Marty stays...fixing the offense heading into 2017

[cwfRaven]

Agreed. I suppose we don't know for sure that we didn't make any inquires, but if we did, clearly they weren't serious inquiries. 

3 minutes ago, jdynamite said:

It's really a shame that this team didn't even bother to make any inquiries for a possible OC.  I mean what did he do to show that he could improve this team offensively.  

He took over this offense in week 6. Overall there was no difference in play selection or creativity, and productivity. 

Smh 

 

[jimmypowder]

10 minutes ago, Edug27 said:

Missing the playoffs again won't get Harbaugh fired. As long as he has control of that locker room. Losing control of that is the only way he gets fired in the near future..

There were already some signs of lost control during the final game against Cincy . Harbaugh's teams always fought hard in meaningless games but did you see any in that game ? 

[allblackraven]

It now seems that Harbaugh just doesn't want to hire anybody who could become a threat for his HC position.

Remains to be seen (and I am confident) whether the same rhetoric is on our schedule in 2017 - "we can become really good team, we just need to get better" - all the way through week 17 and 6 other teams duke it out in AFC playoffs.

[52520Andrew]

No reason we should be leading the league in pass attempts while being 28th in yards per attempt. I mean Green Bay of all teams ran the ball more than we did and they had a converted WR at running back. And we end up bringing this guy back? Ugh.

[ellicottraven]

SAD

[rmcjacket23]

4 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

It now seems that Harbaugh just doesn't want to hire anybody who could become a threat for his HC position.

Remains to be seen (and I am confident) whether the same rhetoric is on our schedule in 2017 - "we can become really good team, we just need to get better" - all the way through week 17 and 6 other teams duke it out in AFC playoffs.

Or he realizes that firing both of your coordinators after a season is all but a death sentence to your own coaching tenure. I'd love to see the name of the HC who's fired both of his coordinators and kept his own job much longer?

And obviously he's hired plenty of people who could have been a threat to his job... the last three OCs on this team have all been HCs in the past, including the prior two being hired straight from a HC gig. Plus there's Leslie Frazier.

If there's one thing that he seems to prefer, its hiring former HCs, so they would obviously be a threat to his HC position.

[mc_red23]

Don't know if to laugh or cry at this news.

5 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

It now seems that Harbaugh just doesn't want to hire anybody who could become a threat for his HC position.

Remains to be seen (and I am confident) whether the same rhetoric is on our schedule in 2017 - "we can become really good team, we just need to get better" - all the way through week 17 and 6 other teams duke it out in AFC playoffs.

I said a while back that Harbaugh reminds me of the previous Liverpool FC manager (Brendan Rodgers). They get rid of people in the team that may question their authority, they hire incompetent coaches who pose no threat to them, they both want to bring in goody goodies and both have/had no idea how they wanted the team to play. Then after press conferences it's all "we showed character", "we have to play like we're (whatever team) players", "we can do better" etc. etc. 

[ravefan52]

1 hour ago, GrimCoconut said:

I agree. I'm saying go heavy at getting a top WR and C because it'll help in many ways if Flacco will be the focal point. We must get rid of Pitta IMO. I think Joe locks onto him too much. 

I agree on Pitta, his presence is limiting the offense.Flacco needs a guy who's great after the catch. I know its been rare, but I could actually see a high pick used on a playmaker. Harbs job may be riding on the offenses success. I know personnel is up to Ozzie, but John has gotta be pounding the table for some big investment into that side of the ball just of fear for job security.

[allblackraven]

1 minute ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Or he realizes that firing both of your coordinators after a season is all but a death sentence to your own coaching tenure. I'd love to see the name of the HC who's fired both of his coordinators and kept his own job much longer?

And obviously he's hired plenty of people who could have been a threat to his job... the last three OCs on this team have all been HCs in the past, including the prior two being hired straight from a HC gig. Plus there's Leslie Frazier.

If there's one thing that he seems to prefer, its hiring former HCs, so they would obviously be a threat to his HC position.

You are dreaming. The only HC job Kubiak was going to take was Denver, Trestman after Chicago fiasco was never going to be hired again. There wasn't really great demand for Frazier either after he got booted from Vikings. Pees keeps saying he isn't interested in HC positions.

"We want to run the ball more". Tell your damn coordinator to hand the damn ball to the damn running back!!!

 

[Cillmatic]

Everyone saying "consistency" doesn't understand the reality of the situation. 

Marty was using Trestman's playbook and system all season. Now that he has a whole offseason he's scraping the whole system to install his own. This isn't consistency at all. This is essentially us getting a new coordinator who we already know will abandon the run...

Unless we can get someone like Dennison back as QB coach expect Joe to keep regressing.

