Next Up: Ravens Free Agents--Who goes? Who stays?

[jazz1988]

4 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

First inclination that Lewis might not actually stay at LG today.  Harbaugh said they'd like to keep him at LG but he's a wildcard who could end up competing at RT or C as well.

Makes sense but interesting that he said center as well. 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

14 minutes ago, jazz1988 said:

Makes sense but interesting that he said center as well. 

I like it. Dont see him at C, but i dont think they want to pigeon hole themselves into having to find a C and RT. They just want to find the best possible OL and then fit them in the best way.

So if a stud G falls to us in the draft, you dont want to not pick him bc youre stuck on Lewis playing LG. If hes an improvement over Lewis, and Lewis is an improvement at RT over anyone else on the roster then we absolutely should do that.

Get talented OL here. Thats all that matters. Then figure out what combo gives us our best 5.

 

Shoot -- if it means Yanda kicking out to RT id be ok with that so long as him doing so give us a much stronger OL unit.

Edited March 28 by BOLDnPurPnBlacK

[The Raven]

29 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

First inclination that Lewis might not actually stay at LG today.  Harbaugh said they'd like to keep him at LG but he's a wildcard who could end up competing at RT or C as well.

Just saw that too. Not sure how this works out. Think we'll probably just draft the best OL available and then line up the best five when the season starts. If the best is a LG, Alex is RT, and if the best is RT, Alex is LG.

Harbs also said Taliaferro and Boyle are options at fullback. I don't mean to brag but I have said in the past that Taliaferro could find a roster spot because of his capability as a fullback. He's a decent receiving back, and he's hefty. He can pass block, too. To me, he matches the description of a new age fullback. Not sure if he'll be a great blocker at fullback but he's got the size and strength to do it imo.

Boyle has gotten fullback snaps but I think he may be too slow and too tall to be a modern fullback. Good option though, and he fills multiple roles. Makes a lot of sense to use him as a fullback. Versatility could be what wins him the job.

Edited March 28 by The Raven

[jazz1988]

2 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

I like it. Dont see him at C, but i dont think they want to pigeon hole themselves into having to find a C and RT. They just want to find the best possible OL and then fit them in the best way.

So if a stud G falls to us in the draft, you dont want to not pick him bc youre stuck on Lewis playing LG. If hes an improvement over Lewis, and Lewis is an improvement at RT over anyone else on the roster then we absolutely should do that.

Get talented OL here. Thats all that matters. Then figure out what combo gives us our best 5.

 

Shoot -- if it means Yanda kicking out to RT id be ok with that so long as him doing so give us a much stronger OL unit.

 

I wouldn't be surprise to see The Ravens draft a RT and a guard but I honestly like to see Lewis at right tackle than left guard.

Edited March 28 by jazz1988

[rmw10]

36 minutes ago, The Raven said:

Just saw that too. Not sure how this works out. Think we'll probably just draft the best OL available and then line up the best five when the season starts. If the best is a LG, Alex is RT, and if the best is RT, Alex is LG.

Harbs also said Taliaferro and Boyle are options at fullback. I don't mean to brag but I have said in the past that Taliaferro could find a roster spot because of his capability as a fullback. He's a decent receiving back, and he's hefty. He can pass block, too. To me, he matches the description of a new age fullback. Not sure if he'll be a great blocker at fullback but he's got the size and strength to do it imo.

Boyle has gotten fullback snaps but I think he may be too slow and too tall to be a modern fullback. Good option though, and he fills multiple roles. Makes a lot of sense to use him as a fullback. Versatility could be what wins him the job.

Agreed on the fullback approach.  I don't think either would be a true lead blocker type but they could easily function in that role.

[terrynjulia03]

I'm hoping a guy like Dawkins slides to us in the 2nd, may have to move up to get him but he's a protypical LG. One thing is for certain, were gonna draft a OL maybe even 2 in the first 4 rounds. 

