Marty stays...fixing the offense heading into 2017

[Ravensfan23]

2 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

I really do like Robert Woods as well, if not more because not only will it be cost effective but the fact of the matter is that we definitely need someone with refined routes. Wouldn't be upset if we looked towards Perriman to become a #2 option and yeah, Woods wouldn't be the only move we make, we could add someone like Wright as well. 

I don't have an problem with Perriman being a #2 option because I don't really think it'll be that important to label someone the #1 or #2 WR if this offense is built the right way. Now with that said I think Perriman is a stud. I will not hide the fact that I have HUGE expectations for him next year. This offseason will be huge for him in terms of refining and adding even more strength or better yet learning how to play with that strength. So if he was #2 next year I wouldn't have an issue but I think he's a guy you're gonna target 8-12 times any given game. The question for him is does he develop well enough to make the easy catch to go alone with his spectacular catch so that he's catching 5-6 balls for every 8 targets. 

Woods would definitely be cost efficient, but also he's young enough at 25 for the Ravens to get him entering his prime and allow him to grow with the offense if he pans out. Definitely an intriguing option.

2 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Woods has also been one of the most reliable deep threats in the NFL as far as catching the ball when targeted.

 Yea I don't know if it was a matter of the Bills never really maximizing his full skill set or what, but I thought this guy was definitely gonna be viewed as one of the top WRs when he came out of USC. I still remember that deep ball he burnt Corey Graham on in M&T a couple years ago. He has really great hands and tracking ability with the deep ball. Even when it's not really open he has a savvy way of uncovering, basically pushing off without getting caught. Ravens never have WRs that can do that. 

[-Truth-]

2 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Wright is a guy who I believe is better than the #s say, but I don't think its the only move we should make. I think a combo of adding Woods and Wright is certainly possible too. 

Agreed on Wright given that he only played 308 snaps this year. Even in 11 games, that's a lowly 28 snaps per contest. They did use Delanie Walker basically as a slot receiver in the passing game, but Wright was obviously not on the best of terms with the coaching staff. Even in his 8 catch, 133 yard performance against Cleveland, he played a mere 22 snaps. Woods would be a decent get, but I'd prefer him more as a No.3. Personally not too high on his ceiling. If Mornhinweg continues making inside routes a priority, it could make our offense a solid fit for the former (Just trying to relate it to the topic of the thread as I don't want to derail it).

[PurpleCity5]

2 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

I don't have an problem with Perriman being a #2 option because I don't really think it'll be that important to label someone the #1 or #2 WR if this offense is built the right way. Now with that said I think Perriman is a stud. I will not hide the fact that I have HUGE expectations for him next year. This offseason will be huge for him in terms of refining and adding even more strength or better yet learning how to play with that strength. So if he was #2 next year I wouldn't have an issue but I think he's a guy you're gonna target 8-12 times any given game. The question for him is does he develop well enough to make the easy catch to go alone with his spectacular catch so that he's catching 5-6 balls for every 8 targets. 

Woods would definitely be cost efficient, but also he's young enough at 25 for the Ravens to get him entering his prime and allow him to grow with the offense if he pans out. Definitely an intriguing option.

 Yea I don't know if it was a matter of the Bills never really maximizing his full skill set or what, but I thought this guy was definitely gonna be viewed as one of the top WRs when he came out of USC. I still remember that deep ball he burnt Corey Graham on in M&T a couple years ago. He has really great hands and tracking ability with the deep ball. Even when it's not really open he has a savvy way of uncovering, basically pushing off without getting caught. Ravens never have WRs that can do that. 

Oh yeah for certain I wouldn't have a problem with relying on Perriman as a #2 and I do believe that's the scenario that we might have to go with given the factors that he's dealt with and how he's overcame them.

I'm going to agree with you and I'll say it as well. This guy Perriman is going to be a beast. I was totally impressed with his YAC efforts this season, he's so fast, I knew he was fast but I did not know he was that fast. With that size, speed and ability to high point the ball and bring in those spectacular catches the way he does, I feel like he can have the all around tools once he improves and refines his routes.  

