nd or 3rd, pierre garcon or possibly kenny britt but i wish we could develop receivers for once. still hoping perriman and chris moore get it done

Moore at the very least has looked great on ST. We all know Perriman is electric. He and Flacco need to get together this offseason. We also need creative plays to get him the ball. His hands aren't bad it's a concentration thing where he looks up field before completing the catch. 

I don't think I've ever seen a post about Flacco working with any receivers in the offseason before...

You haven't seen one of most other QBs in the league also. Just because YOU don't see it or somebody on the internet doesn't report it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

[rmcjacket23]

  3 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

  3 hours ago, b93333 said:

Don't get the talk of drafting a RB. With our glaring needs at CB, edge rusher, safety to replace Webb (if he is indeed a cap casualty), center, right tackle (assuming Wagner will be too costly) and overall depth on the OL, the need of a 3rd RB seems pretty far down the list.

Not 3rd RB. Possibly 1st RB.

If we had a gamebreaker at RB, think of how many more games we probably wouldve won. Not saying its a glaring "need," but if you consider the impact having a much better run game wouldve had on this season it makes sense.

The reason for a bad run game this yr was because the lack of actually running the ball

And that would be true, if we didn't rank 23rd in YPC, which measures how effective you are at actually running the ball when you do run it.

So while we didn't run it enough, we also weren't nearly effective enough when we did run it. Certainly not a case of a team being good at running the ball not running it enough.

[rmcjacket23]

1 hour ago, ByTheBay said:

I'm not great with understanding how bonuses affect the cap. $26m - 3.75 = $22.25 for the next 3 years w/ a 7.41m average or because $13m is guaranteed, if he were let go after next season we would be paying him 9.25m next year?. Weddle is making on average 2m more a season than Webb who everyone seems to think is always overpaid no matter how many times he restructures his deal. Seems high to me for 2 players in the late stages of their careers. I love having Weddle on our squad though and think he made a huge impact on our secondary. I just dont want to be having the conversation about his cap hit this time next year. Also, I dont fault him for dropping a few interceptions. If DB's had good hands they would have become receivers. He was under appreciated at the end in SD so I dont want to make the same mistake. 

Here's a breakdown of Weddle and Wallace's deal:

Weddle: 4 years, $26M, $13M guaranteed, $7M signing bonus

Cash actually received by year: 

2016: $9M ($7M signing bonus + $1M salary+ $1M roster bonus)... all guaranteed

2017: $4M salary... guaranteed

2018 and 2019: $6.5M salary

Cap impacts: 

2016: $3.75M ($1.75M of signing bonus (1/4th) + $1M salary + $1M roster bonus)

2017: $5.75M ($1.75M of signing bonus + $4M salary)

2018 and 2019: $8.25M ($1.75M of signing bonus + $6.5M salary)

Wallace: 2 years, $11.5M, $4.5M guaranteed, $4.5M signing bonus

Cash actually received by year: 

2016: $5.75M ($4.5M signing bonus + $1.25M salary)

2017: $5.75M ($4.75M salary + $1M roster bonus)... in form of team option (becomes FA if Ravens decline option)

Cap impacts: 

2016: $3.5M ($2.25M of signing bonus (1/2) + $1.25M salary)

2017: $8M ($2.25M of signing bonus + $4.75M salary + $1M roster bonus)

 

 

[rmcjacket23]

6 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Here's a breakdown of Weddle and Wallace's deal:

Weddle: 4 years, $26M, $13M guaranteed, $7M signing bonus

Cash actually received by year: 

2016: $9M ($7M signing bonus + $1M salary+ $1M roster bonus)... all guaranteed

2017: $4M salary... guaranteed

2018 and 2019: $6.5M salary

Cap impacts: 

2016: $3.75M ($1.75M of signing bonus (1/4th) + $1M salary + $1M roster bonus)

2017: $5.75M ($1.75M of signing bonus + $4M salary)

2018 and 2019: $8.25M ($1.75M of signing bonus + $6.5M salary)

