[News] Late For Work 1/3: Five Key Questions And Suggestions For Ravens Offseason

[whobilly]

I am a diehard Ravens fan , but i don't know if i can stomach another year of harbaugh speak(such a wimp) morningwigs calls, or pees lack of guts, so what are we supposed to do , ug I feel like a browns fan, I hope i am wrong, feeling disgusted.....

Things are not good.....they are not rock bottom like the Browns every year.

[whobilly]

Seems like we'll be keeping Mornhinweg next year

Can you say 7-9 or 8-8?

[budman]

#5 DUMERVIL... While the analysts criticize Dumervil using his injury and stats as a reason, I think it's somewhat unfair as he did suffer an ACL tear, and didn't make it back until week 12 or 13? It's the first real injury he's suffered. And he, apparently, worked his butt off to get back sooner.

I thought it was his Achilles?

[BiggMack91]

cut all these guys LB Elvis Dumervil: $6 million in savings
S Lardarius Webb: $5.5 million
TE Ben Watson: $3 million
CB Shareece Wright: $2.6 million
C Jeremy Zuttah: $2.3 million
CB Kyle Arrington: $2.1 million
S Kendrick Lewis: $1.8 million
fire all coaching staff start from scratch

[billiejean]

1 hour ago, The Mom Gene said:

1 hour ago, ByTheBay said:

1 hour ago, The Mom Gene said:

Agreed also... everybody is quick to throw the QB and the OC under the bus, on every team. Go check out some of the other boards. Guys and Gals I see on here that are comparing others to ours aren't really seeing that even coordinators that are being mentioned as potential here are in the very same boat. It's really sad that people cannot see beyond that. Joe's lack of protection, and the ability to get time for the plays to develop is HUGE...

If the OL is the problem then what changes would be made? Stanley stays, Lewis stays, Yanda stays, Wagner could stay. Is Zuttah really the one to blame for all of Joe's issues? I read somewhere he actually graded out pretty well the second half if the season.

We had 7 different Offensive line configurations in 5 games due to injuries. Guys moved all over the place to fill in. Once Stanley came back the left side was fine.  Lewis never did make it back.  Zuttah had more penalties than anyone on the line also. And sacks allowed up the middle??? Those are missed blocks by the Center or RB. I'm just saying... Watch a Dallas game. Prescott has ALL DAY LONG. Br*dy does as well. Look at teams with good O-Lines, and you'll see better performance out of the running and passing game.

Stanley had more penalties than anyone on the line this year.  That does't make his rookie year any less impressive though.  He is only going to get better from here

Edited January 3 by billiejean

[The Mom Gene]

1 minute ago, budman said:

I thought it was his Achilles?

whoops...  you're right, sorry.  Brain fart.  I'm old, what can I say?

[ByTheBay]

42 minutes ago, The Mom Gene said:

We had 7 different Offensive line configurations in 5 games due to injuries. Guys moved all over the place to fill in. Once Stanley came back the left side was fine.  Lewis never did make it back.  Zuttah had more penalties than anyone on the line also. And sacks allowed up the middle??? Those are missed blocks by the Center or RB. I'm just saying... Watch a Dallas game. Prescott has ALL DAY LONG. Br*dy does as well. Look at teams with good O-Lines, and you'll see better performance out of the running and passing game.

While I totally agree with what you are saying there is so much more that goes into how the oline performs than simply the linemen themselves. Many QB's do a better job helping out their oline by scrambling when needed, stepping up in the pocket and getting rid of the ball quickly. It's not like all of the teams that made the playoffs have great olines either. Another aspect of good oline play comes from the play calling. If the opposing team knows you pass 80% of the time they are going to come at you harder which really wears down those big linemen. Maybe thats why the OC's called so many short pass plays this year. I don't know. Point is you will almost never have a perfect oline. There will always be a weak link and the Ravens need to do a better job of managing that. So to get back to your original post, there is a reason so many fans place the blame on Joe and the OC. 

