Updated: Greg Roman Sr. Offensive Asst. & TE Coach

[Rav'n Maniac]

7 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Odd that Roman has nothing with run game or OL in his title with Castillo now gone. We have an assistant OL coach but no OL coach. 

And we could've blocked the Castillo move if we wanted. It's a lateral move. Unless his contract was up. But either way it tells me we weren't bringing him back. 

Yeah I researched his contract yesterday and found he was only signed through 2016.

[rmw10]

7 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Odd that Roman has nothing with run game or OL in his title with Castillo now gone. We have an assistant OL coach but no OL coach. 

And we could've blocked the Castillo move if we wanted. It's a lateral move. Unless his contract was up. But either way it tells me we weren't bringing him back. 

It was said that part of Roman's role as the Senior Assistant is going to be game planning, so he'll definitely have his say.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

5 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

It was said that part of Roman's role as the Senior Assistant is going to be game planning, so he'll definitely have his say.

Yea I know the title is more semantics than anything... just thought TE's was an odd choice considering we now don't have a QB or OL coach and he's got experience working with both. 

Tells me we must have good candidates in mind for those positions. 

[rmw10]

1 minute ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Yea I know the title is more semantics than anything... just thought TE's was an odd choice considering we now don't have a QB or OL coach and he's got experience working with both. 

Tells me we must have good candidates in mind for those positions. 

I think they went with TE coach because Roman uses a lot of TEs in his offense, when he actually has them of course.  He's a big proponent of having multiple TEs, especially in blocking situations.  Blocking is where most TEs struggle, so I think they feel he can have an impact in that regard.

[Ravensfan23]

7 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Maybe that's the case but Wagner is 50-50 at the moment, you don't really know the market value. Plenty of times the Ravens have said they've been in contact with FAs who ended up leaving but obviously that's what you have to do with guys you need to retain, you just can't have no contact with them what so ever. Given the reports and how our Run D collapsed, I think the Ravens will do everything in their power to keep Brandon Williams first as a priority, with Wagner coming after. Of course that doesn't mean they can't keep both but it would surprise me if they did. 

I'm under the assumption that Wagner is staying at the moment because of the confidence, but at this moment it wouldn't surprise me if they let him go, I can see them going after someone at LG and move Lewis to RT. I said this in another thread but many of the great OLs in the league aren't particularly strong at RT, they're more built up at LT, Guard and Center. When the Ravens talk about getting more physical with the change at LG, it just somewhat means to me that they have more in mind than making the change at C. 
The Ravens are talking about building a power block scheme  with the addition of Roman and adding some maulers to this OL, I can't help but think that means they want to get more physical there. I think Alex Lewis can certainly play a physical role on the line going by his college tape but I'm not sure if its at LG due to the leverage. Of course this doesn't mean that Lewis can't change the way he plays but he'll have much more freedom to operate and less to improve at kicking out to RT. With that said, if they don't manage to keep Wagner or Williams, it would seriously surprise me if they didn't go hard after a  upper level FA LG in the mold of Lang or Leary. They would have to make upgrades there and the tackle class at FA isn't all that strong. 

You might not know the market value exactly but it's pretty easy to look at the top 10 RTs, see where Wagner falls in and offer him a contract accordingly. Now of course that doesn't mean he'll take it, he may want to be paid as the highest guy. We seen a few guys be allowed to walk because the Ravens wouldn't over pay. If Wagner is set on leaving it's nothing the Ravens can do. 

However that doesn't seem to be the plan. Of course I'm not inside the castle and those meeting but I think if Lewis was the perceived option at RT he would have gotten a long look during the Week 17 game when Wagner was out, but he didn't. When Wagner went out of the NYG game, it was Yanda who the Ravens felt was the best option not Lewis(don't think he was hurt yet?. I'm not saying he won't be a good option at RT, but the Ravens clearly view him as a LG and they believe Wagner is a top RT. I'm pretty sure the Ravens knew what type of oline they wanted to build way before it was made public so if Lewis wasn't much of an option at LG I doubt they'd continue to kind of lock him into that spot next to Stanley for years to come. I have to believe that if Lewis was an option at RT, at someone point even if just subconsciously, they would have mentioned his ability to play RT as something to like about him moving forward. But if I remember correctly everything was about what type of LT he could be. I strongly feel the Ravens feel that with or without Wagner they are set on the left side for the foreseeable future.

Lewis may have been drafted as a OT when kicked inside to OG but it seems like RT is only an option in a emergency, must like Yanda

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

14 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

I think they went with TE coach because Roman uses a lot of TEs in his offense, when he actually has them of course.  He's a big proponent of having multiple TEs, especially in blocking situations.  Blocking is where most TEs struggle, so I think they feel he can have an impact in that regard.

That's good to hear. Definitely an area we need to improve, and doing so could have a big impact on the success of our offense. Most of our TE's struggle with blocking... and i had hoped multiple TE sets would be a big part of our offense going into this past season.

