[News] Late For Work 1/2: Will Ravens Call Gary Kubiak After He Steps Down in Denver?

[sami]

I am not sure it was effort or that fact Bengals are just more talented than the guys we have and the coaching is better.

Harbs comment that "its only natural" to not put out a better effort is unacceptable. It contradicts everything he said going into the game.

Ravens played this game like they just wanted to pad stats. Flacco targeted Pitta 16 times, throwing the ball 49 times. Is he on an incentive contract because the problem all year was throwing the ball too much.

Harbs hire his friends
Joe throws to his buddy and can't read a defense (poor work ethic)
Pees plays if safe with a lead
OZ cant draft WR ,CB,S well

This team is a mess. They are lucky to be 8-8. They are a tip ball away from 7-9.

Anything less than many changes is unacceptable.

they are also a reach away from being 10-6 and in the playoffs.

[Minionhunter]

OK, so Kubiak has apparently made it clear that he's retiring from coaching in the NFL in general, not just from being a HC.

So, I guess we can put the idea/hope of luring him back, to sleep right here.

Not so sure about that. I would go with the same plan but run everything through Rick. Give Gary a light weight consultation job for a year - overall game planning the offensive direction and long term progression plan for both Joe and the offensive side of the ball. Make sure if he comes in that he stays sitting with Ozzie for the first year and only works part time with mandated minimum 4 days per week off. Give the reigns to Rick and make sure he brings in the same staff Gary had here especially the line coach and TE coach. And for the love of god lock Rick and he Joe in a room before the season starts and get them on the same page about chunk plays instead of waiting until half way through the year when Joe gets so fed up that he has his argument with the OC that chunk plays are needed. Yes, he even did this with Gary and the difference was that Gary actually listened and that is when the offense really started taking off.

Also please make sure we game plan really speedy two minute drills and for receivers to get beyond or at least to the sticks in 3rd downs. Please.

[Minionhunter]

  2 hours ago, mrc724 said:

there has to be more changes to the coaching staff. Why are the Ravens so enamored with Pees. The secondary coach didn't change the pitiful secondary. There are many player who have to be let go.

They are enamored by him cuz we had the #1-#5 defense thru out the year. Our secondary was much better than last years. Our biggest problem was our pass rush. Not so much the players but the way it was set up. We kept getting in each others way.

Yes but pees' defense stats are like fantasy football QB stats, they are garbage. It means nothing except fantasy unless you win the games. Even the super bowl his defense gives up leads late.

[ByTheBay]

2 hours ago, mrc724 said:

there has to be more changes to the coaching staff. Why are the Ravens so enamored with Pees. The secondary coach didn't change the pitiful secondary. There are many player who have to be let go.

Pees gets a LOT of flack from the fans but I think he does a pretty good job with what he has to work with. I could do with less of the prevent defense in the 4th but nobody's perfect. Think about how our defense outperformed this season. We have Jimmy who is great when healthy, weddle who is a welcome addition and young who surprised. After that the secondary is suspect. There were times when being a man short would have been better than having Wright in coverage. Orr and Mosley did a good job in the middle. Then we have a decent dline that got tired at the end of games and the season in general. Suggs played hurt, doom barely played at all leaving our pass rush up to Judon who has a very promising future. All of that and we still had a high ranked defense all year. I wish Dean Pees was more aggressive but you can only do so much with what you have. 

[Minionhunter]

I wish there was someone at the season concluding presser who would ask the followiong questions from Steve:

- Do you agree that what the Ravens showed this season was mostly mediocre?

- If you do: do you accept mediocrity on the long term - especially after one of the best off-seasons in team history, with a draft and free agency that might both go down as among the best in team history?

- If you don't accept mediocrity on the long term - how do you plan to stop it?

- What exactly do you see in coach Harbaugh that gives you hope that things will turn around, after such a promising season - a great roster with few injuries - was lost in such an unacceptable fashion?

