Next Up: Ravens Free Agents--Who goes? Who stays?

[rossihunter2]

2 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

I just got a notification stating we've signed CB Brandon Carr to a 4 yr deal? Bye bye Claiborne??

yeah rapsheet reported it and the ravens have tweeted it too - he was completely off my radar

[Moderator 3]

Brandon Carr thread: http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/topic/72581-reports-ravens-sign-brandon-carr/

 

[ravensnick]

20 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

16 is too high to take a center. 

I remember when people laughed about Travis Frederick. Jerry is laughing at them now.

Edited March 16 by ravensnick

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

I hope Ozzie has a plan for the oline because it looks like it's gonna be terrible.

 

I don't hate the Carr signing, I just hate the fact that we are yet again neglecting the offense.

 

 

Its gonna get him fired

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

4 minutes ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

I hope Ozzie has a plan for the oline because it looks like it's gonna be terrible.

 

I don't hate the Carr signing, I just hate the fact that we are yet again neglecting the offense.

 

 

Its gonna get him fired

There's a plan and plenty of time. 

Question - what would you have had them do for the offense?

[rossihunter2]

4 minutes ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

I hope Ozzie has a plan for the oline because it looks like it's gonna be terrible.

 

I don't hate the Carr signing, I just hate the fact that we are yet again neglecting the offense.

 

 

Its gonna get him fired

i mean what do you want from him? he cant fill every hole with the limited cap space we have - if im honest im surprised we got all the guys we have already - if you'd have told me that we'd lose every major home-grown free agent including brandon williams and not brought in any major signings in free agency i would not have even been close to surprised especially given how close to the cap we were - the fact that we have all these "new toys" is crazy given where we started the off season

what do you want him to do? the olinemen in free agency werent particularly good and all got overpaid and picked off by teams with too much cap space like circling vultures - we couldnt compete in the wide receiver market - what would you have had him do in stead? pay dj fluker or riley reiff - no thanks...

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

2 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

There's a plan and plenty of time. 

Question - what would you have had them do for the offense?

Something as simple as keeping Wagner would've done us wonders. I don't trust Wesley, and frankly don't understand why we do. And/or if Wagner wasn't a good idea I would've paid for Larry Warford as I don't trust Lewis a a guard. I wouldn't have tendered Hurst(he's a turnstile. 

 

I don't give a damn about WR. I like Perriman, Wallace has another year in him, and I think we have a good up and coming TE in Maxx. But we need to do something about the oline. We're now down 2 starters on it and yes, I'm concerned. Zuttah wasn't great, but he could have thrived next to another good guard. 

I'm getting pissed at this point. I love most of the moves we've done with the defense(I think we gave too much money to Williams, and would've rather given it to Wagner), and like a lot of our offensive pieces going forward. But it ain't gonna mean a damn thing if we don't fix that line. 

 

Hell, I know we won't do it because of the domestic violence but I'd even be okay with signing Dunlap at this point. 

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

3 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

i mean what do you want from him? he cant fill every hole with the limited cap space we have - if im honest im surprised we got all the guys we have already - if you'd have told me that we'd lose every major home-grown free agent including brandon williams and not brought in any major signings in free agency i would not have even been close to surprised especially given how close to the cap we were - the fact that we have all these "new toys" is crazy given where we started the off season

what do you want him to do? the olinemen in free agency werent particularly good and all got overpaid and picked off by teams with too much cap space like circling vultures - we couldnt compete in the wide receiver market - what would you have had him do in stead? pay dj fluker or riley reiff - no thanks...

Larry Warford is a good guard who got paid very reasonably. Would've been great if we could've gotten him and put him next to Stanley, as he performed like a top 10 LT when Yanda was next to him. 

 

I mean, we had a very good replacement in the wings for Williams in Micheal Pierce, who was a very good player last year even as a rotational guy. 

 

I like the direction the team is going in. The defense is improved from last season by adding Tony Jefferson, a dude I've been vouching for, and I think that Carr is a rock solid piece. Not a world beater, but he's a solid player, and now we have a pretty good secondary. We still need a pass rusher, but now our biggest need by far is a better oline. 

 

Granted, there's still decent options on the market for RT. Pasztor for example. We could pull a 49ers and give Joe Berger a one year flier like they did for Jonathan Goodwin and that worked out rather well. 

 

But still. It's concerning. 

