Marty stays...fixing the offense heading into 2017

[Ravensfan23]

It's official Marty is here to stay. The question now is what does this offense do to improve?

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

It won't. We will probably continue to abandon the run. What we'd need to do is improve the oline but I don't think it will matter.

 

its honestly the worst decision we could have made. I have 0 faith in marty

[Florida Ravens Fan]

Seriously Pissed right now. This decision will get Harbaugh fired next year if we fail to make the playoffs again. 

W

[rmw10]

I've never been one to blame coaching, but retaining Marty is an awful decision that I believe will end up costing Harbaugh his job this time next year.  You can point to all of the stats that you want in regards to the improved PPG under Marty, but it's the situational football that makes him awful.  How many times are we going to pass the ball in obvious running situations?  How many times are we going to throw a screen pass on 3rd and 10 (because we threw 2 incomplete passes prior)?  Unless Marty has something drastically different than what we've seen so far, some heads are going to roll next year.

[ALI624]

I'm preparing for a 7-9 or 8-8 record next year if healthy, 4-12 or 5-11 if we are not.  

[ludy51]

Are you FREAKING kidding me!?

[sharkh20]

Another year of 8 and 8 football or worse.  I just don't know if my heart can take watching it anymore.  Same mistakes every year.  Change nothing.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Look, I get the reaction... but i think we need to hold off on the emotional response.

Marty was promoted mid-season, with no time to really implement his offense. So, he was at a real handicap there.

The basis of what he had to find a way to work with was largely Trestman's version of the WCO which obviously didnt fit our personnel. You cant just scrap what the team spent 3-4 months prior learning.

The offense did improve under him, if only marginally.

We saw a game against the Steelers, with a solid game plan and great play calling. It was far less frequent than you'd hope, but i digress.

 

It wasnt the great improvement we hoped to see - but i dont know that expecting great improvement with all the things leveraged against him was really a legit expectation.

I'm ok with giving him a full offseason to implement his scheme and his version of the WCO. 

Also, i get it. Harbs has a vision of what he wants, and with Marty not wowing, he knows hes on thin ice, and therefore is easier to control. If Harbs wants a bigger commitment to the run - it will happen. Or he'll be gone.

 

I would however, as ive mentioned before, like to see us hire a strong QB Coach to supplement Marty. Joe needs someone to work closely with him and get back on his mechanics and be his voice in the offensive coaching room. Dennison is my preference here - dont know how likely or realistic that is... but someone needs to be brought in specifically to work with Joe.

If we can do that, Im totally fine with giving Marty a full offseason and year to prove himself.

[usmccharles]

Wow, should add a poll to this thread, cant imagine anyone here is happy about this. 

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

1 minute ago, rmw10 said:

I've never been one to blame coaching, but retaining Marty is an awful decision that I believe will end up costing Harbaugh his job this time next year.  You can point to all of the stats that you want in regards to the improved PPG under Marty, but it's the situational football that makes him awful.  How many times are we going to pass the ball in obvious running situations?  How many times are we going to throw a screen pass on 3rd and 10 (because we threw 2 incomplete passes prior)?  Unless Marty has something drastically different than what we've seen so far, some heads are going to roll next year.

He won't. Harbaugh is committed to continuity. What could honestly be different. I'm low key on the fire Harbaugh train now. 

 

 

Im prepared for no playoffs next year tbh

[Dr. Kelley]

4 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

I've never been one to blame coaching, but retaining Marty is an awful decision that I believe will end up costing Harbaugh his job this time next year.  You can point to all of the stats that you want in regards to the improved PPG under Marty, but it's the situational football that makes him awful.  How many times are we going to pass the ball in obvious running situations?  How many times are we going to throw a screen pass on 3rd and 10 (because we threw 2 incomplete passes prior)?  Unless Marty has something drastically different than what we've seen so far, some heads are going to roll next year.

