Lets talk trades!

[ellicottraven]

On 1/10/2017 at 3:43 PM, January J said:

Hypothetically what if we're offered a first and a 2nd for Flacco?  Not only do we clear all that cap- but we could draft say Deshaun Watson along with  a pass rusher- and then have two picks in the second to address WR and corner. Not to mention the money we could spend in FA. I'm not a Joe hater by any means- but the thought does sound a little intriguing if you think about it. Farfetched though I know.

If some team from the NFC preferably SF offered us their 1st and 2nd round picks this year and next year, I would consider it seriously. We would instantly be a better team assuming of course we can sign a good QB maybe Tyrod till we draft a great one again.

Imagine the talent we can accumulate and resign both Wagner and Williams and sign a couple of high value free agents too if 24M cap room was suddenly made available...

Edited January 12 by ellicottraven

[RaineV1]

With how stacked this class is at positions of need, I want us to trade down in the first. Obviously just pull the trigger if someone amazing happens to fall to 16. Barring that though, going down to 21 or 22 would be great. TJ Watt, Harris, or Anderson will be there to draft, and we'd have leverage to move around in the 2nd and 3rd with the extra picks gotten from trade down, giving us a shot at guys sliding further than expected.

[RavensDieHard21]

57 minutes ago, RaineV1 said:

With how stacked this class is at positions of need, I want us to trade down in the first. Obviously just pull the trigger if someone amazing happens to fall to 16. Barring that though, going down to 21 or 22 would be great. TJ Watt, Harris, or Anderson will be there to draft, and we'd have leverage to move around in the 2nd and 3rd with the extra picks gotten from trade down, giving us a shot at guys sliding further than expected.

Obviously outside of the unrealistic scenarios such as Garrett and Allen. Which players do we no doubt pull the trigger on at 16? 

[RaineV1]

10 minutes ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

Obviously outside of the unrealistic scenarios such as Garrett and Allen. Which players do we no doubt pull the trigger on at 16? 

For ones that aren't outside the realm of possibility, Hooker or Mike Williams. If one of them is available it's probably best to just pick them.

[Adreme]

2 hours ago, ellicottraven said:

If some team from the NFC preferably SF offered us their 1st and 2nd round picks this year and next year, I would consider it seriously. We would instantly be a better team assuming of course we can sign a good QB maybe Tyrod till we draft a great one again.

Imagine the talent we can accumulate and resign both Wagner and Williams and sign a couple of high value free agents too if 24M cap room was suddenly made available...

I do not believe that is how it works.  We wouldn'tbe getting this year's cap number just off the books by trading him because the,majority of it is a signing bonus that we are responsible for regardless of what team he is on.

Other people know the exact number better but I believe the Ravens would have less cap space if they traded him not more for weird salary cap reasons which is why if you do that you might as well say "we are going to browns it next year and hope for top 2 picks"

[rossihunter2]

3 hours ago, ellicottraven said:

If some team from the NFC preferably SF offered us their 1st and 2nd round picks this year and next year, I would consider it seriously. We would instantly be a better team assuming of course we can sign a good QB maybe Tyrod till we draft a great one again.

Imagine the talent we can accumulate and resign both Wagner and Williams and sign a couple of high value free agents too if 24M cap room was suddenly made available...

You do this and we have got to find a replacement qb for -11 million. I don't mean 11 million I mean negative 11 million. And that's just the first year - the first year we could conceivably get rid of Joe and not lose cap space is 2019 but even then we'd have something like 18 mill in dead money or something ridiculous like that

[Brandon Grist]

We Could Trade Lardaruis Webb An Sharece Wright To The Saints For A 6th Or 7th Round Conditional Pick In This Years Draft

[ellicottraven]

2 hours ago, Adreme said:

I do not believe that is how it works.  We wouldn'tbe getting this year's cap number just off the books by trading him because the,majority of it is a signing bonus that we are responsible for regardless of what team he is on.