Just made too much sense considering the depth we had at the position (even though it was ravaged by injuries), lack of depth at WR for the most part, and kind of the multiple nature of it since most of our TE's are good pass catchers as well. Hopefully its something we see a lot more of going forward.

[jazz1988]

25 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

It was said that part of Roman's role as the Senior Assistant is going to be game planning, so he'll definitely have his say.

So I guess that means who ever The Ravens bring in or promote to quarterback coach and offensive line coach it would be someone that strictly coaches the position only. Overall they may not have any  involvement with the game planning and for good season since you can't have too many cooks in one kitchen.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

16 minutes ago, jazz1988 said:

So I guess that means who ever The Ravens bring in or promote to quarterback coach and offensive line coach it would be someone that strictly coaches the position only. Overall they may not have any  involvement with the game planning and for good season since you can't have too many cooks in one kitchen.

I'm sure every offensive coach has say in the game plan. Obviously to varying degrees... but if we can bring in an accomplished QB coach i think he'll have say in game planning and the direction of the offense. Especially as he gets to know Joe better through working with him as the season goes on... he'll likely be an extension of Joe's voice in those coaches meetings, just echoing the input and direction that Joe's given himself.

Not saying everyone has equal input, and ultimately the buck stops with Marty - he'll have final say on everything. But i dont see any reason that if we get another experienced, successful coach that they wouldnt take his input.

[jazz1988]

36 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

I'm sure every offensive coach has say in the game plan. Obviously to varying degrees... but if we can bring in an accomplished QB coach i think he'll have say in game planning and the direction of the offense. Especially as he gets to know Joe better through working with him as the season goes on... he'll likely be an extension of Joe's voice in those coaches meetings, just echoing the input and direction that Joe's given himself.

Not saying everyone has equal input, and ultimately the buck stops with Marty - he'll have final say on everything. But i dont see any reason that if we get another experienced, successful coach that they wouldnt take his input.

True and I agree just about every offensive coach has some say in game planning but I like to think the ones that have been the most accomplished and experienced tend to want more control and probably can be harder to work with.

[PurpleCity5]

4 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

You might not know the market value exactly but it's pretty easy to look at the top 10 RTs, see where Wagner falls in and offer him a contract accordingly. Now of course that doesn't mean he'll take it, he may want to be paid as the highest guy. We seen a few guys be allowed to walk because the Ravens wouldn't over pay. If Wagner is set on leaving it's nothing the Ravens can do. 

However that doesn't seem to be the plan. Of course I'm not inside the castle and those meeting but I think if Lewis was the perceived option at RT he would have gotten a long look during the Week 17 game when Wagner was out, but he didn't. When Wagner went out of the NYG game, it was Yanda who the Ravens felt was the best option not Lewis(don't think he was hurt yet?. I'm not saying he won't be a good option at RT, but the Ravens clearly view him as a LG and they believe Wagner is a top RT. I'm pretty sure the Ravens knew what type of oline they wanted to build way before it was made public so if Lewis wasn't much of an option at LG I doubt they'd continue to kind of lock him into that spot next to Stanley for years to come. I have to believe that if Lewis was an option at RT, at someone point even if just subconsciously, they would have mentioned his ability to play RT as something to like about him moving forward. But if I remember correctly everything was about what type of LT he could be. I strongly feel the Ravens feel that with or without Wagner they are set on the left side for the foreseeable future.

Lewis may have been drafted as a OT when kicked inside to OG but it seems like RT is only an option in a emergency, must like Yanda

That's of course under the assumption that we plan on keeping both of them. The presser is confusing because I had the impression that Wagner is staying and Williams is leaving but the reports said the complete opposite. It doesn't add up to me that they plan on keeping both. Either way, in the event that Wagner leaves and Williams stays I think that there couldn't be a better option at RT than Lewis. If both leave, then the team would have to do something via FA at the OL. 

Of course, what we also know is that sometimes you have to take what Biscotti says as a bit of a grain of salt because the Ravens are even throwing smokescreens at pressers.

The Ravens view Wagner as a top RT, but I don't feel like they view him as an elite RT when his play has been up there with the best, I don't recall them putting him in that category. Will they be willing to pay him a $7-8M salary with BW on the block when the run D saw a complete collapse? I don't know, after thinking about it that's a very tough decision to make. Wagner's injuries could drop his value and make it very possible to keep both. 

If I can keep both guys at a relatively close price in terms of a salary per year basis, then I'm keeping BW and using Wagner's money to improve the LG and rely on Lewis to step up at RT. Of course that's just my opinion but many of the top OLs are superior in three places, LT, Guard, and Center. That's just how I feel, maybe the Ravens want to be great across the board all over the OL. 

 

[Ravensfan23]

3 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

That's of course under the assumption that we plan on keeping both of them. The presser is confusing because I had the impression that Wagner is staying and Williams is leaving but the reports said the complete opposite. It doesn't add up to me that they plan on keeping both. Either way, in the event that Wagner leaves and Williams stays I think that there couldn't be a better option at RT than Lewis. If both leave, then the team would have to do something via FA at the OL. 