Woods should be an addition since he's effective in the slot, I think we can expect great #3 WR production from him if he arrives. 

[PurpleCity5]

2 hours ago, -Truth- said:

Agreed on Wright given that he only played 308 snaps this year. Even in 11 games, that's a lowly 28 snaps per contest. They did use Delanie Walker basically as a slot receiver in the passing game, but Wright was obviously not on the best of terms with the coaching staff. Even in his 8 catch, 133 yard performance against Cleveland, he played a mere 22 snaps. Woods would be a decent get, but I'd prefer him more as a No.3. Personally not too high on his ceiling. If Mornhinweg continues making inside routes a priority, it could make our offense a solid fit for the former (Just trying to relate it to the topic of the thread as I don't want to derail it).

I feel like Aiken was almost everything we needed in a 3rd WR. Someone who can run routes, be effective in the slot and sure hands. Just think we missed out on not involving him more and I think he missed out on not being a more effective WR. Just sucks that he didn't have a good year. 

I like Woods as a No.3 and wouldn't bet too him there given the ceiling as well, but the missing element is certainly someone effective as a #3 and Woods fills that. A #1 WR is the bigger one but lets be honest, where are we getting that from? FA? No. and Draft, no, not unless Mike Williams is there.

If Marty and the Ravens want to run better slant patterns, they're going to need better production in the slot. Get guys matched up with LBs and take advantage, unfortunately sometimes we can't because so many times the LB would undercut the slant pattern because our WRs failed to dip towards the LOS or didn't do a good job of  selling the out route. Mike Wallace himself didn't get the DB off balance sometimes. The only guy who did both on a consistent basis was Steve Smith but he's not here anymore 

Edited January 7 by PurpleCity5

[RaineV1]

4 hours ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

As much as I don't want Marty as our OC next year, I have a feeling we will have a hell of a time trying to convince OC to come here.   

Our history firing and OC leaving after a year is a deterrence.    I'm sure some factor of this played into keeping Marty.   Although I do think our FO/Harb should've waited a bit till the decision was made.   
 

Two of our OCs left to become head coaches.

[Ravensfan23]

6 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Oh yeah for certain I wouldn't have a problem with relying on Perriman as a #2 and I do believe that's the scenario that we might have to go with given the factors that he's dealt with and how he's overcame them.

I'm going to agree with you and I'll say it as well. This guy Perriman is going to be a beast. I was totally impressed with his YAC efforts this season, he's so fast, I knew he was fast but I did not know he was that fast. With that size, speed and ability to high point the ball and bring in those spectacular catches the way he does, I feel like he can have the all around tools once he improves and refines his routes.  

Woods should be an addition since he's effective in the slot, I think we can expect great #3 WR production from him if he arrives. 

The thing about Woods in the slot is the Ravens have the ability to move Waller outside and move Juice into the slot to make the defense unbalanced and it often led to WRs being matched up on LBs. For example tonight I'm breaking down the offense vs the Steelers on Xmas night and the first 3rd down of the game SSS is matched up on LB Timmons 1 on 1 and he doesn't win on a jerk route. That just can't happen but what i'm seeing is it happened far too often. I think a guy like Woods would definitely help or even a healthy Camp, just not sure if the Ravens can put any trust in him. Because of the TE usage Woods could be the #2 WR and still work out of the slot more often then not. He wouldn't have to be #3 to do so. 

Right now the WR room is kind of hard to judge because I think everything is based on Perriman's development which is good in some ways and bad in others. Ozzie, Harbs, Engram and Marty are gonna have to really break Perriman's season down and see if they can expect great improvement from him next year when he actually gets to go through a regular offseason. Remember life has hit this guy hard, from the injuries to the death of his best friend to the near death of his dad and we as fans didn't make it any easier with all the bust talk. Things should definitely slow down for him this year. If he improves his route running, I think he can be relied on to be a 65-80 catch guy with 13-15ypc and show real promise towards being a top flight guy.

Crazy thing is, we talk about Perriman being #2 and Harbs making the comment of not really needing a #1 to be a great passing attack, I actually have the Ravens selecting Mike Williams in the draft if they stay put at 16. Talk about a 1-2 punch. They'd still need a possession type veteran imo.   