[rossihunter2]

14 minutes ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

Larry Warford is a good guard who got paid very reasonably. Would've been great if we could've gotten him and put him next to Stanley, as he performed like a top 10 LT when Yanda was next to him. 

 

I mean, we had a very good replacement in the wings for Williams in Micheal Pierce, who was a very good player last year even as a rotational guy. 

 

I like the direction the team is going in. The defense is improved from last season by adding Tony Jefferson, a dude I've been vouching for, and I think that Carr is a rock solid piece. Not a world beater, but he's a solid player, and now we have a pretty good secondary. We still need a pass rusher, but now our biggest need by far is a better oline. 

 

Granted, there's still decent options on the market for RT. Pasztor for example. We could pull a 49ers and give Joe Berger a one year flier like they did for Jonathan Goodwin and that worked out rather well. 

 

But still. It's concerning. 

i respectfully disagree about warford - alex lewis played very well as a guard before his injury and there is a reason the team doesnt want to move him out to tackle and was confident starting the season with him and stanley next to each other as rookie linemen and its because they saw promise and talent in practice - stanley and lewis will only get better as they improve as a duo on the left side for at least another 3 years - right tackle is a worry for me but theres no way a right tackle is worth the money that ricky wagner got in free agency

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

34 minutes ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

Something as simple as keeping Wagner would've done us wonders. I don't trust Wesley, and frankly don't understand why we do. And/or if Wagner wasn't a good idea I would've paid for Larry Warford as I don't trust Lewis a a guard. I wouldn't have tendered Hurst(he's a turnstile. 

 

I don't give a damn about WR. I like Perriman, Wallace has another year in him, and I think we have a good up and coming TE in Maxx. But we need to do something about the oline. We're now down 2 starters on it and yes, I'm concerned. Zuttah wasn't great, but he could have thrived next to another good guard. 

I'm getting pissed at this point. I love most of the moves we've done with the defense(I think we gave too much money to Williams, and would've rather given it to Wagner), and like a lot of our offensive pieces going forward. But it ain't gonna mean a damn thing if we don't fix that line. 

 

Hell, I know we won't do it because of the domestic violence but I'd even be okay with signing Dunlap at this point. 

Well at least you're not one of the ones whining about WRs. 

I agree OL is a concern right now and is the key to this offense improving. But I trust there's a plan. 

Wagner and Zuttah just aren't fits for what they say they want from the OL. Neither generates push in the run game and fixing the run game is the quickest way to the offense rebounding. 

Paying a ton more money for the same, poor run blocking line just didn't make sense to me. 

Im not at all concerned about RT. There's any number of cheap options that can run block well and a number of prospect in the middle rounds that project well in that sense. And I actually like Wesley quite a bit. Wouldn't be a bit worried if he's the starter week 1. But it's very fair to disagree there. 

I wouldn't sacrifice Williams, Jefferson, or even Carr to have been able to retain Wagner. Would've been nice to keep him but not at the expense of other positions. 

 

Zuttah will be addition by subtraction imo so long as whoever plays there can get push in the run game and anchor down against big DTs in the pass game. 

I don't dislike him as a player... but with us all but abandoning the stretch zone his talents have almost no value and his weaknesses become highlighted. 

Jensen and Skura are in house candidates, though neither are ideal in fairness. Idk enough about Skura to judge yet but the team clearly likes him a lot to have given him such a huge pay increase at the end of last season.

Jensen at the very least is a big, nasty dude who will be an improvement in the run game. Though again wouldn't be my preference. I think it'd be a net wash -- improved run blocking but weaker pass blocking. But I'll take that bc again I think if we can win consistently on early downs running the ball -- this team and especially Joe become exponentially better. 

 

I just cant imagine theyd have let Zuttah go before the draft and more importantly before June 1st if they didn't have a plan for C that they're very confident in. 

I come back to Mangold just bc he's the best on the market, played for Marty, should be fairly cheap, and fits the profile of what we want on the OL. 

If we can sign Mangold I'm 100% confident going into the draft and TC. RT will work itself out. The interior OL is the most important. 

And I like Lewis a lot. Fair to disagree of course... but for a rookie playing next to another rookie and a weak C he did really well. His run blocking especially improved as the year went on. And his versatility is a bonus where if we can find a big upgrade at G both Lewis or Yanda could kick out to RT to accommodate getting the best 5 guys on the field. 

 

If we got, say, Mangold -- would that ease your concerns?? Bc I agree that OL as presently constructed should be a worry. 