- What gives you the reason to believe Harbaugh will somehow get the hang of how to spot a good OC? He had 5 OC'S, and four of them - Cam, Caldwell, Trestman and Mornhinweg - were obviously NOT good enough. And worse: the tendency is worrying: the last two ones were the worst by far. What makes you think this tendency won't continue? WHY wouldn't it continue if the same man is allowed to pick the next OC who picked the previous ones?

- Aren't you afraid that the Ravens are gonna lose more and more fans if the Ravens continue to be a team that's seldom fun to watch - even when they win?

- What's your stance on Flacco's performance in 2016?

- If you agree that it was easily his worst season ever, how do you plan to make him seem like a QB that actually wants to play and win - like he used to do?

- Do you think we, Ravens-fans deserved this seasson?

- Do you agree that it was shameful,. borderline insulting for Steve Smith to have to end his career like this?

And most importantly:

- What has to happen to convince you that Harbaugh is not what he used to be, anymore? That he's been wasting good, potentially successful seasons since the Super Bowl?

You see, I agree that continuity is a great asset and that it should never be underestimated. But it shouldn't be overvalued either. I'm afraid that insisting on prioritizing continuity will come at the price of prolonged mediocrity for the Baltimore Ravens. As the owner who finances all this mediocrity - is this really what you want? Is this what you're willing to settle for?

I expected better questions from you bio. These are all inflammatory gotya type questions that are more about getting your opinion across than getting serious answers. Seriously, you are better than this.

[billiejean]

  52 minutes ago, bioLarzen said:

OK, so Kubiak has apparently made it clear that he's retiring from coaching in the NFL in general, not just from being a HC.

So, I guess we can put the idea/hope of luring him back, to sleep right here.

Not so sure about that. I would go with the same plan but run everything through Rick. Give Gary a light weight consultation job for a year - overall game planning the offensive direction and long term progression plan for both Joe and the offensive side of the ball. Make sure if he comes in that he stays sitting with Ozzie for the first year and only works part time with mandated minimum 4 days per week off. Give the reigns to Rick and make sure he brings in the same staff Gary had here especially the line coach and TE coach. And for the love of god lock Rick and he Joe in a room before the season starts and get them on the same page about chunk plays instead of waiting until half way through the year when Joe gets so fed up that he has his argument with the OC that chunk plays are needed. Yes, he even did this with Gary and the difference was that Gary actually listened and that is when the offense really started taking off.

Also please make sure we game plan really speedy two minute drills and for receivers to get beyond or at least to the sticks in 3rd downs. Please.

Not so sure about that?? Do you have a direct line to someone in Kubs inner circle? This is crazy, a 2 year plan and a schedule for the guy. Why in the world would Gary agree to do that. This is a pipe dream. Its not like Gary has this secret formula that Rick doesn't know about. Getting all of the same positions coaches is pointless and probably not possible. Everything doesn't have to be exactly how it was when Gary was here. Even if we were able to get all of the guys that were here in 2012 it doesn't mean that we would be just as successful as we were then. Whoever the offensive coordinator is should be able to hire the guys that he wants to hire. Whether its Rick or someone else. And I am pretty sure about the fact that Kubiak is hanging up the whistle. While were at it we mine as well hire Marvin Lewis to be our DC and bring in all of his assistant coaches that were apart of the 2000 team.

[metalraven]

there has to be more changes to the coaching staff. Why are the Ravens so enamored with Pees. The secondary coach didn't change the pitiful secondary. There are many player who have to be let go.

Bull crap. This secondary is much improved. Also, they generated a lot of turnovers, which was a focal point for them in offseason. They definitely improved. However, they do need to get better, no doubt.

[metalraven]

  2 hours ago, bioLarzen said:

I wish there was someone at the season concluding presser who would ask the followiong questions from Steve:

- Do you agree that what the Ravens showed this season was mostly mediocre?

