[News] 'Significant' Draft Misses Have Set Ravens Back, But Steve Bisciotti Still Confident

[good_n_purple]

I have no doubt in my mind that Mr. Biscotti is doing everything in his best judgement to make this team succeed.

We the fans are always way more impatient than the ownership. That's probably the fundamental reason most of us would be crappy at running an NFL team. Cause we've seen what changing the FO every other year does to a team from Browns. 

That's why I was actually relieved by Biscotti's press conference. Despite his cool demeanor, it seemed he too was growing weary of the same recurring issues year after year. Now there should be at least a fire under Harbaugh&Co's collective arses.

That said, I don't have much fate that Harbaugh will change enough to save this team. I believe that the issues since our SB win have been more profound than not having good enough OC or being short a solid WR. Harbaugh's head coaching philosophy has led us to having a team of "safe" great character players, who are easy to coach for Harbaugh and won't question him, but also have relatively low ceiling and not much talent or passion (there are, of course, exceptions). We have not taken risks with talented players or "bad boys" or players who might have some character concerns but are fierce in their game. We have lost our edge, our competitiveness (especially now with Smith Sr. gone), our fire, our nastiness. 

This is just one manifestation of Harbaugh's coaching philosophy, but one of the most evident ones. And that won't most likely change as long as Harbaugh is the HC.

Yanda is the only guy on the team with talent and an "edge".

[good_n_purple]

  1 hour ago, Purple Dawg 96 said:

Draft picks have nothing to do with why the Ravens are not in the playoffs! The Ravens have a birds eye for talent and are respected around the league in doing so! Wish they get some Ohio State Buckeyes tho Lol but If you question Ozzie and Co. "KICK ROCKS" please! I know one position that needs to be upgraded and we wouldn't have these problems!

Really? We've been SO bad at drafting for a while. How on earth can that have nothing to do with us missing the playoffs?

Agree! There is a talent vacuum on the team. How did we get here? Poor drafts. What do teams depend on to play at a high level? Playmakers! What are the Ravens devoid of since Ray and Ed left? Playmakers. Seems like a simple equation.

[zing21042]

  2 hours ago, TheConquerorWorm said:

  4 hours ago, sizzlingdoom said:

  12 hours ago, whobilly said:

We likely will be adding Correa to the list next year. A 2nd round pick who is a special teams player at best.

there are so many names to add to that list.

Matt Elam
Perriman
Arthur Brown
Upshaw
Cody
Ed Dickson
Kindle
Jah Reid
Brooks
Carl Davis
Maxx Williams
KC

All 1rst, 2nd, and 3rd round picks. Not only are none of them even close to sniffing pro bowl talent, but most of them can't even contribute to a win or stay in the league. This is just the past 7 years. Coincidentally since Harbaugh put in his wonderful influence of drafting "high character and high IQ football players" GREAT. Don't know why this AWFUL staff is still "leading" the Ravens. It's discouraging at best. And yeah, awesome time to raise ticket prices. I laughed so hard out loud when I saw that and couldn't wait to read the comments

Name another team that doesn't have as many if not more "busts".....

Again, learn the football business - the HC has little to no impact on the players we draft.

Sounds good, I'll go through the first 3 rounds of 31 NFL teams of the last 7 years and check that for you. No I won't. But I would bet maybe half the teams half whiffed like we have the past 7 years, give or take a few teams. I'm not gonna waste my time and find out what teams, but we both know there are a handful of teams that have drafted significantly better than us the past 7 years. 7 years. Thats a long time. That's left us as a mediocre team. No way around that. Just wondering what happened to the "in ozzie we trust". Haven't heard that in about a decade.

" again, learn the business" LOL, ok tough guy! LOL You are the ignorant one if you think Harbaugh has had little to no impact on our drafting. Every franchise does it differently. lol wake up

The whole discussion on "draft whiffs" is rather short sighted. Think about it. Not including undrafted free agents ( 436 players), each year there is an absolute minimum of 224 rookies drafted (actually 253 in 2016). Given a 53 man roster and 32 teams there are collectively 1696 players on the active rosters.

Strictly by the numbers, over a period of 3 years (just enough time for a decent rookie to become a good/outstanding player or be deemed a "bust"), collectively the NFL teams have drafted 45% of the total number of players in all of national football (again not including the 1300 UDFA). That should say something. "According to the NFL Players Association the average career length is about 3.3 years. The NFL claims that the average career is about 6 years." Either way it suggests that most of the new draftees suck when they get to pro ball. It also suggests that picking the right players is just as much a crap shoot as it is experience.