Of course, what we also know is that sometimes you have to take what Biscotti says as a bit of a grain of salt because the Ravens are even throwing smokescreens at pressers.

The Ravens view Wagner as a top RT, but I don't feel like they view him as an elite RT when his play has been up there with the best, I don't recall them putting him in that category. Will they be willing to pay him a $7-8M salary with BW on the block when the run D saw a complete collapse? I don't know, after thinking about it that's a very tough decision to make. Wagner's injuries could drop his value and make it very possible to keep both. 

If I can keep both guys at a relatively close price in terms of a salary per year basis, then I'm keeping BW and using Wagner's money to improve the LG and rely on Lewis to step up at RT. Of course that's just my opinion but many of the top OLs are superior in three places, LT, Guard, and Center. That's just how I feel, maybe the Ravens want to be great across the board all over the OL. 

 

Weill the thing is, if we can't trust what we heard with out own ears at the presser, we certainly can't trust any reports lol. 

I don't think Wagner will cost 8Mil but I'd definitely be willing to pay him 6.7-7Mil and i'm not sure he gets that much. Wagner has been really good and he's the type of leader going forward that could have a Marshal Yanda type impact on this team going forward. Tough, lead by example and doesn't really need to be "the guy", he just does whatever the team needs him to do and goes about it quietly. I really think he's the type that wouldn't stress the team for every penny and allow them to put money into other positions. Even if he does become the highest paid RT what is that, 7Mil max? For my money the Tackle position is always more important than the LG position even if it's RT. We see strong pass rusher wreck a game far more than dominate interior play. That's not to say that having a top level LG isn't important but right now you have a top 10 player at his position maybe even top 5 and it won't break the bank to keep him. I really don't think it'll be as tough to keep Wagner as people think. 

Brandon Willimas will cost way more than Wagner and i'm not sure his impact is as big as Wagner's. I don't really think there is such a thing as an elite RT, you either have a really good one or you don't. You even said it yourself the perceived better olines in the NFL don't have a great RT, but the flip-side to that is I bet each one of those lines value those RTs just as much as any other position, they just aren't paid well. The Ravens are talking about building a strong run game and Brandon Williams might cost 10Mil. For the same 10Mil you'll be able to sign a top 5-10 RT and the games best FB with change left.  

 

[Willbacker]

On ‎1‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 8:39 AM, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

That's good to hear. Definitely an area we need to improve, and doing so could have a big impact on the success of our offense. Most of our TE's struggle with blocking... and i had hoped multiple TE sets would be a big part of our offense going into this past season.

Just made too much sense considering the depth we had at the position (even though it was ravaged by injuries), lack of depth at WR for the most part, and kind of the multiple nature of it since most of our TE's are good pass catchers as well. Hopefully its something we see a lot more of going forward.

If he can improve the blocking of guys like Maxx and Waller that would be something. Pitta to me if we keep him has to line up on the outside only. Another option to help the running game especially in short situations is the eligible oline guy. Roman is gonna bring a lot to our run game imo.

18 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

That's of course under the assumption that we plan on keeping both of them. The presser is confusing because I had the impression that Wagner is staying and Williams is leaving but the reports said the complete opposite. It doesn't add up to me that they plan on keeping both. Either way, in the event that Wagner leaves and Williams stays I think that there couldn't be a better option at RT than Lewis. If both leave, then the team would have to do something via FA at the OL. 

Of course, what we also know is that sometimes you have to take what Biscotti says as a bit of a grain of salt because the Ravens are even throwing smokescreens at pressers.

The Ravens view Wagner as a top RT, but I don't feel like they view him as an elite RT when his play has been up there with the best, I don't recall them putting him in that category. Will they be willing to pay him a $7-8M salary with BW on the block when the run D saw a complete collapse? I don't know, after thinking about it that's a very tough decision to make. Wagner's injuries could drop his value and make it very possible to keep both. 

If I can keep both guys at a relatively close price in terms of a salary per year basis, then I'm keeping BW and using Wagner's money to improve the LG and rely on Lewis to step up at RT. Of course that's just my opinion but many of the top OLs are superior in three places, LT, Guard, and Center. That's just how I feel, maybe the Ravens want to be great across the board all over the OL. 

 

Not fair to say 3 places and list 4 positions lol but I'm assuming you meaning RG which teams tend to run more that way. So in looking at LG and RT you have 2 completely different situations whereas LG needs to do multiple things like getting to the 2nd level, double teaming, straight blocking or being asked to pull while the RT is more basic in his assignments but a lot of times is left alone on an island either sealing off the edge or drive blocking for the running game and containg the outside on speedy passrushers in the passing game its just not the blind side.