[Drew P]

7 minutes ago, The Beak said:

I am a diehard Ravens fan , but i don't know if i can stomach another year of harbaugh speak(such a wimp) morningwigs calls, or pees lack of guts, so what are we supposed to do , ug I feel like a browns fan, I hope i am wrong, feeling disgusted.....

Well he probably only has one more shot to make a run into the playoffs so sit tight at least through 2017.

[b93333]

1 hour ago, ryananth said:

Flacco's contract is not the problem. All teams have essentially the same money committed to their QBs (around $20 milliion). Flacco's deal averages $22mil a year. Even if there wasn't s a dead money issue we'd still pay Flacco what he's receiving. Would you rather have someone like Fitzpatrick for $14mil or Romo for $18mil? I don't think so. Who are you proposing would replace Joe anyway?

I guess you must have better information on Joe's contract than the Sunpapers.  In any event he can't be cut because of the dead money.  No team is likely to take him with his inflated contract... thus we are stuck with him.  My point is that his contract is a big problem when trying to put a winner on the field.  Relatively few players retain their competitive edge when they get mega-dollars... Joe is not one of them.

[merryjman]

It was tough seeing the offense this year. After promising not to mess with Kubiak's system, Trestman basically killed the zone run scheme that the O line had worked so hard to learn and master, and had Flacco go out of the shotgun many times. And let's face it: Justin Forsett was not that great a RB, he was just the latest in a series of mediocre backs who looked like pro bowlers behind Kubiak's run schemes! (how many times has Kube done this now?) And Flacco, despite all the legitimate excuses like inconsistent protection, slow receivers, etc. still had some pretty bad individual performances. It's clear more than ever that he is unable to read blitzes and make corrections at the line. (did he do an audible all year?) This doesn't make him a bad QB, but it does mean that the OC has to do a lot of work to get the right play out to him.

 

Agree that pass rush is a big need. Bisciotti said so last year, and he'll probably say it again this year if asked. I am very glad we got Ronnie, as I think he'll be a franchise player for us for a long time. And considering all the Bosa drama, I'm not sure he would have been the right pick. But we need an edge rusher badly.

 

Not sure whether receiver is a need, or whether it's a system issue. I think Pitta, Gilmore, Boyle, Perriman and Wallace (and grudgingly, maybe even Campanaro) make a good corps if we can get a consistent system going.

 

Ozzie always says he can never have enough cornerbacks. Smith is great when healthy and Tavon Young was a nice surprise, so I would hate to see us take a CB with the #16 pick because I'd imagine all the top CB talent would be gone by then.

[JD08]

How do they not have confidence in West and Dixon, they played well all season and made plays even with the few attempts they did get a game. West had nearly 800 yrds this season and only getting a average of 12 carries a game, Dixon also showed the playmaking ability and is tough to bring down. The backfield is fine when they actually the opportunity to produce, we have other issues on the team that need to be addressed, I'll be pissed if we spend a early draft pick on a RB in the draft

[billiejean]

  54 minutes ago, The Mom Gene said:

We had 7 different Offensive line configurations in 5 games due to injuries. Guys moved all over the place to fill in. Once Stanley came back the left side was fine.  Lewis never did make it back.  Zuttah had more penalties than anyone on the line also. And sacks allowed up the middle??? Those are missed blocks by the Center or RB. I'm just saying... Watch a Dallas game. Prescott has ALL DAY LONG. Br*dy does as well. Look at teams with good O-Lines, and you'll see better performance out of the running and passing game.

While I totally agree with what you are saying there is so much more that goes into how the oline performs than simply the linemen themselves. Many QB's do a better job helping out their oline by scrambling when needed, stepping up in the pocket and getting rid of the ball quickly. It's not like all of the teams that made the playoffs have great olines either. Another aspect of good oline play comes from the play calling. If the opposing team knows you pass 80% of the time they are going to come at you harder which really wears down those big linemen. Maybe thats why the OC's called so many short pass plays this year. I don't know. Point is you will almost never have a perfect oline. There will always be a weak link and the Ravens need to do a better job of managing that. So to get back to your original post, there is a reason so many fans place the blame on Joe and the OC. 

