Marty stays...fixing the offense heading into 2017

[ravefan52]

We better get a legit playmaker on offense. Otherwise we're gonna pass the ball 40 times a games while Pitta and Juice lead the team in receiving.

[GrimCoconut]

It would be awesome btw if we got Dennison as QB coach if he's fired after they get a new coach or even Kubiak if he wants a less involved role where he focused on teaching. 

[GrimCoconut]

1 minute ago, ravefan52 said:

We better get a legit playmaker on offense. Otherwise we're gonna pass the ball 40 times a games while Pitta and Juice lead the team in receiving.

I agree. I'm saying go heavy at getting a top WR and C because it'll help in many ways if Flacco will be the focal point. We must get rid of Pitta IMO. I think Joe locks onto him too much. 

[terrynjulia03]

8 minutes ago, JO_75 said:

Sigh.......... 

Once again with upgrades available we decide to stay mediocre. Could try to get Norv, could try to get Mike McCoy, maybe some new RB or WR Coach, a fresh college position coach, etc. Yet we stay the course and once again fail to upgrade when we have the chance to. Harbs just laid the ground work for his final season with the team. 

Billick's last year was 2007, and it looks like 10 years later Harbaugh's last year will be 2017. 

More interesting stats. Billick was in his 2nd year when we won the SB. Harbs took 5. 

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

Just now, terrynjulia03 said:

More interesting stats. Billick was in his 2nd year when we won the SB. Harbs took 5. 

Harbaugh had to develop a rookie QB from day one, who was then forced into the starting role and didn't have the luxury of a top 3 defense of all time at his disposal. That's honestly pointless to bring up

[rmcjacket23]

10 minutes ago, terrynjulia03 said:

Sure when he had 2 once in a lifetime players, and 2 or 3 more that were top 2 or 3 at their position. And we STILL collapsed in the 4th in many games, to include the SB. 

Who were those players in 2014 again?

[rmcjacket23]

4 minutes ago, terrynjulia03 said:

More interesting stats. Billick was in his 2nd year when we won the SB. Harbs took 5. 

And now 10 years has gone by and nobody is calling him, while Harbaugh is still employed. 

Tells you all you need to know about what the NFL thinks about Billick.

 

[RaineV1]

I think what upsets me the most is that we had so many options this go around. I think Harbaugh's biggest flaw is that he's too loyal for his own good. As a HC you have to be a little cut-throat in your willingness to improve whenever you get the chance. I have always defended Harbaugh and thought he was a good HC, but seeing the players quit in that last game and now keeping a guy that refuses to call run plays... I can't say I support him anymore. If the Ravens miss the playoffs again, him and both coordinators need to be gone.

And if we don't really fix up the o-line, then Joe is going to get killed throw fifty times a game.

Edited January 3 by RaineV1

[rmw10]

2 minutes ago, RaineV1 said:

I think what upsets me the most is that we had so many options this go around. I think Harbaugh's biggest flaw is that he's too loyal for his own good. As a HC you have to be a little cut-throat in your willing to improve whenever you get the chance. I have always defended Harbaugh and thought he was a good HC, but seeing the players quit in that last game and now keeping a guy that refuses to call run plays... I can't say I support him anymore. If the Ravens miss the playoffs again, him and both coordinators need to be gone.

Yep.  Loyalty isn't always a bad thing, but at some point, you have to recognize when you're being too loyal.  I mean, this is another friend that he worked with back in Philly.  It may seem hard to be too loyal to a guy who has less than a year of experience in the current position, but...

[terrynjulia03]

7 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Who were those players in 2014 again?

You mean the 2013 season that Peabrain coached when he had Ray, Ed, Ngata, Pollard, etc... in the SB yeah he's a great coach. Like I said, 2 first ballot HOFers and numerous others playing at the best at their position. That's what he needs to "succeed" 

[The Raven]

I can understand why we're sticking with Marty, but I don't support it.

I get that maybe we want to give him a chance with his own system and an improved roster, but... I just didn't have any faith in his play calling 

[rmcjacket23]

3 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Yep.  Loyalty isn't always a bad thing, but at some point, you have to recognize when you're being too loyal.  I mean, this is another friend that he worked with back in Philly.  It may seem hard to be too loyal to a guy who has less than a year of experience in the current position, but...