This team has become awful at situational football over the last 4 seasons. Pees has been throwing away 4th quarter leads as fast as he can get them for the last 5 years now and Marty couldnt find the endzone if he was standing it.

 

Harbaugh is one cocky guy if he thinks he is going to come out of this and it wont cost him his job. 

Edited January 3 by Dr. Kelley
Spelling

[OUravensfan]

I want to be positive and embrace continuity but two bothersome things with both Trestmann and Marty:

a.) It seemed like we lacked an identity, couldn't figure out if we should be running or passing, eventually every game devolved into us throwing 35+. Brady, Ben etc all had games where they threw for more TDs with less than 30 attempts which leads me to my second point

b.) Everything seemed so, so hard. Super inefficient, I cannot watch another year where we have to throw to run, and can't achieve > 8 YPA, these are serious issues that I think are telling with the underlying offensive philosophy (or lack there of)

This decision really puts Harbaugh under the microscope going forward, these are the guys he wants to roll with. On offense, we need to see much greater efficiency, I want bigger plays, I want more effective runs and way, way more PA with actual deep throws. Joe Flacco is not a dink and dunk QB, for gods sake play to his strengths.

On defense it's quite simple, can we be clutch? I'm so tired of arguing over is it players or methodology? Idc anymore, we better make the playoffs next year.

Edited January 3 by OUravensfan

[rmcjacket23]

Pees and Rosburg will be retained as well, per Harbaugh.

So no Coordinator changes expected for 2017.

[GrimCoconut]

Not sure I like this move at all but we damn well better bring in a QB coach because this guy isn't at all cutting it. 

[Dr. Kelley]

2 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Pees and Rosburg will be retained as well, per Harbaugh.

So no Coordinator changes expected for 2017.

If you keep doing what you've always done, you're gonna get what you've always got.

 

Looks like we are missing the playoffs next year too

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

1 minute ago, GrimCoconut said:

Not sure I like this move at all but we damn well better bring in a QB coach because this guy isn't at all cutting it. 

This is my thing. Im ok with bringing marty back, but we need a Dennison in the QB room with joe to focus on his mechanics or we're not going anywhere regardless.

 

Look - i know people hate this move.... but Joes the guy whether anyone likes it or not. He wants continuity and thats going to play a large part in the decision making. He has a relationship with Marty, and thinks he can make it work with him. When your franchise player, who's most effected by said decision endorses keeping the current guy - you do it.

I think this puts more pressure on Joe than Harbs to be honest... 

[Florida Ravens Fan]

We won a whopping 3 more games woohoo. And shoukd of lost to Eagles if they would of ran it most likely a TD since we couldn't stop the run. Bit I guess they are happy being average. Over reaction but pissed off right now!!

[OUravensfan]

1 minute ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

This is my thing. Im ok with bringing marty back, but we need a Dennison in the QB room with joe to focus on his mechanics or we're not going anywhere regardless.

 

Look - i know people hate this move.... but Joes the guy whether anyone likes it or not. He wants continuity and thats going to play a large part in the decision making. He has a relationship with Marty, and thinks he can make it work with him. When your franchise player, who's most effected by said decision endorses keeping the current guy - you do it.

I think this puts more pressure on Joe than Harbs to be honest... 

Fair, we need to improve the O-line drastically, it was awful, among the league worse. That will go miles and miles. 

When watching other games it's maddening when you see how clean pockets can be and subsequently, how wide open WRs can get. We never seem to do a good job of scheming guys open, did we get anyone as open as Brady had Hogan against us?

[rmw10]

And @Ravensfan23, you were right.  I wish you weren't, but you called it.  I certainly hope it turns out how you expect and now how I expect.

[JoeyFlex5]

Not happy about it but not surprised. I thought everyone was way too certain he was gone. There isn't much out there that won't involve another OC change next year because they're all HC candidates as well. I thought the players speaking out about the gameplanning was a sign that he was gone but I can't say I'm surprised. 