The median age of members of the NFL (based on team) is 26.16 yrs old. Assuming players graduate at 22 yrs of age...it all fits. Most younger players don't last long; not from injury but because they suck.

In the end, I will pick passion over college records. Passion breeds records; not the other way. I would rather have Steve Smith's passion to play good and hard football each and every week than to have Perriman's speed and college records. You can teach good fundamentals; but the passion to play and play hard comes from inside and will eventually distinguish a good player from one that will not be in the league by the 3rd-4th year. I am not here to question whether or not Pita is worth the money...but the tenacity to work hard, come back and play well is what to look for in a player. Same thing with Steve Smith. I shutter to think what our record would have looked like had they not come back to play. Tom Brady was a 6th round draft pick. Ever see him on the sidelines after a botched play...he is livid....banging heads...throwing helmets, etc. Ever see Flacco....he mopes to the bench and sits there until the next time the offense take the field. Hell, he can't even run a decent 2 minute offense because of lack of passion. He wastes more time being "cool" then running the offense

Anyway, JMHO

[whobilly]

  13 hours ago, whobilly said:

  13 hours ago, Crusader said:

The future of the Ravens are riding on the next few drafts since they have little cap space with their "market" paid QB. Another reason I like SSS, when he got paid he never let off the gas peddle.

So Ryan Fitzpatrick or EJ Manuel is the answer I'm guessing?

What is that suppossed to mean? LOL nice argument. Bottom line is Joe played better than maybe 4 or 5 qbs in the league this year. There are only 2 qbs that have a higher annual salary. He needs to pick it up big time. And not a good signing by the front office. Discussion over

I'm sure you felt the same way when the confetti was dropping down in New Orleans. It's a QB driven league. Yes, Flacco has to play better but you have to pay the going rate or look at your options. Ravens Fans would have gone APE crap if they let Joe walk after the SB VICTORY. DISCUSSION OVER!

[sizzlingdoom]

  1 hour ago, sizzlingdoom said:

  1 hour ago, Purple Dawg 96 said:

Draft picks have nothing to do with why the Ravens are not in the playoffs! The Ravens have a birds eye for talent and are respected around the league in doing so! Wish they get some Ohio State Buckeyes tho Lol but If you question Ozzie and Co. "KICK ROCKS" please! I know one position that needs to be upgraded and we wouldn't have these problems!

Really? We've been SO bad at drafting for a while. How on earth can that have nothing to do with us missing the playoffs?

Agree! There is a talent vacuum on the team. How did we get here? Poor drafts. What do teams depend on to play at a high level? Playmakers! What are the Ravens devoid of since Ray and Ed left? Playmakers. Seems like a simple equation.

If we don't draft a play making corner in the first or second this year I'll lose my mind. There are so many corners worthy of first round picks this year. Most in a draft class I've seen. I really like Quincy Wilson, Tabor, Sidney Jones, and Desmond King. I really hope we draft one of those 4. And there are at least 3-5 other corners that are being projected for the first round, already. Jimmy needs to get healthy, and that's a huge IF, but I actually have faith in that. A true shut down + Tavon + Jimmy = exactly what the ravens need. Adding a shut down corner and a Pro bowl center-through the draft is fine (FA list looks bad) would be the 2 best things for the ravens in this offseason imo.

[Rav'n Maniac]

Ozzie has only one position that truly haunts him and that is WR, imo. He has never been able to hit on a young, true playmaking receiver and I believe they really need to take a hard look for the reasons why and address them.

[sizzlingdoom]

Everybody's on the hot seat this year ( except Yanda, Weddle, and Tucker). Players and coaches. Could make for an interesting year. Regardless, it all starts with getting rid of a bunch of under performing veterans, and nailing rounds 1 and 2. Hopefully with a CB and WR/C. Didn't check the exact numbers but looked like there's about 24 mil we can free up with people I would cut. I don't expect us to sign somebody like Gilmore or Berry but I sure hope we try. Berry, Weddle, Jimmy, Tavon, and a first round corner....that is what I'm talking about. I'd be surprised if Berry gets away from KC though. Maybe Trumaine Johnson is a good option. I think so. This season was probably the most painful season I've ever watched. Probably cuz it seems like we were playing with one arm tied behind our backs. Beyond frustrating. But all that said, I'll still be just as excited for the draft and next year. CANT WAIT

[sizzlingdoom]

