[News] 'Everything On The Table' With Potential Salary-Cap Casualties

[metalraven]

  9 minutes ago, eze17 said:

  14 minutes ago, The Greek said:

  28 minutes ago, eze17 said:

  1 hour ago, metalraven said:

Honestly, I'd like to see us draft DeShone Kizer. He may fall because he lacks experience (not even two full seasons as NDs starter). If he does, we should take him, groom him. I think he's going to be a great QB. He has all of the tangibles; but he has a very competitive spirit, and he's tough.

Depends on where he falls...I'd like to see us take a QB in the general area of the 4th round, or maybe the comp pick we get for KO...not saying we need to get rid of Joe, but grooming a backup QB has no negative that I can see. Mallet is not the answer, and will more than likely will be paid well over what he's worth by some other team.

i agree that some other team will offer more for mallett. we should draft a qb to possibly groom but wonder if we could live with lets say a ryan fitzpatrick if he is cheap enough.

No.

Double no

triple no

[OUravensfan]

3 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Sort of defeats the purpose of the drafted QB though.

For starters, I would like to see how many quality starting QBs there are in the league that sat behind somebody for literally like 3-5 years and "developed" into a good player. Aaron Rodgers is about the only example I see of this, and he sat 3 years... and that was over a decade ago. 

The entire benefit of rookie QBs playing well is that you get them for cheap. 

Good point, Palmer sat a full year behind Kitna is the other one that stands out, also a while ago.

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, b93333 said:

What in the world are you smoking?  His cap hit next year is 24.55 M per the Sunpapers.  Do you have some secret source?

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/joe-flacco-4000/cash-earnings/

1. Cap hit and how much the QB actually gets paid in a given year are two different things.

2. I'm partially wrong, because I didn't realize he has $15M of his signing bonus pushed to 2017, so he will actually be making $21M in 2017. But the other years are accurate

Cap hits are a compilation of many things, including base salaries and signing bonuses. Signing bonuses are generally paid up front at that time, and the player gets all of it at that time. A bonus is allowed to be prorated for up to 5 years across a contract.

So the player can get $20M at the time of signing, but from a cap perspective, the team can spread that out over 5 years, so $4M per season. That's an example, of course.

The point being that Joe isn't making like $22M every year like people think he is. Some years he makes $25-30M (he made $29M in 2016), some years he makes far less (scheduled for $12M in 2018). 

So when you talk about a deal "restructure", its practically never in the discussion of a paycut for a QB, and oftentimes a restructure would be converting future salaries into bonuses and spreading them out. The QB makes more in the short term, and the cap hit decreases.

All of this is moot, because I doubt they touch Joe's deal one year after he signed it. Its not prohibitive at all at this point.

[eze17]

Really?! Aren't we tight against the cap EVERY year? And I am still failing to see the value that we should be realizing by spending on some of these more veteran players.

We are constantly tight against the cap, have a really aging roster, have had poor drafts (save for last year's I hope), and are absolutely handcuffed by Joe's huge contract. For heaven's sake, Ben Roethlisberger (spelling?), Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, Cam Newton, Matt Stafford, and Matt Ryan made LESS than Joe last year and are all putting up numbers substantially better than Joe's ( and have been at some point in the MVP discussion ). Bad spending. Bad.

I would rather blow this thing up and know that we are trying to move forward than continue to put band aids on this mess in effort to "try and surround" Joe with the talent to win. You surround Teddy Bridgewater, Jay Cutler, Carson Palmer, Alex Smith with talent to help them win because they can't carry a team, - not top tier QBs like we are paying Joe to be.

If everyone in local and national media, and majority of the fans (and probably coaches) agree he is not the kind of QB that will carry a team, then why are we paying him like one then? And don't give me that "well that is what the market says he should be paid" garbage either, - see above.

Of course since I posted this, Joe will have an MVP season next year, we will have a top 5 offense AND defense, and we will win the Superbowl. Then I will eat my words, - and gladly!!

So...Newton, Stafford and Ryan: no championships. Rodgers & Wilson have same number of rings as Flacco. Give Big Ben his due, and Brady is being considered as one of the best QB's that has ever played in the NFL...