Wallace: 2 years, $11.5M, $4.5M guaranteed, $4.5M signing bonus

Cash actually received by year: 

2016: $5.75M ($4.5M signing bonus + $1.25M salary)

2017: $5.75M ($4.75M salary + $1M roster bonus)... in form of team option (becomes FA if Ravens decline option)

Cap impacts: 

2016: $3.5M ($2.25M of signing bonus (1/2) + $1.25M salary)

2017: $8M ($2.25M of signing bonus + $4.75M salary + $1M roster bonus)

 

 

And just to be clear... there's basically nothing wrong with Weddle's deal for 2017. He's going to be back and it almost certainly will be under the same deal. Has a very reasonable $5.75M cap hit and a very reasonable salary of $4M. I can't see any reason the Ravens would want to change either part of that. 

If there's somehow a decent decline in his production, then 2018 could be different. He costs $2.5M more then, up over $8M. 

With Wallace its a bit different. His cap number more than doubles this season, and while I think he was definitely a productive player and we could use him, I'm not sure he's going to produce double the value.

I think its possible that we decline his option and MAYBE look to sign him to an extension at a lower cap number in the short term. Conventional wisdom says this may not be the smartest move, considering he and Perriman play similar roles and its probably not a good idea to look to lock up a 30 year old speed WR long term.

My hunch is that he will be back in 2016 as is and it will likely be the final year he is here.

Edited January 12 by rmcjacket23

[The Mom Gene]

1 hour ago, bioLarzen said:

Why should you - when the problem with him was the exact opposite: that he's forgotten sopme of his old tricks?

So, the fact that he had a complete carousel for an O-Line, and was coming off an ACL is absolutely no excuse.  Yeah, I get it... 

[The Mom Gene]

5 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

And just to be clear... there's basically nothing wrong with Weddle's deal for 2017. He's going to be back and it almost certainly will be under the same deal. Has a very reasonable $5.75M cap hit and a very reasonable salary of $4M. I can't see any reason the Ravens would want to change either part of that. 

If there's somehow a decent decline in his production, then 2018 could be different. He costs $2.5M more then, up over $8M. 

With Wallace its a bit different. His cap number more than doubles this season, and while I think he was definitely a productive player and we could use him, I'm not sure he's going to produce double the value.

I think its possible that we decline his option and MAYBE look to sign him to an extension at a lower cap number in the short term. Conventional wisdom says this may not be the smartest move, considering he and Perriman play similar roles and its probably not a good idea to look to lock up a 30 year old speed WR long term.

My hunch is that he will be back in 2016 as is and it will likely be the final year he is here.

Absolutely nothing wrong with his deal...  or Wallace's.   We'll see what happens with Wallace now that Steve is gone.

[Doomville]

I think if either fournette or cook falls to us, Ravens will sweep him up in a hurry. The o-line wasn't amazing but it still wasn't bad. Also, don't forget that alex lewis missed last 8 or so games due to injury so once he returns, the line should be: Stanley, Lewis, Zuttah, Yanda, Wagner (if he resigns). Zuttah should be the one we look to upgrade and the o-line will no longer be a weakness. A top rb will take off a lot of pressure on flacco which will help him a lot. 

Edited January 12 by Doomville

[The Mom Gene]

2 minutes ago, Doomville said:

I think if either fournette or cook falls to us, Ravens will sweep him up in a hurry. The o-line wasn't amazing but it still wasn't bad. Also, don't forget that alex lewis missed last 8 or so games due to injury so once he returns, the line should be: Stanley, Lewis, Zuttah, Yanda, Wagner (if he resigns). Zuttah should be the one we look to upgrade and the o-line will no longer be a weakness. A top rb will take off a lot of pressure on flacco which will help him a lot. 

YUP, we need a new Center...  Urschel who has been the backup...  Could he be a replacement?

[leziRav]

  3 hours ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

This corner class might be 14' WR deep. That does not mean let's wait an eternity to pick one either. 