I'm just not worried bc all the indications I've seen tell me there's a plan. 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Zuttah, Monroe, Birk, Lewis, Cousins, Gaither, Yanda, McKinney, Urschel, that G/C from the Cowboys back in '11 or so, and the other older [profanity deleted] we grabbed around that time were all later FA, trade or draft additions that either weren't big dollar early FA adds or guys that came with much expectation that ended up paying immediate dividends as starters or important back ups. 

So we have a pretty decent history even recently of finding OL in unexpected ways that produced almost immediately on pretty good OL's for us. 

 

Im confident there's a plan... while we might not see it yet, like in many of these cases, I'm confident that by the time Week 1 rolls around we'll have very capable players at C and RT that coupled with the scheme/philosophy changes and an improved coaching staff will pay off in immediate improvement. 

 

Edit: not sure what the profanity deleted was for. Pretty sure I just typed a "G"

And the G/C from the 'Boys was Andre Gurode. 

The G I couldn't think of was Bobbie Williams. 

Edited March 17 by BOLDnPurPnBlacK

[rossihunter2]

39 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Zuttah, Monroe, Birk, Lewis, Cousins, Gaither, Yanda, McKinney, Urschel, that G/C from the Cowboys back in '11 or so, and the other older [profanity deleted] we grabbed around that time were all later FA, trade or draft additions that either weren't big dollar early FA adds or guys that came with much expectation that ended up paying immediate dividends as starters or important back ups. 

Don't forget ducasse last year as well

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

17 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

Don't forget ducasse last year as well

Yeaaaa left him off bc my lasting memories of him will be the big runs we popped off late in the season only to get called back bc Ducasse decided to grab and hold someone not even involved in the play while falling to the ground. 

It was prob only 2-3 times in reality.... but that's all that sticks out to me from him. 

[rossihunter2]

29 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Yeaaaa left him off bc my lasting memories of him will be the big runs we popped off late in the season only to get called back bc Ducasse decided to grab and hold someone not even involved in the play while falling to the ground. 

It was prob only 2-3 times in reality.... but that's all that sticks out to me from him. 

Haha, he was actually pretty good considering where we got him from - good enough to not rush Lewis back in - he was ironically actually pretty good in run blocking - he had 2/3 holding calls but also effectively sprung a few runs legally and I remember at least 1 of those calls being incredibly ticky-tacky

it is funny though how one memory can create such an impression - ducasse was serviceable but got the reputation as a guy with a holding problem - he was much more of a liability in the passing game but somehow the sacks he gave up were less eye catching 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

25 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

Haha, he was actually pretty good considering where we got him from - good enough to not rush Lewis back in - he was ironically actually pretty good in run blocking - he had 2/3 holding calls but also effectively sprung a few runs legally and I remember at least 1 of those calls being incredibly ticky-tacky

it is funny though how one memory can create such an impression - ducasse was serviceable but got the reputation as a guy with a holding problem - he was much more of a liability in the passing game but somehow the sacks he gave up were less eye catching 

Yea he wasn't great but compared to expectation was serviceable. And prob helped to look a little better by how bad Zuttah and Hurst were playing on either side of him. 

And I fully admit it's an irrational dislike of him based on 1-2 vivid memories. 

Cant remember if it was the Cowboys, NE or 2nd Pitt game but I can just see Dixon running between RT and RG, blows through a crease and is off to the races... busts off the 30 or so yard run down inside the 15. 

Then laundry on the field. 

Go to the replay and it shows Dixon already 5 yds beyond the OL and you see Ducasse falling to the ground and for no reason at all decides to wrap his arms around a DT and drag him to the ground along with him. 

Was a big momentum swing too. Went from knocking on the door for a TD to being backed up into a 2nd or 3rd and really long. 

And there was just no explanation whatsoever for Ducasse doing it. None. Dude had no play on Dixon period. Ugh... was so mad. And his goofy face staring up at the replay screen, smiling like "what did I do??" You literally bear hugged the guy and wrestled him to the ground.

 

Off topic vent for the evening. Sorry everyone. 

[Number23]

5 hours ago, rossihunter2 said:

i mean what do you want from him? he cant fill every hole with the limited cap space we have - if im honest im surprised we got all the guys we have already - if you'd have told me that we'd lose every major home-grown free agent including brandon williams and not brought in any major signings in free agency i would not have even been close to surprised especially given how close to the cap we were - the fact that we have all these "new toys" is crazy given where we started the off season

what do you want him to do? the olinemen in free agency werent particularly good and all got overpaid and picked off by teams with too much cap space like circling vultures - we couldnt compete in the wide receiver market - what would you have had him do in stead? pay dj fluker or riley reiff - no thanks...