Other people know the exact number better but I believe the Ravens would have less cap space if they traded him not more for weird salary cap reasons which is why if you do that you might as well say "we are going to browns it next year and hope for top 2 picks"

I'm confused now. Let's say we trade him with his contract. As long as the other team assumes his contract as is, it is just a function of us taking back his signing bonus portion prorated over the years he is not going to be here from them right? Why is it so difficult? His cap hit this year is 24M and if they assume his contract that will be their cap hit not ours because we don't have that player anymore. Now if they extend him and manage their own cap space that's a whole different issue, but they will assume his entire Ravens' financial obligation to Joe Flacco and pay the Ravens what is owed to them. At least that's the way it's supposed to work but I am no capologist either.

[rossihunter2]

9 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

I'm confused now. Let's say we trade him with his contract. As long as the other team assumes his contract as is, it is just a function of us taking back his signing bonus portion prorated over the years he is not going to be here from them right? Why is it so difficult? His cap hit this year is 24M and if they assume his contract that will be their cap hit not ours because we don't have that player anymore. Now if they extend him and manage their own cap space that's a whole different issue, but they will assume his entire Ravens' financial obligation to Joe Flacco and pay the Ravens what is owed to them. At least that's the way it's supposed to work but I am no capologist either.

But only 6 million of it is actually his salary - the other 18 million is signing bonus that has already been paid - we can't get rid of that - plus the rest of the prorated signing bonus for the next few years - the other team assumes our future financial obligation but we will have already paid a huge align of that contract in the bonus

[rmw10]

19 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

I'm confused now. Let's say we trade him with his contract. As long as the other team assumes his contract as is, it is just a function of us taking back his signing bonus portion prorated over the years he is not going to be here from them right? Why is it so difficult? His cap hit this year is 24M and if they assume his contract that will be their cap hit not ours because we don't have that player anymore. Now if they extend him and manage their own cap space that's a whole different issue, but they will assume his entire Ravens' financial obligation to Joe Flacco and pay the Ravens what is owed to them. At least that's the way it's supposed to work but I am no capologist either.

No, that's not how it works.  We've already paid the bonus money and that's stuck on your cap no matter what.  If you trade a player, this year's signing bonus money plus all bonus money going forward accelerates and hits as you trade the player.  Only the base salary becomes the responsibility of the acquiring team.

[redlobster]

I'm not advocating for the below:

 

Cutting/Trading/Retiring Flacco would cause -$22 million in Dead money. Won't happen this year or next.

Edited January 12 by redlobster

[ellicottraven]

2 hours ago, rmw10 said:

No, that's not how it works.  We've already paid the bonus money and that's stuck on your cap no matter what.  If you trade a player, this year's signing bonus money plus all bonus money going forward accelerates and hits as you trade the player.  Only the base salary becomes the responsibility of the acquiring team.

Hmm... that's interesting. So I guess this exercise in futility was indeed an exercise in futility!

[JoeyFlex5]

10 hours ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

Obviously outside of the unrealistic scenarios such as Garrett and Allen. Which players do we no doubt pull the trigger on at 16? 

As far as the FO goes I'd say Hooker, Barnett, Adams, and mike Williams.

fournette and cook are possibilities but would surprise me. 

For me personally I would throw in Sidney jones and Quincy Wilson as well. Charles Harris is a guy I personally like a lot there but I won't call him a no doubt guy 

[YorkCountyRaven]

11 hours ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

Obviously outside of the unrealistic scenarios such as Garrett and Allen. Which players do we no doubt pull the trigger on at 16? 

I would say the only no doubt triggers are...Hooker, Tabor, Barnett, and Adams

Obvious throw ins... Tim Williams, Dalvin Cook, Humphrey, and Jones

Some sleepers would honestly be Peppers and Cam Robinson... I know we want a DB or edge rush for the 1st pick but Cam Robinson would be an instant upgrade for our O-line. With Wagner and Ducasse pending FA. Peppers I have a feeling is going to be a flat out playmaker on the backend of any defense. He can also be thrown down in the box which is vital in the AFC north.

[Jacquouille]

7 hours ago, YorkCountyRaven said:

I would say the only no doubt triggers are...Hooker, Tabor, Barnett, and Adams

Obvious throw ins... Tim Williams, Dalvin Cook, Humphrey, and Jones

Some sleepers would honestly be Peppers and Cam Robinson... I know we want a DB or edge rush for the 1st pick but Cam Robinson would be an instant upgrade for our O-line. With Wagner and Ducasse pending FA. Peppers I have a feeling is going to be a flat out playmaker on the backend of any defense. He can also be thrown down in the box which is vital in the AFC north.