I totally believe Williams is gonna price himself out cuz there's teams with much more money than we got and he's gonna get more than 10 mil a year. Don't kid yourself Wagner gonna be cheaper and probally can be had in the 6 mil range and at the end of the season we had 2 serious weak links in our oline and we need as much continuity as we can. Wagner imo is a do everything RT that's above average at everything and he needs a fair contract and we don't need a bidding war and Lewis can get a complete offseason running at guard but I'm just not sure if he should be a starter or be our 6th man. This is gonna be a very interesting offseason lol.

[PurpleCity5]

15 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

Weill the thing is, if we can't trust what we heard with out own ears at the presser, we certainly can't trust any reports lol. 

I don't think Wagner will cost 8Mil but I'd definitely be willing to pay him 6.7-7Mil and i'm not sure he gets that much. Wagner has been really good and he's the type of leader going forward that could have a Marshal Yanda type impact on this team going forward. Tough, lead by example and doesn't really need to be "the guy", he just does whatever the team needs him to do and goes about it quietly. I really think he's the type that wouldn't stress the team for every penny and allow them to put money into other positions. Even if he does become the highest paid RT what is that, 7Mil max? For my money the Tackle position is always more important than the LG position even if it's RT. We see strong pass rusher wreck a game far more than dominate interior play. That's not to say that having a top level LG isn't important but right now you have a top 10 player at his position maybe even top 5 and it won't break the bank to keep him. I really don't think it'll be as tough to keep Wagner as people think. 

Brandon Willimas will cost way more than Wagner and i'm not sure his impact is as big as Wagner's. I don't really think there is such a thing as an elite RT, you either have a really good one or you don't. You even said it yourself the perceived better olines in the NFL don't have a great RT, but the flip-side to that is I bet each one of those lines value those RTs just as much as any other position, they just aren't paid well. The Ravens are talking about building a strong run game and Brandon Williams might cost 10Mil. For the same 10Mil you'll be able to sign a top 5-10 RT and the games best FB with change left.  

 

I don't see the Ravens keeping both guys, that's just my opinion of it, either its Williams or Wagner. As I've said it might not be too expensive to keep Wagner, but then again it could be, given the nature that it only takes one team to do it. 

I don't want to discount the importance of a RT, however, I think finding a LG who can play at a high level alongside Stanley/Yanda would be a great scenario for this team. Runs up the middle are the most common runs and teams who have a great inside presence at guard run the ball very well there. Of course the C position impacts it a ton and we're bound to make the adjustment there. 

My problem with people being so quick to dismiss Williams because of the potential price tag is the scenario's that can unfold. If I can recall Biscotti said that the defense became just as liable as the offense towards the end of the year. One of the reasons for that is the collapse of the run D. Look at the guys outside of BWill who got pushed back and manhandled, now imagine subtracting BWill from that scenario. That's one to be worried about. The Ravens front office and defense has always made it a priority to stop the run, it just doesn't seem to shock me that they'll try to continue to do that. 

As far as a $10M salary goes, that's possible but Damon Harrison is a very similar player to BWill and he got a 5YR $46M deal at $9M per year, which is a bit above the mark of what BWill would get. I think at $8M it's certainly worth it, but the guaranteed dollars matter plenty. 

 

[PurpleCity5]

3 hours ago, Willbacker said:

Not fair to say 3 places and list 4 positions lol but I'm assuming you meaning RG which teams tend to run more that way. So in looking at LG and RT you have 2 completely different situations whereas LG needs to do multiple things like getting to the 2nd level, double teaming, straight blocking or being asked to pull while the RT is more basic in his assignments but a lot of times is left alone on an island either sealing off the edge or drive blocking for the running game and containg the outside on speedy passrushers in the passing game its just not the blind side.

I totally believe Williams is gonna price himself out cuz there's teams with much more money than we got and he's gonna get more than 10 mil a year. Don't kid yourself Wagner gonna be cheaper and probally can be had in the 6 mil range and at the end of the season we had 2 serious weak links in our oline and we need as much continuity as we can. Wagner imo is a do everything RT that's above average at everything and he needs a fair contract and we don't need a bidding war and Lewis can get a complete offseason running at guard but I'm just not sure if he should be a starter or be our 6th man. This is gonna be a very interesting offseason lol.

When referring to guard, I was referring to the LG and RG positions both. Runs up the middle are the most common runs in the NFL so obviously it order to run it up the middle successfully and have a bully run game you need to be physical and demanding in the guard position, in the Ravens case they need to be more physical and beef up LG and C. Either Alex Lewis beef's himself up or they find someone else to do the job. In a power/run gap scheme, Alex Lewis is going to have to control his man/gap and play with much better leverage and lower the shoulders, among other things he'll have to do. 

I certainly agree that Williams will cost more, but the Ravens have a hard earned tradition of stopping the run as a priority, never have the Ravens gave up 4.0YPC or above in the last 10 years. If it takes $8M-$9M to keep BW than I don't think they will pass on that. If a team massively overpays they probably won't bother. But let's also remind ourselves that BW is a run stopping specialist, not a pass rusher, all or most of the highest paid NT are players who can do both. 