We hired Roman! Don't know if this just sounds too obvious but I think this is a great thing for the run game. I know a lot of you are probably hoping he replaced Castillo but I'm sure Harbaugh kept him around. I think this is a great hire and a step in the right direction. I just really hope we dont waste that first pick on Cook. Fornette would be tempting. Alright. This is a step in the right direction

[Chuckx999]

Clean house and we still get an 8 & 8 team, but one with a strong future. Ozzie's 16 year dream of a super receiver has just been a bad dream for the Ravens. Draft the player we NEED NOW not the old best player at any position on the board. His version of the best player has just been pure crap.
Stick with players in the top 25 teams and just a peek at other teams. Look at Bama's and Clemson's defense, there is at least 7 starters and 4-5 on offense.
Get real players who can start NOW. What's with the guy we signed from Navy?? Why sign them if you can't play them.
Cut the OLD SLOW guys, save cap money and get young fast players.

[RavensDieHard21]

1 hour ago, sizzlingdoom said:

Everybody's on the hot seat this year ( except Yanda, Weddle, and Tucker). Players and coaches. Could make for an interesting year. Regardless, it all starts with getting rid of a bunch of under performing veterans, and nailing rounds 1 and 2. Hopefully with a CB and WR/C. Didn't check the exact numbers but looked like there's about 24 mil we can free up with people I would cut. I don't expect us to sign somebody like Gilmore or Berry but I sure hope we try. Berry, Weddle, Jimmy, Tavon, and a first round corner....that is what I'm talking about. I'd be surprised if Berry gets away from KC though. Maybe Trumaine Johnson is a good option. I think so. This season was probably the most painful season I've ever watched. Probably cuz it seems like we were playing with one arm tied behind our backs. Beyond frustrating. But all that said, I'll still be just as excited for the draft and next year. CANT WAIT

Johnson is a slightly above average CB that is set to be the #1 FA corner. But LA also let Jenkins go bc they though he was better so either way he is going to get paid +$50 million, I'd rather pick a corner within the first two rounds who might be just as good if not better that will be cheaper.

[RavensDieHard21]

12 minutes ago, sizzlingdoom said:

We hired Roman! Don't know if this just sounds too obvious but I think this is a great thing for the run game. I know a lot of you are probably hoping he replaced Castillo but I'm sure Harbaugh kept him around. I think this is a great hire and a step in the right direction. I just really hope we dont waste that first pick on Cook. Fornette would be tempting. Alright. This is a step in the right direction

Roman is great with scheming formations for the run game. We grab a premier center. Throw in a more experienced Lewis at guard and our line will go. Dixon and west are both good backs. Id take Fournette only if he was there at 16 because it is value, but I wouldn't trade up to make it happen. 

[ByTheBay]

2 hours ago, zing21042 said:

The whole discussion on "draft whiffs" is rather short sighted. Think about it. Not including undrafted free agents ( 436 players), each year there is an absolute minimum of 224 rookies drafted (actually 253 in 2016). Given a 53 man roster and 32 teams there are collectively 1696 players on the active rosters.

Strictly by the numbers, over a period of 3 years (just enough time for a decent rookie to become a good/outstanding player or be deemed a "bust"), collectively the NFL teams have drafted 45% of the total number of players in all of national football (again not including the 1300 UDFA). That should say something. "According to the NFL Players Association the average career length is about 3.3 years. The NFL claims that the average career is about 6 years." Either way it suggests that most of the new draftees suck when they get to pro ball. It also suggests that picking the right players is just as much a crap shoot as it is experience.

The median age of members of the NFL (based on team) is 26.16 yrs old. Assuming players graduate at 22 yrs of age...it all fits. Most younger players don't last long; not from injury but because they suck.
 

This. This should be saved and used as the end all be all argument to anyone complaining about ozzies draft record. I have been too lazy to do the research for myself and here you have it. The majority of draft picks including high draft picks don't live up to expectations. Fans want results and don't always see the big picture. Thank you 

[RavensDieHard21]

2 minutes ago, ByTheBay said:

This. This should be saved and used as the end all be all argument to anyone complaining about ozzies draft record. I have been too lazy to do the research for myself and here you have it. The majority of draft picks including high draft picks don't live up to expectations. Fans want results and don't always see the big picture. Thank you 

When your nickname is the Wizard of Oz and many deem you the best GM in the league, one whose first two draft picks ever are both going to be Hall of Famers, there are high expectations. 

The average GM might get sucked into all these numbers but Ozzie has defied the odds for years. That is why we expect more. Some of the picks in recent year I even thought looked great, but many turned out below average. It does not help picking at the back end of the rounds either. 