- If you do: do you accept mediocrity on the long term - especially after one of the best off-seasons in team history, with a draft and free agency that might both go down as among the best in team history?

- If you don't accept mediocrity on the long term - how do you plan to stop it?

- What exactly do you see in coach Harbaugh that gives you hope that things will turn around, after such a promising season - a great roster with few injuries - was lost in such an unacceptable fashion?

- What gives you the reason to believe Harbaugh will somehow get the hang of how to spot a good OC? He had 5 OC'S, and four of them - Cam, Caldwell, Trestman and Mornhinweg - were obviously NOT good enough. And worse: the tendency is worrying: the last two ones were the worst by far. What makes you think this tendency won't continue? WHY wouldn't it continue if the same man is allowed to pick the next OC who picked the previous ones?

- Aren't you afraid that the Ravens are gonna lose more and more fans if the Ravens continue to be a team that's seldom fun to watch - even when they win?

- What's your stance on Flacco's performance in 2016?

- If you agree that it was easily his worst season ever, how do you plan to make him seem like a QB that actually wants to play and win - like he used to do?

- Do you think we, Ravens-fans deserved this seasson?

- Do you agree that it was shameful,. borderline insulting for Steve Smith to have to end his career like this?

And most importantly:

- What has to happen to convince you that Harbaugh is not what he used to be, anymore? That he's been wasting good, potentially successful seasons since the Super Bowl?

You see, I agree that continuity is a great asset and that it should never be underestimated. But it shouldn't be overvalued either. I'm afraid that insisting on prioritizing continuity will come at the price of prolonged mediocrity for the Baltimore Ravens. As the owner who finances all this mediocrity - is this really what you want? Is this what you're willing to settle for?

I expected better questions from you bio. These are all inflammatory gotya type questions that are more about getting your opinion across than getting serious answers. Seriously, you are better than this.

That's what this board if for...Our opinions. Not like his questions wld be answered anyways

[metalraven]

  4 hours ago, mrc724 said:

there has to be more changes to the coaching staff. Why are the Ravens so enamored with Pees. The secondary coach didn't change the pitiful secondary. There are many player who have to be let go.

Bull crap. This secondary is much improved. Also, they generated a lot of turnovers, which was a focal point for them in offseason. They definitely improved. However, they do need to get better, no doubt.

Keep in mind, too, that we had no pass rush. No pass rush leaves even the best secondaries vulnerable.

[Minionhunter]

  1 hour ago, Minionhunter said:

  1 hour ago, bioLarzen said:

OK, so Kubiak has apparently made it clear that he's retiring from coaching in the NFL in general, not just from being a HC.

So, I guess we can put the idea/hope of luring him back, to sleep right here.

Not so sure about that. I would go with the same plan but run everything through Rick. Give Gary a light weight consultation job for a year - overall game planning the offensive direction and long term progression plan for both Joe and the offensive side of the ball. Make sure if he comes in that he stays sitting with Ozzie for the first year and only works part time with mandated minimum 4 days per week off. Give the reigns to Rick and make sure he brings in the same staff Gary had here especially the line coach and TE coach. And for the love of god lock Rick and he Joe in a room before the season starts and get them on the same page about chunk plays instead of waiting until half way through the year when Joe gets so fed up that he has his argument with the OC that chunk plays are needed. Yes, he even did this with Gary and the difference was that Gary actually listened and that is when the offense really started taking off.

Also please make sure we game plan really speedy two minute drills and for receivers to get beyond or at least to the sticks in 3rd downs. Please.

Not so sure about that?? Do you have a direct line to someone in Kubs inner circle? This is crazy, a 2 year plan and a schedule for the guy. Why in the world would Gary agree to do that. This is a pipe dream. Its not like Gary has this secret formula that Rick doesn't know about. Getting all of the same positions coaches is pointless and probably not possible. Everything doesn't have to be exactly how it was when Gary was here. Even if we were able to get all of the guys that were here in 2012 it doesn't mean that we would be just as successful as we were then. Whoever the offensive coordinator is should be able to hire the guys that he wants to hire. Whether its Rick or someone else. And I am pretty sure about the fact that Kubiak is hanging up the whistle. While were at it we mine as well hire Marvin Lewis to be our DC and bring in all of his assistant coaches that were apart of the 2000 team.

