[News] Late For Work 1/9: Who Should Stay And Who Should Go Among Aging Ravens Veterans?

[leziRav]

Keep NT – Brandon Williams, and even Mallet, clear house on anyone over age 27. Draft for size and speed with speed the most important factor. Our DB's are just short and slow. Our receivers scare NO One and for gods sake find a RB. Number 9 with ALA. would be a good choice, BIg, Fast something we haven't had since 2000. Just think what might have happened it we could have killed another 3-4 minutes in the last game with the Steelers. Lost to the Raiders buy dumb coaching calls. That's was with at best a 8 & 8 Team. Don't forget that Flaaco just stinks.

Not sure about B William and Mallet. But I agree with Devin Cook, if he is on board when we pick and DB M. Hooker and J. Adams are off board then we pick him. Get the top center at rnd 2, then 2 DBs in rd3. Then we restructure Pitta, Wallace and Web contract, cut Doom and resign him cheaper. Sign a top CB in free agent. We won't need a WR if we have Devin Cook and Dixon in our backfield. We will give them the ball 70% of our O snaps, then 30% deep pass to Breshad/Wallace/Moore and middle pass to Pitta/Waller/Max. That is Ravens football. On the defense side with two 3rd rd DBs from the draft and a top CB in free agency added to J Smith and Young, we will be fine at secondary. Resign Doom, both Doom and Suggs healthy will put pressure on QB. Judon, KC, Z Smith will be our young pass rusher. People are calling KC a bust but he has not been used as a pass rusher. He was used as ILB while he played edge in college so that is not fair. Also I think Kaufusi will be the best interior pass rusher we had for a while.

[eze17]

  1 hour ago, jsarrocohome@yahoo.com said:

Webb and Watson must go that's the ravens problem to many older players and webb can't cover

 

  1 hour ago, jsarrocohome@yahoo.com said:

Doom will be gone hasn't done anything in 2 years

 

  1 hour ago, jsarrocohome@yahoo.com said:

we are a head coach OC DC away from playoffs

 

We should just get rid of everyone and completely start over.  That would solve all of our problems.

I know your being sarcastic, but that is some people that comment on this site's solution. Of course, some of them are common trolls, but others genuinely believe that getting rid of everyone in the FO, all the coaches and 90% of the players would make us a better team. Guess they've never heard of the Cleveland Brownies, who've been trying that approach for years.

[Purple Dawg 96]

Get rid of Joe and Elvis! This team is a reflection of its QB! PERIOD!

[whobilly]

Get rid of Joe and Elvis! This team is a reflection of its QB! PERIOD!

And Ryan Fitzpatrick is the answer. I forgot.

[whobilly]

  3 hours ago, whobilly said:

I'm thinking basically every player on the chart with the exception of Wallace. We do need one or two WR's. Pita could be gone unless he is willing to restructure. I would also take a look at Suggs. Running on fumes. Time to start working in younger blood. Of course if we could draft players instead of roster fillers that would help a great deal.

Take a look at Suggs? O.K., he's the best pass rusher on the team right now, and that's after basically missing the 2015 season & playing 2016 with one arm. All for getting younger at the position, but right now who would step in to fill his shoes? Unless we go out and throw a bunch of money at expensive veterans, no one on the team or in the draft have the credentials to take his place. Not saying we won't get better, but right now he's the most solid contibutor we have at the position. I'll take a T-Sizzle running on fumes, especially looking at his performance this season, over an inexperienced player trying to fill the void that's left if we cut him.

Yep, and he's not getting any younger. Better to part ways with older players a year early vs a year to late.

[whobilly]

I see they didn't put Joe Flacco's 2017 cap hit on the chart..........

Yep, that's the answer. No more Flacco and sign Ryan Fitzpatrick.