[Ravensfan23]

Guys this threat has turned into more of a how to improve the offense type thread, which it seems i've contributed to a lot so i'm going to just change the Thread Title so everyone can freely post their opinions on how to fix the offense without worrying about going off topic. 

[JoeyFlex5]

7 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

I don't have an problem with Perriman being a #2 option because I don't really think it'll be that important to label someone the #1 or #2 WR if this offense is built the right way. Now with that said I think Perriman is a stud. I will not hide the fact that I have HUGE expectations for him next year. This offseason will be huge for him in terms of refining and adding even more strength or better yet learning how to play with that strength. So if he was #2 next year I wouldn't have an issue but I think he's a guy you're gonna target 8-12 times any given game. The question for him is does he develop well enough to make the easy catch to go alone with his spectacular catch so that he's catching 5-6 balls for every 8 targets. 

Woods would definitely be cost efficient, but also he's young enough at 25 for the Ravens to get him entering his prime and allow him to grow with the offense if he pans out. Definitely an intriguing option.

 Yea I don't know if it was a matter of the Bills never really maximizing his full skill set or what, but I thought this guy was definitely gonna be viewed as one of the top WRs when he came out of USC. I still remember that deep ball he burnt Corey Graham on in M&T a couple years ago. He has really great hands and tracking ability with the deep ball. Even when it's not really open he has a savvy way of uncovering, basically pushing off without getting caught. Ravens never have WRs that can do that. 

ive always been a huge fan of robert woods and i think hes one of the most criminally underutilized players in the league. 

i think he would be right at home here, he and joe flacco would develop a rapport rather quickly id think. he gets open often and effectively, he catches well, adjusts well, good awareness, i mean he is a prototype NFL WR who just happens to have average deep speed. he is exactly the kinda guy flacco meshes with, plus hes still young and healthy(i think) and wouldnt be too pricey. i think hes a great idea. 

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

8 hours ago, -Truth- said:

Agreed on Wright given that he only played 308 snaps this year. Even in 11 games, that's a lowly 28 snaps per contest. They did use Delanie Walker basically as a slot receiver in the passing game, but Wright was obviously not on the best of terms with the coaching staff. Even in his 8 catch, 133 yard performance against Cleveland, he played a mere 22 snaps. Woods would be a decent get, but I'd prefer him more as a No.3. Personally not too high on his ceiling. If Mornhinweg continues making inside routes a priority, it could make our offense a solid fit for the former (Just trying to relate it to the topic of the thread as I don't want to derail it).

I actually think Woods would mesh with the team well. Good hands, good route runner, has a way of getting open, and good at tracking the deep ball, decent speed. He gives the team a reliable underneath option that would give Perriman some room to operate and he'd likely be affordable. It'd essentially put Perriman in a position to be a #1 option. 

 

That at being said, I'd obviously prefer Wright or Garcon but I would actually like the Woods move 

[JoeyFlex5]

struggling in the brain thinkin compartments here... who is wright? kendall?

[allblackraven]

36 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

ive always been a huge fan of robert woods and i think hes one of the most criminally underutilized players in the league. 

i think he would be right at home here, 

Haha, you could have finished that sentence here.

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, allblackraven said:

Haha, you could have finished that sentence here.

no way man. i got things to say.

[Static]

Where are the dual TE sets?

[Ravensfan23]

4 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

ive always been a huge fan of robert woods and i think hes one of the most criminally underutilized players in the league. 

i think he would be right at home here, he and joe flacco would develop a rapport rather quickly id think. he gets open often and effectively, he catches well, adjusts well, good awareness, i mean he is a prototype NFL WR who just happens to have average deep speed. he is exactly the kinda guy flacco meshes with, plus hes still young and healthy(i think) and wouldnt be too pricey. i think hes a great idea. 