[Ravens4Real]

It sucks that this isn't one of the years where the Ravens had a bunch more draft picks than usual because it truly seems like we need them. 

We need: 2-3 Olineman, 1-2 OLB, 1-2 WR, 1 CB and 1 ILB. We are going to have to work magic with our 7 picks.

[Underdogsontop!]

3 hours ago, terrynjulia03 said:

I'm hoping a guy like Dawkins slides to us in the 2nd, may have to move up to get him but he's a protypical LG. One thing is for certain, were gonna draft a OL maybe even 2 in the first 4 rounds. 

I like Dawkins and I think he might be there at 48 but I also like Dan freeny and pat eflien who both been dropping some. I also like Dorian Johnson as a guard. I've seen somewhere that Ethan pocic would be a nice fit a gaurd instead of center. Guess there's a lot of decent options out there. Just got to wait and see

Edited March 28 by Underdogsontop!

[rossihunter2]

14 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

He makes at least $6m no matter what. 

If another team pays him $2m the Jets still owe him $4m. Only way Jets don't pay him something is if another team offers him at least $6m. 

So that won't impact if he plays or not. Just a matter if he wants to play for $6m or sit at home and make that. 

I'm pretty confident the contract is voided if he goes to another team because of the offset language - even if you are right though - he'd essentially be playing football for "free" and I don't see that sort of motivation from him... why would he take a 2mill per year contract just to get more money/the same money lying on a beach? 

[rossihunter2]

9 hours ago, jazz1988 said:

 

I wouldn't be surprise to see The Ravens draft a RT and a guard but I honestly like to see Lewis at right tackle than left guard.

The positive of this situation for me would be that we have found a great guard - so good that Lewis just had to be moved out to tackle

[rossihunter2]

8 hours ago, rmw10 said:

Agreed on the fullback approach.  I don't think either would be a true lead blocker type but they could easily function in that role.

Fullback isn't really a full time role in the NFL anyway - a combo could work just as effectively given they both have good hands and decent run blocking ability (Boyle particularly)

[rossihunter2]

7 hours ago, terrynjulia03 said:

I'm hoping a guy like Dawkins slides to us in the 2nd, may have to move up to get him but he's a protypical LG. One thing is for certain, were gonna draft a OL maybe even 2 in the first 4 rounds. 

I feel pretty confident Dawkins will be available at our 2nd pick - not sure he'll be the BPA though - especially if he's not projecting as a tackle

i dont think it's certain we're drafting 2ol in the first 4 rounds by any means - especially because of their weakness both in top end quality and depth throughout this class - I think it's more likely we don't draft a lineman at all than we draft 2 in the first 4 rounds

[rossihunter2]

7 hours ago, Ravens4Real said:

It sucks that this isn't one of the years where the Ravens had a bunch more draft picks than usual because it truly seems like we need them. 

We need: 2-3 Olineman, 1-2 OLB, 1-2 WR, 1 CB and 1 ILB. We are going to have to work magic with our 7 picks.

It's sad because of the quality and depth in this class - but we got a great haul last year in a weaker class so who knows really... 7 picks is enough if you nail them anyhow

[rossihunter2]

4 hours ago, Underdogsontop! said:

I like Dawkins and I think he might be there at 48 but I also like Dan freeny and pat eflien who both been dropping some. I also like Dorian Johnson as a guard. I've seen somewhere that Ethan pocic would be a nice fit a gaurd instead of center. Guess there's a lot of decent options out there. Just got to wait and see

The 2nd round for me is the round where I don't see much value on the offensive line other than feeney if he drops or elflein - I see much better value for our picks in every other round including the first

[Underdogsontop!]

1 hour ago, rossihunter2 said:

The 2nd round for me is the round where I don't see much value on the offensive line other than feeney if he drops or elflein - I see much better value for our picks in every other round including the first

I feel the complete opposite. I feel the O line class is kind of weak and that some of the 1st round talent would have a hard time being in the 1st round in most of the past years. So I think if some of them slide to the 2nd is where their value would be good. That's just me. I also feel that our FO has their eyes on couple O line guys that could slide or some sleepers in the mid rounds. Mainly because our FO always finds talent in the mid rounds. 

