[News] 'Significant' Draft Misses Have Set Ravens Back, But Steve Bisciotti Still Confident

[RaRaRavens]

7 hours ago, TheConquerorWorm said:

Let me try to simplify this so that you can comprehend it (because obviously you don't read the articles about the draft on this site).

Before the draft, the Ravens put together a draft board that ranks every player in the draft (even the "bad boys"). Contrary to your belief, these rankings are not done by Harbaugh - they are done by Oz & Eric based on the input from all of the scouts, coaches and FO staff.

Now, right before the draft, each person is given 1 red star to place next to the name of the player they want the most.

During the draft, Ozzie & DeCosta will move up and down the draft based on where they think their highest rated player will fall. Now, there have been many articles from Byrne, Mink and others that talk specifically about Oz sticking with the Ravens pre-draft rankings (thus the Best Player Available talk). And yes, when given a choice between two similar players, Ozzie may elicit the opinion of Harbaugh, Horitz & Vincent or others but he and Eric make the call.

But despite your claims, I can guarantee Harbaugh never said to Ozzie during the draft to choose a less talented player because he was a "yes man".

Here's my source on this info:
http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Byrne-Identity-Heres-What-Happened-In-Ravens-Draft-Room-Last-Night/c1ae2d9a-63b5-442a-bc41-87689206215a

Now, post your source on "What I did indicate was that we have too often skipped a very talented game changing player, because Harbaugh had "character concerns"." Now, name those talented game changing players. You can't because you are talking out your backside.

I'm very familiar with the articles describing the Ravens' system, but what you conveniently have left out, is that the pre-draft rankings already take into consideration personalities, character concerns, possible off-field issues and other non-football related factors. It has not been revealed how much these factors weigh in compared to football skills and attributes, but considering how often we have skipped players "with concerns" who are much higher on many of the pundits' big boards, I'd say our organisation takes any personality concerns way more seriously than many others.

 

You know, you can try to spin this any way you want, the fact of the matter is that it doesn't matter who puts together our draft board and whose opinion counts more, the fact is that way too often for my personal liking have we skipped on a very talented players in the draft. Not taking risks with talented players who might have, but also might not have once they reach NFL, those "character concerns" has, in my personal opinion, led us to this shortage of game changing play makers we are facing today.

 

The FO has admitted that one of the reason for our troubles is the lack of play makers. But unfortunately they have not opened up about what they think the reason is for that, why haven't our draft picks turned out to be the studs they were hoped to be. Is our scouting, evaluation of prospects and pre-draft ranking process flawed? Or is it that we have been unwilling to take some risks in the draft (like I believe the reason to be)? Or maybe our staff is incapable of coaching these players up? Or we have just been unlucky and drafted a whole bunch of players with very limited talent?

 

Just out of curiosity, what do you think ConquerorWorm, what's the reason we have failed to draft any kind of significant playmakers for many many years now? Because you can't deny that we have not drafted many serious impact players. But please don't get me started with the "we've drafted KO and B.Williams and Juice", they are top of their respective positions but these positions aren't the ones that can carry the entire team and put the game on their backs. I'm sure you know what I mean.  

[TheConquerorWorm]

  On 1/12/2017 at 6:20 PM, TheConquerorWorm said:

Let me try to simplify this so that you can comprehend it (because obviously you don't read the articles about the draft on this site).

Before the draft, the Ravens put together a draft board that ranks every player in the draft (even the "bad boys"). Contrary to your belief, these rankings are not done by Harbaugh - they are done by Oz & Eric based on the input from all of the scouts, coaches and FO staff.

Now, right before the draft, each person is given 1 red star to place next to the name of the player they want the most.

During the draft, Ozzie & DeCosta will move up and down the draft based on where they think their highest rated player will fall. Now, there have been many articles from Byrne, Mink and others that talk specifically about Oz sticking with the Ravens pre-draft rankings (thus the Best Player Available talk). And yes, when given a choice between two similar players, Ozzie may elicit the opinion of Harbaugh, Horitz & Vincent or others but he and Eric make the call.