Joe does tend to get flustered under pressure but I think as the year went on he got a bit more comfortable (not much though). I totally agree with you about the play calling though, the line did have some issues, but the play calls were so predictable. When we give up on the run no one bites on play action and the lineman can pin their ears back. I read this a few months ago and I dont agree with everything it says but most of it rings true. Trigger Warning - its from the Steelers SB nation site

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/steelers-2016-preview-regular-season-news-updates-roster-depth-chart-salary-cap-tickets-baltimore-ravens-how-to-watch/2016/11/6/13538156/steelers-film-room-ravens-live-die-by-play-action-passes-preview-joe-flacco-steelers-secondary

[RavensDieHard21]

2 hours ago, b93333 said:

It's all well and good to consider saving a bit here and there on salary cap space but the real problem for the FO to deal with is Joe's cap hit. Per the Sun Papers it breaks down to 2017: 24.55 M cap hit with 47.3 M in dead money if cut after June 1, 2017. 2018: 24.75 M and 28.75 M, respectively, 2019: 26.5 M and 16 M. The cap hit continues to increase after 2019 but the dead money decreases. This for a QB rated 25th by PFF, (a little higher if you only consider the QBR).

Lmao lets just trade him to the Browns for two first round picks

[RavensDieHard21]

1 hour ago, The Mom Gene said:

We had 7 different Offensive line configurations in 5 games due to injuries. Guys moved all over the place to fill in. Once Stanley came back the left side was fine.  Lewis never did make it back.  Zuttah had more penalties than anyone on the line also. And sacks allowed up the middle??? Those are missed blocks by the Center or RB. I'm just saying... Watch a Dallas game. Prescott has ALL DAY LONG. Br*dy does as well. Look at teams with good O-Lines, and you'll see better performance out of the running and passing game.

Dallas had the best line and spent 3 first round picks on the line. Brady actually uses hard counts and switches up the tempo of he offense as well. Neither of them habitually allow the play clock to tick down to the final two seconds so the pass rushers can fly off he line.  

Both have coordinators that utilized running games, screens and quick throws to get the offense going as well. 

[RavensDieHard21]

27 minutes ago, merryjman said:

It was tough seeing the offense this year. After promising not to mess with Kubiak's system, Trestman basically killed the zone run scheme that the O line had worked so hard to learn and master, and had Flacco go out of the shotgun many times. And let's face it: Justin Forsett was not that great a RB, he was just the latest in a series of mediocre backs who looked like pro bowlers behind Kubiak's run schemes! (how many times has Kube done this now?) And Flacco, despite all the legitimate excuses like inconsistent protection, slow receivers, etc. still had some pretty bad individual performances. It's clear more than ever that he is unable to read blitzes and make corrections at the line. (did he do an audible all year?) This doesn't make him a bad QB, but it does mean that the OC has to do a lot of work to get the right play out to him.

 

Agree that pass rush is a big need. Bisciotti said so last year, and he'll probably say it again this year if asked. I am very glad we got Ronnie, as I think he'll be a franchise player for us for a long time. And considering all the Bosa drama, I'm not sure he would have been the right pick. But we need an edge rusher badly.

 

Not sure whether receiver is a need, or whether it's a system issue. I think Pitta, Gilmore, Boyle, Perriman and Wallace (and grudgingly, maybe even Campanaro) make a good corps if we can get a consistent system going.

 

Ozzie always says he can never have enough cornerbacks. Smith is great when healthy and Tavon Young was a nice surprise, so I would hate to see us take a CB with the #16 pick because I'd imagine all the top CB talent would be gone by then.

Pass rusher and corner is deep this year so many teams will adopt the "we will capitalize on the depth" later approach meaning they will pass on the position in the first to grab other areas of need. 

Realistically we need to take one of the two unless for some crazy reason mike Williams or Fournette make their way to us. 