Because he said as much in his press conference. And part of why it went so well here was because of the extreme loyalty that Kubiak and his crew have for each of the and I see Rick doing something similar as what Gary did. Hell, the reason Gary even came here was because of Rick's loyalty to him. If Rick wanted to take over and run the show without Gary, fine, but I suspect he would want Gary involved. The schedule for Gary would be to protect him from himself by giving him a mandated year off that would allow for exceptions if he wanted to come back early while still maintaining the needed r&r.

The line to Kubiak inner circle is pretty transparent if you consider their behavior, decisions, actions and words over their career.

[BigUgly]

If we don't reach the playoffs in 2017, and show improvement on both sides of the ball in doing so, then Harbs will be gone and Ozzie may be asked to step down. Harbs can't afford to botch his next OC hire, and may have to look outside his circle of coaching buds to find the best candidate. Ozzie has to nail free agency and the draft to find playmakers, even if it means trading the picks he loves to hoard in order to do so.

[Purple Dawg 96]

A whole off season of "UNNECESSARY FINGER POINTING" when it's the QB killing this team! To those that say Ozzie needs to step down KICK ROCKS!

[RavenManiac#7]

Need a new HC, OC, DC.

[Purple Dawg 96]

Harbs is our coach he isn't the one throwing INTs and under and over throwing WRs etc!
This team has the weaponry QB was and is suspect period point blank! THIS CANNOT BE HAPPENING! SMH

[bioLarzen]

Harbs is our coach he isn't the one throwing INTs and under and over throwing WRs etc!
This team has the weaponry QB was and is suspect period point blank! THIS CANNOT BE HAPPENING! SMH

By that logic no coach should ever be fired - as they aren't the ones losing on the field.

[RavenManiac#7]

Need better players too. Center, pass rushers, secondary, wr, Wagner re-signing?, OL depth. I know it's a lot. It'll take more than one off season. Starts with coaching staff, though, and some attention to the FO and drafting.

[bioLarzen]

A whole off season of "UNNECESSARY FINGER POINTING" when it's the QB killing this team! To those that say Ozzie needs to step down KICK ROCKS!

Please, tell us how Flacco is to blame for the D allowing 4 game winning drives to the opponents... If 2 of those don't happen, we'd be in the playoffs now.

[jsarrocohome@yahoo.com]

  4 hours ago, mrc724 said:

there has to be more changes to the coaching staff. Why are the Ravens so enamored with Pees. The secondary coach didn't change the pitiful secondary. There are many player who have to be let go.

Pees gets a LOT of flack from the fans but I think he does a pretty good job with what he has to work with. I could do with less of the prevent defense in the 4th but nobody's perfect. Think about how our defense outperformed this season. We have Jimmy who is great when healthy, weddle who is a welcome addition and young who surprised. After that the secondary is suspect. There were times when being a man short would have been better than having Wright in coverage. Orr and Mosley did a good job in the middle. Then we have a decent dline that got tired at the end of games and the season in general. Suggs played hurt, doom barely played at all leaving our pass rush up to Judon who has a very promising future. All of that and we still had a high ranked defense all year. I wish Dean Pees was more aggressive but you can only do so much with what you have. 

pees is not a good DC

[bioLarzen]

1 hour ago, Minionhunter said:

3 hours ago, bioLarzen said:

I wish there was someone at the season concluding presser who would ask the followiong questions from Steve:

- Do you agree that what the Ravens showed this season was mostly mediocre?

- If you do: do you accept mediocrity on the long term - especially after one of the best off-seasons in team history, with a draft and free agency that might both go down as among the best in team history?