[ineng1379]

Get rid of Pitta. I have a lot of respect for him as a player and he was a big part of our superbowl run. But let's face it, he is not getting any younger, stronger or faster. To make matters worse, Flacco consistently looks for him and neglects open receivers. The only reason Pitta's numbers look impressive this year is because he got targeted a lot more times.
We have drafted 3 TE and if you add Juice to the mix we potentially have 4 who can start at that position. It's high time we start developing younger talent (bar Sizzle, that dude is a stud)

[Ugly Ball]

  2 hours ago, The Greek said:

  2 hours ago, PersianRaven said:

We are a Marcus Peters/Von Miller combo away from making it to the playoffs. That is exactly what this team is missing. A premium pass rusher and a shut down corner that can stay healthy.

do not forget about receivers as well

we are a head coach OC DC away from playoffs

Exactly

[designermaryland]

Release all of them. The only guy who was remotely decent was Wallace. Suggs will probably have to stay due to the awful contract structure, like several veteran deals. The front office continues to overpay veterans. Unless these are perennial all pros, stop resigning them and adopt a youth movement, or at least younger under 30 guys on shorter deals. They are getting screwed royally on webb, pitta, suggs, ngata, and others. These are essentially role players who can be found on almost any roster or practice squad. It is time for some player turnover and improving the speed and football intelligence of the talent.

And Suggs is not a beast. Mediocre and overpaid, potentially a liability if you ask me. He is constantly exposed and undisciplined. The few plays he makes a year do not outweigh 20+ gash running plays or screens he is burnt on every year, while losing contain or going lone ranger trying to gamble and make a play he is incapable of making this late in his career. Once was dominant, but start dumping these players before they cash in and become unproductive.

[designermaryland]

Not mentioned on this article, but read from NFL official page that Harbaugh says that our team needs to add another RB.

WHAT?! Is he willingly trying to bury this team as deep as he can before getting canned?!

I understand depth is needed and wouldn't hurt to have a game changer like Bell, but by no measure is our backfield in dire need of an upgrade. That can not be said about most other positions on this team. We need an upgrade at the play of QB more than that of RBs.

At the very least I would be interested in his reasoning why he thinks West and Dixon aren't enough. Cause as little as they were used this season, they showed much promise.

Maybe someone on these boards can elaborate on Harbaugh's mind-boggling idea?

not to mention, running backs appear from obscurity on a regular basis. thinking this is one of the top priorities when you have invested mid round draft picks the past few years is ridiculous, when you need corners, pass rushers and O line badly. the RB is only ever as good as the line. get a center or LG, and it will make Dixon exponentially better, therefore you have in essence gotten a better RB as a result.

[whobilly]

Release all of them. The only guy who was remotely decent was Wallace. Suggs will probably have to stay due to the awful contract structure, like several veteran deals. The front office continues to overpay veterans. Unless these are perennial all pros, stop resigning them and adopt a youth movement, or at least younger under 30 guys on shorter deals. They are getting screwed royally on webb, pitta, suggs, ngata, and others. These are essentially role players who can be found on almost any roster or practice squad. It is time for some player turnover and improving the speed and football intelligence of the talent.

And Suggs is not a beast. Mediocre and overpaid, potentially a liability if you ask me. He is constantly exposed and undisciplined. The few plays he makes a year do not outweigh 20+ gash running plays or screens he is burnt on every year, while losing contain or going lone ranger trying to gamble and make a play he is incapable of making this late in his career. Once was dominant, but start dumping these players before they cash in and become unproductive.

I'm with you. Better to part ways with most older players a year early vs a year to late.

[EddiOK]

Keep Suggs, Pitta, & Wallace. Everyone else...buh-bye.

[Saxxin]

If they release Pitta Wallace or Suggs I'd be surprised. The rest I'd be surprised if they were not released.