When oz gets an early pick he is almost guaranteed to hit it out of the park. Both our early picks since 08', look to be great players--Mosley and Stanley. I just wish he was more aggressive in getting the players this team wants. 

[RailBird]

It is exactly like Bisciotti said. It pretty much all comes down to luck. There are maybe one or two players in each year's draft that are guaranteed hits. Every other player comes down to luck. Don't look any further than Justin Tucker. Went undrafted and ends up being the most accurate kicker ever.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

  15 hours ago, whobilly said:

We likely will be adding Correa to the list next year. A 2nd round pick who is a special teams player at best.

Frustratingly he hasn't even done that! I mean really? The playbook is too big for him? Ugh...I would love to know if the success rate of the scouts who push these picks is looked at. If the someone advocates for a loser after loser maybe he should be seeking opportunities outside of the Ravens organization. Accountability is good.

You do realize Correa switched positions, right? So, by your logic the Browns shouldve just dropped Pryor year 1.

So, thats what you would have advised them to do right? When he couldnt get on the field his 1st year of learning a new position - hes just a bust. Bet youd love to have Pryor here now.

Do you like having Jimmy Smith now? Didnt do much of anything years 1 and 2 bc of injury and poor play. Bust right!

Go play fantasy or Madden.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

  15 hours ago, whobilly said:

We likely will be adding Correa to the list next year. A 2nd round pick who is a special teams player at best.

there are so many names to add to that list.

Matt Elam
Perriman
Arthur Brown
Upshaw
Cody
Ed Dickson
Kindle
Jah Reid
Brooks
Carl Davis
Maxx Williams
KC

All 1rst, 2nd, and 3rd round picks. Not only are none of them even close to sniffing pro bowl talent, but most of them can't even contribute to a win or stay in the league. This is just the past 7 years. Coincidentally since Harbaugh put in his wonderful influence of drafting "high character and high IQ football players" GREAT. Don't know why this AWFUL staff is still "leading" the Ravens. It's discouraging at best. And yeah, awesome time to raise ticket prices. I laughed so hard out loud when I saw that and couldn't wait to read the comments

You cant put Perriman, Davis, Maxx or KC. Not enough info yet.

btw if youre calling Perriman a wasted pick let me give you some other receivers you would have called busts after their first years:

Cris Carter
TO
Demeryius Thomas
Steve Smith
Antonio Brown
Reggie Wayne
OchoCinco
Vincent Jackson
Hines Ward
Dez Bryant
Alshon Jeffery
Michael Irvin

He had a better 1st year than everyone on that list except for Dez and Irvin. Had almost IDENTICAL stats to Terrell Owens first season - you know, the guy going into the HoF this year who is 2nd all time in pretty much every statistical category.

So, just stop. Youre welcome to an opinion - but its an uninformed and wrong one. Share it if you want, but it just makes you look bad.

Most players dont do well years 1 and 2.

[Drew P]

16 hours ago, whobilly said:

We likely will be adding Correa to the list next year. A 2nd round pick who is a special teams player at best.

I already added him in my book. I mean there's no way he pushes Orr for a starting role...whiff

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

  16 hours ago, whobilly said:

We likely will be adding Correa to the list next year. A 2nd round pick who is a special teams player at best.

I already added him in my book. I mean there's no way he pushes Orr for a starting role...whiff

You do realize Orr could be gone as soon as this offseason. We can tender him, but someone else can offer him a big contract.

[RavensDieHard21]

15 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

You do realize Orr could be gone as soon as this offseason. We can tender him, but someone else can offer him a big contract.

That's why I would be extremely disappointed if we did not give him a second round tender or work out a deal with the cap room we will have. He is great in coverage, solid in he run game, instinctive and wraps up well. We Can't allow our great position groups to keep be broken up.  

[JonnyBaltimore]

5 hours ago, sizzlingdoom said:

Sorry, I strongly disagree. I did look at NE. They picked multiple pro bowlers in the first over that span while moving down almost every single year and picking up extra 2nds and 3rds. I'm not comparing to anyone either. I understand a lot of teams whiff. I don't care about other teams. I hold our team to higher standard than just about every team in the league. Why would I compare our franchise to the browns and jags and such. Plus, there really aren't that many crappy franchises anymore. I just expect us to draft better.

Well you have to compare with other franchises because you have to benchmark your performance. That is how you measure performance no matter how you look at it. That's what Steve means when you grade on a "curve" (i.e. a bell curve). You can't just expect them to draft studs in the top 3 rounds every year, 100% of the time. It is unrealistic. You also have to look at the draft class because if the whole draft class produces 32-64 decent players, it's a bit unrealistic to expect us to nail 4 picks. Just go look at the whole 2013 draft class.