[rmcjacket23]

9 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

You are dreaming. The only HC job Kubiak was going to take was Denver, Trestman after Chicago fiasco was never going to be hired again. There wasn't really great demand for Frazier either after he got booted from Vikings. Pees keeps saying he isn't interested in HC positions.

"We want to run the ball more". Tell your damn coordinator to hand the damn ball to the damn running back!!!

 

1. Obviously there's no possible way you or I could know any of those things. If either Kubiak or Trestman led quality offenses over a few years while they were here, I don't think anybody would be shocked by them becoming a HC. Trestman got hired as a HC in this league after being out of it entirely for a long time... something tells me 1-2 years of quality offenses would get him another opportunity.

2. Pees isn't interested in HC positions likely because of his age. And it doesn't help that he's probably not being considered for those gigs by other teams either. He doesn't have the pedigree those guys do.

3. I mean we could run the ball more, but if we continued to run it as effectively as we did when we did run it, I doubt you'd notice a difference. Tough sell that we win more games when we weren't any good at running the ball when we did.

Gotta figure out how to run it effectively before we start talking about doing it more.

Edited January 3 by rmcjacket23

[rossihunter2]

11 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

"We want to run the ball more". Tell your damn coordinator to hand the damn ball to the damn running back!!!

 

what - every play? or is this just a generic run it more statement - because you're saying he should tell the coordinator to make a running play - do you mean every play or a specific play because then you're asking him to essentially playcall - and john harbaugh is not an offensive coordinator - hence why he hires other people to do the job

[allblackraven]

4 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

1. Obviously there's no possible way you or I could know any of those things. If either Kubiak or Trestman led quality offenses over a few years while they were here, I don't think anybody would be shocked by them becoming a HC. Trestman got hired as a HC in this league after being out of it entirely for a long time... something tells me 1-2 years of quality offenses would get him another opportunity.

2. Pees isn't interested in HC positions likely because of his age. And it doesn't help that he's probably not being considered for those gigs by other teams either. He doesn't have the pedigree those guys do.

3. I mean we could run the ball more, but if we continued to run it as effectively as we did when we did run it, I doubt you'd notice a difference. Tough sell that we win more games when we weren't any good at running the ball when we did.

Gotta figure out how to run it effectively before we start talking about doing it more.

I seriously don't think it's a rocket science. Fix the interior O line and see the magic happen.

Our problem is that we go about offense diametrically opposite of what we should be doing - we have QB who needs good running game to really show his strength but we are using him to set up our run. Between iffy pass protection and WRs who open themselves on every 29th of February, it's a disaster in the making.

And we opted for more of it. 

[rmcjacket23]

Just now, allblackraven said:

I seriously don't think it's a rocket science. Fix the interior O line and see the magic happen.

Our problem is that we go about offense diametrically opposite of what we should be doing - we have QB who needs good running game to really show his strength but we are using him to set up our run. Between iffy pass protection and WRs who open themselves on every 29th of February, it's a disaster in the making.

And we opted for more of it. 

I agree with the first statement. 

The problem is that you typically can't achieve your first statement during the season. There aren't any good Centers or good Guards just laying around in October that we can pickup and solve our problem.

By the time you get to September, you're pretty much stuck with what you have. They either play better, or you get what we had, which is a unit that didn't run block very well. You can just keep trying to force to run the ball and pray it works, or you can adapt your game plan to use the short passing game as an extension of your lack of a running game.

Ultimately neither worked that well.

[rafahash]

I guess Harbs isn't watching his team's games. Can't get this decision at all.

[allblackraven]

8 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

what - every play? or is this just a generic run it more statement - because you're saying he should tell the coordinator to make a running play - do you mean every play or a specific play because then you're asking him to essentially playcall - and john harbaugh is not an offensive coordinator - hence why he hires other people to do the job

You are missing the point. They are committed to run game only verbally but they throw INT on 1st down in the red zone. 

So if the plan is to run and the OC still calls the pass, then yes - HC has to say something about it.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

We went 5-4 with Marty as OC.

Cinci game, glad we lost bc i prefer the higher draft pick. The team wasnt there and it was obvious. If it was a meaningful game i bet we win. 

Even without it we were a defensive stop from being 6-2 with Marty at the helm, and then giving us a ton to play for in the Cinci game. 

Lets say we that did play out and we're 7-2 under Marty heading into the playoffs. Or lets say we still lose the last one and we're 6-3 and no playoffs. Are we really trying to fire the coaching staff that went 6-3 with two losses against the NFL's best two teams, and one in meaningless game?

If not, in essence the defense stopping Pittsburgh with a minute left is the only difference between hating Marty coming back, and being ok with bringing back your OC who coached you to a 6-3 record with only 2 real losses to the best 2 teams in the NFL.