[The Beak]

5 hours ago, billiejean said:

Well that just isnt true at all. His first four games were rough with people rotating through the guard spots next to him. And yes there were two times in one of those games where he backed up on Joe. And in another one of those games neigher Jensen or Zuttah blocked a guy that they were clearly responsible for which lead to a sack. But in the last eleven games of the season he has been rated as one of top five players on the offensive side of the ball eight times. Twice he was the top player and twice he was the second. I wouldn't call Zuttah past his prime or a stop gap. He was rated the number 9 gaurd in the league last year. But he is expensive and if we do get rid of him we better have a plan because there is no one else on our roster that would come close to performing the way he did. And its possible that you would dispute PFFs grade or grading system but what I would say is that you are basing you opinion on only about 1 percent of his plays because there is no way that you would be able to watch him, and then access his performance on every single play during the game. But, he is expensive and I would be fine letting him go. But if we let him go and think that either Urschel or Jensen would be able to perfrom in his place it would be a really big over site.

Zuttah is the worst center we have ever had here, he is never on the same page as the rest of the oline he misses a ton of blocks , he is supposed to be the general on the oline , but he is definitely the weak link.....

[billiejean]

19 minutes ago, The Beak said:

Zuttah is the worst center we have ever had here, he is never on the same page as the rest of the oline he misses a ton of blocks , he is supposed to be the general on the oline , but he is definitely the weak link.....

It is very clear you haven't been watching Zuttah. The worst center we've ever had?? After that ridiculous statement I am not sure why I am even dignifying you with a response,.but here it goes.  He was graded the ninth best center in the league last year and he will be graded in the top half of centers this year.  There are two possibilities here.  One, you have no idea how to access offensive line talent because you don't know what they do.  It would not surprise me if you couldn't tell the difference between a bucket or pull step and a false step. And you probably would have trouble differentiating between a pulling lineman and any type of cross block.  But hey maybe you do know about what goes on in the trenches.  If this is the case then your problem is that you have not watched Zuttah on every single play, assessed his performance on the play, and made a tally somewhere in a book so that you could add them all up at the end to see how he did.  You know like PFF does twice over.  But if I were a betting man I would say its both.  You don't know much about offensive line play and you are judging Zuttah on  .1 percent of the plays that he has played this season.  I would be fine with letting Zuttah go because of the money but not without bringing someone in, because if you think Zuttah has been the Ravens worst center ever (Did you just start watching the Ravens this season? Do you not remember Gino Gradkowski or AQ shipley?) you will be in for a rude awakening if either Jensen or Urschel are relied upon to take that spot next season. 

[billiejean]

3 hours ago, ineng1379 said:

Get rid of Pitta. I have a lot of respect for him as a player and he was a big part of our superbowl run. But let's face it, he is not getting any younger, stronger or faster. To make matters worse, Flacco consistently looks for him and neglects open receivers. The only reason Pitta's numbers look impressive this year is because he got targeted a lot more times.
We have drafted 3 TE and if you add Juice to the mix we potentially have 4 who can start at that position. It's high time we start developing younger talent (bar Sizzle, that dude is a stud)

Don't forget about Watson.  If we were to get rid of one I would get rid of him.  He is the oldest and has the least upside.

Edited January 10 by billiejean

[FilthGawd]

Absolutely part with doom, he can't stay healthy and I believe Judon can step up and take over his role. Cut Arrington and lewis both are bad. I feel like we will let big brandon walk, which I would hate to see happen. Its also a mistake if we let juice walk. I honestly would like to see Aiken back, but current reports say he's too salty to resign with us. Pitta will cost a good grip of dead money to release, but i think that we have enough good TE's to let him loose. Ben watson will be 36...i mean id cut him as well. We need a rangy kid to put next to weddle because webby isnt living up to his contract, i feel like we had one with terrance brooks but we let him loose.  I also wouldn't cut wallace after he just played pretty well for us this year as our resident deep threat. Keep Zuttah. Lastly, i dislike shareece wright so much, he had a great game against buffalo and was abused the remaining 15 games, id love to see him go. 

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

You keep Suggs and Pitta, thats it

[rmcjacket23]

Release all of them. The only guy who was remotely decent was Wallace. Suggs will probably have to stay due to the awful contract structure, like several veteran deals. The front office continues to overpay veterans. Unless these are perennial all pros, stop resigning them and adopt a youth movement, or at least younger under 30 guys on shorter deals. They are getting screwed royally on webb, pitta, suggs, ngata, and others. These are essentially role players who can be found on almost any roster or practice squad. It is time for some player turnover and improving the speed and football intelligence of the talent.