Can't carry A team? Did you even watch our Super Bowl year? 11 TD's with NO INT? Come on, man...

[rmcjacket23]

2 minutes ago, OUravensfan said:

Good point, Palmer sat a full year behind Kitna is the other one that stands out, also a while ago.

Right, but we're not talking about drafting a QB to sit one year.

If you're drafting a QB that needs to sit for like 3-4 years just so that MAYBE he can be a starter, you're better off not drafting that guy at all.

[OUravensfan]

3 minutes ago, eze17 said:

So...Newton, Stafford and Ryan: no championships. Rodgers & Wilson have same number of rings as Flacco. Give Big Ben his due, and Brady is being considered as one of the best QB's that has ever played in the NFL...

Can't carry A team? Did you even watch our Super Bowl year? 11 TD's with NO INT? Come on, man...

I still say Ben is incredibly overrated and has had great talent, either offensive or defensive, around him his whole career. Until last year he never made the playoffs without a top 5 defense.

[OUravensfan]

3 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Right, but we're not talking about drafting a QB to sit one year.

If you're drafting a QB that needs to sit for like 3-4 years just so that MAYBE he can be a starter, you're better off not drafting that guy at all.

I would agree, or you could always draft a 31 year old like Cleveland did.

Edited January 5 by OUravensfan

[griffrb]

Nothing new to report. We spend to the cap annually. Flacco's contract isn't as big an issue as his performance is. Fact: Mediocre QBs become very wealthy whether they win a Super Bowl or not. How good and what impact is the supporting cast having on the team's success? That's our puzzle with this team.

[Tdot.to.Bmore]

  11 minutes ago, Tdot.to.Bmore said:

If Flacco cares to win again he will help the team by restructuring. He has made enough money over the years and he is one of the main reasons our team is struggling. If he can't see this then we really need to look at QBs in the draft. Light a fire under him.

Doom and Webb must go just for the money.

Flacco is due to make just $6M next season. So you want him to restructure for less than that?

Of course i do when he has a signing bonus of $13,800,000 and another option bonus of $4,750,000.

Just because his base is $6M it doesn't mean he cant restructure. He could hypothetically drop the base to $1M and save us $5M this year.

[GageRage]

How about Joe restructures and cuts his millions, $44mill with 15 rolling over into this next year... 24 mill next year too. For an 8-8 QB. Jimmy Smith 12 mill hit 2017 with 13 mill in 2018 for a CB who's not even a top 30 CB in the NFL. Only reason why i'd keep Doom with that 8 mill price tag is because it's his last year and if we wants a chance to get onto another team or even stay you gotta notch more then 3 sacks this season and with lingering injuries. kinda makes me think he was either planning on taking the injury and dipping out to another team or exactly whats going on in waiting out the year for a healthy contract year.

[Tdot.to.Bmore]

  28 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Lets clear a few things up...

1. His contract would actually be quite easy to trade, and MANY teams would love to trade for him. A team trading for him would have to pay him the following:

2017: $6M
2018: $12M
2019: $18.5M
2020: $20.25M
2021: $24.25M

Needless to say, a TON of teams would die to get him locked into a deal like this for that period of time. IF the Ravens somehow decided to trade him, the issue wouldn't be lack of suitors or the contract. It would be finding quality compensation for us to get back, in the form of multiple top draft picks, which would be the barrier to such a trade.

2. The obvious reasons why he WON'T be traded is because we have no interest in trading him due to it being incredibly hard to find somebody equal or better for several years, and the fact that trading him would increase his cap hit for 2017 up to $47.3M, which is more than 25% of the overall salary cap. So you'll be punting 2017 entirely, regardless of what you get back for him. Will need to cut many, many other players just to get under the salary cap at that point.

Per the Sunpapers... cap hit of 24.55 M in '17, 24.75 M in '18, 26.5 M in '19.  Check your facts please.

rmcjacker23 is going off base salary. He doesn't understand that fFacco has huge signing bonuses lol. He can drop his $6M to $1M this year and still make a ton of money.