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

12 hours ago, rmw10 said:

First inclination that Lewis might not actually stay at LG today.  Harbaugh said they'd like to keep him at LG but he's a wildcard who could end up competing at RT or C as well.

....

At RT I approve. I think he'd be a very good at RT, and he'd fare better there. He's got the tools to succeed there.

 

Anywhere on the interior is a move I disagree with. I don't want someone tall playing center, seems like a terrible idea, and I didn't like him at LG.

[Jonah DeVito]

12 hours ago, The Raven said:

Just saw that too. Not sure how this works out. Think we'll probably just draft the best OL available and then line up the best five when the season starts. If the best is a LG, Alex is RT, and if the best is RT, Alex is LG.

Harbs also said Taliaferro and Boyle are options at fullback. I don't mean to brag but I have said in the past that Taliaferro could find a roster spot because of his capability as a fullback. He's a decent receiving back, and he's hefty. He can pass block, too. To me, he matches the description of a new age fullback. Not sure if he'll be a great blocker at fullback but he's got the size and strength to do it imo.

Boyle has gotten fullback snaps but I think he may be too slow and too tall to be a modern fullback. Good option though, and he fills multiple roles. Makes a lot of sense to use him as a fullback. Versatility could be what wins him the job.

I think Tali at FB is an interesting thought. I mean I think the talent is definitely there for him to make the roster either way, but he's a guy who's really been plagued with injuries so it's hard for us to rely on him as a FB. 

[The Raven]

7 hours ago, Jonah DeVito said:

I think Tali at FB is an interesting thought. I mean I think the talent is definitely there for him to make the roster either way, but he's a guy who's really been plagued with injuries so it's hard for us to rely on him as a FB. 

That's the other thing, for sure. The injuries.

I could see Tali as a Mike Tolbert type fullback if he stays healthy.

[rmw10]

Since it sounds like the team is done until the draft, I can honestly say that I'm a little confused on the direction of this team.  I know the draft is still yet to happen but I don't really see the plan here.  Are we retooling or are we going for it?

The same holes still exist as they have for years now - WR, OL, OLB, and CB.  We made an attempt at filling CB in Carr but that's clearly a 1-2 year stopgap and nothing more.

We opted to spend our money on positions that weren't really needs.  Tony Jefferson is obviously the big get.  I can't complain about this one since he's young and a clear signing for the future, but I still find it interesting how much we spent on him when we at least had a viable option already on the roster in Webb, even if it was short term.  Woodhead wasn't expensive, but still interesting that we chose to invest there when you have a bevy of RBs in the draft.  I love Williams but his re-signing still confuses me in the grand scheme of things.  I like getting him back but I still question whether it was the best use of money considering none of our holes have been filled, and you had a guy that maybe you had to rely on stepping up.

Furthermore, we've opted to keep all 87 of our tight ends for the time being.  I know we have a young group but I see no point in having both Pitta and Watson on the roster when that cap could probably be better used, but I guess there's still time for that to happen.

Overall, I guess I'm just failing to see the direction.  We invested in a few stopgaps and a few younger players, but still have the same holes.  Is that a team that can compete?

[The Raven]

1 hour ago, rmw10 said:

Overall, I guess I'm just failing to see the direction.  We invested in a few stopgaps and a few younger players, but still have the same holes.  Is that a team that can compete?

I don't see the direction either, but at the same time, I do think this is a team that can compete. We competed last year until injuries caught up with us.

Jefferson and Carr are guys that improve things we didn't do well last year: tackling and pressing. We didn't tackle well in the secondary and our corners (not blaming Pees for this) gave receivers too much space to work with. Those, to me, were the biggest problems we faced. We gave receivers too much space and we failed to tackle, and that's why we gave up so many third down conversions. We basically let them have the easy stuff. 