And Suggs is not a beast. Mediocre and overpaid, potentially a liability if you ask me. He is constantly exposed and undisciplined. The few plays he makes a year do not outweigh 20+ gash running plays or screens he is burnt on every year, while losing contain or going lone ranger trying to gamble and make a play he is incapable of making this late in his career. Once was dominant, but start dumping these players before they cash in and become unproductive.

This post is part delusional, part hypocritical...

1. If your plan is to sign quality FAs under the age of 30 to short term deals, then its quite simple... you'll never sign a single one of those players, because they will sign a longer term deal with more guaranteed money on a different team. We aren't the only team in the league. Quality FAs under the age of 30 have a LOT of suitors in FA, and not only do you have to compete on price, but you also have to compete on length. So good luck with that strategy, because its not going to work.

2. Ironically, many of the contracts you bashed also fall under the category of the contracts you WANT to see the Ravens give:

Haloti Ngata signed a five year extension in 2011... at the age of 27. Naturally nobody complained about his contract until the very end, because that's what hypocrites do. Didn't hear a peep about it back in 2011.

Lardarius Webb signed a six year extension in 2012... at the age of 26. Again, not many complaint about the deal when the contract was signed.

Pitta signed in 2014 at age 28. I will agree that this contract was questionable, given his prior injury history.

Clearly these kinds of players aren't just available everywhere, otherwise they wouldn't be on the PS or they would be making a whole lot less elsewhere. Heck, the Lions are still paying Ngata $6M a year on average even now. I don't know too many role players or PS guys making that kind of coin.

It helps if you do your research and actually understand what the value of these players are.

[BallsoHard622]

Well, we have 18 TEs on the roster, so maybe start there. Then move onto a secondary that has a bunch of pine riders who SUCK and should not even be on the practice squad. Then get rid of doom - he's useless. We all saw how inept he was when Suggs was out last season; and then this season, well, not much different.

18 TEs...lmao that's what I've been saying to dog. Why did we keep bringing in TEs. I wish we would attack the corner position like we attacked the TE spot. We should redo pitta an webbys deal an see if we can work out a short term deal with doom. Our young pash rushers aren't good enough yet for us to rely on. B Williams an our rt Wagner are gone. Time to add some playmakers on both sides of the ball.

[OUravensfan]

5 hours ago, ineng1379 said:

Get rid of Pitta. I have a lot of respect for him as a player and he was a big part of our superbowl run. But let's face it, he is not getting any younger, stronger or faster. To make matters worse, Flacco consistently looks for him and neglects open receivers. The only reason Pitta's numbers look impressive this year is because he got targeted a lot more times.
We have drafted 3 TE and if you add Juice to the mix we potentially have 4 who can start at that position. It's high time we start developing younger talent (bar Sizzle, that dude is a stud)

I'd like to see them have Pitta and Maxx Williams on the field in 2 TE sets, or Boyle, hell Waller

Edited January 10 by OUravensfan

[Halshayeji]

5 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

This post is part delusional, part hypocritical...

1. If your plan is to sign quality FAs under the age of 30 to short term deals, then its quite simple... you'll never sign a single one of those players, because they will sign a longer term deal with more guaranteed money on a different team. We aren't the only team in the league. Quality FAs under the age of 30 have a LOT of suitors in FA, and not only do you have to compete on price, but you also have to compete on length. So good luck with that strategy, because its not going to work.

2. Ironically, many of the contracts you bashed also fall under the category of the contracts you WANT to see the Ravens give:

Haloti Ngata signed a five year extension in 2011... at the age of 27. Naturally nobody complained about his contract until the very end, because that's what hypocrites do. Didn't hear a peep about it back in 2011.

Lardarius Webb signed a six year extension in 2012... at the age of 26. Again, not many complaint about the deal when the contract was signed.

Pitta signed in 2014 at age 28. I will agree that this contract was questionable, given his prior injury history.