That's kind of what I thought. The market just wasn't quite there for offense (though personally I would like to have kept Wagner over Williams but I know money isn't the only factor in FA) and if Ozzie HAD signed some of those guys that weren't quite good enough to the contracts they were demanding, we'd just be here next year complaining about FA busts.

[arnie_uk]

7 hours ago, rossihunter2 said:

Don't forget ducasse last year as well

He didn't. He sucked

[arnie_uk]

6 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Yea he wasn't great but compared to expectation was serviceable. And prob helped to look a little better by how bad Zuttah and Hurst were playing on either side of him. 

And I fully admit it's an irrational dislike of him based on 1-2 vivid memories. 

Cant remember if it was the Cowboys, NE or 2nd Pitt game but I can just see Dixon running between RT and RG, blows through a crease and is off to the races... busts off the 30 or so yard run down inside the 15. 

Then laundry on the field. 

Go to the replay and it shows Dixon already 5 yds beyond the OL and you see Ducasse falling to the ground and for no reason at all decides to wrap his arms around a DT and drag him to the ground along with him. 

Was a big momentum swing too. Went from knocking on the door for a TD to being backed up into a 2nd or 3rd and really long. 

And there was just no explanation whatsoever for Ducasse doing it. None. Dude had no play on Dixon period. Ugh... was so mad. And his goofy face staring up at the replay screen, smiling like "what did I do??" You literally bear hugged the guy and wrestled him to the ground.

 

Off topic vent for the evening. Sorry everyone. 

Cowboys. Took us out of there red zone and the next drive started their run of scoring 

[Cillmatic]

11 hours ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

I hope Ozzie has a plan for the oline because it looks like it's gonna be terrible.

 

I don't hate the Carr signing, I just hate the fact that we are yet again neglecting the offense.

 

 

Its gonna get him fired

#1 he's not getting fired. 

#2 our O-line as it stands now is just below average, not terrible. We still have Yanda, Stanley and a promising Alex Lewis. All we need is a center and LG.

[purpletide]

6 hours ago, Number23 said:

That's kind of what I thought. The market just wasn't quite there for offense (though personally I would like to have kept Wagner over Williams but I know money isn't the only factor in FA) and if Ozzie HAD signed some of those guys that weren't quite good enough to the contracts they were demanding, we'd just be here next year complaining about FA busts.

I don't like Wagner over Williams considering what Wagner was payed. Sure we payed Williams A LOT, and Wagner's a great player, but RT is the least important position on the O-line. Ozzie's probably pretty confident in what we've got or what we can get.

[Jon_21]

Does Marqueston Huff signing with the Chiefs count in the comp pick formula?  Obviously driven a little by contract size and years but would he be a qualifying FA given we rescinded his tender and he became a UFA?

[jboy19]

Im still curious about the Watson situation.  Realistically the team could end up keeping all 6 TEs if only 5 WRs (Wallace, Perriman, Moore, Camp/Reynolds, Draft Pick) are on the 53 man and Boyle takes the Juszczyk roster spot. 

[rossihunter2]

4 minutes ago, jboy19 said:

Im still curious about the Watson situation.  Realistically the team could end up keeping all 6 TEs if only 5 WRs (Wallace, Perriman, Moore, Camp/Reynolds, Draft Pick) are on the 53 man and Boyle takes the Juszczyk roster spot. 

with the dixon suspension as well it could open up an extra tight end spot for the first 4 games but realistically they arent all getting on the 53

and i hope doing the armageddon workout stuff will help camp stay stronger and healthier than he has been - i just want to see him stay healthy long enough to stack strong performances rather than give glimpses every 10 games or so

Edited March 17 by rossihunter2

[The Raven]

I really don't know how I feel about Alex Lewis at LG. I see people -- not just here -- that call him promising and say he's got a lot of potential. I don't see it. Because he's so tall and has such long arms, he's a wall in pass protection. But he's also really immobile, and his height makes it difficult for him to get leverage, so he was actually kinda bad in the run game. I'm hoping he works on his flexibility and quickness to contribute more as a run blocker. At his size, he could be a beast for us if he could move better and get lower.

I really wouldn't oppose drafting another interior guy to compete for the job.

