[News] Late For Work 1/11: Is Joe Flacco Holding Ravens Back? Steve Smith Vehemently Defends His QB

[BR News]

Steve Smith to Steve Bisciotti: ‘Man, I’m retired.’ Most-cited quotes from season-review press conference.

View the full article

[The Greek]

#2 is so true when it comes to flacco. he has not had the chance to master a specific system like brady and manning have but he also needs to put in the work to be better.

[TheRavengers]

Best part is how everyone who is running the organization is putting everything down and setting the record straight.

Also like how no one is excusing Flacco for his play while also acknowledging that there were other factors in play for all of their offensive woes. Like a logical person should.

[Derrel]

If Flacco was as capable as Brady, Manning, Rodgers he could help define the offensive approach. After this many years, Flacco still can't read defenses effectively. With that said, for most of his career there hasn't been one big game receiver on this team, let alone a couple. The Steelers have quietly drafted and traded for big game receivers and a runner. They are the most dangerous team in the playoffs, IMO.

[sami]

If Flacco was as capable as Brady, Manning, Rodgers he could help define the offensive approach. After this many years, Flacco still can't read defenses effectively. With that said, for most of his career there hasn't been one big game receiver on this team, let alone a couple. The Steelers have quietly drafted and traded for big game receivers and a runner. They are the most dangerous team in the playoffs, IMO.

this year he had TWO big game receivers. SSS and Wallace not to mention under used Kamar. The receivers aren't his problem. The problem is #1 the system and schemes and routes #2. the offensive line, #3. SSS hit it on the head when he said Joe has had too many OC's. its like learning a new language every year. How can you be comfortable and play up to your potential with that?

[hereweare]

58 minutes ago, TheRavengers said:

Best part is how everyone who is running the organization is putting everything down and setting the record straight.

Also like how no one is excusing Flacco for his play while also acknowledging that there were other factors in play for all of their offensive woes. Like a logical person should.

Don't tell Mike Preston that though... 

[Raven1995]

  1 hour ago, TheRavengers said:

Best part is how everyone who is running the organization is putting everything down and setting the record straight.

Also like how no one is excusing Flacco for his play while also acknowledging that there were other factors in play for all of their offensive woes. Like a logical person should.

Don't tell Mike Preston that though... 

Preston's got to sell papers. He lines Harbaugh, Ozzie and Joe up and runs them over with a bus.

[billiejean]

If Flacco was as capable as Brady, Manning, Rodgers he could help define the offensive approach. After this many years, Flacco still can't read defenses effectively. With that said, for most of his career there hasn't been one big game receiver on this team, let alone a couple. The Steelers have quietly drafted and traded for big game receivers and a runner. They are the most dangerous team in the playoffs, IMO.

how many quarterbacks in the league are as capable as Brady, Manning and Rodgers?

[ellicottraven]

I think Flacco is at his final benefit of the doubt stage with his injury (one must admit it was multiple ligaments he tore up) because it does take a full year to recover from it. So, he can be legitimately excused. But, going into his 9th year, I don't think he has any cards left for two simple reasons. Now everybody's onus is on him - the realistic fans, Bisciotti, Ozzie and even Harbaugh and two he wanted Marty and must live with Marty's system and play calling however good or bad it becomes.

Another season like 2016, nobody can come to his defense because all the excuses legitimate or otherwise have run their course and he alone shall bear the burden. I don't honestly know what to expect from Joe, because he's just so inconsistent and unpredictable. He can go on a rut for 5-6 games or go on a tear for 5-6 games. Fortunately for us, his tear came at the appropriate time in 2012.

As a fan, I just want to know what I'm getting from my QB, good or bad. The frustrating part is with Joe, I'm not confident we win any game even though we win our share of them. He just doesn't inspire confidence basically because of his inconsistency. I don't know if he inspires confidence in the players and team even though they may say (for the cameras) that he does.

[ByTheBay]

56 minutes ago, sami said:

this year he had TWO big game receivers. SSS and Wallace not to mention under used Kamar. The receivers aren't his problem. The problem is #1 the system and schemes and routes #2. the offensive line, #3. SSS hit it on the head when he said Joe has had too many OC's. its like learning a new language every year. How can you be comfortable and play up to your potential with that?