[eze17]

  32 minutes ago, eze17 said:

  1 hour ago, metalraven said:

"Part of the reason Baltimore’s salary cap is difficult to navigate is the fact that they have quarterback Joe Flacco signed to a $120 million contract. Having one of the league’s highest-paid quarterbacks eats up a sizable chunk of the cap space."

LOL - and what do we have to show for it?

Anyways, we're stuck, may as well make the best of it.

K. Lewis and Arrington just take up space. Doom has been almost worthless. So, bye, bye.

A super bowl championship. It's that simple. Joe got paid for winning the big one, like it or not (And what real Raven fan would take a good statistical QB over a SB ring?). Pretty good on his part for waiting out and getting SB MVP=extra big pay day.

I'm not questioning the decision to pay him. It had to be done. That's the market. Yes, Joe was smart for betting on himself. But post-super bowl, we have NOTHING to show for it. It's THAT simple. And who said anything about stats? I sure didn't. But since you brought it up, Joe's "stats" have sucked, and so has his record, since the SB.

Come on, you know that stat's were implied, or you wouldn't have brought them up...I'll take a QB who can win the big game over a fantasy stud ten times out of ten. It's that simple. Nothing to show? Well, personally I love to watch football, so as long as the Raven's are putting out a competitive team I'm all in. Yeah, the last two seasons have been disappointing. No denial there. But in the long haul, we've had great football. And I'm confidant we will have continued good fortune. Drinking the purple Kool-Aid? Yeah, to A degree. I certainly don't agree with everything that the FO & coaching staff do, nor deny that some players under perform. But to say that "well, Joe sucks" is A cop out, and ignoring the past. Flacco still has some good football in him...Just keep the faith.

[eze17]

Not sure that I get it.... I understand that we are paying flacco a lot and that he eats up a chunk of the cap... but isn't that most teams dilemma? Brady is making 20million per , Rogers and Ben 21 per and more around the league and these teams are still finding ways to do it... Yes Joe is getting a little more then those guys but not enough to break the bank more. (granted his production is not on par with those guys and that don't help) but

Just from a salary cap perspective... that shouldn't break the bank. We have two
starting RBs that come and a bargain basement price.

We have a starting LT on a rookie contract. (those are big #s for most teams).

We have nearly an entire defensive front 7 on rookie contracts (or at least price friendly contracts). (with the exception of Suggs)

We have a bunch of middle of the pay scale TEs

We have one high paid CB
Heck...we even have Weddle at a good deal

(we do have a few people over paid- Zuttah, Webb, probably Joe, Elvis,) some we have to eat and some we should re-negotiate or off load but I think Joes contract is more of an excuse... (other teams are doing it and finding ways to be successful in spite of paying their QBs big contracts).

We need to do a little better job negotiating some of these contracts.
BTW should the Ray Rice contract expire this season also clearing some cap room for us?

Nice post.

[eze17]

  35 minutes ago, metalraven said:

Ya. I don't think we even should get rid of Joe. Joe ain't exactly the best, but he's still a good starting QB, and you simply can't throw that away. But yes, picking up a QB in the draft, grooming him until Joe's contract expires (I believe the rookie contract will expire simultaneously...correct if I'm wrong on that), and HOPEFULLY feeling confident enough to start him. I know it's a long shot, but hey...

Sort of defeats the purpose of the drafted QB though.

For starters, I would like to see how many quality starting QBs there are in the league that sat behind somebody for literally like 3-5 years and "developed" into a good player. Aaron Rodgers is about the only example I see of this, and he sat 3 years... and that was over a decade ago. 

The entire benefit of rookie QBs playing well is that you get them for cheap. 

My original post was that we simply need to look for a decent back up QB...Flacco is certainly a pretty durable QB, but he has had a major injury. I wouldn't consider a 4th rounder, or as I said the comp pick for KO, A wasted pick to obtain A decent quality back up QB. Mallet, in my opinion, is not the answer. And I suspect that there will be teams willing to over pay him. Hopefully not the Raven's.