Is perception really that razor thin? I know it can be. Just kind of thinking and asking out loud here.

Edited January 3 by BOLDnPurPnBlacK

[cajmax]

Juan Castillo would be a good starting point, but he's a friend of harbs, replace Castillo with someone that's competent & that's not a friend of harbs, but that won't happen until harbs get fired!

[donkeyking64]

8 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

We went 5-4 with Marty as OC.

Cinci game, glad we lost bc i prefer the higher draft pick. The team wasnt there and it was obvious. If it was a meaningful game i bet we win. 

Even without it we were a defensive stop from being 6-2 with Marty at the helm, and then giving us a ton to play for in the Cinci game. 

Lets say we that did play out and we're 7-2 under Marty heading into the playoffs. Or lets say we still lose the last one and we're 6-3 and no playoffs. Are we really trying to fire the coaching staff that went 6-3 with two losses against the NFL's best two teams, and one in meaningless game?

If not, in essence the defense stopping Pittsburgh with a minute left is the only difference between hating Marty coming back, and being ok with bringing back your OC who coached you to a 6-3 record with only 2 real losses to the best 2 teams in the NFL.

Is perception really that razor thin? I know it can be. Just kind of thinking and asking out loud here.

Was your perception that he utilized the personnel at an optimal level?

Sounds like maybe you think Marty wasn't so bad, so I'm just curious. 

 

[Tank 92]

2 hours ago, donkeyking64 said:

Ray retired after the 2012 season. Ed went elsewhere

lol   That nuthin to do with nuthin.  They were both shells of themselves for two or three years before retiring.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

1 hour ago, jimmypowder said:

There were already some signs of lost control during the final game against Cincy . Harbaugh's teams always fought hard in meaningless games but did you see any in that game ? 

Draft pick baby. Why win that game and pick like 8 picks later?

Not saying that Harbs and Co played down on purpose... but after a crushing, season ending defeat and knowing SSS is done... hard to get up.

[Tank 92]

3 hours ago, ravefan52 said:

We better get a legit playmaker on offense. Otherwise we're gonna pass the ball 40 times a games while Pitta and Juice lead the team in receiving.

Bingo.  The Ravens have been devoid of a real playmaker since 2012. I hope we somehow find a way to pick up Garcon.

And it would be nice if anyone not named Pitta could be depended upon to catch the damn ball with some consistency.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

3 hours ago, RavensFanMania said:

This thread needs to be brought back next year, because I believe this non move will be the best move we make all off season.  Keeping Marty and hiring a good QB coach along with improving the blocking along the offensive line with a new Center and Guard will go miles in improving the offense next season. 

I'm making a call that next season we WILL be back in the playoffs.  I still stand by McCoy as my first choice, but I'm ok with the Marty and a good QB coach.   Consistency means something in the NFL.  Lets remember guys, changing OC's doesn't mean we are going to have improvement either.  As a matter of fact, it could hold us back from improving.

 

 

 

That's a lot of ifs. I do agree we need to address the center position in the draft. Zuttah is holding the line back. I do also subscribe to the notion that even though Marty had a tendency to be pass happy, the run blocking wasn't amazing either. We have two guys who I think are good(I think Dixon is a future franchise back). We have a few talented young TEs. We need another WR, but I like what I see from Breshad. But we don't ever resort to using them. That's why I'm worried. 

 

I hope you're right lol, I'm a die hard fan of the team, and even if I don't support what Ozzie/Harbs and co. are doing, they're better than all of us at it. 

 

We need to hire Dennison as QB coach or something... Hell, I'll take Zorn back, he's unemployed right?

[rossihunter2]

8 minutes ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

We need to hire Dennison as QB coach or something... Hell, I'll take Zorn back, he's unemployed right?

of all the times dennison wouldnt become a qb coach - now is not the one - he is finally his own man, rather than kubiak's - he's not going anywhere other than an OC job if he can take it

[Tank 92]

Fix the O line, get a playmaker and no one will worry about Marty.

The core of the line consisted of a guy playing out of position because he had a bad shoulder, a below average center and a guy that was on his couch watching football when they signed him. Fix it.

The Ravens had no one receiver/RB that the other team had to worry about shutting down. They need to sign a dependable WR and develop Perriman/Dixon into studs.  

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

55 minutes ago, donkeyking64 said:

Was your perception that he utilized the personnel at an optimal level?

Sounds like maybe you think Marty wasn't so bad, so I'm just curious. 

 

No i dont think he did great - but i also understood going into it, coming in mid-year, the conditions werent there to really expect a great overhaul.

Its not an enviable position to take over an offense thats been horrible for 7 straight games and a team on a 4 game losing streak with 1 week to prepare.