Clearly these kinds of players aren't just available everywhere, otherwise they wouldn't be on the PS or they would be making a whole lot less elsewhere. Heck, the Lions are still paying Ngata $6M a year on average even now. I don't know too many role players or PS guys making that kind of coin.

It helps if you do your research and actually understand what the value of these players are.

I rarely agree with 100% of any of your replies but this time your absolutely right.

Last offseason you and I went back and forth over how much flexibility our FO has to attack FA. I believe I was right. They were able to free a lot of cap space to make moves. This year is a different story. We don't have the flexibility we had last year so let's all pump the brakes a bit: this could be a much more conservative summer. 

Webb and Ngata were great contract at the time of signing and it's not fair for us to jump all over them when their back loaded contracts balloon. They're backloaded for a reason and that's to give the Ravens the flexibility to redo it or get rid of it. The players are not at fault here and the FO did a good enough job with keeping these guys at the time.

The pitta contract particularly is stunning to me. I can't believe people are calling for him to get cut after he took a 4 mil dollar pay cut last year and balled!

Suggs being bashed is also something I despise, I can't believe people are on his strap when he's clearly outperforming his contract. And even if he wasn't, how can you even let go of someone that's been so loyal to you? Good luck attracting FAs in the future if you can't do Suggs right. The way I look at it.... Even if Suggs plays 0 downs for the next 2 years wev gotten our money's worth and some so he can retire under his terms. Everything else is just a bonus

Edited January 10 by Halshayeji

[RaRaRavens]

8 hours ago, designermaryland said:

not to mention, running backs appear from obscurity on a regular basis. thinking this is one of the top priorities when you have invested mid round draft picks the past few years is ridiculous, when you need corners, pass rushers and O line badly. the RB is only ever as good as the line. get a center or LG, and it will make Dixon exponentially better, therefore you have in essence gotten a better RB as a result.

Precisely!

[#Nevermore]

I think we can eat Doom's contract for one more year. This is his last year, he should be healthy. Even if we draft another pass rusher in the 1st 3 rounds (which there is no reason we shouldn't) you can never have enough rushers. He along with Sizzle, Judon, Smith a drafted rookie can be a rush package for 3rd and long. Having depth at that position makes sense to me.

We can cut the trio of D-backs, because there is no reason to keep them. We need to retool that secondary and that starts with drafting 2 corners and a S in the 1st 5 rounds. Preferably a CB in the 1st and 3rd and drafting a safety in the 4th or 5th. Also get some undrafted DBs.

I don't know what you do with Pitta. He is the only reliable TE (as far as catching the ball) we have. We don't know what Watson will bring. Hopefully Maxx Williams shows great strides this off season after being red-shirted this season. Can Gillmore come back healthy? Will Waller be more consistent? We have plenty of options at TE, but are any reliable?

[jsarrocohome@yahoo.com]

  12 hours ago, The Mom Gene said:

  13 hours ago, jsarrocohome@yahoo.com said:

Webb and Watson must go that's the ravens problem to many older players and webb can't cover

 

  13 hours ago, jsarrocohome@yahoo.com said:

Doom will be gone hasn't done anything in 2 years

 

  13 hours ago, jsarrocohome@yahoo.com said:

we are a head coach OC DC away from playoffs

 

We should just get rid of everyone and completely start over.  That would solve all of our problems.

I know your being sarcastic, but that is some people that comment on this site's solution. Of course, some of them are common trolls, but others genuinely believe that getting rid of everyone in the FO, all the coaches and 90% of the players would make us a better team. Guess they've never heard of the Cleveland Brownies, who've been trying that approach for years.

I kwow football but you don't have two ,to see our coaches cost us games every year those are FACTs from a smart fan not a troll and if someone doesn't see that you don't know football

[Rav'n Maniac]

Here we are again with the who stays, who goes. The Ravens have to create some serious coin to help build this roster. We can't bring in playmakers without it. Everyone knows they will do whatever they need to to make that happen. It's best to just sit on the fence and wait to see how it all plays out.