[mrc724]

I don't recall hearing Arrington and Kendrick Lewis' name being called in games this year. Yet, the Ravens a paying each of them, making over 2m a year, for what? If you watch the games, most of the pressure on Flacco comes up the middle, Zuttah's center position. We could have cut him, saved over 7M a year, and used part of the money to sign Osemele. He's in the playoff, where are the Ravens. He made the Ravens look like chumps when they played the Raiders.

[mrc724]

Excuse me, Zuttah makes over 4M, sorry.

[rmcjacket23]

15 minutes ago, Tdot.to.Bmore said:

rmcjacker23 is going off base salary. He doesn't understand that fFacco has huge signing bonuses lol. He can drop his $6M to $1M this year and still make a ton of money.

lol, no, I'm not the one that doesn't understand. You are the one that doesn't understand. Allow me to explain to you how bonuses work...

A signing bonus, by definition, is what it is... its called a SIGNING bonus. Its paid WHEN YOU SIGN. That's why its called a SIGNING bonus. 

Joe's SIGNING bonus was last season, and it was $40M. At the time I originally posted this, I assumed that the entire signing bonus was paid at that time, because it normally was (much in the way his $29M signing bonus from his original deal was paid all at once). Since then, through research (which is clearly not something you did), it appears that Joe deferred a portion of his signing bonus to 2017... $15M to be exact.

The below website, of which there are several similar one's, give a breakdown of his CASH earnings compared to his CAP earnings, which for like the 100th time on these boards, are NOT identical. 

And what's laughable is that you think its OK for Joe to just slash his salary down to $1M (which I believe would actually be below the veteran minimum, so he couldn't do that anyway) as if the guy is only giving veteran minimum production. That is laughable of course. 

In particular, I find it laughable when fans always ask pro athletes to take paycuts that, of course, no fan would ever actually do themselves. I would love to hear when a fan comes and says "hey guys, I slashed my salary by 50% today, so other employees I work with can make more". I'm still waiting on that to happen, but I won't, because it won't happen.

Always fun to listen to people give advice to more valuable people about what they should do with their money. Ain't spending or giving away other people's money great?

What a joke.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/joe-flacco-4000/cash-earnings/

[ellicottraven]

1 hour ago, Raven1995 said:

We still have 2 more years to go. After the 2018 season would be the 1st year to try, if they tried earlier it would be too much Dead Money.

Nobody is professing to cut Flacco or even trade him. All I'm saying is it is a good idea to bring in a rookie to train under him and be a viable back up till it's time for Flacco to go or till his contract ends. Good teams are always prepared with good alternatives. I don't know if Mallet is coming back.

[eze17]

  48 minutes ago, b93333 said:

  54 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Lets clear a few things up...

1. His contract would actually be quite easy to trade, and MANY teams would love to trade for him. A team trading for him would have to pay him the following:

2017: $6M
2018: $12M
2019: $18.5M
2020: $20.25M
2021: $24.25M

Needless to say, a TON of teams would die to get him locked into a deal like this for that period of time. IF the Ravens somehow decided to trade him, the issue wouldn't be lack of suitors or the contract. It would be finding quality compensation for us to get back, in the form of multiple top draft picks, which would be the barrier to such a trade.

2. The obvious reasons why he WON'T be traded is because we have no interest in trading him due to it being incredibly hard to find somebody equal or better for several years, and the fact that trading him would increase his cap hit for 2017 up to $47.3M, which is more than 25% of the overall salary cap. So you'll be punting 2017 entirely, regardless of what you get back for him. Will need to cut many, many other players just to get under the salary cap at that point.

Per the Sunpapers... cap hit of 24.55 M in '17, 24.75 M in '18, 26.5 M in '19.  Check your facts please.

rmcjacker23 is going off base salary. He doesn't understand that fFacco has huge signing bonuses lol. He can drop his $6M to $1M this year and still make a ton of money.

Yeah, you'd give up five million... Come on, man! Live in reality...