I'm actually seeing a clear defensive direction, as I flesh this out. The plan I see Ozzie making is going to help get the 

We retained Brandon Williams and got Jefferson -- both moves that will improve the run defense. A good run defense will put us in more third and longs on defense. We got Carr, who plays closer to the line, and we got Jefferson, who makes tackles.

By taking away the easy stuff, I think we'll force more punts. Dean Pees's defense works when you do the little things right -- chasing and tackling. So, I see this as a clear direction.

The offense, on the other hand, remains directionless and without an identity. 

Edited March 29 by The Raven

[rmw10]

2 minutes ago, The Raven said:

I don't see the direction either, but at the same time, I do think this is a team that can compete. We competed last year until injuries caught up with us.

Jefferson and Carr are guys that improve things we didn't do well last year: tackling and pressing. We didn't tackle well in the secondary and our corners (not blaming Pees for this) gave receivers too much space to work with. Those, to me, were the biggest problems we faced. We gave receivers too much space and we failed to tackle, and that's why we gave up so many third down conversions. We basically let them have the easy stuff. 

I'm actually seeing a clear defensive direction, as I flesh this out. The plan I see Ozzie making is going to help get the 

We retained Brandon Williams and got Jefferson -- both moves that will improve the run defense. A good run defense will put us in more third and longs on defense. We got Carr, who plays closer to the line, and we got Jefferson, who makes tackles.

By taking away the easy stuff, I think we'll force more punts. Dean Pees's defense works when you do the little things right -- chasing and tackling. So, I see this as a clear direction.

The offense, on the other hand, remains directionless and without an identity. 

I didn't expand this much of course, but I agree on the offense vs. defense identity.  Defense came together how I expected in a way, although Jefferson was a surprise but that was more a swapping of parts with Webb.  I always expected a pass rusher to be drafted rather than signed, and I hope the same holds true with CB.

The offense though... I just don't see it right now.  0 help for Flacco.

[The Raven]

Just now, rmw10 said:

I didn't expand this much of course, but I agree on the offense vs. defense identity.  Defense came together how I expected in a way, although Jefferson was a surprise but that was more a swapping of parts with Webb.  I always expected a pass rusher to be drafted rather than signed, and I hope the same holds true with CB.

The offense though... I just don't see it right now.  0 help for Flacco.

And the tight end situation? I don't get it at all. Please cut the dead weight. Receiver? Please sign somebody that can run a damn in route and catch a third down ball over the middle because I don't think that person's on the roster. Oline? What are we waiting for?

I am simply amazed we got yet another starting caliber running back before addressing any other offensive need. Here's hoping to a good draft where we hit on every pick -- because that's what we need to happen if we don't make any other free agency moves.

[trevorsteadman]

6 minutes ago, The Raven said:

I don't see the direction either, but at the same time, I do think this is a team that can compete. We competed last year until injuries caught up with us.

Jefferson and Carr are guys that improve things we didn't do well last year: tackling and pressing. We didn't tackle well in the secondary and our corners (not blaming Pees for this) gave receivers too much space to work with. Those, to me, were the biggest problems we faced. We gave receivers too much space and we failed to tackle, and that's why we gave up so many third down conversions. We basically let them have the easy stuff. 

I'm actually seeing a clear defensive direction, as I flesh this out. The plan I see Ozzie making is going to help get the 

We retained Brandon Williams and got Jefferson -- both moves that will improve the run defense. A good run defense will put us in more third and longs on defense. We got Carr, who plays closer to the line, and we got Jefferson, who makes tackles.

By taking away the easy stuff, I think we'll force more punts. Dean Pees's defense works when you do the little things right -- chasing and tackling. So, I see this as a clear direction.

The offense, on the other hand, remains directionless and without an identity. 