- If you don't accept mediocrity on the long term - how do you plan to stop it?

- What exactly do you see in coach Harbaugh that gives you hope that things will turn around, after such a promising season - a great roster with few injuries - was lost in such an unacceptable fashion?

- What gives you the reason to believe Harbaugh will somehow get the hang of how to spot a good OC? He had 5 OC'S, and four of them - Cam, Caldwell, Trestman and Mornhinweg - were obviously NOT good enough. And worse: the tendency is worrying: the last two ones were the worst by far. What makes you think this tendency won't continue? WHY wouldn't it continue if the same man is allowed to pick the next OC who picked the previous ones?

- Aren't you afraid that the Ravens are gonna lose more and more fans if the Ravens continue to be a team that's seldom fun to watch - even when they win?

- What's your stance on Flacco's performance in 2016?

- If you agree that it was easily his worst season ever, how do you plan to make him seem like a QB that actually wants to play and win - like he used to do?

- Do you think we, Ravens-fans deserved this seasson?

- Do you agree that it was shameful,. borderline insulting for Steve Smith to have to end his career like this?

And most importantly:

- What has to happen to convince you that Harbaugh is not what he used to be, anymore? That he's been wasting good, potentially successful seasons since the Super Bowl?

You see, I agree that continuity is a great asset and that it should never be underestimated. But it shouldn't be overvalued either. I'm afraid that insisting on prioritizing continuity will come at the price of prolonged mediocrity for the Baltimore Ravens. As the owner who finances all this mediocrity - is this really what you want? Is this what you're willing to settle for?

I expected better questions from you bio. These are all inflammatory gotya type questions that are more about getting your opinion across than getting serious answers. Seriously, you are better than this.

I would still like to hear his answers, because those would tell us a lot about what we can expect in the future.

Also, since I'm a simple fan not invited to the presser, it hardly matters how appropriate my questions are, doesn't it

Edited January 2 by bioLarzen

[ByTheBay]

1 minute ago, Purple Dawg 96 said:

Harbs is our coach he isn't the one throwing INTs and under and over throwing WRs etc!
This team has the weaponry QB was and is suspect period point blank! THIS CANNOT BE HAPPENING! SMH

Problem is what can we do about it? Joe just signed an extension last year and I believe we cant really release him and not take a huge cap hit until 2018 at the earliest. This isn't a slight against you but I think we all need to stop complaining about Flacco because he isnt going anywhere and start discussing possible solutions to how to best help him succeed.  One way is to find him a proven QB coach. Judging by his regressing mechanics like throwing off his back foot, Marty M did a terrible job. Norv Turner would be a good start at OC, Dennison did a good job when he was here as did Zorn. 9 years in he shouldn't need his hand held but he does so let's hold it. 

[ByTheBay]

1 hour ago, sami said:

they are also a reach away from being 10-6 and in the playoffs.

Game of inches 

Isnt that part of why we all love it so much?

Edited January 2 by ByTheBay
Hi

[BigUgly]

For all those thinking about cutting Joe loose any time soon, think again. We achieve no cap savings by doing so until 2019, where we gain $10M but incur a whopping $16M in dead money by doing so. In 2020, we save $20M with $8M in dead money.

The only real answer is to find an offensive scheme that fits Joe, give him positional coaching that corrects his recurring mechanics issues, and provide him with a much better line, especially up the middle.

[steelcityraven]

  1 hour ago, Minionhunter said:

  3 hours ago, bioLarzen said:

I wish there was someone at the season concluding presser who would ask the followiong questions from Steve:

- Do you agree that what the Ravens showed this season was mostly mediocre?

- If you do: do you accept mediocrity on the long term - especially after one of the best off-seasons in team history, with a draft and free agency that might both go down as among the best in team history?

- If you don't accept mediocrity on the long term - how do you plan to stop it?

