No changes made to top coaching staff? Lower level changes, though.

[ravensdfan]

5 hours ago, redrum52 said:

I can almost guarantee everytime the offense even sniffed 30 it was becuase the defense gave them extra possesions woth excellent field position, which is kind of ironic.. also, it seems a lot of the efforts recently have been made to help the offense yet again, they struggled.  Complain about the defense all you want, but offense has been atrocious 3 of the four years since Joe was re-signed.

 

One of those years, Joe was out due to injury. But I'll play - two years since that SB the defense collapses and cost us a playoff appearance or a chance to advance. Blew 2 14 pt leads in NE and then this season gave up 21 pts in the 4th. But yeah, it's all the offense lol

But that is pretty much my point. Better give the offense the love because nothing but a high powered offense will save the defense from itself.

As for the "help" for the offense - oh my! one year we went offense for our 1st 2 picks! the horror! lol We have given the defense all the love for Pees time here and all we get are the same old, same old.

Edited January 4 by ravensdfan

[Jonah DeVito]

1 hour ago, K-Dog said:

There needs to be a box for "indifferent ".

I am in the minority I guess in that I don't think any of the big three are  *terrible *.

I am giving them the benefit of that doubt that at some point in time between now and August they will sit down and analyze their strengths and weaknesses.  I think there will be more than a few brainstorming sessions over the summer. 

Bottom line is, John Harbaugh knows more about being a coach in the NFL than anybody here. He might not run things the way many of us would, but he has the right to run things the way he wants.  It seems he has earned it. 

I agree that none of them are terrible. I feel that if Marty would make a few changes he can be a decent OC. Dean isn't a bad DC either, however, he lacks the ability to make strong adjustments as the game goes on and somehow disappears in the 4th. 

[Grapple Raven]

As for changes to the coaching staff, I may be in the minority here but:

The rushing stats since Castillo was brought in in his first full season in 2013-2014:

2013-0214:  30th in rushing yards, 30th in rushing yards per game, 32nd in rushing yards per attempt.

2015-2016:  26th in rushing yards and 26th in rushing yards per game, 24th in rushing yards per attempt.

2016-2017:  28th in rushing yards, 28th in rushing yards per game, 21st in rushing yards per attempt.

 

The one outlier was 2014-2015 when Kubiak was here with Dennison helping installing Kubiak's strategies with the offensive line:

2014-2015:  8th in rushing yards, 8th in rushing yards per game, 7th in rushing yards per attempt.

 

You have to ask the question is this why we aren't running the ball more?  Because we can't run it with any success?  We had lesser backs than probably what Castillo had in all those years, especially since Kubiak's year was without Ray Rice and he did much better.   What is Harbs seeing in those stats or is he blinded by loyalty?  Castillo might can coach fundamentals and technique, but he has no business being in charge of a run game, offensive line or whatever the hell title Harbs gives him to justify his job.  The common denominator in the stats above is Castillo.  This is beyond ridiculous.

 

[redrum52]

2 minutes ago, ravensdfan said:

One of those years, Joe was out due to injury. But that is pretty much my point. Better give the offense the love because nothing but a high powered offense will save the defense from itself.

I have absolutely no problem investing in the offense if they will get the job done, but there needs to be some semblance of a defense if a championship is the goal.  And recently the FO gas been putting work in on offense.  Id live a pass rusher or cb with our first pick, but have no provlem with it going to OL or a wr we think will actually come in and produce.

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

At first I had mixed feelings about the coordinators and getting rid of them but after the last game at the Bengals and the excuse was the team had a hard time getting up for that game after the emotional loss at the Steelers. ??? That loss would not have been an elimination game if they would have taken care of business earlier in the season weeks 4-7 Raiders, Redskins (BOTH HOME GAMES). Giants and Jets. 4 game losing skid and each week "we are going to get better" I don't know about you but I never saw the improvement. This team has had a hard time finding emotion and playing with URGENCY the last few seasons.

Nothing we can do about it as fans but I sure hope someone or something lights a fire under the right peoples bottoms to get us back into the playoffs and to be able to get ready and play for a full 60 minutes for each and every game the team takes the field!!! That is on both the coaching staff and players but we heard it all week how it was going to be a pride game and how you go out to win. The way the Ravens played the Bengals game just looked pathetic!!!!PERIOD!!!