After Jones, Wilson, Lattimore, Lewis, and King, there is a dip. Not saying the others aren't going to be good starters, but the top 5 are likely going to be game changers. 

I disagree. Humphrey, Tabor, Jackson, Tankersley, White, Conley & Chidobe are all equally talented, if not more than the guys you listed. There are 12-15 top quality NFL starting CB in this draft. I would love for the Ravens to go out and get two of them - let's put this CB thing to rest.

As much as the trolls on here would cry, I would like to see Oz move back into the 20s in the 1st round and snag 1 of those CB and then use those extra picks to move up in the 2nd Round to snag another one of those guys.

But, I have a feeling the Ravens will have most of those guys pretty evenly rated (they are imo) - meaning that at least 1 of them will be around in the 2nd round. Wouldn't surprise me if the Ravens didn't use a 1st Round pick on a CB but instead went with Solomon Thomas (if he falls) or a WR like Corey Davis/Mike Williams. Peppers would make for a great S as well.

I agree, I m thinking of picking an outside started QB in the first, then move up in the second to pick a safety (one of the top 5 safeties will be there) then in mid rounds we can get our back up CBs. Also we get a top center in 3rd rd. Regarding pass rushers, if a top one is not there at 16th then no need to get a pass rusher in the first 3 rounds. Let give a chance to the pass rushers we already have on the roster ( KC back to OLB, Kaufusi DE and Judon is already a good pass rusher). Also we can cut Doom and resign him cheaper. Vic Beasley rookie year was a bust, but he lead the league with sacks in his second year. I think healthy Suggs, Doom, Judon, Z. Smith, KC, Kaufusi could be enough.

[leziRav]

  1 hour ago, JD08 said:

  3 hours ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

  4 hours ago, The Greek said:

he will take over in week 4. this draft is deep with cb's and edge rushers. hope the fo trades our late rd picks to move up or grab an extra 2nd or 3rd, pierre garcon or possibly kenny britt but i wish we could develop receivers for once. still hoping perriman and chris moore get it done

Moore at the very least has looked great on ST. We all know Perriman is electric. He and Flacco need to get together this offseason. We also need creative plays to get him the ball. His hands aren't bad it's a concentration thing where he looks up field before completing the catch. 

I don't think I've ever seen a post about Flacco working with any receivers in the offseason before...

Bruh, Flacco is one annoying creature. Don't hold your breathe, he won't be taking any such proactive steps anytime soon. Personally, I know Flacco is a great player...WHEN HE WANTS TO BE. Playoff game he shows up, game on the line he mostly shows up...heck I believe if we had the ball with a minute and change left at Pitt, Flacco probably wins that game too. Problem is; why can't he play with the same focus and intensity consistently? How come he is able to find open receivers in those pressure moments but sleep-walks his way through most of the game? I've seen talented people like Flacco who are seemingly bored with life and only get going when there's a boot up their behinds. Flacco desperately needs a coach with a size 14 boot constantly lodged in Joe's behind. He needs to be called out before, during and after the game, constantly pressured to be great or he'll always veer back into his default snooze mode, and making rare appearances in big moments.

I agree or have a good back up behind him that will challenge him for the starting job.
Regarding working with the WRs, I think Flacco said that we will put something together to work with the young WRs during the offseason. I can't remimber if it was an article or an interview.

[bioLarzen]

What I fail to see here is how a run game specialist will make a change if the OC continues to abandon the run...

[bioLarzen]

  11 minutes ago, Doomville said:

I think if either fournette or cook falls to us, Ravens will sweep him up in a hurry. The o-line wasn't amazing but it still wasn't bad. Also, don't forget that alex lewis missed last 8 or so games due to injury so once he returns, the line should be: Stanley, Lewis, Zuttah, Yanda, Wagner (if he resigns). Zuttah should be the one we look to upgrade and the o-line will no longer be a weakness. A top rb will take off a lot of pressure on flacco which will help him a lot. 

YUP, we need a new Center...  Urschel who has been the backup...  Could he be a replacement?