- What exactly do you see in coach Harbaugh that gives you hope that things will turn around, after such a promising season - a great roster with few injuries - was lost in such an unacceptable fashion?

- What gives you the reason to believe Harbaugh will somehow get the hang of how to spot a good OC? He had 5 OC'S, and four of them - Cam, Caldwell, Trestman and Mornhinweg - were obviously NOT good enough. And worse: the tendency is worrying: the last two ones were the worst by far. What makes you think this tendency won't continue? WHY wouldn't it continue if the same man is allowed to pick the next OC who picked the previous ones?

- Aren't you afraid that the Ravens are gonna lose more and more fans if the Ravens continue to be a team that's seldom fun to watch - even when they win?

- What's your stance on Flacco's performance in 2016?

- If you agree that it was easily his worst season ever, how do you plan to make him seem like a QB that actually wants to play and win - like he used to do?

- Do you think we, Ravens-fans deserved this seasson?

- Do you agree that it was shameful,. borderline insulting for Steve Smith to have to end his career like this?

And most importantly:

- What has to happen to convince you that Harbaugh is not what he used to be, anymore? That he's been wasting good, potentially successful seasons since the Super Bowl?

You see, I agree that continuity is a great asset and that it should never be underestimated. But it shouldn't be overvalued either. I'm afraid that insisting on prioritizing continuity will come at the price of prolonged mediocrity for the Baltimore Ravens. As the owner who finances all this mediocrity - is this really what you want? Is this what you're willing to settle for?

I expected better questions from you bio. These are all inflammatory gotya type questions that are more about getting your opinion across than getting serious answers. Seriously, you are better than this.

I would still like to hear his answers, because those would tell us a lot about what we can expect in the future.

Also, since I'm a simple fan not invited to the presser, it hardly matters how appropriate my questions are, doesn't it

TBH.... I think all we need to do is look at Mr. Biscotti's track record and we will see that he is not okay with mediocrity. What track record?

1. He has always been very active in finding FAs through the years who can and did help this team (SSS, Weddle, Zuttah, Watson, and so many more - some who have worked out and some who have not) but Steve is not afraid to spend money to improve this organization.

We typically sit right at the cap limit and not all teams can say that.

2. Mr. Biscotti is not afraid to go out and spend money to improve facilities. We had an injury problem last year and in an effort to put a better product on the field and keep our players out there he pulled the turf and put sod / grass down and upgraded instantly.

3. He is not afraid to spend money on coaches.... Coaches like Leslie Frasier and others who could go anywhere... he spends the money to bring them in. Kubiack was very instrumental in our super bowl run and it cost us to bring him in.. but he did... this is the type of owner that we have.

4. He, like any smart owner of a company, has a say but he also allows the experts (Ozzie, Decosta and staff) to make expert calls and he has not allowed his ego to get in the way like the Jerry Jones and Al Davis's of the world and I as a fan am thankful for that.

5. Harbs has proven that he can lead us to the Lombardi trophy and that he can producers winners. We know that with the right help around him.. Harbs has what it takes to get us there. Harbs biggest problem is that he has always been too loyal to his friends (assistant coaches). If Steve were to assert his influence... I wish it would be in this area... forcing Johns hand to let go of The Dean Pees, Cams, and Trestmans sooner and seek the opinion of Ozzie and others around the league to find suitable replacements to work within Johns system (not excluding Johns opinion).

No body could convince me that Mr. Biscotti is not committed to winning. I think we are lucky to have that type of owner and BTW he is a class act. Could he be more hands on? Yes but I am glad that he realizes his strengths and weaknesses and leaves the Xs and Os stuff to the football experts.

The system isn't completely broken (like the Browns, 49ers or Chargers)... it is a proven system who has some components that are clogging up the entire process. Some parts needs swapped out to ensure the system is working efficiently and properly (and it has not been) is all it needs. You don't overhaul the entire system bc a few parts failed. You change those parts and get the system humming again.