[Shoreguy]

The question is not who to fire, but if you do, who is actually available that is an upgrade to the current coaching staff? Most of the good coaches are going to stay with their current teams or take HC jobs. Ravens actually got lucky when they got harbaugh, as he was a special teams coach from Philadelphia. A very unlikely candidate for a head coaching spot. So who's available...its easy to say "fire this guy or that guy" but at the end of the day there has to be someone creditable to hire. Who are they???

There is no guarantee that a successful coach at a lower level will be successful being promoted....look at Dallas...it took how many years for their HC to have success?? Belichek disciples have been hit or miss without the New England system. Marvin Lewis was increcibly successful here in Baltimore, but in Cindy, struggled for a long time. College coaches tend to need time to become successful transitioning from the college game to the pro game....and other than Belichek..what other coach in the NFL has had a long term consistent success, year after year? 

 

[darklight1216]

6 hours ago, ravensdfan said:

We all know that old definition of insanity right? But yeah, keep Pees and watch your defense fold consistently when it matters late in games. Please.

Better give the offense all the love because, as I stated before, this offense is going to have to put up 30 or better every game with Pees' brand of defense.

I kind of get retaining Marty, he did not have an entire season after all. But Pees has proven over his 5 seasons he is not the answer.

At least we're interviewing for a QB coach.

I tend to take the opposite approach: it is a proven fact that Pees is good enough to win a SB with. What more can you ask for? Marty has shown nothing to distinguish himself from Trestman.

But then again, the defense nearly let the Superbowl slip away from them just like they have done in so many recent games. 

5 hours ago, Jonah DeVito said:

I was hoping Pees would retire, as I knew John wouldn't make the move to get rid of Pees himself. 

Now that you mention it, I'm not sure if Harbs has ever fired a DC. Rex and Pagano left for HC positions and Mattison chose to coach college ball. Am I missing anyone?

21 minutes ago, Grapple Raven said:

As for changes to the coaching staff, I may be in the minority here but:

The rushing stats since Castillo was brought in in his first full season in 2013-2014:

2013-0214:  30th in rushing yards, 30th in rushing yards per game, 32nd in rushing yards per attempt.

2015-2016:  26th in rushing yards and 26th in rushing yards per game, 24th in rushing yards per attempt.

2016-2017:  28th in rushing yards, 28th in rushing yards per game, 21st in rushing yards per attempt.

 

The one outlier was 2014-2015 when Kubiak was here with Dennison helping installing Kubiak's strategies with the offensive line:

2014-2015:  8th in rushing yards, 8th in rushing yards per game, 7th in rushing yards per attempt.

 

You have to ask the question is this why we aren't running the ball more?  Because we can't run it with any success?  We had lesser backs than probably what Castillo had in all those years, especially since Kubiak's year was without Ray Rice and he did much better.   What is Harbs seeing in those stats or is he blinded by loyalty?  Castillo might can coach fundamentals and technique, but he has no business being in charge of a run game, offensive line or whatever the hell title Harbs gives him to justify his job.  The common denominator in the stats above is Castillo.  This is beyond ridiculous.

 

That is so awful. I knew Baltimore didn't have a good offense, that's the story of the franchise, but this is just... wow. When you consider the fact that they usually don't have an excellent passing attack either and couple that with a defense that only plays for 3/4 of the game, it is actually no wonder they struggle so much in every single game. 

[RayRayRaven]

I gave grappleraven a big like and agree we have let our running game sour.  still, we will be right back here next year with old coaches and older mindsets.  its way past time

[K-Dog]

John Eisenberg, a writer whose opinion I greatly respect wrote this on the main page earlier today.  

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/Eisenberg-Regardless-Of-Who-Is-Coordinator-Ravens-Offensive-Philosophy-Needs-A-Makeover/923715ce-9ea8-446a-a924-505cb746a1af

 

It pretty much sums up my thoughts perfectly.

FTA 

Quote

But honestly, I’m not even that focused on WHO the OC is so much as WHAT he does going forward. Regardless of who is in charge, the Ravens’ offensive philosophy needs a makeover.

THIS is why I am not bent out of shape they are keeping Marty. 

[PurpleCity5]

Don't think Marty should have stayed but keeping Pees was the right move. My gripe with Pees is his defense tends to break down in the 4th and that's been a common theme for the past 3 years. A failure to close, outside of that injuries just seem to do him in every season. People really don't realize just how important Jimmy is to this defense. 

[ravensdfan]

10 hours ago, redrum52 said:

I have absolutely no problem investing in the offense if they will get the job done, but there needs to be some semblance of a defense if a championship is the goal.  And recently the FO gas been putting work in on offense.  Id live a pass rusher or cb with our first pick, but have no provlem with it going to OL or a wr we think will actually come in and produce.