Wagner to me is a guy that Ravens view as an upper level RT, but not elite in that manner. Wagner does a great job of holding his own and making blocks, but I think the Ravens want to be more physical down there and push teams back, I don't think that's Wagner's forte. 

[Willbacker]

27 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

When referring to guard, I was referring to the LG and RG positions both. Runs up the middle are the most common runs in the NFL so obviously it order to run it up the middle successfully and have a bully run game you need to be physical and demanding in the guard position, in the Ravens case they need to be more physical and beef up LG and C. Either Alex Lewis beef's himself up or they find someone else to do the job. In a power/run gap scheme, Alex Lewis is going to have to control his man/gap and play with much better leverage and lower the shoulders, among other things he'll have to do. 

I certainly agree that Williams will cost more, but the Ravens have a hard earned tradition of stopping the run as a priority, never have the Ravens gave up 4.0YPC or above in the last 10 years. If it takes $8M-$9M to keep BW than I don't think they will pass on that. If a team massively overpays they probably won't bother. But let's also remind ourselves that BW is a run stopping specialist, not a pass rusher, all or most of the highest paid NT are players who can do both. 

Wagner to me is a guy that Ravens view as an upper level RT, but not elite in that manner. Wagner does a great job of holding his own and making blocks, but I think the Ravens want to be more physical down there and push teams back, I don't think that's Wagner's forte. 

Basically I'm just worried we'd be weakening a 3rd spot on the line and I'd like to see what Roman and whatever Oline coach we get can do and just too many changes cant be good for improving our run game and protecting Joe and right now staying consistent at the OT positions are more important than a NT where we do have some depth but I definitely understand your concerns.

[Ravensfan23]

3 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

I don't see the Ravens keeping both guys, that's just my opinion of it, either its Williams or Wagner. As I've said it might not be too expensive to keep Wagner, but then again it could be, given the nature that it only takes one team to do it. 

I don't want to discount the importance of a RT, however, I think finding a LG who can play at a high level alongside Stanley/Yanda would be a great scenario for this team. Runs up the middle are the most common runs and teams who have a great inside presence at guard run the ball very well there. Of course the C position impacts it a ton and we're bound to make the adjustment there. 

My problem with people being so quick to dismiss Williams because of the potential price tag is the scenario's that can unfold. If I can recall Biscotti said that the defense became just as liable as the offense towards the end of the year. One of the reasons for that is the collapse of the run D. Look at the guys outside of BWill who got pushed back and manhandled, now imagine subtracting BWill from that scenario. That's one to be worried about. The Ravens front office and defense has always made it a priority to stop the run, it just doesn't seem to shock me that they'll try to continue to do that. 

As far as a $10M salary goes, that's possible but Damon Harrison is a very similar player to BWill and he got a 5YR $46M deal at $9M per year, which is a bit above the mark of what BWill would get. I think at $8M it's certainly worth it, but the guaranteed dollars matter plenty. 

 

I wanna be clear that I'm not suggesting that the Ravens don't need Williams or shouldn't try to sign him. I'm just talking about value and how I think things might go because of course we don't know what will happen once the market opens. But I agree, unless the Ravens cut some guys early and BW doesn't price himself out I don't see both retained either. 

What I'll say about 10M, as you just said all it takes is one team. BW already suggested he won't be giving the Ravens any type of hometown discount and he's widely viewed as the best NT in the NFL. Hell even the Ravens called him the best NT which doesn't help in negotiations lol.  Why is the money Harrison got above the mark Bwill would get? I think the Ravens will do what they can to keep BW, but at what cost? If Williams cost 8M per it's certainly worth it and I'd be happy. However with cap numbers going up and there are some pretty poor rush defenses that have a ton of money, Williams could easily get 10+M imo. Again I hope he doesn't because I don't think the Ravens can afford to pay him that much. It's not because he's not worth it, but more because that's just not great value at the NT position. I think it's certain positions that the Ravens have a quiet confidence about being able to replace and I think NT is one of them. 

As far as Wagner goes. I just saw a report on NFL.com that Wagner could get north of 10M and I definitely wasn't expecting that. Would show that i completely know nothing lol. As far as the LG position, you talk about finding a LG who can play at a high level alongside of Stanley, the thing is the Ravens seem to think Alex Lewis is that guy. He's not just at LG as a last option or because it's no one better to fill the position. The Ravens see him as a potential top level LG and he'd pair with Stanley to build a dominate left side for years to come. I just don't see the Ravens thinking the RT isn't important enough to re-sign Wagner but they'll put a guy there who they think is already showing signs of being as good as KO? Even if the Ravens can't afford Wagner, I think Lewis stays at LG and they attack RT either through the draft or even in house with Jensen which is his natural position. 

I feel the Ravens think they have two really strong young olineman on the left side moving forward and Roman or whoever takes over as olineman coach will be extremely happy with those two. The only change I see at oline is at Center, assuming of course that Wagner doesn't price himself out. 

