Moving Forward and Press Conference

[Neal Could Block the SUN!!]

22 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

i know you think we misuse timouts and we do sometimes but other teams "waste" them too but you just dont watch as closely see andy reed, hue jackson, marvin lewis, or in qb terms i saw a few times this season brady calling timeout with the playclock winding down - every team has these issues and to be honest i thought the ravens cleaned up their act significantly this season in that regard - the obligatory timeout and pointless challenge that became memes in the 2015 season surprised me when they happened in 2016 because we went long stretches without them happening

You can't be serious?

 

I agree that all teams face the play and game clock for 60 minutes each week of the season.  Yes, I have watched Brady, Roethlisberger, and both Manning's need to call the occasional time out for a bad play call, formational, or similar concern.  We tend to burn 1-2 time outs per game just trying to get organized.  I don't agree that it has gotten better.  Stayed the same maybe, but improved, no.

 

[rossihunter2]

1 minute ago, Neal Could Block the SUN!! said:

You can't be serious?

 

I agree that all teams face the play and game clock for 60 minutes each week of the season.  Yes, I have watched Brady, Roethlisberger, and both Manning's need to call the occasional time out for a bad play call, formational, or similar concern.  We tend to burn 1-2 time outs per game just trying to get organized.  I don't agree that it has gotten better.  Stayed the same maybe, but improved, no.

 

it's a lot higher in your memory than mine because i saw that dodgy timeout in the steelers game and thought to myself - oh yeah same ol' and then thought back and couldnt remember the last wasted timeout like that

likewise the challenge at the beginning of the bengals game i was like oh yeah same ol' and then couldnt remember the last time harbs challenged anything let alone made a bad challenge

[Rav'n Maniac]

20 minutes ago, Neal Could Block the SUN!! said:

Aahhh- I see it's the you found the problem so you have to fix it mentality- fair enough and since you asked-

1) Be aware of the play clock.  I see other times pump their hands towards the sky and get the play clock reset when applicable.  I have never seen Flacco or any other O' player make this motion.  If not able to reset the clock, at the very least be aware that you either have 40 or 25 seconds to run a play.  Flacco, in his 9th year, should be highly cognizant by now that he does not have limitless time to stand around and then run a play at his desired time.

From a coaching stand point- be aware that a play clock is running and if you're $120M QB is ignorantly standing around, radio in, send a player, burn a flare, do something to wake him up and get moving.  For the QB and coaching staff to miss the play clock all together and have to take a time out <2 minutes into any game or quarter is ridiculous.

 

2) Excessive clock waste while losing is just unpalatable from a fan standpoint.  The game in New England was not over, yet the Ravens entire staff allowed 6 minutes to burn off the clock.  Why?  Not like they were struggling for a play.  Time and time again, players were jogging to the line or the line was set and Flacco would take his time getting into formation.  Makes no sense.  Run the no huddle or the sugar huddle.  At the very least burn less than half the play clock between plays.  This starts with the coaching staff and needs to run through the players.  A sense of urgency when losing.  Simply controlling the clock and realizing that a large amount of the 4th qtr has burned off and you have not moved the ball should put a fire under their collective butt.  Not to mention, we had already wasted time outs early in the 2nd half because of point 1.

Either way- be aware that this is a clock management game.  Whether its game or play clock, be aware of it.

 

Thanks for responding. Obviously, it comes down to the situation at hand and with all situational football, how well you perform at it is based on how much it is addressed during practice. This is one place where I feel we have failed as a team.

Every team will address it during camp and each will finish a days practice with some sort of situational drive. Imo, this is where the emphasis has to be placed to perform it efficiently and quickly. You play as you practiced and from what we have seen on the field during games, we aren't emphasizing it enough.

[ravensdfan]

On 1/3/2017 at 11:20 AM, Perfekt said:

Yeah I get to look forward to watching Flacco regress more and 4 quarter blown leads.

We are interviewing QB coaches - so that says to me they understand that Flacco regressed. Personally, I think it was more a mental issue after the injury, or perhaps wearing a leg brace for the entire season. As for the 4th quarter blown leads that have plagued us since Pees' arrival - much like the Pees' defenders on this forum - it appears that Harbs is in denial in that area.

On 1/4/2017 at 1:18 PM, January J said:

Flacco and pitta had nothing to do with it.. Their comments had no bearing on the decision whatsoever...

And if you think that Ozzie and bisciotti didn't have just as much of a say in the decision as harbaugh then you haven't watched them do business over the last 8 or 9 years. This is a tight knit group that doesn't make decisions unless everybody's on board. There weren't many other options- certainly none that were any better, and yet ANOTHER change and ANOTHER mindset coming in could have been even more detrimental to the team. So that had to be weighed with the option of letting the guy who already has a relationship with his players actually get a full off season to do his thing.