I don't disagree that we need a pass rusher & CB, I just have an issue throwing draft picks at a Pees' led defense that has shown it cannot close out games consistently for five seasons.

The OL needs love if we want the offense to be successful and I would agree on WR except that quite honestly we just don't seem to be able to scout WRs properly at all. I hate the bring in old on their last legs FAs to "build" the offense and then people claim we gave the offense the love & expect them to perform. The defense got 95% of the top draft picks the last 5 years and still has the same issues as before. So why don't you expect them to get the job done?

I have said this forever and a day, if Pees is staying, the offense needs to be a high powered offense. That is not going to happen plugging holes with old FAs. So if we get our CB and our pass rusher, then when the defense collapes yet again next season, there is no excuse right? Because seriously, it is just some new excuse for Pees every season.

[redrum52]

6 hours ago, ravensdfan said:

I don't disagree that we need a pass rusher & CB, I just have an issue throwing draft picks at a Pees' led defense that has shown it cannot close out games consistently for five seasons.

The OL needs love if we want the offense to be successful and I would agree on WR except that quite honestly we just don't seem to be able to scout WRs properly at all. I hate the bring in old on their last legs FAs to "build" the offense and then people claim we gave the offense the love & expect them to perform. The defense got 95% of the top draft picks the last 5 years and still has the same issues as before. So why don't you expect them to get the job done?

I have said this forever and a day, if Pees is staying, the offense needs to be a high powered offense. That is not going to happen plugging holes with old FAs. So if we get our CB and our pass rusher, then when the defense collapes yet again next season, there is no excuse right? Because seriously, it is just some new excuse for Pees every season.

We drafted Perriman and Stanley with our last 2 1s, one of which was a top 10 pick.  What did the offense do last season?  If you are going to demand something from one side at least be consistent.  You claimed when picks were going to the defensive side they should improve.  A lot has been sent the offense way and NOTHING.

 

And of course the defense was going to get more picks because when the players were selected they had taken a bigger hit on that side after the sb.

 

What do you qualify as top picks?

Edited January 4 by redrum52

[Adreme]

1 minute ago, redrum52 said:

We drafted Perriman and Stanley with our last 2 1s, one of which was a top 10 pick.  What did the offense do last season?  If yiu are foing to demand something from one side at least be consistent.  Yiu cliamed when picks were coing to the defensive side they should improve.  A lot has been sent the offense way and NOTHING.

You do not expect your rookies  (and let's be honest both were rookies) to be lighting up the field.  Perriman showed flashes of greatness and Stanley was consistently great the second half of the year.

[redrum52]

2 minutes ago, Adreme said:

You do not expect your rookies  (and let's be honest both were rookies) to be lighting up the field.  Perriman showed flashes of greatness and Stanley was consistently great the second half of the year.

Thats not my point.  Why is it the defensive rookies are expected to come in and be all Pros but not the other side of the ball where the rules are catered to help you.  And yes he played great but what were the results?  The offense  was still streaky at best.

[redrum52]

To top off this argument, in each of the drafts since 2013, not counting 16, most of the players kept from each draft have been on the offensive side of the ball.  From 2013, the only production we saw was from Williams.  It's very likely none of the top 4 picks from that draft will even be on this team next year with 2 already gone and one a bust who's here cause of lack of depth. 

[Adreme]

1 hour ago, redrum52 said:

Thats not my point.  Why is it the defensive rookies are expected to come in and be all Pros but not the other side of the ball where the rules are catered to help you.  And yes he played great but what were the results?  The offense  was still streaky at best.

Let's not mince words, the interior of the OL was terrible  (excluding Yanda).  It is very hard to be successful when the interior of you line is terrible especially when that is where the Ravens would prefer to run and let's not even get into the nightmare it makes trying to have a passing game.

[Purple Punishment]

19 hours ago, Grapple Raven said:

As for changes to the coaching staff, I may be in the minority here but:

The rushing stats since Castillo was brought in in his first full season in 2013-2014:

2013-0214:  30th in rushing yards, 30th in rushing yards per game, 32nd in rushing yards per attempt.

2015-2016:  26th in rushing yards and 26th in rushing yards per game, 24th in rushing yards per attempt.

2016-2017:  28th in rushing yards, 28th in rushing yards per game, 21st in rushing yards per attempt.

 

The one outlier was 2014-2015 when Kubiak was here with Dennison helping installing Kubiak's strategies with the offensive line:

2014-2015:  8th in rushing yards, 8th in rushing yards per game, 7th in rushing yards per attempt.