With Garrett and Allen being long gone we hopefully land one of he following pass rushers; Williams from Bama, Harris from Missouri; Barnett from Tennessee; or, CB Sidney Jones from Washington or King from Iowa. I also like Wilson from Florida. 

 

[Drew P]

6 minutes ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

Pass rusher and corner is deep this year so many teams will adopt the "we will capitalize on the depth" later approach meaning they will pass on the position in the first to grab other areas of need. 

Realistically we need to take one of the two unless for some crazy reason mike Williams or Fournette make their way to us. 

With Garrett and Allen being long gone we hopefully land one of he following pass rushers; Williams from Bama, Harris from Missouri; Barnett from Tennessee; or, CB Sidney Jones from Washington or King from Iowa. I also like Wilson from Florida. 

 

Not attempting to go OT and turn this to draft central but did anyone see the game Solomon Thomas had against UNC? If he declares, get him and waive goodbye to Guy.

[leziRav]

  40 minutes ago, merryjman said:

It was tough seeing the offense this year. After promising not to mess with Kubiak's system, Trestman basically killed the zone run scheme that the O line had worked so hard to learn and master, and had Flacco go out of the shotgun many times. And let's face it: Justin Forsett was not that great a RB, he was just the latest in a series of mediocre backs who looked like pro bowlers behind Kubiak's run schemes! (how many times has Kube done this now?) And Flacco, despite all the legitimate excuses like inconsistent protection, slow receivers, etc. still had some pretty bad individual performances. It's clear more than ever that he is unable to read blitzes and make corrections at the line. (did he do an audible all year?) This doesn't make him a bad QB, but it does mean that the OC has to do a lot of work to get the right play out to him.

 

Agree that pass rush is a big need. Bisciotti said so last year, and he'll probably say it again this year if asked. I am very glad we got Ronnie, as I think he'll be a franchise player for us for a long time. And considering all the Bosa drama, I'm not sure he would have been the right pick. But we need an edge rusher badly.

 

Not sure whether receiver is a need, or whether it's a system issue. I think Pitta, Gilmore, Boyle, Perriman and Wallace (and grudgingly, maybe even Campanaro) make a good corps if we can get a consistent system going.

 

Ozzie always says he can never have enough cornerbacks. Smith is great when healthy and Tavon Young was a nice surprise, so I would hate to see us take a CB with the #16 pick because I'd imagine all the top CB talent would be gone by then.

Pass rusher and corner is deep this year so many teams will adopt the "we will capitalize on the depth" later approach meaning they will pass on the position in the first to grab other areas of need. 

Realistically we need to take one of the two unless for some crazy reason mike Williams or Fournette make their way to us. 

With Garrett and Allen being long gone we hopefully land one of he following pass rushers; Williams from Bama, Harris from Missouri; Barnett from Tennessee; or, CB Sidney Jones from Washington or King from Iowa. I also like Wilson from Florida. 

 

I agree, also maybe a top safety too like Mich Peppers or LSU Adams. A young elite safety added to Weddle should help our secondary issue too.

[Tdot.to.Bmore]

1. Doom needs to be released - because of his cap space and age
2. Webb must restructure or released
3. I dont think we can retain Brandon Williams. I would not throw a lot of money at him. He takes up space really well but when was the last time you saw him rush the passer effectively. We have Pierce to fill his role.
4. Pitta should be asked to restructure after all the loyalty this team showed him through his injuries. If he refuses then i think we keep him at the salary he is at. But i would ask anyways!
5. Watson should be released unfortunately and Wright needs to go after june 1st since the dead money is cut in half by then.

We need to make a splash in free agency for either a top CB or top Pass rusher.

We have a solid group of guys. We are a CB, Pass rusher and OL player away from making the leap back into the playoffs. And even if we get the pieces, this team wont succeed unless the coaches change up their philosophy.