People who criticize Ozzie for drafting haven't looked deep enough (1) into the draft class or (2) into the comparison on how other teams draft. It is like they expect every player to be stars in the league.

Ozzie has nailed his Top 20 draft picks (Ronnie Stanley (6), CJ Mosley (17), Joe Flacco (19), Haloti Ngata (12)... Suggs, Reed etc)

[good_n_purple]

  2 hours ago, sizzlingdoom said:

We hired Roman! Don't know if this just sounds too obvious but I think this is a great thing for the run game. I know a lot of you are probably hoping he replaced Castillo but I'm sure Harbaugh kept him around. I think this is a great hire and a step in the right direction. I just really hope we dont waste that first pick on Cook. Fornette would be tempting. Alright. This is a step in the right direction

Roman is great with scheming formations for the run game. We grab a premier center. Throw in a more experienced Lewis at guard and our line will go. Dixon and west are both good backs. Id take Fournette only if he was there at 16 because it is value, but I wouldn't trade up to make it happen. 

Make Roman work with what we have and earn his money. Cornerback please.

[JonnyBaltimore]

5 hours ago, sizzlingdoom said:

And how on earth can you say Elam is the only miss?????

Elam-obvious miss, directly cost us a chance at a ring with his inability to tackle
KC- early yes, but a lot of us think he looks like our next Arthur Brown. Or maybe he'll be good enough to play special teams eventually
Maxx Williams was a second rounder we traded up for- ZERO production
Brooks- ZERO production and cut
Carl Davis-ZERO production
Jah Reid- ZERO production
Ed Dickson- caught a couple passes but had awful hands and not much production at all
Perriman- still early but never should've been picked in the first. I got in trouble at woodstocks when they picked him cuz I spit Beer on the TV in disbelief- on accident.
Arthur Brown- Zero production after what, 4 years? think we traded up for him too
Upshaw- you're telling me we spent a high second on someone hoping that all he could do is be a situational run stopper, I dont think so
Cody- bust
Kindle-bust, albeit through injury I believe, the stair accident I think

How is Elam the only miss on that list?

Elam is the only one as a first rounder. Therefore, there are higher expectations. 2nd rounders have less expectations and 3rd rounders less.

The only ''busts'' I see in your list are Elam (2013 1st rounder), Brown (2013 2nd rounder), Cody (2010 2nd rounder), Kindle (2010 2nd rounder) 

Brooks (2015 3rd rounder). The rest it is too early.

 

2013 was a bad draft class, go look at it. You obviously have not.

 

[The Beak]

Losing brings out the worst of us fans,. I HATE to lose at anything, but I really hate losing and not seeing anything done to correct it. Yes we have totally missed on some picks (Kindle, Brown, Elam, etc.. ) but some picks are not being coached up, scheme is wrong, Pees is not the answer to coach some nastiness into these young players, TheWig is not the answer to move BPerriman forward top a No1 WR, Harbaugh is playing with fire by retaining these 2 below avg coordinators, Harbaugh doesn't have Ray or ED to help him out and it shows, Steve B. we trust you, but another year of lackluster coaching and underdeveloped players and you might lose your fanbase....

[good_n_purple]

  5 hours ago, good_n_purple said:

  18 hours ago, whobilly said:

We likely will be adding Correa to the list next year. A 2nd round pick who is a special teams player at best.

Frustratingly he hasn't even done that! I mean really? The playbook is too big for him? Ugh...I would love to know if the success rate of the scouts who push these picks is looked at. If the someone advocates for a loser after loser maybe he should be seeking opportunities outside of the Ravens organization. Accountability is good.

You do realize Correa switched positions, right? So, by your logic the Browns shouldve just dropped Pryor year 1.

So, thats what you would have advised them to do right? When he couldnt get on the field his 1st year of learning a new position - hes just a bust. Bet youd love to have Pryor here now.

Do you like having Jimmy Smith now? Didnt do much of anything years 1 and 2 bc of injury and poor play. Bust right!

Go play fantasy or Madden.

Fact: Arthur Brown, Fact: Sergio Kindle, Fact: Dan Cody. After the stellar results from these high picks forgive my incredulity regarding Correa. A 2nd round draft pick should not be a healthy scratch. Either it is poor coaching or the inability to grasp. If he is a Will or Mike figure it out and get him on the field. Not everyone can step in from day one obviously, but I expect highly paid football professionals to know what they have drafted. So far Correa is suspect based on the info available no matter what YOU say. And you can keep your bullying to yourself dude. Don't be a jerk.