[Rav'n Maniac]

13 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

I wanna be clear that I'm not suggesting that the Ravens don't need Williams or shouldn't try to sign him. I'm just talking about value and how I think things might go because of course we don't know what will happen once the market opens. But I agree, unless the Ravens cut some guys early and BW doesn't price himself out I don't see both retained either. 

What I'll say about 10M, as you just said all it takes is one team. BW already suggested he won't be giving the Ravens any type of hometown discount and he's widely viewed as the best NT in the NFL. Hell even the Ravens called him the best NT which doesn't help in negotiations lol.  Why is the money Harrison got above the mark Bwill would get? I think the Ravens will do what they can to keep BW, but at what cost? If Williams cost 8M per it's certainly worth it and I'd be happy. However with cap numbers going up and there are some pretty poor rush defenses that have a ton of money, Williams could easily get 10+M imo. Again I hope he doesn't because I don't think the Ravens can afford to pay him that much. It's not because he's not worth it, but more because that's just not great value at the NT position. I think it's certain positions that the Ravens have a quiet confidence about being able to replace and I think NT is one of them. 

As far as Wagner goes. I just saw a report on NFL.com that Wagner could get north of 10M and I definitely wasn't expecting that. Would show that i completely know nothing lol. As far as the LG position, you talk about finding a LG who can play at a high level alongside of Stanley, the thing is the Ravens seem to think Alex Lewis is that guy. He's not just at LG as a last option or because it's no one better to fill the position. The Ravens see him as a potential top level LG and he'd pair with Stanley to build a dominate left side for years to come. I just don't see the Ravens thinking the RT isn't important enough to re-sign Wagner but they'll put a guy there who they think is already showing signs of being as good as KO? Even if the Ravens can't afford Wagner, I think Lewis stays at LG and they attack RT either through the draft or even in house with Jensen which is his natural position. 

I feel the Ravens think they have two really strong young olineman on the left side moving forward and Roman or whoever takes over as olineman coach will be extremely happy with those two. The only change I see at oline is at Center, assuming of course that Wagner doesn't price himself out. 

I feel that due to BWill and Wagner both being ranked in the free agent top 25, it will play hard on us retaining them. Especially considering they are both listed as the #1 free agents at their positions. Now of course, all that may change as cap cuts from other teams are made but, I still believe it will drive their price up beyond what our team feels they can afford imo.

[BmoreBird22]

On 1/13/2017 at 8:39 AM, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

That's good to hear. Definitely an area we need to improve, and doing so could have a big impact on the success of our offense. Most of our TE's struggle with blocking...

I actually really like Gilmore (I think he's overrated, but still good) and Maxx as blockers... just, they're never healthy.

[Ravensfan23]

29 minutes ago, Rav'n Maniac said:

I feel that due to BWill and Wagner both being ranked in the free agent top 25, it will play hard on us retaining them. Especially considering they are both listed as the #1 free agents at their positions. Now of course, all that may change as cap cuts from other teams are made but, I still believe it will drive their price up beyond what our team feels they can afford imo.

I think it's impossible to keep both. So the decision becomes who's more important to your team. I think that player is Wagner because finally building a young are really good offensive line in front of Flacco needs to be priority. Outside of FB, RT is probably the less attractive position on the team. If Wagner was a LT everyone would be saying how the Ravens need to resign him. I think continuing to build this offense has to take priority. 

35 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I actually really like Gilmore (I think he's overrated, but still good) and Maxx as blockers... just, they're never healthy.

I like all 4 of the young TEs as blockers, at least from a willingness to block. Boyle and Gilmore are the better of the group but both Maxx and Waller will stick their heads in there. 

[BmoreBird22]

16 minutes ago, Ravensfan23 said:

I think it's impossible to keep both. So the decision becomes who's more important to your team. I think that player is Wagner because finally building a young are really good offensive line in front of Flacco needs to be priority. Outside of FB, RT is probably the less attractive position on the team. If Wagner was a LT everyone would be saying how the Ravens need to resign him. I think continuing to build this offense has to take priority. 

I like all 4 of the young TEs as blockers, at least from a willingness to block. Boyle and Gilmore are the better of the group but both Maxx and Waller will stick their heads in there. 

I'd aruge Williams is easily the best of the group with Gilmore being severely overrated by fans.

[rmw10]

51 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I'd aruge Williams is easily the best of the group with Gilmore being severely overrated by fans.

Maxx definitely doesn't get enough credit for what he's done as a blocker.  I don't know if I'd call him the best necessarily, but the dude has had moments where he's absolutely mowed people over in the run game.  I think he gets pinned in as a receiver only since that's how he's always been viewed, but he's come a long way in his blocking.

[Ravensfan23]

1 hour ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I'd aruge Williams is easily the best of the group with Gilmore being severely overrated by fans.