Not even close. I would trade SSS AND Wallace for Antonio Brown. You cant and shouldn't put them in the same level. Brown is so good he demands double teams while our 2 top receivers do not. This creates mismatches and allows other receivers to get open. In our first game with pit we locked down brown and no one else was able to find separation. It worked once and then they made adjustments in the following games and guys stepped up. And Aiken was not used very often because he didn't perform when given then chance. He may have been a one year wonder and may not be back next season. 

Also I would never compare Joe to Manning but Petyon changed teams and systems twice in 4 years and Set records, 2 SB appearances and a SB win in denver. So yeah it's Peyton manning but it shows the qb is more than just the system they are in. 

[B.MORE CAREFUL]

we always draft a "pretty good" player,when it comes to offense. Name me someone who will go down as a great player that plays a skilled position, not O-line. we draft decent receivers and decent QB's, RB's,TE's ect.
We never want to pay up to get that great player.

[ByTheBay]

35 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

I think Flacco is at his final benefit of the doubt stage with his injury (one must admit it was multiple ligaments he tore up) because it does take a full year to recover from it. So, he can be legitimately excused. But, going into his 9th year, I don't think he has any cards left for two simple reasons. Now everybody's onus is on him - the realistic fans, Bisciotti, Ozzie and even Harbaugh and two he wanted Marty and must live with Marty's system and play calling however good or bad it becomes.

Another season like 2016, nobody can come to his defense because all the excuses legitimate or otherwise have run their course and he alone shall bear the burden. I don't honestly know what to expect from Joe, because he's just so inconsistent and unpredictable. He can go on a rut for 5-6 games or go on a tear for 5-6 games. Fortunately for us, his tear came at the appropriate time in 2012.

As a fan, I just want to know what I'm getting from my QB, good or bad. The frustrating part is with Joe, I'm not confident we win any game even though we win our share of them. He just doesn't inspire confidence basically because of his inconsistency. I don't know if he inspires confidence in the players and team even though they may say (for the cameras) that he does.

I used to be like you. I always defended Flacco with all the typical excuses and said that NEXT year he would make that leap and excel. This year I realized this was his 9th season. Thats 9 years as a professional football player. If he isnt doing something now, it's doubtful he will magically do it next year. Unfortunately I believe Joe Flacco will be remembered as the QB of the Baltimore Ravens when we won our second SB and that is all. He will always be remembered for that amazing playoff run. I mean he helped to go through the colts at home, Denver in Mile High in sub zero temps, NE in Foxborough in January and San Fran in the superbowl with the crazy momentum killing power outage. He will always have that and it was truely a great memory for all of us. I thank him for that but doubt anything will change next season. After the SB he seems content with what he has become. It's like he worked so hard to achieve his lifetime goal and then was done. 

[RaRaRavens]

Smith says one thing but his actions say another. He was supposed to take time off after the season and contemplate retirement with his wife when they'll be away on vacation in February. Instead, he announced his decisions after the final whistle of our 2016 season had blown.

Maybe he truly does believe that Flacco is not the one holding this team back. But he obviously thinks someone is, otherwise he would have at least given returning for another season and playing for the SB ring another thought.

It breaks my heart to write this, but the status quo is that the Ravens are, on large part, a talentless team with no serious desire or fire to compete and win, with too many holes to fix, and with not much hope of being better any time soon, not at least until drastic changes are made.

This is exactly what Smith Sr. saw that made his retirement decision a no-brainer, despite what he might say officially. Actions speaks louder than words.

Edited January 11 by RaRaRavens
Grammar

[steelcityraven]

I do trust that Mr. Bisciotti, is correct when he says that Dick, Ozzie and Harbs are the right people for the job. I really do not doubt that at all. My only criticism (and I admit that it is easy to sit here and criticize in anonymity), is that

Ozzie has struggled consistently drafting specific positions. So, I hope that Steve forces his hand to stop wasting draft picks at those positions and look more to the already proven FA markets to fill those gaps.

Dick and Eric are first class but they are human and some business decisions they have made help to make us the proud franchise that we are and some have (especially recently) really been a bust. Can they be benefited by creating a position that provides more clear checks and balances and by Mr.Bisciotti being more hands on?