I mean at the end of the day I think this whole "he's too loyal" thing doesn't really matter or make sense.

Here's the way I see it... who is the HC in this league that consistently fires his assistants or coordinators frequently and still keeps his HC gig? Who is the coach that faces constant struggles with coordinators and still manages to be a HC year after year? I'm not talking about coaches who have coordinators leave for better gigs, because we have no shortage of that.

When you start seeing a lot of coordinator and coaching changes, the thing you typically see next is a HC change. That's the way things work. If you're constantly hiring the wrong people, then the people you are hiring stop becoming the problem.

This is not to say that Harbaugh should be fired, because I don't think he should. I'm just starting to wonder why so many fans are convinced that changing coordinators every year is the solution to anything?

In this regard, I understand the "loyalty" that he shows to his coaches, because I think he knows that being un-loyal to his coaches can be equally or more devastating than being loyal to them.

[Static]

4 minutes ago, terrynjulia03 said:

You mean the 2013 season that Peabrain coached when he had Ray, Ed, Ngata, Pollard, etc... in the SB yeah he's a great coach. Like I said, 2 first ballot HOFers and numerous others playing at the best at their position. That's what he needs to "succeed" 

 The 2013 defense wasn't even a good one.

[donkeyking64]

 

52 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

It's not that the Ravens couldn't run the ball; they just flat out chose not to and that's very disturbing.

This This and This.

Everyone can debate back on forth about going for it on 4th and whatever and say the coach needed to do that for the defense's sake because players were getting banged up and knocked out blah blah blah, but there isn't much debate on calling a pass play in the vein of aggression when you can choose to be SMART (see Eagles Game). Rookie OC's can figure that much out. This was not MM's first rodeo as an OC.  

That's actually why it's good to promote either the RB, WR, TE's coach or get an upstart guy from outside. Unknown coaches are just like 5th and 6th rounders. They are hungry and ready to make a name for themselves. Marty has been around for a while and his coaching track record speaks for itself.

[rmcjacket23]

5 minutes ago, terrynjulia03 said:

You mean the 2013 season that Peabrain coached when he had Ray, Ed, Ngata, Pollard, etc... in the SB yeah he's a great coach. Like I said, 2 first ballot HOFers and numerous others playing at the best at their position. That's what he needs to "succeed" 

No I mean the 2014 season. The one where we won 10 games, made the playoffs, beat our rival on their field with a patchwork secondary, and came close to beating the SB champs on their field.

Those guys weren't there. So whats the explanation? I want to know who the first ballot HOFs and numerous other playing at their best were on that team?

[donkeyking64]

3 minutes ago, Static said:

 The 2013 defense wasn't even a good one.

Ray retired after the 2012 season. Ed went elsewhere

[rmcjacket23]

Just now, donkeyking64 said:

Ray retired after the 2012 season. Ed went elsewhere

That plus the 2012 defense being one of the worst in a long, long, long time. 

[rmw10]

5 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I mean at the end of the day I think this whole "he's too loyal" thing doesn't really matter or make sense.

Here's the way I see it... who is the HC in this league that consistently fires his assistants or coordinators frequently and still keeps his HC gig? Who is the coach that faces constant struggles with coordinators and still manages to be a HC year after year? I'm not talking about coaches who have coordinators leave for better gigs, because we have no shortage of that.

When you start seeing a lot of coordinator and coaching changes, the thing you typically see next is a HC change. That's the way things work. If you're constantly hiring the wrong people, then the people you are hiring stop becoming the problem.

This is not to say that Harbaugh should be fired, because I don't think he should. I'm just starting to wonder why so many fans are convinced that changing coordinators every year is the solution to anything?

In this regard, I understand the "loyalty" that he shows to his coaches, because I think he knows that being un-loyal to his coaches can be equally or more devastating than being loyal to them.

I can agree with that.  My main sticking point is that it's just an awful decision regardless or loyalty or what have you.  Merely pointing it out since someone said loyalty was one of Harbaugh's best traits and I had to disagree with that.  Like you said, it doesn't really matter one way or another.  As of now, it looks like it's going to reflect on Harbs either way.