But despite your claims, I can guarantee Harbaugh never said to Ozzie during the draft to choose a less talented player because he was a "yes man".

Here's my source on this info:
http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Byrne-Identity-Heres-What-Happened-In-Ravens-Draft-Room-Last-Night/c1ae2d9a-63b5-442a-bc41-87689206215a

Now, post your source on "What I did indicate was that we have too often skipped a very talented game changing player, because Harbaugh had "character concerns"." Now, name those talented game changing players. You can't because you are talking out your backside.

I'm very familiar with the articles describing the Ravens' system, but what you conveniently have left out, is that the pre-draft rankings already take into consideration personalities, character concerns, possible off-field issues and other non-football related factors. It has not been revealed how much these factors weigh in compared to football skills and attributes, but considering how often we have skipped players "with concerns" who are much higher on many of the pundits' big boards, I'd say our organisation takes any personality concerns way more seriously than many others.

 

You know, you can try to spin this any way you want, the fact of the matter is that it doesn't matter who puts together our draft board and whose opinion counts more, the fact is that way too often for my personal liking have we skipped on a very talented players in the draft. Not taking risks with talented players who might have, but also might not have once they reach NFL, those "character concerns" has, in my personal opinion, led us to this shortage of game changing play makers we are facing today.

 

The FO has admitted that one of the reason for our troubles is the lack of play makers. But unfortunately they have not opened up about what they think the reason is for that, why haven't our draft picks turned out to be the studs they were hoped to be. Is our scouting, evaluation of prospects and pre-draft ranking process flawed? Or is it that we have been unwilling to take some risks in the draft (like I believe the reason to be)? Or maybe our staff is incapable of coaching these players up? Or we have just been unlucky and drafted a whole bunch of players with very limited talent?

 

Just out of curiosity, what do you think ConquerorWorm, what's the reason we have failed to draft any kind of significant playmakers for many many years now? Because you can't deny that we have not drafted many serious impact players. But please don't get me started with the "we've drafted KO and B.Williams and Juice", they are top of their respective positions but these positions aren't the ones that can carry the entire team and put the game on their backs. I'm sure you know what I mean.  

Back pedal, back pedal.

So now you're saying it's not Harbaugh's fault and he doesn't control what players we draft? Of course players are going to get bumped down due to off-field concerns, medical concerns, etc but it's not because of the HC as you claimed. It's a solid, proven philosophy of the Ravens organization (and millions of successful businesses) - The best predictor of future performance is past performance. Sure, there are exceptions to the rule like Honey Badger. But for every one of those, I can name the Johnny Manziel, Josh Gordon, Justin Blackmon, Aldon Smith, Greg Hardy's of the NFL. Are you going to invest the future of your franchise on that risk? And after the Ray Rice, Bernard Pierce, Terrence Cody off-season, Stevie B & Co. are going to take those concerns more seriously than others.

Stanley is a play-maker - franchise LT are not easy to find. CJ Mosley is a stud LB and a play-maker (i guess you didn't see those INT). Both are serious impact players.

Again, you say we've passed on all these play-makers but you don't name them.

Now, if you're talking about RB & WR - that's another issue. The bust rates on those players are about the highest (especially WR). For every OBJ you name, I can name the Kevin Whites, DGB, etc. To mitigate the bust factor, you need to draft in the Top 15. The Ravens have only once in many, many years drafted that high (and nailed it with Stanley.). It's also an organizational philosophy - the game is won in the trenches on both sides of the ball and the Ravens draft accordingly (as do the Pats, the Packers, the Seahawks, the Broncos, etc). Zeke & Dak are good but it's the o-line that makes them work. What have play-makers Dez, AP, Mike Evans, Darrell Revis, Patrick Peterson, OBJ, Todd Gurley, David Johnson, AJ Green, LeVeon Bell, Antonio Brown, etc won? Nothing.

Only 15% of all players drafted become perennial starters. So, given the average draft of 240 players, that's 36 players in the entire draft become starters between all 32 teams. That's an average bust rate of 85%. It's not a flawed system of evaluation, scouting, etc - the draft is a low percentage chance.