If he was better than Zuttah, he would long be the starting C. If he's not an upgrade over Zuttah then why replace Zuttah with him?

[rmcjacket23]

3 minutes ago, bioLarzen said:

What I fail to see here is how a run game specialist will make a change if the OC continues to abandon the run...

Well, we need to be more effective at running the ball first before we just start running it more.

[leziRav]

  14 minutes ago, Doomville said:

I think if either fournette or cook falls to us, Ravens will sweep him up in a hurry. The o-line wasn't amazing but it still wasn't bad. Also, don't forget that alex lewis missed last 8 or so games due to injury so once he returns, the line should be: Stanley, Lewis, Zuttah, Yanda, Wagner (if he resigns). Zuttah should be the one we look to upgrade and the o-line will no longer be a weakness. A top rb will take off a lot of pressure on flacco which will help him a lot. 

YUP, we need a new Center...  Urschel who has been the backup...  Could he be a replacement?

The replacement will come from the draft, I think Ethan Pocic or Jay Guillermo will be on board for us in 3rd. I like Guillermo more, 325lb and he was a beast during the championship game vs Alabama.

[omar586]

no running game b/c OC/HC abandons it, so what u do is hire another coach to fix it, wow,

[The Mom Gene]

33 minutes ago, bioLarzen said:

If he was better than Zuttah, he would long be the starting C. If he's not an upgrade over Zuttah then why replace Zuttah with him?

I don't know if that was the case.  I just get sick of seeing that pocket collapse and people getting to Joe all the time.  When you don't see that happening with other teams....  It seems as though some of those guys have all day long.

[The Mom Gene]

8 minutes ago, omar586 said:

no running game b/c OC/HC abandons it, so what u do is hire another coach to fix it, wow,

When a defense is consistently stuffing your RB, and you're behind, you don't fire your HC or OC.   You find a better line that can create creases or a RB that can move around, has patience and can make something out of a run....  Me Personally?????  I like Dixon better than West..... 

[The Mom Gene]

1 hour ago, thegooddoc456 said:

Bruh, Flacco is one annoying creature. Don't hold your breathe, he won't be taking any such proactive steps anytime soon. Personally, I know Flacco is a great player...WHEN HE WANTS TO BE. Playoff game he shows up, game on the line he mostly shows up...heck I believe if we had the ball with a minute and change left at Pitt, Flacco probably wins that game too. Problem is; why can't he play with the same focus and intensity consistently? How come he is able to find open receivers in those pressure moments but sleep-walks his way through most of the game? I've seen talented people like Flacco who are seemingly bored with life and only get going when there's a boot up their behinds. Flacco desperately needs a coach with a size 14 boot constantly lodged in Joe's behind. He needs to be called out before, during and after the game, constantly pressured to be great or he'll always veer back into his default snooze mode, and making rare appearances in big moments.

While I understand that you might be frustrated... Maybe you should put in an application for the job.   I would have just a word of advice, As they say at M&T....  Don't be a jerk......  You might not like the guy...  and that's fine.  It's your opinion.  But you have to look at more than what you believe to be the problem here.

 

[fluffy201]

  59 minutes ago, Doomville said:

I think if either fournette or cook falls to us, Ravens will sweep him up in a hurry. The o-line wasn't amazing but it still wasn't bad. Also, don't forget that alex lewis missed last 8 or so games due to injury so once he returns, the line should be: Stanley, Lewis, Zuttah, Yanda, Wagner (if he resigns). Zuttah should be the one we look to upgrade and the o-line will no longer be a weakness. A top rb will take off a lot of pressure on flacco which will help him a lot. 

YUP, we need a new Center...  Urschel who has been the backup...  Could he be a replacement?

I don't think Urschel should even be in discussion since a 4th round rookie basically took his job. I think he is decent depth, but they need better players than Urschel on the line.