I think Harbs is a great coach and it is hard to argue with his success (albeit not as much lately). I however feel like Harbs biggest fault is that he is too loyal to his assistant coaches and there is not enough accountability with them! Again.... maybe this is where Mr. Bisciotti or Dick could be more hands on. This is where their having a say may force improvement (one way or another) instead of waiting until a 4-5 week collapse before something is done (if something is done).

Trestman failed for 5 weeks and was replaced in week six. The defense stunk for the final 4 weeks and really beyond that. They played great vs Miami but the 1st Bengals game... they moved the ball well vs us but self-destructed. The Cowboys games we were exposed. So really 6 of the last 8 weeks of the season... our defense played bad. And in all 8 of our 8 loses... Our defense surrendered 2nd half leads and many of those in the 4th quarter or final drive.

Yet... Pees seems to be given a different pass then Trestman was. Many will say bc the defense played better for part of the year but we really do have a lot more talent on the defensive side of the ball and a lot more resources (draft picks and FA) went to that side of the ball. The expectations should be higher... yet a defensive collapse in everyone of our loses seem to go un -noticed or at least on addressed???????

I agree with Mr. Bisciotti that we have the right people for the job (in the ones that he mentioned) but like any successful business we need a lot more accountability all the way around and we need to be more proactive in addressing these issues instead of waiting until there is a glaring problem and being reactive (at the end of season)

[steelcityraven]

Joe will be okay... I don't think he will ever be Brady, Rodgers, or Brees but the good news is that we really never drafted him to be that. He has won a SB MVP and SB trophy without being that. He has shown that we can win the big one with him but he cannot do it alone and we have to keep him protected.

We have Joe regardless of what some fans think and I really don't believe that will change... so lets just provide the help and protection that he needs to allow him to be successful at what he does

and what he does is become the best game manager in the NFL. That may not sound sexy but he won us a super bow being that. I think if we allow that and he wins another super bowl for us... every fan would be happy with that, the team would be happy with that and heck... I think even Joe would be happy with that!

[ellicottraven]

30 minutes ago, ByTheBay said:

I used to be like you. I always defended Flacco with all the typical excuses and said that NEXT year he would make that leap and excel. This year I realized this was his 9th season. Thats 9 years as a professional football player. If he isnt doing something now, it's doubtful he will magically do it next year. Unfortunately I believe Joe Flacco will be remembered as the QB of the Baltimore Ravens when we won our second SB and that is all. He will always be remembered for that amazing playoff run. I mean he helped to go through the colts at home, Denver in Mile High in sub zero temps, NE in Foxborough in January and San Fran in the superbowl with the crazy momentum killing power outage. He will always have that and it was truely a great memory for all of us. I thank him for that but doubt anything will change next season. After the SB he seems content with what he has become. It's like he worked so hard to achieve his lifetime goal and then was done. 

You make a compelling argument but I am going to give it this year anyway because whet choice do any of us really have? I like the idea of 'hope'. It is a powerful emotion!

[ellicottraven]

17 minutes ago, steelcityraven said:

Joe will be okay... I don't think he will ever be Brady, Rodgers, or Brees but the good news is that we really never drafted him to be that. He has won a SB MVP and SB trophy without being that. He has shown that we can win the big one with him but he cannot do it alone and we have to keep him protected.

We have Joe regardless of what some fans think and I really don't believe that will change... so lets just provide the help and protection that he needs to allow him to be successful at what he does

and what he does is become the best game manager in the NFL. That may not sound sexy but he won us a super bow being that. I think if we allow that and he wins another super bowl for us... every fan would be happy with that, the team would be happy with that and heck... I think even Joe would be happy with that!

I would be thrilled if he could assume the mantle of 'game manager' and do what is in the best interest of a victory! We can win a couple of SBs with him adopting that role imho. He must be protected no matter what for him to be successful. His achilles heel has always been pressure that makes him commit critical errors in judgment that either don't end up in a FD/TD or end up being intercepted. He cannot be expected to be Tom Brady who can dissect any defense you throw at him because he isn't very good at it either. But give him a strong running game and force him to comply with the game plan and give him sure handed receivers that can make contested catches and he'll excel. Let's hope that this is exactly what the Ravens plan on doing for him moving forward.