Part of the problem is perception. You think if a guy is drafted in the 1st Round, he should be an impact starter, however, the odds & history say that's the complete opposite. When the odds say the Ravens should only get 1 starter from the draft and Oz gets 4 (Stanley, Lewis, Dixon & Young) that's a damn good draft.

[RaRaRavens]

5 hours ago, TheConquerorWorm said:

Back pedal, back pedal.

So now you're saying it's not Harbaugh's fault and he doesn't control what players we draft? Of course players are going to get bumped down due to off-field concerns, medical concerns, etc but it's not because of the HC as you claimed. It's a solid, proven philosophy of the Ravens organization (and millions of successful businesses) - The best predictor of future performance is past performance. Sure, there are exceptions to the rule like Honey Badger. But for every one of those, I can name the Johnny Manziel, Josh Gordon, Justin Blackmon, Aldon Smith, Greg Hardy's of the NFL. Are you going to invest the future of your franchise on that risk? And after the Ray Rice, Bernard Pierce, Terrence Cody off-season, Stevie B & Co. are going to take those concerns more seriously than others.

Stanley is a play-maker - franchise LT are not easy to find. CJ Mosley is a stud LB and a play-maker (i guess you didn't see those INT). Both are serious impact players.

Again, you say we've passed on all these play-makers but you don't name them.

Now, if you're talking about RB & WR - that's another issue. The bust rates on those players are about the highest (especially WR). For every OBJ you name, I can name the Kevin Whites, DGB, etc. To mitigate the bust factor, you need to draft in the Top 15. The Ravens have only once in many, many years drafted that high (and nailed it with Stanley.). It's also an organizational philosophy - the game is won in the trenches on both sides of the ball and the Ravens draft accordingly (as do the Pats, the Packers, the Seahawks, the Broncos, etc). Zeke & Dak are good but it's the o-line that makes them work. What have play-makers Dez, AP, Mike Evans, Darrell Revis, Patrick Peterson, OBJ, Todd Gurley, David Johnson, AJ Green, LeVeon Bell, Antonio Brown, etc won? Nothing.

Only 15% of all players drafted become perennial starters. So, given the average draft of 240 players, that's 36 players in the entire draft become starters between all 32 teams. That's an average bust rate of 85%. It's not a flawed system of evaluation, scouting, etc - the draft is a low percentage chance.

Part of the problem is perception. You think if a guy is drafted in the 1st Round, he should be an impact starter, however, the odds & history say that's the complete opposite. When the odds say the Ravens should only get 1 starter from the draft and Oz gets 4 (Stanley, Lewis, Dixon & Young) that's a damn good draft.

No back pedaling. Of course Oz makes the decisions based on the draft board, but that does not change my point - I believe Harbaugh has much bigger influence on that draft board than you seem to think. At the end of the day, he is the one who has to work with drafted players day in and day out. So to say that his preferences regarding players are not taken into consideration or matter very little is foolish.

 

I won't waste any more of my time trying to explain, how your long list of drastic examples with nitpicked poster boys of troubled players and high profile draft busts is not what I meant. You seem to be a smart guy, so you must be choosing not to get what I'm saying I guess.

 

But as to your list of play makers who have supposedly "won nothing" (I hope you see the painful irony of many players on that list playing in the playoffs during the next couple of days while our team is watching the playoffs from their couch), answer me this - what have our main players, e.g. Mosley, Stanley, B.Williams, Juice, Wagner etc., won? NOTHING. Outside of Flacco, Yanda, Suggs, Smith and the Wolfpack, who won the super bowl with the "Old Regime", no one on this team has won anything. So if all these players on our roster are such great franchise cornerstones of elite superstars, why haven't they even been to the playoffs more than once??

 

It's funny that you indicate that our recent drafts have been actually solid and sugar cote the massive below par performance of most picks, when even Biscotti himself just admitted that our recent drafts have been rather disappointing. But I guess you know better than the owner of this team, right?