Also, Marty has called his fair share of top 10 rushing attacks, maybe under his own playbook and if harbaugh keeps him on a leash it won't be so bad.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

1 minute ago, OUravensfan said:

Fair, we need to improve the O-line drastically, it was awful, among the league worse. That will go miles and miles. 

When watching other games it's maddening when you see how clean pockets can be and subsequently, how wide open WRs can get. We never seem to do a good job of scheming guys open, did we get anyone as open as Brady had Hogan against us?

Yea- there was much more than an "inept" Marty holding this offense back.

And honestly, we dont even really know what Marty as the Ravens OC is yet. We got Marty-strapped-to-Trestmans-foundation, with an injury ravaged and poor OL.

Flacco hasnt had continuity in his career at all... and most, even Flacco supporters, cite this as the #1 thing thats held him back. Now, we want to scrap and start over again? I get why Joe doesnt want that. As soon as he learns one thing and gets comfortable, on to the next.

Maybe our inefficiency on offense has been because we havent stuck with any one guy long enough for the personnel to get on board and perfect the scheme? Who knows... maybe im making excuses bc i knew the inevitability of the situation...

But, there are very fair reasons to give Marty another chance... chief among them Flacco's endorsement. 

[sharkh20]

I'm honestly more upset about the Pees situation than this one.  Even if our offense improves, we will just blow whatever leads we create.  Our defense collapses with a lead almost every time.

[Purple_City39]

Not really surprising.  I'm more surprised at all the people that are surprised lol

[BmoreBird22]

Pretty disgusted with this move and it feels like Harbaugh is okay settling for complete mediocrity for the sake of not having change. Why not even just hold an interview process and interview Marty further to decide whether you want to make a change or not? To not even entertain the idea of an interview process just baffles me.

And I will say this again- Every single WCO playbook features the same plays and the same routes run. There is not some major difference from playbook to playbook. If you want to install a new play, the players have run every single route and have familiarity with every single route combination that installing a new wrinkle would not be back breaking. I will again point to the example of Caldwell after he took over from Cameron. Caldwell had the exact same playbook, but the Ravens usage of crossing routes and slant routes with Boldin and Pitta literally exponentially increased. It wasn't like Cameron (who was given a whole lot shorter of time than Marty) all of a sudden installed some new plays or some new looks. He just used different plays out of the same playbook that the same players had learned several months prior. 

Also, let's say it was Trestman's playbook. Why does that stop you from having a consistent run-pass balance? Why does that excuse you from having the worst first half run total in the NFL? Why is it okay to pass in obvious run situations? He was the damn quarterbacks coach and Flacco's mechanics never improved.

I loved how the Ravens put up a stat about PPG for a four week stretch.... out of 11 weeks as the OC. Marty even had the damn bye week if he really wanted to work on getting some of "his plays" in there, as some like to put it.

This is an absolutely disgusting move that I think will cost Harbaugh his job.

[AsianRice]

I don't think Marty is solving any of current offensive problems...

 

Kubiak was successful here in B-more cuz he brought with him a QB coach; Joe doesn't have one and it looks like he's losing his mechanics at some points of the season.

 

If we roll with Marty without a legitimate QB coach, 2017 is another disappointment season......

[jimmypowder]

19 minutes ago, Florida Ravens Fan said:

Seriously Pissed right now. This decision will get Harbaugh fired next year if we fail to make the playoffs again. 

W

That's the whole point of the front office bringing everyone back . 

If they fail by not getting to the playoffs they are ALL fired ! 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

1 minute ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Pretty disgusted with this move and it feels like Harbaugh is okay settling for complete mediocrity for the sake of not having change. Why not even just hold an interview process and interview Marty further to decide whether you want to make a change or not? To not even entertain the idea of an interview process just baffles me.