[The Mom Gene]

50 minutes ago, billiejean said:

Joe does tend to get flustered under pressure but I think as the year went on he got a bit more comfortable (not much though). I totally agree with you about the play calling though, the line did have some issues, but the play calls were so predictable. When we give up on the run no one bites on play action and the lineman can pin their ears back. I read this a few months ago and I dont agree with everything it says but most of it rings true. Trigger Warning - its from the Steelers SB nation site

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/steelers-2016-preview-regular-season-news-updates-roster-depth-chart-salary-cap-tickets-baltimore-ravens-how-to-watch/2016/11/6/13538156/steelers-film-room-ravens-live-die-by-play-action-passes-preview-joe-flacco-steelers-secondary

While that all sounds great....  We had them until the very last play.  So, they deviated, or we did.

[The Mom Gene]

40 minutes ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

Dallas had the best line and spent 3 first round picks on the line. Brady actually uses hard counts and switches up the tempo of he offense as well. Neither of them habitually allow the play clock to tick down to the final two seconds so the pass rushers can fly off he line.  

Both have coordinators that utilized running games, screens and quick throws to get the offense going as well. 

And that's my point...  The reason I used the Patriots as an example, was because the first 4 games when Brady wasn't there....  Says more about the organization, the line, and the protection than it does the QB.

[Raven1995]

2 hours ago, ByTheBay said:

2 hours ago, The Mom Gene said:

Agreed also... everybody is quick to throw the QB and the OC under the bus, on every team. Go check out some of the other boards. Guys and Gals I see on here that are comparing others to ours aren't really seeing that even coordinators that are being mentioned as potential here are in the very same boat. It's really sad that people cannot see beyond that. Joe's lack of protection, and the ability to get time for the plays to develop is HUGE...

If the OL is the problem then what changes would be made? Stanley stays, Lewis stays, Yanda stays, Wagner could stay. Is Zuttah really the one to blame for all of Joe's issues? I read somewhere he actually graded out pretty well the second half if the season.

No not Zuttah alone but a big chunk of it. Injuries played a big part of it. I saw a play Sunday where Zuttah was blocking nobody and Ducasse had one player and he let him go by and sack Flacco. They were both just standing their with nobody around them. Lewis missed games, Stanley missed games and had 2 bad games after he came back. Yanda missed some games and Wagner missed some games. Jensen, Hurst and Urschel don't seem to be the answer. We need to Draft and get a couple good players and hope the Injuries go down next year. Also, a new Offensive Line Coach would be Great!

Edited January 3 by Raven1995

[b93333]

53 minutes ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

Lmao lets just trade him to the Browns for two first round picks

If only the Browns were that dumb...

[merryjman]

1 hour ago, billiejean said:

Joe does tend to get flustered under pressure but I think as the year went on he got a bit more comfortable (not much though). I totally agree with you about the play calling though, the line did have some issues, but the play calls were so predictable. When we give up on the run no one bites on play action and the lineman can pin their ears back. I read this a few months ago and I dont agree with everything it says but most of it rings true. Trigger Warning - its from the Steelers SB nation site

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/steelers-2016-preview-regular-season-news-updates-roster-depth-chart-salary-cap-tickets-baltimore-ravens-how-to-watch/2016/11/6/13538156/steelers-film-room-ravens-live-die-by-play-action-passes-preview-joe-flacco-steelers-secondary

I read that article after you linked it, and I gotta say it's very well written and right on the money. I know that it's usually not a good idea for coaches and staff to pay attention to the press, but I feel like if someone in the Ravens org had seen this, it would have been a good wakeup call that everyone knows what they're up to! What he said about running early in the drive, then striking on a big play action, then passing for short gains for the rest of the drive--- that explains perfectly why people complain about the Ravens not being able to finish a drive, and about abandoning the run!

[The Mom Gene]

15 minutes ago, b93333 said:

If only the Browns were that dumb...

Dude.... You're too funny.  Man, The Browns would give up just about anything to have a guy like that on their team. 

[The Mom Gene]

18 minutes ago, Raven1995 said:

No not Zuttah alone but a big chunk of it. Injuries played a big part of it. I saw a play Sunday where Zuttah was blocking nobody and Ducasse had one player and he let him go by and sack Flacco. They were both just standing their with nobody around them. Lewis missed games, Stanley missed games and had 2 bad games after he came back. Yanda missed some games and Wagner missed some games. Jensen, Hurst and Urschel don't seem to be the answer. We need to Draft and get a couple good players and hope the Injuries go down next year. Also, a new Offensive Line Coach would be Great!