As far as the decision to keep Dean- I mean its hard to argue against somebody who had a top 5 unit in that many different categories. This is a smart guy who's been around for a lonnng time. He knows what needs to be done- and we need to get him some pass rush to work with.  He has gotten the most out of some very mediocre groups and made lemonade when given lemons. Hes been put in some very tough situations and had to game plan for some of the biggest games without our #1 corner. Lets get him some real depth to work with.  I wouldn't have been surprised or opposed to a change at either of these positions... But at some point  its on the players to execute and produce.

Or how about a commitment to continuity? Nothing wrong with being loyal and trusting your guys to get things right. I'd rather carry on with the same group who knows the mistakes they made and know what they need to improve as opposed to hitting the reset button and taking a chance on the unknown. We obviously aren't far away as we missed the playoffs by 1 game , nearly won the north and almost all the games we lost were only by one score or less. We're a player or two away.. Commit to pass rushing and having a more balanced offense and we're right there.

Well I mean, Pees has been here 5 seasons and still has that same stick his head in the sand & hope for the best 4th quarter D. I think that is pushing loyalty and heading into stubborness and stupidity. Either way, Harbs could well have punched his ticket out of town after next season since he said it was HIS decision.

[rossihunter2]

2 hours ago, ravensdfan said:

We are interviewing QB coaches - so that says to me they understand that Flacco regressed. Personally, I think it was more a mental issue after the injury, or perhaps wearing a leg brace for the entire season.

yes it might be mental but it was a regression that started before his injury - flacco's footwork and release has visibly regressed since 2014 and he needs to improve his mechanics again

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

Castro or Castillo?

[rmcjacket23]

2 hours ago, ravensdfan said:

We are interviewing QB coaches - so that says to me they understand that Flacco regressed. Personally, I think it was more a mental issue after the injury, or perhaps wearing a leg brace for the entire season. As for the 4th quarter blown leads that have plagued us since Pees' arrival - much like the Pees' defenders on this forum - it appears that Harbs is in denial in that area.

Well I mean, Pees has been here 5 seasons and still has that same stick his head in the sand & hope for the best 4th quarter D. I think that is pushing loyalty and heading into stubborness and stupidity. Either way, Harbs could well have punched his ticket out of town after next season since he said it was HIS decision.

Well, we're also interviewing QB coaches because we don't have one. Marty was that guy before we fired Trestman, and we finished the season without one I believe.

I'm sure the coaching staff is aware of Flacco's issues, but I don't think they would ignore hiring a QB coach even if he was playing well.

Edited January 8 by rmcjacket23

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

On 1/3/2017 at 11:07 AM, ellicottraven said:

Well John is talking the same old talk again. It is tiresome to watch him go on about how we need to do better and we will. Trying really hard to rationalize keeping all his coaches except add more players. I think we are doomed for 2017 if he keeps his coordinators. Just said explicitly that he is going to keep the coordinators. We are screwed and he must go in my view! This is just such a bummer because Marty is going to stay.

Marty and I both believe in running the football! He is so full of 'dung' it is unbelievable. He's keeping Marty simply because Flacco and Pitta put pressure on this guy coupled with his loyalty to his assistants.

I don't know about you, but I'm just dejected with the Ravens brass at this point.He also just said the players believe in him (I'm assuming he means Flacco and Pitta) and he believes in Marty too (loyalty I suppose). Same old cliches such as 'Get good at what we do', 'we are going to go to work', 'we are just a few plays away', 'we're fighting every single day to be great at what we do', etc.

We are going to have another failed season if nothing changes and that isn't forthcoming based on every cliche I've heard from John Harbaugh. I feel defeated as a fan by the team that I adore and by the owner I hold in high esteem.

You forgot to mention, "WE ARE GOING TO RUN THE BALL" and rarely does

[rossihunter2]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Well, we're also interviewing QB coaches because we don't have one. Marty was that guy before we fired Trestman, and we finished the season without one I believe.

I'm sure the coaching staff is aware of Flacco's issues, but I don't think they would ignore hiring a QB coach even if he was playing well.

he doesnt always have a qb coach - its not a vacancy that's always been filled - so i do think there's something to harbaugh specifically mentioning that they are out looking for a qb coach

[frozen joe flacco fan]

On ‎1‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 1:18 PM, January J said:

Flacco and pitta had nothing to do with it.. Their comments had no bearing on the decision whatsoever...