[btfan2]

If Flacco was as capable as Brady, Manning, Rodgers he could help define the offensive approach. After this many years, Flacco still can't read defenses effectively. With that said, for most of his career there hasn't been one big game receiver on this team, let alone a couple. The Steelers have quietly drafted and traded for big game receivers and a runner. They are the most dangerous team in the playoffs, IMO.

I agree. I knew they were going to have Miami for lunch. The other team the Pats. The first round was boring, maybe this week will stir up some interest.

[Minionhunter]

I was pretty reassured by Steve Bisciotti. "I understand that nothing I say today is going to change opinions.” - Maybe not sir, but they way in which you said it and how you presented your points was reassuring.

To all those doubting Joe, remember he won the super bowl MVP in year 5 of Cam's system (though Caldwell was running it at the time). Since then he has not had a stable system. Joe reads defenses just fine, it is the lack of stability that leads to him not being able to also add a look off or pump fake on plays. Also when he runs the hurry up on his own, calling his own plays he seems to do just fine (but not when plays are being called in to him slowly from the sideline during the hurryup like MM did this year).

Also I think those people are forgetting all the perfectly placed game winning catches that were dropped by his receivers. By TJ Whosahasbeen and Boldin in the playoffs vs. the steelers when they won. Lee Evans (that might be a traumatically repressed memory) followed by Cundiff. The drops in the Steelers game this year by a few players. The numerous drops by Perriman (who seems to need the ball thrown into the most difficult to catch places to make a catch while unable to catch easy passes).

During his down streak, the one common factor was the horrid line play, and the one common denominator was Juan Castillo. I don't like keeping MM, but I understand it. I don't understand, at all, keeping Castillo for a minute longer with the data we have on what has happened to the line and run game under his direction.

[btfan2]

#2 is so true when it comes to flacco. he has not had the chance to master a specific system like brady and manning have but he also needs to put in the work to be better.

Agree on both counts. Flacco has the physical skills and for all the moaning and groaning I saw improvement in Joe. Not as much as desired but; improvement.

At his worst he's better then most. People don't really watch other games and really watch QB's in relation to the O-line, receivers, play calling and the other teams defense. Everyone seems to ignore that other teams defense factor. We have pretty close to the most vanilla play calling in the NFL.

Teams don't even need to game plan for us. They know what our O is going to do and they know our D is going to fold in the 4th quarter. I love the term another poster used "Bend don't win", perfect!

Everyone wants to blame someone and Joe's big paycheck makes him first man up. It just isn't that simple. (IMHO)

[RavensDieHard21]

I don't like Marty being Trestman 2.0, but maybe he will build from this year and scheme better now that he knows where the players strengths are. I know nobody wants to here this, but at times I understood in the first 8-9 games why we weren't running the ball often. It was because the identity of our line was not meant to bulldoze people over. Stanley and Wagner are great pass protectors and so is Yanda. Lewis, Zuttah, Urschel were not getting the push they needed. 

Add a center or LG in the Third and add at least one WR in the first 3 rounds. We might not have a possession receiver now, but I'd be all in for John Ross after our first pick. If we could move up to grab him I think he will be lighting in the NFL. Perriman, Wallace and Ross could seriously torch secondaries. Give coordinators nightmares on PA. 

[jsarrocohome@yahoo.com]

I don't like Marty being Trestman 2.0, but maybe he will build from this year and scheme better now that he knows where the players strengths are. I know nobody wants to here this, but at times I understood in the first 8-9 games why we weren't running the ball often. It was because the identity of our line was not meant to bulldoze people over. Stanley and Wagner are great pass protectors and so is Yanda. Lewis, Zuttah, Urschel were not getting the push they needed. 

Add a center or LG in the Third and add at least one WR in the first 3 rounds. We might not have a possession receiver now, but I'd be all in for John Ross after our first pick. If we could move up to grab him I think he will be lighting in the NFL. Perriman, Wallace and Ross could seriously torch secondaries. Give coordinators nightmares on PA. 