I definitely wouldn't stand with you on that one. From a overall standpoint yes I'd agree that  Gilmore gets overrated by fans, but from a blocking standpoint I think he's easily better than Williams. Maxx looked over matched in the run game at times during his rookie year and really didn't get much time to show his improvement in year two because of injury. I think Maxx will develop into a well rounded TE but I don't think he's there yet. 

[Ravensfan23]

8 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Maxx definitely doesn't get enough credit for what he's done as a blocker.  I don't know if I'd call him the best necessarily, but the dude has had moments where he's absolutely mowed people over in the run game.  I think he gets pinned in as a receiver only since that's how he's always been viewed, but he's come a long way in his blocking.

I'd agree he has his moment where he sticks his hat in there and will move people. But it wasn't consistent enough his rookie year. Which is understandable. I though he was performing well in limited spots his 2nd year before the injury but definitely wouldn't call him the best blocker. 

[PurpleCity5]

17 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

I wanna be clear that I'm not suggesting that the Ravens don't need Williams or shouldn't try to sign him. I'm just talking about value and how I think things might go because of course we don't know what will happen once the market opens. But I agree, unless the Ravens cut some guys early and BW doesn't price himself out I don't see both retained either. 

What I'll say about 10M, as you just said all it takes is one team. BW already suggested he won't be giving the Ravens any type of hometown discount and he's widely viewed as the best NT in the NFL. Hell even the Ravens called him the best NT which doesn't help in negotiations lol.  Why is the money Harrison got above the mark Bwill would get? I think the Ravens will do what they can to keep BW, but at what cost? If Williams cost 8M per it's certainly worth it and I'd be happy. However with cap numbers going up and there are some pretty poor rush defenses that have a ton of money, Williams could easily get 10+M imo. Again I hope he doesn't because I don't think the Ravens can afford to pay him that much. It's not because he's not worth it, but more because that's just not great value at the NT position. I think it's certain positions that the Ravens have a quiet confidence about being able to replace and I think NT is one of them. 

As far as Wagner goes. I just saw a report on NFL.com that Wagner could get north of 10M and I definitely wasn't expecting that. Would show that i completely know nothing lol. As far as the LG position, you talk about finding a LG who can play at a high level alongside of Stanley, the thing is the Ravens seem to think Alex Lewis is that guy. He's not just at LG as a last option or because it's no one better to fill the position. The Ravens see him as a potential top level LG and he'd pair with Stanley to build a dominate left side for years to come. I just don't see the Ravens thinking the RT isn't important enough to re-sign Wagner but they'll put a guy there who they think is already showing signs of being as good as KO? Even if the Ravens can't afford Wagner, I think Lewis stays at LG and they attack RT either through the draft or even in house with Jensen which is his natural position. 

I feel the Ravens think they have two really strong young olineman on the left side moving forward and Roman or whoever takes over as olineman coach will be extremely happy with those two. The only change I see at oline is at Center, assuming of course that Wagner doesn't price himself out. 

I'm not a fan of overpaying Williams, if the time arrives where he prices himself out then yes, we should let him go, the Ravens are certainly in the right to let him go at +10M. I'll be honest here, I wasn't a fan of prioritizing Williams over Wagner at first, but after seeing what happened to our run D late in the season, and seeing the regress of Timmy Jernigan, I felt that the defensive line could be in trouble without Williams next season. However, if I can keep Williams at a good price but have to let Wagner go as a result, then I would do it. 

As far as Harrison's contract goes, that's the mark for the #1 run stopping NT in the league. I don't see any reason for Williams to surpass that by a high amount, the cap number will be going up, but I don't think that automatically means teams are going to just throw money at FAs. 

In Wagner's case, the 10M per year seems way too high, I would be shocked if he got that amount. The only way I see Wagner getting 10M or even above is if a team expects that he plays LT that next season or in the least sees him just as versatile. The highest paid RT is Lane Johnson but the Eagles paid him with the expectation that he'll move to LT.

As far as the Ravens comparison between Alex Lewis and KO, I find that interesting because the Ravens didn't view KO as a LG exclusively, they viewed him as someone who can play all over the line, they just had someone who they signed long terms in Monroe, and Wagner who was holding it down at RT, beyond that the Ravens viewed KO as a potential option at LT and to a degree, it harmed them in the end because even the Oakland Raiders agreed to that. Of course you and I know this, but I think the Ravens comparison Lewis to KO could also speak to his versatility. We did see Lewis at LT, even if it wasn't pretty at least he played there. I think the Ravens not only think he's a really good LG, but they might feel that he's just as good at RT, that could convince them to grab a LG and have an even better line this year than last with C being the only spot they would have address via draft. You can do that, and in the process retain Brandon Williams if it comes at a good price.

 

[BmoreBird22]

3 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

I definitely wouldn't stand with you on that one. From a overall standpoint yes I'd agree that  Gilmore gets overrated by fans, but from a blocking standpoint I think he's easily better than Williams. Maxx looked over matched in the run game at times during his rookie year and really didn't get much time to show his improvement in year two because of injury. I think Maxx will develop into a well rounded TE but I don't think he's there yet. 