If we pick Humphrey I'm out. He's stiff as a board and can't turn his head. Even in the second I'm not taking him.

[JoeyFlex5]

8 hours ago, YorkCountyRaven said:

I would say the only no doubt triggers are...Hooker, Tabor, Barnett, and Adams

Obvious throw ins... Tim Williams, Dalvin Cook, Humphrey, and Jones

Some sleepers would honestly be Peppers and Cam Robinson... I know we want a DB or edge rush for the 1st pick but Cam Robinson would be an instant upgrade for our O-line. With Wagner and Ducasse pending FA. Peppers I have a feeling is going to be a flat out playmaker on the backend of any defense. He can also be thrown down in the box which is vital in the AFC north.

I don't think teams are looking at Humphrey and tabor as can't miss guys in the teens. Tabor is all name hype and a penalty magnet at the next level and Humphrey has struggled against good competition. Humphreys name has been sliding in mock drafts recently as well.

[ravensnation5220]

1 hour ago, Jacquouille said:

If we pick Humphrey I'm out. He's stiff as a board and can't turn his head. Even in the second I'm not taking him.

I think he does a good job at turning his head for the most part. If you don't believe me watch his 2015 Georgia tape.

 He's a press corner so Hes not going to be very fluid in his movement. Yet he makes up for it with premiere athletic ability. Besides Jimmy smith is still pretty stiff in his hips

Edited January 13 by ravensnation5220

[ravensnation5220]

8 hours ago, YorkCountyRaven said:

I would say the only no doubt triggers are...Hooker, Tabor, Barnett, and Adams

Obvious throw ins... Tim Williams, Dalvin Cook, Humphrey, and Jones

Some sleepers would honestly be Peppers and Cam Robinson... I know we want a DB or edge rush for the 1st pick but Cam Robinson would be an instant upgrade for our O-line. With Wagner and Ducasse pending FA. Peppers I have a feeling is going to be a flat out playmaker on the backend of any defense. He can also be thrown down in the box which is vital in the AFC north.

I wouldn't say Tabor at all. I like Wilson a lot more than tabor

[ravensnation5220]

2 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I don't think teams are looking at Humphrey and tabor as can't miss guys in the teens. Tabor is all name hype and a penalty magnet at the next level and Humphrey has struggled against good competition. Humphreys name has been sliding in mock drafts recently as well.

He didn't play that bad in the championship game. He had good coverage on Williams and had a hand on the ball on a jump ball. Williams just made a great play and kept his concentration. I think Humphrey is the best pure press corner in the draft. 

[YorkCountyRaven]

27 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

I wouldn't say Tabor at all. I like Wilson a lot more than tabor

I think they are both good corners and I think they will both go in the first round... The thing is tabor has more hype and on paper the measurables as of now appear to be better. We will have to wait until the combine... If Tabor hasn't been picked by the time we are on the clock don't be surprised if we select him.

[ravensnation5220]

6 minutes ago, YorkCountyRaven said:

I think they are both good corners and I think they will both go in the first round... The thing is tabor has more hype and on paper the measurables as of now appear to be better. We will have to wait until the combine... If Tabor hasn't been picked by the time we are on the clock don't be surprised if we select him.

On paper Wilson looks better at 6-1 215. And I'm not so sure we will he's known to have character issues and may not take coaching well. I'd prefer marlon humphrey even if alabama corners typically bust

[YorkCountyRaven]

43 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I don't think teams are looking at Humphrey and tabor as can't miss guys in the teens. Tabor is all name hype and a penalty magnet at the next level and Humphrey has struggled against good competition. Humphreys name has been sliding in mock drafts recently as well.

Eh, I partially agree with Humphrey. The thing is especially with corners, a bad game may slide them but a good combine will skyrocket them (Which I expect him to have a great combine). Humphrey has been impressive throughout his career at Alabama. Jimmy smith, Humphrey, and Tavon Young would be a very athletic group of corners.