To be honest I bet there are some deals already on the table right now with some players that aren't being leaked because they are to be kept secret. Second wave of free agency is in June and I bet this team signs two or three of those players like an Anquan Boldin after June so it does not affect the comp pick formula for the team. The Ravens are likely to get a 3rd or 4th for Wagner next year.

[rmw10]

1 minute ago, The Raven said:

And the tight end situation? I don't get it at all. Please cut the dead weight. Receiver? Please sign somebody that can run a damn in route and catch a third down ball over the middle because I don't think that person's on the roster. Oline? What are we waiting for?

I am simply amazed we got yet another starting caliber running back before addressing any other offensive need. Here's hoping to a good draft where we hit on every pick -- because that's what we need to happen if we don't make any other free agency moves.

TE baffles me.  I can understand keeping one of Pitta or Watson for a competition, but both?  Let the young guys roll.  The decision to keep Pitta irks me to no end.  I've maintained my stance that they've been way too loyal to him.  It's great that he's Joe's best friend and worked his way back from terrible injuries, but I don't really see how he helps this team.

It'll be interesting to see though.  I just don't see any offensive identity outside of the checkdown and it's been that way for a very long time.

[trevorsteadman]

12 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

TE baffles me.  I can understand keeping one of Pitta or Watson for a competition, but both?  Let the young guys roll.  The decision to keep Pitta irks me to no end.  I've maintained my stance that they've been way too loyal to him.  It's great that he's Joe's best friend and worked his way back from terrible injuries, but I don't really see how he helps this team.

It'll be interesting to see though.  I just don't see any offensive identity outside of the checkdown and it's been that way for a very long time.

I would be surprised if Watson is on the roster going into the season. Likely will keep him on the roster until OTA's and training camps just in case an injury happens

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

9 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

I didn't expand this much of course, but I agree on the offense vs. defense identity.  Defense came together how I expected in a way, although Jefferson was a surprise but that was more a swapping of parts with Webb.  I always expected a pass rusher to be drafted rather than signed, and I hope the same holds true with CB.

The offense though... I just don't see it right now.  0 help for Flacco.

I think the plan is to build the OL through the draft, to have a young core group that can be together for a while.

With that and the coaching additions, they want to build a controlling run game which will help sustain drives, keep Joe in more 3rd and shorts, and keep the score down in games. The big # of TEs on the roster could support this, giving us the flexibility to have multiple TE sets that we can run out of effectively, but also consistently convert the 2nd and 5 or 6 and the 3rd and 3's.

And with that consistent run game, short TE passing game it should set up several PA deep shots to our burners on the outside. So, control the ball, grind out drives, and make sure we're getting at least 3 pts on drives.... and also give us a good chance to have 2-3 big explosive plays per game. Really fits the personnel in terms of the skill position players we have.

 

Im guessing the plan has always been in their mind to build the OL in the draft.... not paying the huge figures guys are getting on the market now. especially since we've had success drafting and developing mid round picks into very good to elite level players.

 

So i think if you read between the lines - the identity or plan is there... and this draft, plus a bargain signing or two afterwards will show us the next step. Might take a 2nd year to truly have all the pieces of the OL in place; but they want a young, dominate OL to implement that type of offense.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

22 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

TE baffles me.  I can understand keeping one of Pitta or Watson for a competition, but both?  Let the young guys roll.  The decision to keep Pitta irks me to no end.  I've maintained my stance that they've been way too loyal to him.  It's great that he's Joe's best friend and worked his way back from terrible injuries, but I don't really see how he helps this team.

It'll be interesting to see though.  I just don't see any offensive identity outside of the checkdown and it's been that way for a very long time.

I can understand it -- they thought we were incredibly deep there last year, and then ended up most of the season with just Pitta (who you fear could go down for good at any minute) and WR-convert Waller.

And, as part of the identity question; if what i suspect is true, that we're building a versatile run/pass balance offense that is built on strong OL and multi-TE sets that we can push people in the run, or have a high percentage/short-to-intermediate passing game without changing personnel much at all... then having a lot of TEs with diverse skill sets makes sense.