[RavensFanMania]

This thread needs to be brought back next year, because I believe this non move will be the best move we make all off season.  Keeping Marty and hiring a good QB coach along with improving the blocking along the offensive line with a new Center and Guard will go miles in improving the offense next season. 

I'm making a call that next season we WILL be back in the playoffs.  I still stand by McCoy as my first choice, but I'm ok with the Marty and a good QB coach.   Consistency means something in the NFL.  Lets remember guys, changing OC's doesn't mean we are going to have improvement either.  As a matter of fact, it could hold us back from improving.

 

 

[PurpleCity5]

This is hilarious. 

So you keep Marty, fine, but the fact that you didn't tolerate other candidates and hold interviews just baffles me. Not to mention that Harbaugh was "pleased" with the improvement the offense made in the final stretch? LOL wuht? What was impressive about games vs New England or Philadelphia? I would love to ask him what the hell happened in that awful, disgraceful performance vs Cincinnati. 

Seriously, this could be something that gets him fired next season. If that's the case, my hope is that Sean Payton just holds out for another year in New Orleans and we could bring him here. 

[cwfRaven]

I get keeping MM, but agree with other posts that if things don't turn around in 2017, we're cleaning house. As I see it, MM is a side effect of a bigger mistake - hiring Trestman in the first place. No Trestman, probably no MM. We make a different hire last year and we're talking about beating the Dolphins next week instead of worrying about next year.  Ahh, good ol' hindsight...

[PurpleCity5]

32 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

I agree. I'm saying go heavy at getting a top WR and C because it'll help in many ways if Flacco will be the focal point. We must get rid of Pitta IMO. I think Joe locks onto him too much. 

Totally agree, I would rather see Pitta as a camp cut since it equals more cap savings and it could reveal just what jump our other TEs will make, but regardless I don't think Pitta should be here next season, force Joe to go through his reads more. 

[donkeyking64]

5 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I mean at the end of the day I think this whole "he's too loyal" thing doesn't really matter or make sense.

Here's the way I see it... who is the HC in this league that consistently fires his assistants or coordinators frequently and still keeps his HC gig? Who is the coach that faces constant struggles with coordinators and still manages to be a HC year after year? I'm not talking about coaches who have coordinators leave for better gigs, because we have no shortage of that.

When you start seeing a lot of coordinator and coaching changes, the thing you typically see next is a HC change. That's the way things work. If you're constantly hiring the wrong people, then the people you are hiring stop becoming the problem.

This is not to say that Harbaugh should be fired, because I don't think he should. I'm just starting to wonder why so many fans are convinced that changing coordinators every year is the solution to anything?

In this regard, I understand the "loyalty" that he shows to his coaches, because I think he knows that being un-loyal to his coaches can be equally or more devastating than being loyal to them.

I may be the only person, but I think this team had enough offensive talent to contend. I think the issues at the Center position, and missing Alex Lewis really hindered the offense at the end of the day.

But when you have a Steve Smith Sr, Perriman, Aiken Wallace, Pitta, Waller, Dixon, West, Juscyzk, I think you have some guys that can score points. You play to your strengths. They did not utilize the strengths of Perriman and Wallace and Flacco. Go deep. That's what those guys do well. All those guys could play for other teams. They could start elsewhere.

For me it is a matter of competency. You have to commit to running the ball. That 2008 team would go play Pittsburgh and would just try to run on Pittsburgh on like 65% of the plays and get 2 yards most times. Same for their team against us. Committed. Dropping back 40 times a game is not the right philosophy.

[Moderator 3]

37 minutes ago, donkeyking64 said:

Is the run game broken?

I think we need a new center for sure, but how can the run game be broken if it isn't utilized?

2 guys that specialize in going deep (Perriman/Wallace) or at least 2 guys that have the ability to go over the top aren't given the opportunities to go over the top. Instead a chunk of pass plays originate from behind the line to gain. How many times in the last few weeks did you see that kind of pass?