I totally disagree and to my point about stupid coaches not helping team win flacco coming off knee surgery should have been handing the ball off to a RB a LOT more Instead of passing over 600 times it just doesn't make sense

[metalraven]

  1 hour ago, steelcityraven said:

Joe will be okay... I don't think he will ever be Brady, Rodgers, or Brees but the good news is that we really never drafted him to be that. He has won a SB MVP and SB trophy without being that. He has shown that we can win the big one with him but he cannot do it alone and we have to keep him protected.

We have Joe regardless of what some fans think and I really don't believe that will change... so lets just provide the help and protection that he needs to allow him to be successful at what he does

and what he does is become the best game manager in the NFL. That may not sound sexy but he won us a super bow being that. I think if we allow that and he wins another super bowl for us... every fan would be happy with that, the team would be happy with that and heck... I think even Joe would be happy with that!

I would be thrilled if he could assume the mantle of 'game manager' and do what is in the best interest of a victory! We can win a couple of SBs with him adopting that role imho. He must be protected no matter what for him to be successful. His achilles heel has always been pressure that makes him commit critical errors in judgment that either don't end up in a FD/TD or end up being intercepted. He cannot be expected to be Tom Brady who can dissect any defense you throw at him because he isn't very good at it either. But give him a strong running game and force him to comply with the game plan and give him sure handed receivers that can make contested catches and he'll excel. Let's hope that this is exactly what the Ravens plan on doing for him moving forward.

I agree. He should just play within himself. I want to see the 25 TDs, 10 picks, 3,600 yards and a 12-4 record. Keep it simple.

[metalraven]

The Flacco Defender Squad is out in full force today! They feel validated by Steve Smith's remarks.

If it's BECAUSE of the system: Why not keep it simple by running the ball more?
If it's BECAUSE of the injury: Why not keep it simple by running the ball more?
If it's BECAUSE the receivers dropped passes: Why not keep it simple by running the ball more?

New OC, bum knee, "bad receivers" - no problem! We'll throw it 670 times. That's the solution!

The points in Joe's defense do have validity - but Joe is still the one playing and throwing and leading the offense; so he inherently is accountable for the way he plays.

If we get the same ol' next year, then what? What excuses will be made then? If by then you can't accept reality, then you're either too stupid to see it, or you're turning a blind eye because you're emotionally invested in Joe Flacco.

Next year better be different!

[ByTheBay]

2 hours ago, ellicottraven said:

You make a compelling argument but I am going to give it this year anyway because whet choice do any of us really have? I like the idea of 'hope'. It is a powerful emotion!

I am with you. I have hope every season. I have given up on Flacco improving but fully believe the team will improve every year. They will just have to find a way despite having joe as their QB. Denver did it with a noodle armed manning so anything is possible. I mean isnt that why we are all fans? To believe that your team could go all the way every year. I don't know how Browns fans do it but respect the hell out of them for somehow always believing. 

[sp3ctor]

I'm so glad the trolls on this board are not any of the following people: this team's owner, this team's GM, this team's President, or any other position of authority within the organization. Steve Bisciotti is a self-made BILLIONAIRE, CEO, philanthropist, and entrepreneur. He knows how to run a business. It isn't coincidence that two superbowls have come to Baltimore since he took over as owner. He's steady, calm, cool, and collected. He isn't going to make rash decisions based off of small sample sizes. Joe had a down year, but not when his offensive line held up. Harbs made a few bad calls this year as HC, but ultimately had his medicre, unbalanced lineup poised to take out the second, or possibly best, AFC team this year on Christmas day, Ozzie missed on some top picks, yet his gems in the later rounds, including multiple starters. The fact is that this team is fine and would benefit from a season of continuity. We are one offensive weapon away from being a powerhouse offense and if Mornhinweg can get back to the simplified West Coast offense Kubes installed in 2014, we will be a force next season. Think about it: Kubes offense WITH legit burners means Flacco moves on from the check-downs. But honestly most important factor I really hope the critics keep in mind this off season: one season is not a sufficient sample size to tell what you do or do not have. Scientists don't run two or three experiments and declare it 100% proven. They run hundreds of tests and weigh all options that might prove their hypothesis wrong. The simple fact is that all of the people criticizing the main pieces of this organization always point to one or two things and try and pass it off as "fact" The only fact I see here is that this organization is a great position to compete with the Steelers next season for AFC North supremacy and that's all we can hope for at this point, because last I checked, had we made the playoffs, with the absolute garbage competition during the Wild Card Weekend, we could have made a splash. The critics would have fizzled out had that happened. We were 8 inches away from that. Remember how close we came and come talk to me next year if we've regressed.