That's exactly why he'd be a great value signing. His numbers would suggest he's a low level guy and very comparable to a guy like Aiken in terms of market value, but when you watch him you see a top 20-30 WR imo and maybe even higher with the right offense. He's exactly the type of WR the Ravens always get, Damse, Boldin, SR, but the difference is he's entering his prime. I have no doubt he'd be able to bring what Wallace did but on a more consistent level if given the same opportunities as Mike. He'd help bring a chain moving stabilizing presence to the offense and it'd actually open up more down field opportunities for Wallace.

My mindset is a bit different from the masses of Ravens fans. I feel if you have a OC that has pass happy tendencies and a QB who loves being aggressive, just supply them with the proper talent to compliment this instead of forcing them into a box they're uncomfortable with. I definitely understand we need to run more. I just think building the passing game is more important in today's NFL.

 

[nextgen_RavensFan]

I do not understand what i just read about us looking for another RB. We have a fine set already and could not use them correctly so why on earth do we need another RB ? Are the issues with not implementing the run game Dixon's fault.The guy can move the ball when he is asked to. Would rather spend the time, effort and money on making the O'line better and then use the run game more. Would help the entire team. 

[jboy19]

27 minutes ago, nextgen_RavensFan said:

I do not understand what i just read about us looking for another RB. We have a fine set already and could not use them correctly so why on earth do we need another RB ? Are the issues with not implementing the run game Dixon's fault.The guy can move the ball when he is asked to. Would rather spend the time, effort and money on making the O'line better and then use the run game more. Would help the entire team. 

Seemed from Harbaugh's comment that they're looking for a scat back. They're a dime a dozen though, so it won't be difficult to bring a couple in to compete. Harbaugh also seemed to say Buck Allen could still fill that role. Either way it doesn't seem like RB is going to be a flashy or big name move this offseason. 

[BmoreBird22]

45 minutes ago, jboy19 said:

Seemed from Harbaugh's comment that they're looking for a scat back. They're a dime a dozen though, so it won't be difficult to bring a couple in to compete. Harbaugh also seemed to say Buck Allen could still fill that role. Either way it doesn't seem like RB is going to be a flashy or big name move this offseason. 

Curtis Samuel type? Where's he projected to go?

[jboy19]

7 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Curtis Samuel type? Where's he projected to go?

Yeah i think that's the type, but I'm not sure about where Samuel will go  

[jazz1988]

59 minutes ago, nextgen_RavensFan said:

I do not understand what i just read about us looking for another RB. We have a fine set already and could not use them correctly so why on earth do we need another RB ? Are the issues with not implementing the run game Dixon's fault.The guy can move the ball when he is asked to. Would rather spend the time, effort and money on making the O'line better and then use the run game more. Would help the entire team. 

Terrance West and Loreanzo Taliferro  are both on their last deal once the new season starts. Buck Allen has impress at times but The Ravens barely used him  Harbaugh may be talking about a running back that's solid with pass blocking, can make plays with the ball in his hands either when running with the ball or being thrown to by the quarterback and etc . I believe they used their fullback Juice alot on third downs to protect Joe Flacco and not sure if he's going to re-signed.

[Bruce_Almty]

Third and 8, pass complete to Pitta, good for 6 yards. Third and 3, 30 yard pass to Pitta incomplete. Another boring season of Raven offense. smh

[Willbacker]

Harbaugh is the captain and he'll go down with the ship. Glug.glug glug.

[gtalk12]

16 minutes ago, Bruce_Almty said:

Third and 8, pass complete to Pitta, good for 6 yards. Third and 3, 30 yard pass to Pitta incomplete. Another boring season of Raven offense. smh

 

Lets give Marty a chance, our offense did look better with him calling the shots. An offseason to put in what he wants and get the guys to buy in should net us some results. It will either stay the same or improve, our O-Line is only going to get stronger with a healthy Yanda and Alex Lewis.

[DomMcRaven]

7 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

struggling in the brain thinkin compartments here... who is wright? kendall?

Kendall Wright indeed.