[YorkCountyRaven]

8 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

On paper Wilson looks better at 6-1 215. And I'm not so sure we will he's known to have character issues and may not take coaching well. I'd prefer marlon humphrey even if alabama corners typically bust

Eh.. he's a bit on the heavy side for a true corner. He gets beat on 1 on 1 occasions periodically, If the QB's in college were all NFL material his tape would be different. He is aggressive and has good ball skills but I just think tabor is a better true corner. Just my opinion.

[ravensnation5220]

8 minutes ago, YorkCountyRaven said:

Eh.. he's a bit on the heavy side for a true corner. He gets beat on 1 on 1 occasions periodically, If the QB's in college were all NFL material his tape would be different. He is aggressive and has good ball skills but I just think tabor is a better true corner. Just my opinion.

I think its quite opposite. Humphrey just plays very big and physical at 6-1 195 which is a prototypical size for the position while Tabor measures at 6-0 201, tabor looks more boxy in the torso and he doesnt have the long arms that Humphrey does. Now like you said we need to see true measurables from the combine. Humphrey exceeds Tabor in character too

[YorkCountyRaven]

1 hour ago, ravensnation5220 said:

I think its quite opposite. Humphrey just plays very big and physical at 6-1 195 which is a prototypical size for the position while Tabor measures at 6-0 201, tabor looks more boxy in the torso and he doesnt have the long arms that Humphrey does. Now like you said we need to see true measurables from the combine. Humphrey exceeds Tabor in character too

I was speaking about Wilson being on the heavy side not Humphrey........ I like Humphrey, he's a very Athletic DB and has good ball skills.

Edited January 13 by YorkCountyRaven

[ravensnation5220]

7 minutes ago, YorkCountyRaven said:

I was speaking about Wilson being on the heavy side not Humphrey........ I like Humphrey, he's a very Athletic DB and has good ball skills.

Oh I see. I don't really like either of the Florida corners and it has nothing to do with the school. I just don't like either player

[Edgar]

On 1/12/2017 at 0:29 PM, RaineV1 said:

With how stacked this class is at positions of need, I want us to trade down in the first. Obviously just pull the trigger if someone amazing happens to fall to 16. Barring that though, going down to 21 or 22 would be great. TJ Watt, Harris, or Anderson will be there to draft, and we'd have leverage to move around in the 2nd and 3rd with the extra picks gotten from trade down, giving us a shot at guys sliding further than expected.

When is Watt projected? 

I'm on board with your suggestion as well. 

[RaineV1]

Just now, Edgar said:

When is Watt projected? 

I'm on board with your suggestion as well. 

Watt probably just moved a bit up in the draft thanks to Williams having issues that's coming to the surface. The first three edge guys off the board will be Garrett, Barnett, and Harris. The order of the next tier (Watt, Anderson, Taco Charlton, and Carl Lawson) will depend on teams' preferences. I think the Watt could go anywhere from the early twenties to the early 2nd round. Though I personally doubt he makes it into the second since some playoff team will probably grab him.

[ravensnation5220]

19 minutes ago, RaineV1 said:

Watt probably just moved a bit up in the draft thanks to Williams having issues that's coming to the surface. The first three edge guys off the board will be Garrett, Barnett, and Harris. The order of the next tier (Watt, Anderson, Taco Charlton, and Carl Lawson) will depend on teams' preferences. I think the Watt could go anywhere from the early twenties to the early 2nd round. Though I personally doubt he makes it into the second since some playoff team will probably grab him.

You forgot about Takk McKinley. He's probably right there in the mix with harris

[rossihunter2]

31 minutes ago, RaineV1 said:

Watt probably just moved a bit up in the draft thanks to Williams having issues that's coming to the surface. The first three edge guys off the board will be Garrett, Barnett, and Harris. The order of the next tier (Watt, Anderson, Taco Charlton, and Carl Lawson) will depend on teams' preferences. I think the Watt could go anywhere from the early twenties to the early 2nd round. Though I personally doubt he makes it into the second since some playoff team will probably grab him.

Maybe the Texans grab him lol - imagine both watts, clowney and mercilus all going after the qb at once lol