Gilmore gets like zero leg drive and doesn't get to the second level with blocking. He pretty much just holds his man in place.

I think the issue with Maxx was he was 20(?) when he got to Baltimore, so he really hadn't physically matured yet.

Edited January 15 by BmoreBird22

[allblackraven]

9 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Gilmore gets like zero leg drive and doesn't get to the second level with blocking. He pretty much just holds his man in place.

I think the issue with Maxx was he was 20(?) when he got to Baltimore, so he really hadn't physically matured yet.

I think you need to rewatch his rookie season when he was healthy.

[Ravensfan23]

1 hour ago, PurpleCity5 said:

I'm not a fan of overpaying Williams, if the time arrives where he prices himself out then yes, we should let him go, the Ravens are certainly in the right to let him go at +10M. I'll be honest here, I wasn't a fan of prioritizing Williams over Wagner at first, but after seeing what happened to our run D late in the season, and seeing the regress of Timmy Jernigan, I felt that the defensive line could be in trouble without Williams next season. However, if I can keep Williams at a good price but have to let Wagner go as a result, then I would do it. 

As far as Harrison's contract goes, that's the mark for the #1 run stopping NT in the league. I don't see any reason for Williams to surpass that by a high amount, the cap number will be going up, but I don't think that automatically means teams are going to just throw money at FAs. 

In Wagner's case, the 10M per year seems way too high, I would be shocked if he got that amount. The only way I see Wagner getting 10M or even above is if a team expects that he plays LT that next season or in the least sees him just as versatile. The highest paid RT is Lane Johnson but the Eagles paid him with the expectation that he'll move to LT.

As far as the Ravens comparison between Alex Lewis and KO, I find that interesting because the Ravens didn't view KO as a LG exclusively, they viewed him as someone who can play all over the line, they just had someone who they signed long terms in Monroe, and Wagner who was holding it down at RT, beyond that the Ravens viewed KO as a potential option at LT and to a degree, it harmed them in the end because even the Oakland Raiders agreed to that. Of course you and I know this, but I think the Ravens comparison Lewis to KO could also speak to his versatility. We did see Lewis at LT, even if it wasn't pretty at least he played there. I think the Ravens not only think he's a really good LG, but they might feel that he's just as good at RT, that could convince them to grab a LG and have an even better line this year than last with C being the only spot they would have address via draft. You can do that, and in the process retain Brandon Williams if it comes at a good price.

 

The thing about Harrison is it's not non debatable that he's #1 in terms of NT. I've seen many people list BWill the best NT in the game and more so this is just us talking as fans. All it takes is one team to really fall in love with him. As much of a fan of his as I am, there is no way I can justify KO getting the type of contract he got. So we just don't know what these teams will spend their money. The guy who set the market in 2016 is sure to be the 2nd or 3rd highest paid by the following year. 

As far as Lewis I don't think it's an issue about how good of a RT he is. Yanda is a great RT but he's equally as great at RG and by your own words the LG position is more important than the RT position. So if the Ravens really like what they've gotten so far and LG is a primer position, why move him to a position where he won't have as much impact. So it not really about comparing him to KO strictly for a LG perspective, I think it's exactly like you said, they feel he's a versatile guy who can fill multiple positions but they really like him at LG so why move him to bring in a high priced guy. If the Ravens feel they can get high level play from Lewis at LG, i'd rather save the money and invest it into other positions because if Wagner leaves finding a high level replacement won't be as expensive as a LG would be. Those top young LG who will be available could get KO like money and even if it's close to him that's a lot. If it's not one of the better LGs why even shake things up there? The money it'll take to sign a free agent that's worth it, will cost the same if not more than Wagner. If you can get a LG that's hands down better than Lewis at a great price, by all means you do it. But right now I think the Ravens feel they have their LG of the future.

I don't think Wagner gets that much either. I've said many times that I don't get the impression that he needs to be the highest paid guy in the NFL but definitely wants to be signed to what he feels is respectable. I really think we're looking at a 6.5-6.7M per for Wagner and I think that's more than enough for him. The only scare is that he's the top RT on the market, but I'm not sure how many teams greatly value the RT position enough to pay over market value. Wagner is a top 10 RT and I think he can becomes one of the best at the position but I don't see his value being so high the Ravens can't afford him 

[BmoreBird22]

3 hours ago, allblackraven said:

I think you need to rewatch his rookie season when he was healthy.

Still issues with finishing. 

[RavensFanMania]

IMO they keep Wagner and let Williams walk, especially with Timmy Jernigan becoming a free agent in 2018.  He's the more important player, again imo.

[jazz1988]

16 minutes ago, RavensFanMania said:

IMO they keep Wagner and let Williams walk, especially with Timmy Jernigan becoming a free agent in 2018.  He's the more important player, again imo.

Timmy Jernigan is so inconsistent. I like that the guy had 5 sacks but he was no where near to be found in the games The Ravens needed him the most.