[rmcjacket23]

5 minutes ago, eze17 said:

My original post was that we simply need to look for a decent back up QB...Flacco is certainly a pretty durable QB, but he has had a major injury. I wouldn't consider a 4th rounder, or as I said the comp pick for KO, A wasted pick to obtain A decent quality back up QB. Mallet, in my opinion, is not the answer. And I suspect that there will be teams willing to over pay him. Hopefully not the Raven's.

I guess I'm not opposed to it, but I will point out that there are some decent backup QBs in this league, and a lot of them were 1st, 2nd or even 3rd round picks, or veterans that have been around for awhile.

I think its a bit presumptuous to draft a 4th rounder and just assume he's capable of being a backup QB right away. There's teams drafting 1st and 2nd rounders who can't even make the active roster on gameday on teams with far worse QB situations. That tells you how bad a lot of the QBs coming out of the draft are these days.

Frankly, if we used a 4th rounder on a QB, I'd suspect he'd spend a year or two as the 3rd QB (basically a PS player), meaning he's pretty useless. No way am I taking a 4th rounder and making him the backup in year 1.

Plus, as I said earlier, I'm not really interested in spending a 4th rounder on a guy that, ideally, will never play a snap for you. 6th or 7th rounder, sure, because those guys rarely plays snaps for us anyway. But we get starters and quality players out of 4th round picks all the time.

I'd rather just sign a veteran backup if that's the route we are going. I'd trust Mallett over a 4th rounder, and retaining Mallett won't be that difficult.

[sami]

  1 hour ago, eze17 said:

  2 hours ago, metalraven said:

Honestly, I'd like to see us draft DeShone Kizer. He may fall because he lacks experience (not even two full seasons as NDs starter). If he does, we should take him, groom him. I think he's going to be a great QB. He has all of the tangibles; but he has a very competitive spirit, and he's tough.

Depends on where he falls...I'd like to see us take a QB in the general area of the 4th round, or maybe the comp pick we get for KO...not saying we need to get rid of Joe, but grooming a backup QB has no negative that I can see. Mallet is not the answer, and will more than likely will be paid well over what he's worth by some other team.

i agree that some other team will offer more for mallett. we should draft a qb to possibly groom but wonder if we could live with lets say a ryan fitzpatrick if he is cheap enough.

yeah cuz Ryan Fitzpatrick has done so well in the playoffs. Joe has the ability to play and win if he has the right offense to run. Its that way with most great QBs. If Brady had been drafted by the Browns or Tampa bay, you would have never heard of him. We need to make the offense fit Joe since we are tied to him becuz of his contract.

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, eze17 said:

Yeah, you'd give up five million... Come on, man! Live in reality...

Its not even giving up $5M. Its just giving up whatever percentage of whatever he makes.

Even if he makes $50K a year... show me the guy walking around who's willing to give up even 10% of that so other employees around him can make more money, which is the only reason we're asking Joe for a paycut.

And you're asking Joe to take like 85% less. I'm saying he personally wouldn't even take 10% less. 

Its called being a hypocrite.

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, sami said:

yeah cuz Ryan Fitzpatrick has done so well in the playoffs. Joe has the ability to play and win if he has the right offense to run. Its that way with most great QBs. If Brady had been drafted by the Browns or Tampa bay, you would have never heard of him. We need to make the offense fit Joe since we are tied to him becuz of his contract.

He's talking about Fitz as a backup, not as a starter.

[ellicottraven]

  37 minutes ago, Tdot.to.Bmore said:

rmcjacker23 is going off base salary. He doesn't understand that fFacco has huge signing bonuses lol. He can drop his $6M to $1M this year and still make a ton of money.

lol, no, I'm not the one that doesn't understand. You are the one that doesn't understand. Allow me to explain to you how bonuses work...

A signing bonus, by definition, is what it is... its called a SIGNING bonus. Its paid WHEN YOU SIGN. That's why its called a SIGNING bonus. 

Joe's SIGNING bonus was last season, and it was $40M. At the time I originally posted this, I assumed that the entire signing bonus was paid at that time, because it normally was (much in the way his $29M signing bonus from his original deal was paid all at once). Since then, through research (which is clearly not something you did), it appears that Joe deferred a portion of his signing bonus to 2017... $15M to be exact.