[ellicottraven]

27 minutes ago, ByTheBay said:

I am with you. I have hope every season. I have given up on Flacco improving but fully believe the team will improve every year. They will just have to find a way despite having joe as their QB. Denver did it with a noodle armed manning so anything is possible. I mean isnt that why we are all fans? To believe that your team could go all the way every year. I don't know how Browns fans do it but respect the hell out of them for somehow always believing. 

The problem I see with Flacco is despite potentially not being 100% in 2016 when you look at this stat from ESPN: "Flacco is No. 33 in passer rating over the last four seasons, throwing 80 touchdowns and 61 interceptions". That is a pretty sizable sample size too.  Even if you assume he was hampered by injury then how does one reconcile the fact that, woqr wasn't a whole lot different from the previous three! That's the difficult part about evaluating Joe's future play...

Also one can't discount the fact that he is in the top 3-4 highest paid players in the league either because with the salary cap it's all trickle down in terms of ability to sign quality players. If a QB that is passing like the 33rd best in the league over the past 4 yrs but isn't producing like a top 5 QB (what he's paid), then how can one put together a quality team around him? As an example, would it be so difficult to sign K.O if Flacco weren't consuming the cap space he did last year? I doubt it and that would've helped Flacco's protection too and we would have been a better team! That's the problem...

[Glen1024]

6 hours ago, The Greek said:

#2 is so true when it comes to flacco. he has not had the chance to master a specific system like brady and manning have but he also needs to put in the work to be better.

I disagree with this JOE has only played in 2 different offensive systems in his career...now he hasn't had a consistent coordinator running the WCO but his first 6 seasons it was the same system

[rmcjacket23]

The Flacco Defender Squad is out in full force today! They feel validated by Steve Smith's remarks.

If it's BECAUSE of the system: Why not keep it simple by running the ball more?
If it's BECAUSE of the injury: Why not keep it simple by running the ball more?
If it's BECAUSE the receivers dropped passes: Why not keep it simple by running the ball more?

New OC, bum knee, "bad receivers" - no problem! We'll throw it 670 times. That's the solution!

The points in Joe's defense do have validity - but Joe is still the one playing and throwing and leading the offense; so he inherently is accountable for the way he plays.

If we get the same ol' next year, then what? What excuses will be made then? If by then you can't accept reality, then you're either too stupid to see it, or you're turning a blind eye because you're emotionally invested in Joe Flacco.

Next year better be different!

Simple answer... because we weren't very good at running the ball when we did. So why would doing something more of something you're not good at be a good thing?

28th in rushing attempts, 23rd in YPC. What does that tell us? Not only didn't we run the ball enough, but we also didn't run it well when we did.

If we get the same from Joe in 2017 as we got in 2016, then he will be a starting QB in 2018. We're married... we're not dating.

[rmcjacket23]

Smith says one thing but his actions say another. He was supposed to take time off after the season and contemplate retirement with his wife when they'll be away on vacation in February. Instead, he announced his decisions after the final whistle of our 2016 season had blown.

Maybe he truly does believe that Flacco is not the one holding this team back. But he obviously thinks someone is, otherwise he would have at least given returning for another season and playing for the SB ring another thought.

It breaks my heart to write this, but the status quo is that the Ravens are, on large part, a talentless team with no serious desire or fire to compete and win, with too many holes to fix, and with not much hope of being better any time soon, not at least until drastic changes are made.

This is exactly what Smith Sr. saw that made his retirement decision a no-brainer, despite what he might say officially. Actions speaks louder than words.

Steve told us he was retiring after LAST season, and only came back because he didn't want to retire injured.

Everybody knew this was Steve's last year before the season even started. It surprised nobody. There wasn't a single, reasonable fan who was expecting him back after this season. Everybody knew that one way or another, he was done with the Ravens after 2016.