And if you think that Ozzie and bisciotti didn't have just as much of a say in the decision as harbaugh then you haven't watched them do business over the last 8 or 9 years. This is a tight knit group that doesn't make decisions unless everybody's on board. There weren't many other options- certainly none that were any better, and yet ANOTHER change and ANOTHER mindset coming in could have been even more detrimental to the team. So that had to be weighed with the option of letting the guy who already has a relationship with his players actually get a full off season to do his thing.

As far as the decision to keep Dean- I mean its hard to argue against somebody who had a top 5 unit in that many different categories. This is a smart guy who's been around for a lonnng time. He knows what needs to be done- and we need to get him some pass rush to work with.  He has gotten the most out of some very mediocre groups and made lemonade when given lemons. Hes been put in some very tough situations and had to game plan for some of the biggest games without our #1 corner. Lets get him some real depth to work with.  I wouldn't have been surprised or opposed to a change at either of these positions... But at some point  its on the players to execute and produce.

Or how about a commitment to continuity? Nothing wrong with being loyal and trusting your guys to get things right. I'd rather carry on with the same group who knows the mistakes they made and know what they need to improve as opposed to hitting the reset button and taking a chance on the unknown. We obviously aren't far away as we missed the playoffs by 1 game , nearly won the north and almost all the games we lost were only by one score or less. We're a player or two away.. Commit to pass rushing and having a more balanced offense and we're right there.

I am sorry but this is undeniably delusional. Denial isn't just a river in Egypt. The organization needs to change its culture if we are to return to the promised land. If we're only a player or two away, why did we allow a 3rd string RB to run roughshod through our defense in Cincinnati? This team needs a S, CB, OLB, C, RT, 2WRs, TE and a thoroughbred RB (U know like a horse) to get back into the foxhunt. Otherwise, we will have to be content with mediocrity again. Our regular season record since the Super Bowl is 31-33 but it is getting worse, not better. In the last two seasons under Harry Houdini Harbaugh - not, our regular season record is 13-19. I may have overstated our personnel needs because Campanaro and Waller or Maxx could fill two of the above needs but you have grossly understated our needs. This team is undisciplined and complacent and that's a coaching problem. What good is a commitment to continuity when we are continuously mediocre? Bring in Matt Patricia, Steve!

"Culture eats strategy for breakfast." - Peter Druecker  

[rmcjacket23]

36 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

he doesnt always have a qb coach - its not a vacancy that's always been filled - so i do think there's something to harbaugh specifically mentioning that they are out looking for a qb coach

08-09 - Hue Jackson

10 - Jim Zorn

11 - Craig Ver Steeg (technically an "Offensive Assistant", though he was assigned to work with the QBs)

12 - Jim Caldwell (moved to OC mid-season)

13 - Craig Ver Steeg (same role as 2011)

14 - Rick Dennison

15-16 - Marty Mornhinweg

2011 and 2013 were the only years where you could argue we didn't have an official "QB coach", though Craig Ver Steeg has been in the organization a long time as a Senior Offensive Assistant and specifically works with the QBs.

So yes, the majority of the time, we have a QB coach on the roster. We have had one for the last three seasons.

[January J]

39 minutes ago, frozen joe flacco fan said:

I am sorry but this is undeniably delusional. Denial isn't just a river in Egypt. The organization needs to change its culture if we are to return to the promised land. If we're only a player or two away, why did we allow a 3rd string RB to run roughshod through our defense in Cincinnati? This team needs a S, CB, OLB, C, RT, 2WRs, TE and a thoroughbred RB (U know like a horse) to get back into the foxhunt. Otherwise, we will have to be content with mediocrity again. Our regular season record since the Super Bowl is 31-33 but it is getting worse, not better. In the last two seasons under Harry Houdini Harbaugh - not, our regular season record is 13-19. I may have overstated our personnel needs because Campanaro and Waller or Maxx could fill two of the above needs but you have grossly understated our needs. This team is undisciplined and complacent and that's a coaching problem. What good is a commitment to continuity when we are continuously mediocre? Bring in Matt Patricia, Steve!

"Culture eats strategy for breakfast." - Peter Druecker  

Have you seen the teams in the playoffs so far? We can hang with any of them. We took Pittsburgh to the brink of defeat in their house. We lost by 6 inches. One play such as a tipped ball or a stripped sack and were likely Afc north champions and hosting the fish whom we filleted about a month ago. So yes- I believe we are a couple players away. A top notch pass rusher- a vet receiver- and a serviceable above average corner to play opposite jimmy- or to fill in when he goes down...and we're right there.  We had a top ranked defense almost all year and that was with hardly no pass rush. Imagine if we get that going how much better we will be and how much it will help the secondary!  Actually commit to running the ball  on offense- controlling the clock and keeping the defense fresh while opening things up for the deep ball and play action and we can get things rolling on both sides of the ball. I'm trying not to drink too much cool aid but we do have a strong foundation in place and if we have another draft anywhere similar to 2016's we will be in great shape.