The below website, of which there are several similar one's, give a breakdown of his CASH earnings compared to his CAP earnings, which for like the 100th time on these boards, are NOT identical. 

And what's laughable is that you think its OK for Joe to just slash his salary down to $1M (which I believe would actually be below the veteran minimum, so he couldn't do that anyway) as if the guy is only giving veteran minimum production. That is laughable of course. 

In particular, I find it laughable when fans always ask pro athletes to take paycuts that, of course, no fan would ever actually do themselves. I would love to hear when a fan comes and says "hey guys, I slashed my salary by 50% today, so other employees I work with can make more". I'm still waiting on that to happen, but I won't, because it won't happen.

Always fun to listen to people give advice to more valuable people about what they should do with their money. Ain't spending or giving away other people's money great?

What a joke.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/joe-flacco-4000/cash-earnings/

I don't know if it would be that outlandish to expect a particular employee making 15-20% of the total salary allocation to take a pay cut so the other 52 employees can share some of the money that guy eating up 15-20% of that entire pie gives up some. obviously it is a stupid analogy because a 50K guy needs 60K for survival, but a 20M guy doesn't need 20M for survival...

But, importantly we cannot expect anybody that's negotiated a contracted salary to take a pay cut because they haven't performed commensurate with their remuneration. That should've been thought of prior to the contract. Having said all that, if Joe really wants the Ravens to put together a strong team around him, it wouldn't be ridiculous if he did offer to be accomodating with his salary structure or even giving up some money to hire a veteran guard or Center.

But, if truth be told, even if Joe wanted to do it, Linta will not allow it.

[ibleedpurpleandblack]

How about Joe restructures and cuts his millions, $44mill with 15 rolling over into this next year... 24 mill next year too. For an 8-8 QB. Jimmy Smith 12 mill hit 2017 with 13 mill in 2018 for a CB who's not even a top 30 CB in the NFL. Only reason why i'd keep Doom with that 8 mill price tag is because it's his last year and if we wants a chance to get onto another team or even stay you gotta notch more then 3 sacks this season and with lingering injuries. kinda makes me think he was either planning on taking the injury and dipping out to another team or exactly whats going on in waiting out the year for a healthy contract year.

How about you take a pay cut and free up some salary for your company?!?!?!?!

He's not an 8-8 QB, THE TEAM IS 8-8. The TEXANS gave Osweiler $72 million for 4 years - what's that terd done? How many post season games has he won? Matt Ryan's contract was $104 million for 5 years - He's got 1 post season win and he's had 2 pro-bowl receivers his entire career in Roddy White, Julio Jones and had FHOF Tony Gonzalez. Ya'll act like other teams aren't paying premium contracts for top tier QB's. Maybe we should be like the Browns and just get garbage QB's and hope to win every week. How many 4th qrtr leads did the defense give up this season? Nobody is talking about any of those players taking a cut. Hell Webb's hit was $9. million - did we get $9 million worth of performance out of him this year? Think he had 1 pick right? Dumervil was $7 million hit - he started 3 games had 3 sacks. Elam's was $2 million and he managed 4 tackles!!! Wright's hit was $2 million - shiiii give me a uniform, 2 million dollars and I'll run around and let people beat me all day long!!! Powers' hit was $1.7 million - are you kidding me!?!?!? He doesn't even deserve to be paid!!

[eze17]

  1 hour ago, GageRage said:

How about Joe restructures and cuts his millions, $44mill with 15 rolling over into this next year... 24 mill next year too. For an 8-8 QB. Jimmy Smith 12 mill hit 2017 with 13 mill in 2018 for a CB who's not even a top 30 CB in the NFL. Only reason why i'd keep Doom with that 8 mill price tag is because it's his last year and if we wants a chance to get onto another team or even stay you gotta notch more then 3 sacks this season and with lingering injuries. kinda makes me think he was either planning on taking the injury and dipping out to another team or exactly whats going on in waiting out the year for a healthy contract year.