And, even less so when youre stuck with another guys playbook and verbiage which is similar, but not your own. Not many guys really succeed in that situation. When a coordinator gets fired theres usually a lot more problems than just the coordinator. He might be the head of it, or the most noticeable one, but NFL Coordinators didnt get there and get new jobs by being bad. So usually a lot more than just them goes wrong.

And marty inherited all those problems in a less ideal situation than an OC starting in the offseason. And he improved the team, although marginally. And if youd have told me at any point weeks 8-14 that our offense would be the unit to carry us to wins in Miami, and go drive for drive with one of the most explosive offenses in the NFL (Pitt) i wouldve never believed it.

Not consistently good. But enough to analyze and like. There were a couple really good game plans... and some really good instances of playcalling. Situationally we were never good, but thats the part that suffers the most when youre running another mans offense. In your own offense you know all your plays and the verbiage to call them in. So, if an unexpected situation arises you can quickly pull the perfect play from memory to beat that defense, or win in that situation.

In another guys offense you might know what you want to do, but if you didnt pre-select on your menu of plays youre not gonna know what that play is called in his offense. Or the route combinations might not be there to attack defenses teh way you want to.

I mean some guys like to attack horizontally to set up the vertical. Some like to attack vertical to open up underneath. Some like to attack multiple levels with route combos. Some like to use bunches and motion. Some like to use the run followed with playaction and bootlegs. And while all those types of plays are likely in Trestmans offense, if they werent emphasized in the offseason and performed with a series of repetition, the design doesnt matter all that much because if the understanding or the timing with the players isnt there - its not going to be successful.

 

So - i saw improvements. Situationally we need to be better - but i think that improves just with the comfort of Marty being in Marty world. 

If the QB cosigns and endorses the guy.... and hes our franchise player... who am i to question? 2 of the offensive leaders got out in front of this to say they see no reason for Marty to go and want him back. That tells me they see more to the story than just Marty sucks... and they see something with him that they can succeed with. Bc no QB and TE are going to want an OC that going to get them cut in 2018.

 

And if youre going to live and die by your QB... whose clearly suffered from an OC carousel to this point in his career, and doing that hasnt helped the offense aside from 1 year... why would you purposely ostracize your most important player?

As a leader you have to trust your franchise QB to know whats best for him. If you liked Marty to begin with and that guy cosigns it - then lets go. Its on you guys to fix it. And im very much ok with rolling the dice on that. Bc the man deserves to go out on his own terms. Give him a fair shake and then lets judge.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

2 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

of all the times dennison wouldnt become a qb coach - now is not the one - he is finally his own man, rather than kubiak's - he's not going anywhere other than an OC job if he can take it

unless no one will hire him as OC bc everyone knows Kubiak ran everything and called all the plays.

He might have to start as an assistant and work his way into an OC role bc he has no cred right now outside of Kubiaks staff.

[rossihunter2]

Just now, Tank 92 said:

The core of the line consisted of a guy playing out of position because he had a bad shoulder, a below average center and a guy that was on his couch watching football when they signed him. Fix it.

and somehow managed to become at least serviceable later in the year

shows you how much chemistry means in the Oline - stanley is set at LT, Yanda at RG and hopefully wagner at RT (if resigned)

i imagine zuttah will be a cap casualty but he might not be, i imagine he won't go if wagner does

that means alex lewis is playing somewhere on the line in all probability which is likely at left guard but might be at right tackle

in terms of lineman then - you are expecting to find a tackle and a centre but the likelihood only one of them is going to be a starter if even that

[rossihunter2]

2 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

unless no one will hire him as OC bc everyone knows Kubiak ran everything and called all the plays.

He might have to start as an assistant and work his way into an OC role bc he has no cred right now outside of Kubiaks staff.

sounds like a perfect OC candidate wherever shanahan ends up being the head coach

[hn68wb4]

I won't act like the sky is falling because at worst our offense will be better next year since Mornhinweg will have the offseason to instill his own playbook and what he expects from the players. Also we've got quite a few young guys that'll be better in year two, most notably Stanley, Lewis, and Perriman (entering year 2 for all intents and purposes). Also some new guys will be added via free agency and the draft. Flacco progressed as the season went on and started to regain some confidence in his throws.

That being said, I can't say I'm not disappointed, I think there are far better potential OC on the market. Mornhinweg needs to make better playcalling decisions next year, and Flacco also needs to make better decisions. We can't be running check downs all game and neglecting to run the ball, do that is what caused our offense to sputter all season long. I understand the point of check downs is to get Flacco in rhythm, but it doesn't if that's literally all you run. We desperately need more intermediate route, this check down or deep ball only system will continue to kill us.

It's over, decision has been made, learn to live with him because he's staying for the season, don't expect another mid season change like Trestman.