[Tdot.to.Bmore]

  6 hours ago, sizzlingdoom said:

And how on earth can you say Elam is the only miss?????

Elam-obvious miss, directly cost us a chance at a ring with his inability to tackle
KC- early yes, but a lot of us think he looks like our next Arthur Brown. Or maybe he'll be good enough to play special teams eventually
Maxx Williams was a second rounder we traded up for- ZERO production
Brooks- ZERO production and cut
Carl Davis-ZERO production
Jah Reid- ZERO production
Ed Dickson- caught a couple passes but had awful hands and not much production at all
Perriman- still early but never should've been picked in the first. I got in trouble at woodstocks when they picked him cuz I spit Beer on the TV in disbelief- on accident.
Arthur Brown- Zero production after what, 4 years? think we traded up for him too
Upshaw- you're telling me we spent a high second on someone hoping that all he could do is be a situational run stopper, I dont think so
Cody- bust
Kindle-bust, albeit through injury I believe, the stair accident I think

How is Elam the only miss on that list?

Elam is the only one as a first rounder. Therefore, there are higher expectations. 2nd rounders have less expectations and 3rd rounders less.

The only ''busts'' I see in your list are Elam (2013 1st rounder), Brown (2013 2nd rounder), Cody (2010 2nd rounder), Kindle (2010 2nd rounder) 

Brooks (2015 3rd rounder). The rest it is too early.

 

2013 was a bad draft class, go look at it. You obviously have not.

 

2013 wasnt bad, it just sucks that we missed on our two top picks. If you look at that draft overall it was decent. We got one of the best NT in the league in the 3rd. A pro bowl Full back and an above average RT in Wagner. Also i think we gave up on John Simon to early, hes been playing well in Houston and Jenson has been a capable back up. So no it was not a bad draft class. If williams, wagner and juice were are first 3 picks then you would not being saying that.

[JonnyBaltimore]

2 hours ago, Tdot.to.Bmore said:

2013 wasnt bad, it just sucks that we missed on our two top picks. If you look at that draft overall it was decent. We got one of the best NT in the league in the 3rd. A pro bowl Full back and an above average RT in Wagner. Also i think we gave up on John Simon to early, hes been playing well in Houston and Jenson has been a capable back up. So no it was not a bad draft class. If williams, wagner and juice were are first 3 picks then you would not being saying that.

2013 for the whole NFL was a bad draft class. Thats why a miss with Elam in the first and Brown in the second is a bit misguided because there were very few good players in that draft. 2013 for the Baltimore Ravens was a good draft in totality given the poor players available.

[LaredoTx_RavensFan]

The NFL Draft is a scientific process that will certainly have hits and misses. There were a few years where the Ravens selected at the bottom of the rounds due to their success. In any case the Ravens have done an excellent job overall in the draft. "In Ozzie We Trust"...Go Ravens!!!!!

[TheConquerorWorm]

  14 hours ago, TheConquerorWorm said:

Harbaugh has little to no impact on the players we draft.

And it doesn't take a genius to figure out after the Ray Rice, Pierce, Cody off-season that the OWNER not Harbaugh probably instructed Oz & company not to draft those "bad boy" players with domestic violence or drug problems.

What players are you talking about? Noah Spence, who did little to nothing this year and just had major shoulder surgery? Or are you still mad we didn't draft Tunsil to be our average LG (like he is on the Dolphins). Maybe you mean Dorial Green Beckham or Randy Gregory?

You've obviously never played football in the higher levels if you think for one second that any player drafted is not tough, talented or passionate.

It's a clown argument.....

Ofcourse Harbaugh has impact on the draft, otherwise he would not be in the war room on draft day. Oz makes the final decision, but his decision is strongly impacted by the opinion of HC and the way the HC wants to run this team. Stop being stupid in front of everyone.

 

As to the players drafted, not once did I say that we should pick wife beaters, drug addicts or convicted felons. I don't even mean that we have to draft drama queens like OBJ. What I did indicate was that we have too often skipped a very talented game changing player, because Harbaugh had "character concerns". These players had no criminal past, but they were uncomfortable for Harbaugh, because they might think too much and express their different opinions the way Ed Reed did. Harbaugh doesn't want that, he wants conveniently docile players. That means, unfortunately, a lack of any kind of passion or competitiveness. 