 

You have to ask the question is this why we aren't running the ball more?  Because we can't run it with any success?  We had lesser backs than probably what Castillo had in all those years, especially since Kubiak's year was without Ray Rice and he did much better.   What is Harbs seeing in those stats or is he blinded by loyalty?  Castillo might can coach fundamentals and technique, but he has no business being in charge of a run game, offensive line or whatever the hell title Harbs gives him to justify his job.  The common denominator in the stats above is Castillo.  This is beyond ridiculous.

 

Juan isn't the problem. It's abandoning the run because your banged up offensive line cannot run block well. Joe hitting the check down Charlie because the line isn't great at pass blocking either. When healthy we are a force! When unhealthy, just reference how a team performs with backups like Connor Cook for the raiders coming up soon.

 

Both coaches should've been canned. To quote Brandon Marshall: 

 

     "The best way I can describe it is, having a diaper on and never changing it. And just sitting in that diaper".

[Militant X 1]

18 hours ago, Grapple Raven said:

As for changes to the coaching staff, I may be in the minority here but:

The rushing stats since Castillo was brought in in his first full season in 2013-2014:

2013-0214:  30th in rushing yards, 30th in rushing yards per game, 32nd in rushing yards per attempt.

2015-2016:  26th in rushing yards and 26th in rushing yards per game, 24th in rushing yards per attempt.

2016-2017:  28th in rushing yards, 28th in rushing yards per game, 21st in rushing yards per attempt.

 

The one outlier was 2014-2015 when Kubiak was here with Dennison helping installing Kubiak's strategies with the offensive line:

2014-2015:  8th in rushing yards, 8th in rushing yards per game, 7th in rushing yards per attempt.

 

You have to ask the question is this why we aren't running the ball more?  Because we can't run it with any success?  We had lesser backs than probably what Castillo had in all those years, especially since Kubiak's year was without Ray Rice and he did much better.   What is Harbs seeing in those stats or is he blinded by loyalty?  Castillo might can coach fundamentals and technique, but he has no business being in charge of a run game, offensive line or whatever the hell title Harbs gives him to justify his job.  The common denominator in the stats above is Castillo.  This is beyond ridiculous.

 

He may be Grapple.  In nearly all of his pressers, he mentions being or always being "friends" or "pals" with coaches and players.

[Swift 1]

IMO Coaches are overrated. The players execute. To stop some of the negs I am going to get, I will admit coaches can help.

[redrum52]

4 minutes ago, Swift 1 said:

IMO Coaches are overrated. The players execute. To stop some of the negs I am going to get, I will admit coaches can help.

Appreciate the negs.  Bask in it.

[usmccharles]

9 minutes ago, Swift 1 said:

IMO Coaches are overrated. The players execute. To stop some of the negs I am going to get, I will admit coaches can help.

The guys in NE say hi

[Purple Punishment]

A down vote for telling the truth about the abysmal tail spin we have been on and the inevitable crash landing that awaits?

Pathetic.

 

unless we nail the draft, we start next season 0-until we play the browns....and they might even be better

Edited January 4 by Purple Punishment

[R@venFan808]

On 1/3/2017 at 8:34 AM, ravensdfan said:

We all know that old definition of insanity right? But yeah, keep Pees and watch your defense fold consistently when it matters late in games. Please.

Better give the offense all the love because, as I stated before, this offense is going to have to put up 30 or better every game with Pees' brand of defense.

I kind of get retaining Marty, he did not have an entire season after all. But Pees has proven over his 5 seasons he is not the answer.

At least we're interviewing for a QB coach.

The game folds in the end because the defensive players on the field can't call the right plays in the 2 min drill. If D pees is not calling the plays they fold. On top of that Defense has suffered key injuries all year. Suggs playing with a torn bicep, Doom recovering because  we now know he had surgery in the off season. Kafusi and Correa both were injured for most of the year. Leaving 4th round picks to do most of the dirty work for pass rushing.  Im seeing a lot of reasons why the defense folds. Pees is not one of them.

[R@venFan808]

28 minutes ago, Purple Punishment said:

A down vote for telling the truth about the abysmal tail spin we have been on and the inevitable crash landing that awaits?

Pathetic.

 

unless we nail the draft, we start next season 0-until we play the browns....and they might even be better

ill bet you on that 

[R@venFan808]

39 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

The guys in NE say hi

well see how good NE is when Brady retires, brady should fall off by next year or so, as every great QB his age has and the patriots strangle hold of the AFC will finally be over. 