[steelcityraven]

  2 hours ago, sami said:

they are also a reach away from being 10-6 and in the playoffs.

Game of inches 

Isnt that part of why we all love it so much?

9-7 at least

[steelcityraven]

  5 hours ago, mrc724 said:

there has to be more changes to the coaching staff. Why are the Ravens so enamored with Pees. The secondary coach didn't change the pitiful secondary. There are many player who have to be let go.

They are enamored by him cuz we had the #1-#5 defense thru out the year. Our secondary was much better than last years. Our biggest problem was our pass rush. Not so much the players but the way it was set up. We kept getting in each others way.

Exactly our problem since Pees got here has been scheme. He wants 11 Pro Bowlers. That just don't happen and Pees needs to stop making excuses.

We have CJ who made the Pro Bowl
Weddle who should have (and will probably be a late addition)
Brandon Williams (who may be the best at his position)
M Pierce.. (who played at a very high level this year
TJernigan (who also deserved pro bowl consideration.
Z. Orr... who played as well as any ILB this year including CJ
Jimmy Smith... who is a top 5 CB when healthy
Suggs....who still remained dangerous.

That is 8 of our 11 defense starters... who played at or close to pro bowl level this year

In addition he has
Elvis... who was not healthy but when he is... he is a dangerous pass rusher.

Judon....who showed a lot of promise.

Tavon Young... who was very impressive as a rookie and could be on the list above.

B Urban... who played very well in spots

L Guy who saw his numbers decrease bc of how good MPierce played but Guy is solid.

(in my opinion the only players on Defense who struggled consistently was LWebb, SWright, Elam, Powers, Elvis, and McClellan)

You can match that up with Seattle, Arizona, or any of the top Defenses around the league and person for person we are more talented and deeper then most. Yet we cannot depend on our Defense to close any team out since Pees got here / and no lead is safe in the 4th quarter. NONE! (you can not have 11 pro bowlers... but that seems to be what dean pees is asking for to be successful)! SMH

[FloridalovesRavens]

If it makes everyone feel better just blame everything on Joe. After all he does play every position doesn't he. Hopefully our fans can get their act together before training camp and stop the griping. Go Ravens.

[steelcityraven]

  2 hours ago, sami said:

they are also a reach away from being 10-6 and in the playoffs.

Game of inches 

Isnt that part of why we all love it so much?

yes but if you win most of those close games by a few inches -you are one of the top teams, if you lose most of those games by an inch or so... you are one of the worst teams and if you win some and lose some of those razor close games you are a mediocre 8-8.

We have won some of those close games by an inch and lost some by an inch - we are mediocre.

The good teams find a way to win those razor close games and get that extra inch or two.

We are inconsistent at best (Offensively and even worse on defense).

[Johnny-U]

It's all Joe's fault? Sure, like Joe didn't lead a comeback drive to take the lead with mere minutes (or less) on the clock, and our defense couldn't make a stop - NOT. Joe did more than enough to win against Pittsburgh, Giants, and Redskins, and that's just off the top of my head. Does Joe need to play better, faster, smarter? YES. But on a position-by-position basis, we have greater needs at D-line, pass rushing, inside linebackers (who often can't get off blocks and can't cover), cornerbacks, safeties, center, receivers, returners, and probably even tight end (Pitta may be a really good big receiver, but his blocking SUCKS).

[Johnny-U]

For all those thinking about cutting Joe loose any time soon, think again. We achieve no cap savings by doing so until 2019, where we gain $10M but incur a whopping $16M in dead money by doing so. In 2020, we save $20M with $8M in dead money.

The only real answer is to find an offensive scheme that fits Joe, give him positional coaching that corrects his recurring mechanics issues, and provide him with a much better line, especially up the middle.

Best way to help Joe (or ANY quarterback) is to improve the line, find receivers who can get open and will ATTACK the ball.

[Johnny-U]

Need a new HC, OC, DC.

I agree, that way we can become more like the Browns......