[RavensFanMania]

11 minutes ago, January J said:

Have you seen the teams in the playoffs so far? We can hang with any of them. We took Pittsburgh to the brink of defeat in their house. We lost by 6 inches. One play such as a tipped ball or a stripped sack and were likely Afc north champions and hosting the fish whom we filleted about a month ago. So yes- I believe we are a couple players away. A top notch pass rusher- a vet receiver- and a serviceable above average corner to play opposite jimmy- or to fill in when he goes down...and we're right there.  We had a top ranked defense almost all year and that was with hardly no pass rush. Imagine if we get that going how much better we will be and how much it will help the secondary!  Actually commit to running the ball  on offense- controlling the clock and keeping the defense fresh while opening things up for the deep ball and play action and we can get things rolling on both sides of the ball. I'm trying not to drink too much cool aid but we do have a strong foundation in place and if we have another draft anywhere similar to 2016's we will be in great shape.

We already have one player I'm excited to see next year and that is Kaufusi.  I was excited that we drafted him and am looking forward to seeing him next year.  I'm also hoping that Maxx Williams can come back strong.  He was starting to look good in 2015 and if he can get that back and continue his upward momentum he could be the player we thought he was when we traded up to get him.

[January J]

25 minutes ago, RavensFanMania said:

We already have one player I'm excited to see next year and that is Kaufusi.  I was excited that we drafted him and am looking forward to seeing him next year.  I'm also hoping that Maxx Williams can come back strong.  He was starting to look good in 2015 and if he can get that back and continue his upward momentum he could be the player we thought he was when we traded up to get him.

Sadly Im more excited about Waller than Maxx. Hate to say that. Hopefully they both can improve.

[Moderator 3]

We need a PLAYMAKER.  The teams that are playing next week have at least one.  

[ellicottraven]

7 minutes ago, Moderator 3 said:

We need a PLAYMAKER.  The teams that are playing next week have at least one.  

 many of those players happen to be QBs? Just curious...

[Moderator 3]

Just now, ellicottraven said:

 many of those players happen to be QBs? Just curious...

Not so much.  Ben barely broke a sweat.  His playmakers did all the work.

[Raven'evermore]

 If I may, I'd like to put forth a different perspective about the season and also moving forward to next season.

 1. Although we didn't experience the kind of injuries we did last season, we still had some key players out for a good part of the year.  Think how much our blocking could have been better had Crockett and Max been able to contribute. Maybe had opened the running game more. 

 2. I'm as excited about Perriman as ever.  Not only was this considered his rookie year, but he was out for most of the offseason and still made some spectacular plays.  I see a lot of deep passes. 

 3.  SSS retiring means more targets for our younger guys like Waller, Perriman, Williams, Waller, Moore...  Even Wallace should see more targets.  No offense to Sr.

 4.   2015, we went 5 & 11.  This year, 8 & 8.  Definite improvement.

 5.  Flacco should be fully healed (I hope).

 6.  I would like to see Harbs get away from the aggressive play attitude.  It's one thing if you have the personell, but I would like to see us play a bit more conservative, run the ball more and not take so many chances on fourth down (jmo). 

 7. Our running game can be one of the best with Dixon and West, if we improve the oline a bit more and run more than pass.

     My point is that while we do need improvement, we're at least moving forward.  Grape is my favorite Koolaid.

     Oh and I almost forgot; Camp actually stayed healthy.  Miracles do happen.

Edited January 8 by Raven'evermore

[ellicottraven]

1 hour ago, Moderator 3 said:

Not so much.  Ben barely broke a sweat.  His playmakers did all the work.

It seems to me that Rodgers, Brady and Wilson certainly fit that bill don't you? Even if in your opinion Ben without barely breaking a sweat still won handily. Look I'm not discounting the fact that we need playmakers but I think we also need astute play calling and good cerebral quarterbacking to get to the post season.

[Moderator 3]

3 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

It seems to me that Rodgers, Brady and Wilson certainly fit that bill don't you? Even if in your opinion Ben without barely breaking a sweat still won handily. Look I'm not discounting the fact that we need playmakers but I think we also need astute play calling and good cerebral quarterbacking to get to the post season.

Yes.  Put those 3 together and we would be unstoppable.