[RavenManiac#7]

In the "Quick Hits" feature of this article, I saw the thank you from the organization to the fans, calling us the "best in the NFL". Well, it seems to me that a better way of thanking us fans would have been a wiser choice in the decision of whether or not to retain, not only our HC, but also, our OC and DC. It just seems highly unlikely that we can, realistically, expect much improvement next season because of those decisions. Frankly, I've been slightly surprised about just how high a percentage of fans appear to share this opinion. Of course, the Only opinion that matters, our owner's, apparently, doesn't agree. Sure hope I'm wrong about how low the chances are that we'll improve significantly, if at all, next season. I'm the first to admit that Mr. Bisciotti is much smarter than I am, so I really hope that he is the one who is right and I, along with many fans, are wrong about his decision.

[RavenManiac#7]

  15 hours ago, designermaryland said:

Release all of them. The only guy who was remotely decent was Wallace. Suggs will probably have to stay due to the awful contract structure, like several veteran deals. The front office continues to overpay veterans. Unless these are perennial all pros, stop resigning them and adopt a youth movement, or at least younger under 30 guys on shorter deals. They are getting screwed royally on webb, pitta, suggs, ngata, and others. These are essentially role players who can be found on almost any roster or practice squad. It is time for some player turnover and improving the speed and football intelligence of the talent.

And Suggs is not a beast. Mediocre and overpaid, potentially a liability if you ask me. He is constantly exposed and undisciplined. The few plays he makes a year do not outweigh 20+ gash running plays or screens he is burnt on every year, while losing contain or going lone ranger trying to gamble and make a play he is incapable of making this late in his career. Once was dominant, but start dumping these players before they cash in and become unproductive.

This post is part delusional, part hypocritical...

1. If your plan is to sign quality FAs under the age of 30 to short term deals, then its quite simple... you'll never sign a single one of those players, because they will sign a longer term deal with more guaranteed money on a different team. We aren't the only team in the league. Quality FAs under the age of 30 have a LOT of suitors in FA, and not only do you have to compete on price, but you also have to compete on length. So good luck with that strategy, because its not going to work.

2. Ironically, many of the contracts you bashed also fall under the category of the contracts you WANT to see the Ravens give:

Haloti Ngata signed a five year extension in 2011... at the age of 27. Naturally nobody complained about his contract until the very end, because that's what hypocrites do. Didn't hear a peep about it back in 2011.

Lardarius Webb signed a six year extension in 2012... at the age of 26. Again, not many complaint about the deal when the contract was signed.

Pitta signed in 2014 at age 28. I will agree that this contract was questionable, given his prior injury history.

Clearly these kinds of players aren't just available everywhere, otherwise they wouldn't be on the PS or they would be making a whole lot less elsewhere. Heck, the Lions are still paying Ngata $6M a year on average even now. I don't know too many role players or PS guys making that kind of coin.

It helps if you do your research and actually understand what the value of these players are.

As usual, jacket makes an informed and sensible post. I think that we should appoint jacket as we fans' GM. He Always makes sensible and informed posts. I have Never seen one ranting post from him. I have Never seen one unresearched post from him. He Always backs his statements up with facts and common sense, rather than emotion. And he understands more about rules, contracts, salary caps, and other pertinent information than most other posters on this site. What do you say, jacket? Will you accept the nomination?

[RavensDieHard21]

We have been in a cap hell for 2-3 years now. Clean out the players that are not proving they are valuable and start new with cheap draft picks. 

Due to our cap situation we have let great players like McPhee and KO leave. Yes, KO was paid an immense price, but we literally had two All-pros at guard. Had we matched that with Stanley and Wagner. Our offensive line doesn't miss a beat, but anyways, cut Arrington, Lewis, doom--at least attempt a restructure, Watson, then contemplate Wright based on our commitment to drafter a corner early. 

[troy0331]

I think we should get rid of the trio of DBs as well as finally parting ways with the 1st round bust off 2013, Matt Elam. If we can draft 2 or more DBs or a safety, we should be good. Tavon Young has a lot of potential.