Let me try to simplify this so that you can comprehend it (because obviously you don't read the articles about the draft on this site).

Before the draft, the Ravens put together a draft board that ranks every player in the draft (even the "bad boys"). Contrary to your belief, these rankings are not done by Harbaugh - they are done by Oz & Eric based on the input from all of the scouts, coaches and FO staff.

Now, right before the draft, each person is given 1 red star to place next to the name of the player they want the most.

During the draft, Ozzie & DeCosta will move up and down the draft based on where they think their highest rated player will fall. Now, there have been many articles from Byrne, Mink and others that talk specifically about Oz sticking with the Ravens pre-draft rankings (thus the Best Player Available talk). And yes, when given a choice between two similar players, Ozzie may elicit the opinion of Harbaugh, Horitz & Vincent or others but he and Eric make the call.

But despite your claims, I can guarantee Harbaugh never said to Ozzie during the draft to choose a less talented player because he was a "yes man".

Here's my source on this info:
http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Byrne-Identity-Heres-What-Happened-In-Ravens-Draft-Room-Last-Night/c1ae2d9a-63b5-442a-bc41-87689206215a

Now, post your source on "What I did indicate was that we have too often skipped a very talented game changing player, because Harbaugh had "character concerns"." Now, name those talented game changing players. You can't because you are talking out your backside.

[WalkingSun]

  16 hours ago, sizzlingdoom said:

  17 hours ago, TheConquerorWorm said:

  18 hours ago, sizzlingdoom said:

  On 12.1.2017 at 0:15 AM, whobilly said:

We likely will be adding Correa to the list next year. A 2nd round pick who is a special teams player at best.

there are so many names to add to that list.

Matt Elam
Perriman
Arthur Brown
Upshaw
Cody
Ed Dickson
Kindle
Jah Reid
Brooks
Carl Davis
Maxx Williams
KC

All 1rst, 2nd, and 3rd round picks. Not only are none of them even close to sniffing pro bowl talent, but most of them can't even contribute to a win or stay in the league. This is just the past 7 years. Coincidentally since Harbaugh put in his wonderful influence of drafting "high character and high IQ football players" GREAT. Don't know why this AWFUL staff is still "leading" the Ravens. It's discouraging at best. And yeah, awesome time to raise ticket prices. I laughed so hard out loud when I saw that and couldn't wait to read the comments

Name another team that doesn't have as many if not more "busts".....

Again, learn the football business - the HC has little to no impact on the players we draft.

Sounds good, I'll go through the first 3 rounds of 31 NFL teams of the last 7 years and check that for you. No I won't. But I would bet maybe half the teams half whiffed like we have the past 7 years, give or take a few teams. I'm not gonna waste my time and find out what teams, but we both know there are a handful of teams that have drafted significantly better than us the past 7 years. 7 years. Thats a long time. That's left us as a mediocre team. No way around that. Just wondering what happened to the "in ozzie we trust". Haven't heard that in about a decade.

" again, learn the business" LOL, ok tough guy! LOL You are the ignorant one if you think Harbaugh has had little to no impact on our drafting. Every franchise does it differently. lol wake up

The whole discussion on "draft whiffs" is rather short sighted. Think about it. Not including undrafted free agents ( 436 players), each year there is an absolute minimum of 224 rookies drafted (actually 253 in 2016). Given a 53 man roster and 32 teams there are collectively 1696 players on the active rosters.

Strictly by the numbers, over a period of 3 years (just enough time for a decent rookie to become a good/outstanding player or be deemed a "bust"), collectively the NFL teams have drafted 45% of the total number of players in all of national football (again not including the 1300 UDFA). That should say something. "According to the NFL Players Association the average career length is about 3.3 years. The NFL claims that the average career is about 6 years." Either way it suggests that most of the new draftees suck when they get to pro ball. It also suggests that picking the right players is just as much a crap shoot as it is experience.

The median age of members of the NFL (based on team) is 26.16 yrs old. Assuming players graduate at 22 yrs of age...it all fits. Most younger players don't last long; not from injury but because they suck.