How about you take a pay cut and free up some salary for your company?!?!?!?!

He's not an 8-8 QB, THE TEAM IS 8-8. The TEXANS gave Osweiler $72 million for 4 years - what's that terd done? How many post season games has he won? Matt Ryan's contract was $104 million for 5 years - He's got 1 post season win and he's had 2 pro-bowl receivers his entire career in Roddy White, Julio Jones and had FHOF Tony Gonzalez. Ya'll act like other teams aren't paying premium contracts for top tier QB's. Maybe we should be like the Browns and just get garbage QB's and hope to win every week. How many 4th qrtr leads did the defense give up this season? Nobody is talking about any of those players taking a cut. Hell Webb's hit was $9. million - did we get $9 million worth of performance out of him this year? Think he had 1 pick right? Dumervil was $7 million hit - he started 3 games had 3 sacks. Elam's was $2 million and he managed 4 tackles!!! Wright's hit was $2 million - shiiii give me a uniform, 2 million dollars and I'll run around and let people beat me all day long!!! Powers' hit was $1.7 million - are you kidding me!?!?!? He doesn't even deserve to be paid!!

Hit the nail on the head! Righteous post!

[Purple_City39]

3 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

I don't know if it would be that outlandish to expect a particular employee making 15-20% of the total salary allocation to take a pay cut so the other 52 employees can share some of the money that guy eating up 15-20% of that entire pie gives up some. obviously it is a stupid analogy because a 50K guy needs 60K for survival, but a 20M guy doesn't need 20M for survival...

But, importantly we cannot expect anybody that's negotiated a contracted salary to take a pay cut because they haven't performed commensurate with their remuneration. That should've been thought of prior to the contract. Having said all that, if Joe really wants the Ravens to put together a strong team around him, it wouldn't be ridiculous if he did offer to be accomodating with his salary structure or even giving up some money to hire a veteran guard or Center.

But, if truth be told, even if Joe wanted to do it, Linta will not allow it.

It's incredibly outlandish.  I'd love to see an example of CEOs (since they make far more than 50k) giving up their salary to the employees can have more money.

I don't get the focus on Joe's contract.  How is Ben making about 1 million per year average, and has better talent around him on offense AND still has some decent talent on defense?  How did Peyton, before he retired, make 20M per season and STILL have pretty good offensive talent AND a dominant defense??

It gets old seeing people blame Joe's contract yearly if this team doesn't do great.  

[Tdot.to.Bmore]

  29 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

  52 minutes ago, Tdot.to.Bmore said:

rmcjacker23 is going off base salary. He doesn't understand that fFacco has huge signing bonuses lol. He can drop his $6M to $1M this year and still make a ton of money.

lol, no, I'm not the one that doesn't understand. You are the one that doesn't understand. Allow me to explain to you how bonuses work...

A signing bonus, by definition, is what it is... its called a SIGNING bonus. Its paid WHEN YOU SIGN. That's why its called a SIGNING bonus. 

Joe's SIGNING bonus was last season, and it was $40M. At the time I originally posted this, I assumed that the entire signing bonus was paid at that time, because it normally was (much in the way his $29M signing bonus from his original deal was paid all at once). Since then, through research (which is clearly not something you did), it appears that Joe deferred a portion of his signing bonus to 2017... $15M to be exact.

The below website, of which there are several similar one's, give a breakdown of his CASH earnings compared to his CAP earnings, which for like the 100th time on these boards, are NOT identical. 

And what's laughable is that you think its OK for Joe to just slash his salary down to $1M (which I believe would actually be below the veteran minimum, so he couldn't do that anyway) as if the guy is only giving veteran minimum production. That is laughable of course. 

In particular, I find it laughable when fans always ask pro athletes to take paycuts that, of course, no fan would ever actually do themselves. I would love to hear when a fan comes and says "hey guys, I slashed my salary by 50% today, so other employees I work with can make more". I'm still waiting on that to happen, but I won't, because it won't happen.

Always fun to listen to people give advice to more valuable people about what they should do with their money. Ain't spending or giving away other people's money great?