[thegooddoc456]

40 minutes ago, The Mom Gene said:

While I understand that you might be frustrated... Maybe you should put in an application for the job.   I would have just a word of advice, As they say at M&T....  Don't be a jerk......  You might not like the guy...  and that's fine.  It's your opinion.  But you have to look at more than what you believe to be the problem here.

 

I don't know what you're on about. Of course, all anyone has here is their opinion. I'm convinced Flacco is a great player that needs to be constantly pushed to be at his best. That's that. 

[ByTheBay]

48 minutes ago, The Mom Gene said:

I don't know if that was the case.  I just get sick of seeing that pocket collapse and people getting to Joe all the time.  When you don't see that happening with other teams....  It seems as though some of those guys have all day long.

Some of that can be attributed to our lack of a run game. Those other teams you speak of probably have a decent balance of run/pass and maybe even have a qb that can pick up a few yards on their own so defenses respect that. No one respected the Ravens play calling this season. Defensive coordinators knew the odds were in their favor to send more than 3 guys at Flacco. They knew that because of his knee and possibly coaching he chooses to go to the ground more often than scramble. Joe used to run like a damn stallion in his early years. I think the coaching staff or maybe his angent told him to stop running. I dont know. So while everyone talks about how bad our line was or how bad flacco played I think it really came down to stubborn Tressman and his refusal to make adjustments and run the ball even when behind. Those of us who have watched many many football games remember that often the greatest comebacks are a product of the losing team refusing to abandon the run. Just methodically sticking to the plan. Teams that panick and throw the ball 60 times rarely comeback. I hope Marty is a better play caller than Marc. Balance is the key. Whether it seems to be working or not

[The Mom Gene]

4 hours ago, ByTheBay said:

Some of that can be attributed to our lack of a run game. Those other teams you speak of probably have a decent balance of run/pass and maybe even have a qb that can pick up a few yards on their own so defenses respect that. No one respected the Ravens play calling this season. Defensive coordinators knew the odds were in their favor to send more than 3 guys at Flacco. They knew that because of his knee and possibly coaching he chooses to go to the ground more often than scramble. Joe used to run like a damn stallion in his early years. I think the coaching staff or maybe his angent told him to stop running. I dont know. So while everyone talks about how bad our line was or how bad flacco played I think it really came down to stubborn Tressman and his refusal to make adjustments and run the ball even when behind. Those of us who have watched many many football games remember that often the greatest comebacks are a product of the losing team refusing to abandon the run. Just methodically sticking to the plan. Teams that panick and throw the ball 60 times rarely comeback. I hope Marty is a better play caller than Marc. Balance is the key. Whether it seems to be working or not

I can agree with that.

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

Both Weddle and Wallace played an important part on this team and earned the money they were paid.

Weddle is a sure tackler who is also a leader. I personally would like Oz to get someone to play along side him who would compliment him better than Webb did.

Wallace can still run and catch and we saw him catch balls over the middle of the field at times this season not just going deep. I believe Wallace can be a reliable #2 WR  and Perriman a #3 who's still developing for the Ravens next year. That being said we need a true #1 WR preferably a rookie or a younger vet still in his prime.

West and Dixon both ran the ball hard and played hard nosed lunch box football and both complimented eachother well and were worth the money they got.

The Ravens need to sure-up the O-line and get younger guys who can compliment Yanda ,Stanley ,Lewis and Wagner all of whom showed they can play at this level. Stanley and Lewis are no longer rookies and showed improvement as their rookie season went along.

So Oz has got to get a true #1WR , build up the O-line to give Flacco time to run the offense and open holes for Dixon and West. Oz has also got to get more playmakers for the secondary and pass rushers. The coaches have got to call a sensible game. RAVENS WIN!!!

Edited January 13 by ALSKAN RAVEN FAN

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

5 hours ago, The Mom Gene said:

I don't know if that was the case.  I just get sick of seeing that pocket collapse and people getting to Joe all the time.  When you don't see that happening with other teams....  It seems as though some of those guys have all day long.

True statement @The Mom Gene

Edited January 13 by ALSKAN RAVEN FAN