You could easily have Boyle in as a FB/HB, with one of Pitta/Maxx/Waller in the slot and then Watson/Gillmore in line. If they truly envision having 2-3 TEs on the field a good portion of the time, then the depth almost becomes necessary.

Plus Pitta, Watson, Maxx and Gillmore are injury concerns and Boyle is a suspension away from done for the year. Prob makes  sense to hang onto everyone for a while at least until TC when you can evaluate and make sure everyone's healthy.

[rmw10]

13 minutes ago, trevorsteadman said:

I would be surprised if Watson is on the roster going into the season. Likely will keep him on the roster until OTA's and training camps just in case an injury happens

The one thing that might explain Watson is that he still hasn't been cleared, but it's also been stated that we had intentions of holding onto him anyways.

9 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

I think the plan is to build the OL through the draft, to have a young core group that can be together for a while.

With that and the coaching additions, they want to build a controlling run game which will help sustain drives, keep Joe in more 3rd and shorts, and keep the score down in games. The big # of TEs on the roster could support this, giving us the flexibility to have multiple TE sets that we can run out of effectively, but also consistently convert the 2nd and 5 or 6 and the 3rd and 3's.

And with that consistent run game, short TE passing game it should set up several PA deep shots to our burners on the outside. So, control the ball, grind out drives, and make sure we're getting at least 3 pts on drives.... and also give us a good chance to have 2-3 big explosive plays per game. Really fits the personnel in terms of the skill position players we have.

 

Im guessing the plan has always been in their mind to build the OL in the draft.... not paying the huge figures guys are getting on the market now. especially since we've had success drafting and developing mid round picks into very good to elite level players.

 

So i think if you read between the lines - the identity or plan is there... and this draft, plus a bargain signing or two afterwards will show us the next step. Might take a 2nd year to truly have all the pieces of the OL in place; but they want a young, dominate OL to implement that type of offense.

That sounds great but this is also an incredibly weak OL class.  It's easy to say you can build through the draft but (1) you need to hit on those picks and (2) you still have other needs that would seemingly need to be drafted as well.  I know it's still early so anything can happen, but I don't see any offensive identity right now.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

1 minute ago, rmw10 said:

The one thing that might explain Watson is that he still hasn't been cleared, but it's also been stated that we had intentions of holding onto him anyways.

That sounds great but this is also an incredibly weak OL class.  It's easy to say you can build through the draft but (1) you need to hit on those picks and (2) you still have other needs that would seemingly need to be drafted as well.  I know it's still early so anything can happen, but I don't see any offensive identity right now.

I dont think its necessarily a 1 year plan either. If you can pluck one guy thats a long term answer on the OL then you can improve, plug the gap at the other spot for a year and then hope to fill it next year. 

And OL is weak in terms of having potential franchise LTs at the top of the draft... but i think if you're looking for a run blocking RT, G or C there are very good options rounds 2-4 with big upside. Imo we're only a tough, mauling C away from having a good OL that can fit the identity of a balanced, ball control offense.

[rmw10]

1 minute ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

I dont think its necessarily a 1 year plan either. If you can pluck one guy thats a long term answer on the OL then you can improve, plug the gap at the other spot for a year and then hope to fill it next year. 

And OL is weak in terms of having potential franchise LTs at the top of the draft... but i think if you're looking for a run blocking RT, G or C there are very good options rounds 2-4 with big upside. Imo we're only a tough, mauling C away from having a good OL that can fit the identity of a balanced, ball control offense.

And that's where the confusion comes.  What is the plan?  Are we contending or building for the future?  The obvious choice is a little bit of both but it hasn't been that cut and dry so far.

There are options in rounds 2-4 but there are also 3-4 other positions you seemingly have to hit that you'd like to get in that range as well.

I get what you're saying but to this point, the offense as a whole has largely been ignored and it's tough to see a plan there.