What a joke.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/joe-flacco-4000/cash-earnings/

I don't know if it would be that outlandish to expect a particular employee making 15-20% of the total salary allocation to take a pay cut so the other 52 employees can share some of the money that guy eating up 15-20% of that entire pie gives up some. obviously it is a stupid analogy because a 50K guy needs 60K for survival, but a 20M guy doesn't need 20M for survival...

But, importantly we cannot expect anybody that's negotiated a contracted salary to take a pay cut because they haven't performed commensurate with their remuneration. That should've been thought of prior to the contract. Having said all that, if Joe really wants the Ravens to put together a strong team around him, it wouldn't be ridiculous if he did offer to be accomodating with his salary structure or even giving up some money to hire a veteran guard or Center.

But, if truth be told, even if Joe wanted to do it, Linta will not allow it.

This is all i was trying to say and then some people catch feelings on this thread and go on a rant. I just used saving $5M as an example lol.

rmcjacket23 for GM 2018 folks!!!

[rmcjacket23]

6 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

I don't know if it would be that outlandish to expect a particular employee making 15-20% of the total salary allocation to take a pay cut so the other 52 employees can share some of the money that guy eating up 15-20% of that entire pie gives up some. obviously it is a stupid analogy because a 50K guy needs 60K for survival, but a 20M guy doesn't need 20M for survival...

But, importantly we cannot expect anybody that's negotiated a contracted salary to take a pay cut because they haven't performed commensurate with their remuneration. That should've been thought of prior to the contract. Having said all that, if Joe really wants the Ravens to put together a strong team around him, it wouldn't be ridiculous if he did offer to be accomodating with his salary structure or even giving up some money to hire a veteran guard or Center.

But, if truth be told, even if Joe wanted to do it, Linta will not allow it.

I mean you can play that game all day long. In the grand scheme of things, you're asking one multi-millionaire to take a paycut so another multi-millionaire can be a bigger multi-millionaire, or so that a guy making a few hundred thousand can become a millionaire. We're not even asking him to take a paycut to feed the need or the hungry... we are literally asking him to take a paycut so we can SELFISHLY think we are getting a better team.

Not to mention that him taking a paycut doesn't even remotely guarantee that the team will be better, and it ignores the fact that the other 52 players aren't all equal, certainly aren't as valuable as the guy making 15-20% of the money, and you may be giving the excess money to somebody who either doesn't deserve it or won't produce at a level that reflects that compensation.

That's why all these examples and scenarios suck, and its why the only time you see teams asking players for paycuts is when the team itself actually has leverage to do so, i.e. the threat of cutting the player. There's no threat of cutting Joe, and so he holds all the leverage. 

So if I were Joe, and you asked me for a paycut, I'd simply say "no thanks". And there's practically nothing the FO could do about it. AND then I'd recommend you go to any of the half dozen or more other players not pulling their contract weight and ask them for a paycut.

That's what I would do.

[The Greek]

  1 hour ago, The Greek said:

  1 hour ago, eze17 said:

  2 hours ago, metalraven said:

Honestly, I'd like to see us draft DeShone Kizer. He may fall because he lacks experience (not even two full seasons as NDs starter). If he does, we should take him, groom him. I think he's going to be a great QB. He has all of the tangibles; but he has a very competitive spirit, and he's tough.

Depends on where he falls...I'd like to see us take a QB in the general area of the 4th round, or maybe the comp pick we get for KO...not saying we need to get rid of Joe, but grooming a backup QB has no negative that I can see. Mallet is not the answer, and will more than likely will be paid well over what he's worth by some other team.

i agree that some other team will offer more for mallett. we should draft a qb to possibly groom but wonder if we could live with lets say a ryan fitzpatrick if he is cheap enough.

yeah cuz Ryan Fitzpatrick has done so well in the playoffs. Joe has the ability to play and win if he has the right offense to run. Its that way with most great QBs. If Brady had been drafted by the Browns or Tampa bay, you would have never heard of him. We need to make the offense fit Joe since we are tied to him becuz of his contract.

as a backup not a starter sami