[usmccharles]

9 minutes ago, R@venFan808 said:

well see how good NE is when Brady retires, brady should fall off by next year or so, as every great QB his age has and the patriots strangle hold of the AFC will finally be over. 

Brady should fall off next year? lol.  Ok, he just had a season almost equal to his record year with Moss as far as efficiency.  I hate defending that team but to not give credit where credit is due is just ignorant

[Tank 92]

21 hours ago, Grapple Raven said:

As for changes to the coaching staff, I may be in the minority here but:

The rushing stats since Castillo was brought in in his first full season in 2013-2014:

2013-0214:  30th in rushing yards, 30th in rushing yards per game, 32nd in rushing yards per attempt.

2015-2016:  26th in rushing yards and 26th in rushing yards per game, 24th in rushing yards per attempt.

2016-2017:  28th in rushing yards, 28th in rushing yards per game, 21st in rushing yards per attempt.

 

The one outlier was 2014-2015 when Kubiak was here with Dennison helping installing Kubiak's strategies with the offensive line:

2014-2015:  8th in rushing yards, 8th in rushing yards per game, 7th in rushing yards per attempt.

 

You have to ask the question is this why we aren't running the ball more?  Because we can't run it with any success?  We had lesser backs than probably what Castillo had in all those years, especially since Kubiak's year was without Ray Rice and he did much better.   What is Harbs seeing in those stats or is he blinded by loyalty?  Castillo might can coach fundamentals and technique, but he has no business being in charge of a run game, offensive line or whatever the hell title Harbs gives him to justify his job.  The common denominator in the stats above is Castillo.  This is beyond ridiculous.

 

To be fair he hasn't had a great group as a whole to work with. Every year there has been a gaping hole or two. The weakest link analogy really fits well with an offensive line, and our chain has been pretty easy to break.

I will say though that I don't think Juan was quite prepared for the rule changes that hurt the ZBS. It does seem that they are headed in the right direction now, just need to keep Wagner and find a center. Man I dread the day Yanda retires.  lol

[Moderator 3]

2 hours ago, Purple Punishment said:

A down vote for telling the truth about the abysmal tail spin we have been on and the inevitable crash landing that awaits?

Pathetic.

 

unless we nail the draft, we start next season 0-until we play the browns....and they might even be better

Lucky for us, not everyone feels it's all doom amd gloom.

NFL rebuild rankings: Which teams are in best shape for 2017?

http://usat.ly/2hT3S65

[The Raven]

23 hours ago, Grapple Raven said:

As for changes to the coaching staff, I may be in the minority here but:

The rushing stats since Castillo was brought in in his first full season in 2013-2014:

2013-0214:  30th in rushing yards, 30th in rushing yards per game, 32nd in rushing yards per attempt.

2015-2016:  26th in rushing yards and 26th in rushing yards per game, 24th in rushing yards per attempt.

2016-2017:  28th in rushing yards, 28th in rushing yards per game, 21st in rushing yards per attempt.

 

The one outlier was 2014-2015 when Kubiak was here with Dennison helping installing Kubiak's strategies with the offensive line:

2014-2015:  8th in rushing yards, 8th in rushing yards per game, 7th in rushing yards per attempt.

 

You have to ask the question is this why we aren't running the ball more?  Because we can't run it with any success?  We had lesser backs than probably what Castillo had in all those years, especially since Kubiak's year was without Ray Rice and he did much better.   What is Harbs seeing in those stats or is he blinded by loyalty?  Castillo might can coach fundamentals and technique, but he has no business being in charge of a run game, offensive line or whatever the hell title Harbs gives him to justify his job.  The common denominator in the stats above is Castillo.  This is beyond ridiculous.

 

For the millionth time, Castillo is not responsible for the run scheme. He is solely responsible for technique. Harbaugh has even said that. He hasn't had that "run game coordinator" title since 2013.

Oh, and in 2013 he had an oline with AQ Shipley, Giino Gradkowski, and Mike Oher. Two of those guys aren't in the league anymore.

In 2015 and 2016, he's dealt with a Zuttah that regressed terribly, constant injuries, and a revolving door at left guard.

If you want to blame someone for poor oline play, blame Ozzie for not addressing it.

Edited January 4 by The Raven

[redrum52]

3 minutes ago, The Raven said:

For the millionth time, Castillo is not responsible for the run scheme. He is solely responsible for technique. Harbaugh has even said that. He hasn't had that "run game coordinator" title since 2013.

Gotta blame someone...