In the end, I will pick passion over college records. Passion breeds records; not the other way. I would rather have Steve Smith's passion to play good and hard football each and every week than to have Perriman's speed and college records. You can teach good fundamentals; but the passion to play and play hard comes from inside and will eventually distinguish a good player from one that will not be in the league by the 3rd-4th year. I am not here to question whether or not Pita is worth the money...but the tenacity to work hard, come back and play well is what to look for in a player. Same thing with Steve Smith. I shutter to think what our record would have looked like had they not come back to play. Tom Brady was a 6th round draft pick. Ever see him on the sidelines after a botched play...he is livid....banging heads...throwing helmets, etc. Ever see Flacco....he mopes to the bench and sits there until the next time the offense take the field. Hell, he can't even run a decent 2 minute offense because of lack of passion. He wastes more time being "cool" then running the offense

Anyway, JMHO

Yeeesss ... i totally agree. PASSION is what i miss on Flacco since he plays for the Ravens. A QB is/must be a leader, but Flacco looks always like he's got autism. Especially after 3&out (and he had a lot of these). His boddylanguage and facial expression when he goes to the bench is not what i want to see if i would be his teammate. Where is his fire, where is his anger?

For Flacco his admittedly superb play off run to the Super Bowl was like winning the biggest prize in a multi billion lottery - it was his personal big BINGO! After the numbers of his contract were given to the public i knew that this only a little about average talented QB will bring big big problems to the ravens' salary cap for years, and... unfortunately, he will not pay back with superb performance and good stats. And I should be right.

When i hear "we must help Joe to feel more comfortable in the pocket/with the new system and bla bla bla ..." -
i really laugh my head off. When i look at the numbers ($), HE MUST HELP THE TEAM at first!!

It's really a poor truth that this totally overpaid QB will never play as a Pro Bowler, but his teammate J. Tucker (a kicker!!) is the guy who brings continuously points on the board. And he is going to Honolulu and Flacco not.

Sorry, but this was maybe not the main theme here but this was under my nails for years. So finally i signed up into this board today and left this comment.

Greets from a ravens fan from Germany

[sizzlingdoom]

  20 hours ago, RaRaRavens said:

  21 hours ago, TheConquerorWorm said:

Harbaugh has little to no impact on the players we draft.

And it doesn't take a genius to figure out after the Ray Rice, Pierce, Cody off-season that the OWNER not Harbaugh probably instructed Oz & company not to draft those "bad boy" players with domestic violence or drug problems.

What players are you talking about? Noah Spence, who did little to nothing this year and just had major shoulder surgery? Or are you still mad we didn't draft Tunsil to be our average LG (like he is on the Dolphins). Maybe you mean Dorial Green Beckham or Randy Gregory?

You've obviously never played football in the higher levels if you think for one second that any player drafted is not tough, talented or passionate.

It's a clown argument.....

Ofcourse Harbaugh has impact on the draft, otherwise he would not be in the war room on draft day. Oz makes the final decision, but his decision is strongly impacted by the opinion of HC and the way the HC wants to run this team. Stop being stupid in front of everyone.

 

As to the players drafted, not once did I say that we should pick wife beaters, drug addicts or convicted felons. I don't even mean that we have to draft drama queens like OBJ. What I did indicate was that we have too often skipped a very talented game changing player, because Harbaugh had "character concerns". These players had no criminal past, but they were uncomfortable for Harbaugh, because they might think too much and express their different opinions the way Ed Reed did. Harbaugh doesn't want that, he wants conveniently docile players. That means, unfortunately, a lack of any kind of passion or competitiveness. 

Let me try to simplify this so that you can comprehend it (because obviously you don't read the articles about the draft on this site).

Before the draft, the Ravens put together a draft board that ranks every player in the draft (even the "bad boys"). Contrary to your belief, these rankings are not done by Harbaugh - they are done by Oz & Eric based on the input from all of the scouts, coaches and FO staff.

Now, right before the draft, each person is given 1 red star to place next to the name of the player they want the most.

During the draft, Ozzie & DeCosta will move up and down the draft based on where they think their highest rated player will fall. Now, there have been many articles from Byrne, Mink and others that talk specifically about Oz sticking with the Ravens pre-draft rankings (thus the Best Player Available talk). And yes, when given a choice between two similar players, Ozzie may elicit the opinion of Harbaugh, Horitz & Vincent or others but he and Eric make the call.

But despite your claims, I can guarantee Harbaugh never said to Ozzie during the draft to choose a less talented player because he was a "yes man".

Here's my source on this info:
http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Byrne-Identity-Heres-What-Happened-In-Ravens-Draft-Room-Last-Night/c1ae2d9a-63b5-442a-bc41-87689206215a

Now, post your source on "What I did indicate was that we have too often skipped a very talented game changing player, because Harbaugh had "character concerns"." Now, name those talented game changing players. You can't because you are talking out your backside.

well if you can guarantee and if you put websites out there, clearly, yourself, the tough guy, knows it all. I wish you could teach me more