[Crabcakes&Football]

Ironic that we wanted to run Cam Cameron out of town, and Ray Rice was largely unappreciated during his last few years here. I'd take the offense we had back then over the one we have now. Joe Flacco was far more efficient and competent when he had a strong run game and an offensive philosophy that was committed to that , almost to a fault. It's no coincidence that our only good offensive year since then came with Kubiak's offense. To go forward we must look to the past. Flacco is who he is, he can win a superbowl, he can make incredible throws when you need them. But to run a successful offense we must be absolutely committed to bringing our run game back off life support. That should be priority #1. Keep juice, keep Wagner, invest in your o line. And if Dennison becomes available get him!

[ellicottraven]

On 1/5/2017 at 11:49 AM, rmcjacket23 said:

Updated to reflect last four years only (2013-2016), including playoffs

< 25 attempts : 2-0

25-29 attempts: 6-0

30-34 attempts: 10-6

35-39 attempts: 6-4

40-44 attempts: 3-4

45-49 attempts: 2-8

50+ attempts: 1-8

So in the last four years, the "dropoff" seems to be once he gets into the 40+ pass attempt range. Ravens have a 70% win percentage in the last four years when he throws less than 40 times. Its still even a 65% win percentage if he throws it less than 45 attempts, so that's probably the high range.

But the important stat is it is 100% when he throws fewer than 30 times! So the verdict is in! We sit Joe right after his 29th pass no matter the quarter and a victory is assured. 

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

Can somebody tell me how Martyball staying helps this pathetic excuse for an offense?

He thinks a running back is best used as a receiver. He thinks a deep route is simply a decoy to create space for the running backs route.

And then theres Joe (I only have eyes on my primary target, eyes locked on it, no matter the defensive alignment, I cant see it, so it must not be there) and the primary is a back. Ugh, good luck

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

I will give Marty 1 Prop..... .........wait for it..............

Marty was the only Ravens coordinator in the Harbaugh era confused Offensive system that finally started using the middle of the field in the passing game, and they worked.....we started seeing regular crossing routes and slants........I have been asking for years where was this play

[DomMcRaven]

3 hours ago, ellicottraven said:

But the important stat is it is 100% when he throws fewer than 30 times! So the verdict is in! We sit Joe right after his 29th pass no matter the quarter and a victory is assured. 

Even if our defense is getting torn to shreds against a team like GB?

[ellicottraven]

44 minutes ago, DomMcRaven said:

Even if our defense is getting torn to shreds against a team like GB?

Okay let's use your assumption. How is it going to matter if Flacco throws many more times because either way we lose based on the stats? But, on the other hand if we run the ball effectively then it is really unlikely the GB is shredding our defense to shreds because they wouldn't have as many opportunities to do that. Again all this is hypothetical anyway. The fact that we won all those games when Flacco threw for 30 times or less is because our run game was effective and the overall game snaps were limited both for the Ravens and their opponents. What would be interesting is to find out in those games that we won when Flacco threw under 30 times is to find out what the ToP was for us and our opponents and the total snaps for the offense. I really think it isn't how many times Flacco throws the ball, but if the ratio of run vs pass is around 45-50%. So if we had 70 offensive snaps in the game, then it's completely okay for Flacco to throw more than 35 times. However, there is a finite limit to the snap count on offense and that has to be factored in.

 

[DomMcRaven]

Just now, ellicottraven said:

Okay let's use your assumption. How is it going to matter if Flacco throws many more times because either way we lose based on the stats? But, on the other hand if we run the ball effectively then it is really unlikely the GB is shredding our defense to shreds because they wouldn't have as many opportunities to do that. Again all this is hypothetical anyway. The fact that we won all those games when Flacco threw for 30 times or less is because our run game was effective and the overall game snaps were limited both for the Ravens and their opponents. What would be interesting is to find out in those games that we won when Flacco threw under 30 times is to find out what the ToP was for us and our opponents and the total snaps for the offense. I really think it isn't how many times Flacco throws the ball, but if the ratio of run vs pass is around 45-50%. So if we had 70 offensive snaps in the game, then it's completely okay for Flacco to throw more than 35 times. However, there is a finite limit to the snap count on offense and that has to be factored in.

 

I think that's the key phrase right there, but I'm also playing devil's advocate as well. I WISH it's a guaranteed victory if Flacco throws < 30 passes.