I think it is an issue of the approach to offense as opposed to fixing this or that. You fix those things from week to week. And if we are saying we need a new running back or new center that's one thing....but I don't think that's what you're saying. I could be wrong. We all know that Vlad Ducasse is not a starting Right Guard. But that doesn't mean the blame or issue is the run game

That's why "fix" was in quotes.  There were times when it seemes we couldn't run and times when it seemed we wouldn't run.  The whole run game debacle needs to be "fixed".

[rmcjacket23]

2 minutes ago, donkeyking64 said:

I may be the only person, but I think this team had enough offensive talent to contend. I think the issues at the Center position, and missing Alex Lewis really hindered the offense at the end of the day.

But when you have a Steve Smith Sr, Perriman, Aiken Wallace, Pitta, Waller, Dixon, West, Juscyzk, I think you have some guys that can score points. You play to your strengths. They did not utilize the strengths of Perriman and Wallace and Flacco. Go deep. That's what those guys do well. All those guys could play for other teams. They could start elsewhere.

For me it is a matter of competency. You have to commit to running the ball. That 2008 team would go play Pittsburgh and would just try to run on Pittsburgh on like 65% of the plays and get 2 yards most times. Same for their team against us. Committed. Dropping back 40 times a game is not the right philosophy.

If all this team did was run the ball for 2 yards a play 40 times a game, we may not have won a single game. You can't win the way we did in 2008, because we aren't built to win that way, don't have the personnel to win that way, and you have to be able to adapt your gameplan to attack the weaknesses in the oppositions defense.

[donkeyking64]

5 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

This is hilarious. 

So you keep Marty, fine, but the fact that you didn't tolerate other candidates and hold interviews just baffles me. Not to mention that Harbaugh was "pleased" with the improvement the offense made in the final stretch? LOL wuht? What was impressive about games vs New England or Philadelphia? I would love to ask him what the hell happened in that awful, disgraceful performance vs Cincinnati. 

Seriously, this could be something that gets him fired next season. If that's the case, my hope is that Sean Payton just holds out for another year in New Orleans and we could bring him here. 

This - over and over and over!

[donkeyking64]

2 minutes ago, Moderator 3 said:

That's why "fix" was in quotes.  There were times when it seemes we couldn't run and times when it seemed we wouldn't run.  The whole run game debacle needs to be "fixed".

I see now

[Tru11]

yall wanted consistency on offense well now you got it lol

[R@venFan808]

2 minutes ago, donkeyking64 said:

I may be the only person, but I think this team had enough offensive talent to contend. I think the issues at the Center position, and missing Alex Lewis really hindered the offense at the end of the day.

But when you have a Steve Smith Sr, Perriman, Aiken Wallace, Pitta, Waller, Dixon, West, Juscyzk, I think you have some guys that can score points. You play to your strengths. They did not utilize the strengths of Perriman and Wallace and Flacco. Go deep. That's what those guys do well. All those guys could play for other teams. They could start elsewhere.

For me it is a matter of competency. You have to commit to running the ball. That 2008 team would go play Pittsburgh and would just try to run on Pittsburgh on like 65% of the plays and get 2 yards most times. Same for their team against us. Committed. Dropping back 40 times a game is not the right philosophy.

 

i think your almost 100 % right,  more like 90 for right now lol. the offense was close but i think the key missing piece was a speedster some one to take the top off the defense we tried to fill the "Torrey Smith" roll but i don't think we have that person yet. Once we do i think the offense will run a lot more smoothly. 

[Deflated Football]

8 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

This is hilarious. 

So you keep Marty, fine, but the fact that you didn't tolerate other candidates and hold interviews just baffles me. Not to mention that Harbaugh was "pleased" with the improvement the offense made in the final stretch? LOL wuht? What was impressive about games vs New England or Philadelphia? I would love to ask him what the hell happened in that awful, disgraceful performance vs Cincinnati. 

Seriously, this could be something that gets him fired next season. If that's the case, my hope is that Sean Payton just holds out for another year in New Orleans and we could bring him here. 

I'm with you. Marty will be another mid-season firing to save face, but Harbaugh can no longer run from his fate. He goes down with Marty now. I would welcome Payton in Baltimore with open arms.