Absolutely.

[merryjman]

21 minutes ago, Raven1995 said:

No not Zuttah alone but a big chunk of it. Injuries played a big part of it. I saw a play Sunday where Zuttah was blocking nobody and Ducasse had one player and he let him go by and sack Flacco. They were both just standing their with nobody around them. Lewis missed games, Stanley missed games and had 2 bad games after he came back. Yanda missed some games and Wagner missed some games. Jensen, Hurst and Urschel don't seem to be the answer. We need to Draft and get a couple good players and hope the Injuries go done next year. Also, a new Offensive Line Coach would be Great!

Zuttah has had a lot of ups and downs, and I wonder if there are some injury issues that he wasn't talking about, or maybe it's just that he had a rookie on his left (beginning of season) or a backup on his right (end of season) and that was contributing - those guys talk a lot about how they depend on each other very heavily, and of course he sure looked a lot better when it was KO on the left and MY on the right. It could be that he's just not that good, but I'm convinced he's done better than freaking Gradkowski did! (if Urschel was actually starter caliber we'd have seen it by now; as it is, he's a PR tool and not much more)

Might seem like a wasted pick, but I wouldn't complain if they took a high graded center for their 2nd or 3rd round draft choice. If we kept Wagner, and if Lewis and Stanley continued to improve in their 2nd year, and we have a coordinator who commits to the run, with a good center as the last puzzle piece our offense would be unstoppable.

I used to criticize Castillo but I'm not too proud to say I was wrong. I think he's done a good job with that line, especially in light of the injury bug that kept biting them.

[Crusader]

  1 hour ago, b93333 said:

If only the Browns were that dumb...

Dude.... You're too funny.  Man, The Browns would give up just about anything to have a guy like that on their team. 

Just remember the Browns have only one way to go and that's UP.

[billiejean]

  2 hours ago, billiejean said:

Joe does tend to get flustered under pressure but I think as the year went on he got a bit more comfortable (not much though). I totally agree with you about the play calling though, the line did have some issues, but the play calls were so predictable. When we give up on the run no one bites on play action and the lineman can pin their ears back. I read this a few months ago and I dont agree with everything it says but most of it rings true. Trigger Warning - its from the Steelers SB nation site

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/steelers-2016-preview-regular-season-news-updates-roster-depth-chart-salary-cap-tickets-baltimore-ravens-how-to-watch/2016/11/6/13538156/steelers-film-room-ravens-live-die-by-play-action-passes-preview-joe-flacco-steelers-secondary

While that all sounds great....  We had them until the very last play.  So, they deviated, or we did.

I am not entirely sure what you are trying to say. The article wasn't intended to be a play by play prediction of what the Ravens were going to run. They're just tendencies. But the part that does hold true is that we never gave up on the run, which opened up opportunities in the passing game. And in turn we were able to stay in it till the very end. Its not like the Steelers were going to use this article to predict our plays. The guy has no affiliation with the team and is basically a blogger. You have to also keep in mind that it was written in November. I just though there were some point that rang true.

[billiejean]

  1 hour ago, The Mom Gene said:

  1 hour ago, b93333 said:

If only the Browns were that dumb...

Dude.... You're too funny.  Man, The Browns would give up just about anything to have a guy like that on their team. 

Just remember the Browns have only one way to go and that's UP.

They do have the first pick which they could turn into more first round picks, with some seconds and thirds sprinkled in. Its a nice spot to be in.

[omar586]

it all comes down to the coaches next season, if they still have this stupid philosophy or mentality they had this season, than i can see harb losing his job next season, because what they tried to do this season was make us a pass happy team, which we failed and cost us game and playoff spot, i dont know what they gonna do to pees, but a change is needed their b/c we have been losing leads for years.