And I will say this again- Every single WCO playbook features the same plays and the same routes run. There is not some major difference from playbook to playbook. If you want to install a new play, the players have run every single route and have familiarity with every single route combination that installing a new wrinkle would not be back breaking. I will again point to the example of Caldwell after he took over from Cameron. Caldwell had the exact same playbook, but the Ravens usage of crossing routes and slant routes with Boldin and Pitta literally exponentially increased. It wasn't like Cameron (who was given a whole lot shorter of time than Marty) all of a sudden installed some new plays or some new looks. He just used different plays out of the same playbook that the same players had learned several months prior. 

Also, let's say it was Trestman's playbook. Why does that stop you from having a consistent run-pass balance? Why does that excuse you from having the worst first half run total in the NFL? Why is it okay to pass in obvious run situations? He was the damn quarterbacks coach and Flacco's mechanics never improved.

I loved how the Ravens put up a stat about PPG for a four week stretch.... out of 11 weeks as the OC. Marty even had the damn bye week if he really wanted to work on getting some of "his plays" in there, as some like to put it.

This is an absolutely disgusting move that I think will cost Harbaugh his job.

It's not just the plays. It's the philosophy of what you call in what situations. What builds on to the next play. What hot route you want here and why. What the OC wants against a certain coverage... its a lot more that foundational building plan of how you want your players thinking based on what they see as an extension of the OC's philosophy that can be so different from one play caller to the next.

Plus there's the repetition in the offseason of certain plays and routes that are your go to's... that may be different from playcaller to playcaller.

 

Regardless of what it is - there's more to the differences between one WCO and another then just tendencies of the same exact plays being called... and more to a transition between two OC's than just which of these groups of plays you call.

[rmw10]

6 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Pretty disgusted with this move and it feels like Harbaugh is okay settling for complete mediocrity for the sake of not having change. Why not even just hold an interview process and interview Marty further to decide whether you want to make a change or not? To not even entertain the idea of an interview process just baffles me.

And I will say this again- Every single WCO playbook features the same plays and the same routes run. There is not some major difference from playbook to playbook. If you want to install a new play, the players have run every single route and have familiarity with every single route combination that installing a new wrinkle would not be back breaking. I will again point to the example of Caldwell after he took over from Cameron. Caldwell had the exact same playbook, but the Ravens usage of crossing routes and slant routes with Boldin and Pitta literally exponentially increased. It wasn't like Cameron (who was given a whole lot shorter of time than Marty) all of a sudden installed some new plays or some new looks. He just used different plays out of the same playbook that the same players had learned several months prior. 

Also, let's say it was Trestman's playbook. Why does that stop you from having a consistent run-pass balance? Why does that excuse you from having the worst first half run total in the NFL? Why is it okay to pass in obvious run situations? He was the damn quarterbacks coach and Flacco's mechanics never improved.

I loved how the Ravens put up a stat about PPG for a four week stretch.... out of 11 weeks as the OC. Marty even had the damn bye week if he really wanted to work on getting some of "his plays" in there, as some like to put it.

This is an absolutely disgusting move that I think will cost Harbaugh his job.

Agreed entirely.  I think too many people are using the he didn't have time to implement his playbook excuse.

1.  As you said, route concepts are generally the same from WCO playbook to another WCO playbook.  There are changes but not to the point where we're going to see a drastically different offensive game plan next year.

2.  It doesn't excuse his awful situational football decisions.

Edited January 3 by rmw10

[nextgen_RavensFan]

I do not understand how Marty is the entire issue with the offense. He did not make Joe throw the int's in the end zone and am thinking influences from Harbaugh have helped to abandon the run game. You have to admit that Harb's play calling has been very suspect and cost us games. I think if left to call the game without others 2 cents being added in he will be ok. Just needs to be able to trust Joe's decision making which is taking a big leap in faith as Joe has proven to be less than the sharpest tool in the shed.

[Deflated Football]

I wonder who Harbaugh will be coaching in 2018.