Edited March 17 by The Raven

[rmw10]

4 minutes ago, The Raven said:

I really don't know how I feel about Alex Lewis at LG. I see people -- not just here -- that call him promising and say he's got a lot of potential. I don't see it. Because he's so tall and has such long arms, he's a wall in pass protection. But he's also really immobile, and his height makes it difficult for him to get leverage, so he was actually kinda bad in the run game. I'm hoping he works on his flexibility and quickness to contribute more as a run blocker. At his size, he could be a beast for us if he could move better and get lower.

I really wouldn't oppose drafting another interior guy to compete for the job.

I get the sense it's more about the team than individual opinions in this case.  I'm personally not sold on Lewis at LG, but the team seems to be.  They apparently view him as a potential pro bowl G.

[The Raven]

20 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

I get the sense it's more about the team than individual opinions in this case.  I'm personally not sold on Lewis at LG, but the team seems to be.  They apparently view him as a potential pro bowl G.

I mean, they've developed quite a few Pro Bowl guards (Yanda, Grubbs, KO) so I can see it. They might be on to something. KO had the exact same problems his rookie year that Lewis had. Pad level and mobility. 

[PurpleCity5]

1 hour ago, jboy19 said:

Im still curious about the Watson situation.  Realistically the team could end up keeping all 6 TEs if only 5 WRs (Wallace, Perriman, Moore, Camp/Reynolds, Draft Pick) are on the 53 man and Boyle takes the Juszczyk roster spot. 

I wouldn't be shocked if the Ravens held onto him until T.C. His contract isn't expensive and what Watson had the Ravens lacked. They badly needed a vertical TE who could stretch the middle of the field, and shift coverage safeties consistently. Pitta's inability to separate from LBs allowed for more safeties to play deep coverage and pretty much force our plays to play the short field game more, because they knew in the back of their minds that Wallace and Perriman could burn them deep on any given moment. There were reports of him emerging as the #1 TE through TC and had he stayed healthy he very well would have been it. I personally think the loss of Watson was very underrated for the Ravens. 

[jboy19]

34 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

I wouldn't be shocked if the Ravens held onto him until T.C. His contract isn't expensive and what Watson had the Ravens lacked. They badly needed a vertical TE who could stretch the middle of the field, and shift coverage safeties consistently. Pitta's inability to separate from LBs allowed for more safeties to play deep coverage and pretty much force our plays to play the short field game more, because they knew in the back of their minds that Wallace and Perriman could burn them deep on any given moment. There were reports of him emerging as the #1 TE through TC and had he stayed healthy he very well would have been it. I personally think the loss of Watson was very underrated for the Ravens. 

I think the loss of Watson was definitely a problem. He was one of the best red zone weapons in 2015 with the Saints. Then the Ravens had redzone nightmares in 2016. 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

4 hours ago, The Raven said:

I really don't know how I feel about Alex Lewis at LG. I see people -- not just here -- that call him promising and say he's got a lot of potential. I don't see it. Because he's so tall and has such long arms, he's a wall in pass protection. But he's also really immobile, and his height makes it difficult for him to get leverage, so he was actually kinda bad in the run game. I'm hoping he works on his flexibility and quickness to contribute more as a run blocker. At his size, he could be a beast for us if he could move better and get lower.

I really wouldn't oppose drafting another interior guy to compete for the job.

I dont know either.

He did better than i expected for a T turned G at his size thrown into the fire right away.... but the team sees him every single day and they seem pretty high on him. I'm content in that for now. If they feel hes a long term solution with All Pro upside, then im not in any place to contradict that with the limited sample size ive seen on him.

I think its how matter of factly they brought him up in the State of the Ravens presser, and the confidence with which they compared him to KO that has most high on him. At least that has a lot to do with it for me.

 

But im also of the mind that they could move him to T bc i see a more natural fit there bc of his size/length. and some of it is probably just not wanting to even suggest to myself that we have a 3rd position on the OL that we could need an upgrade.

Edited March 17 by BOLDnPurPnBlacK

[BmoreBird22]

7 hours ago, The Raven said:

I mean, they've developed quite a few Pro Bowl guards (Yanda, Grubbs, KO) so I can see it. They might be on to something. KO had the exact same problems his rookie year that Lewis had. Pad level and mobility. 

This was actually my major area of concern for KO following the playoff run. I didn't think he moved well enough to the second level or identified second level blocks well enough. 

Of course, I'm not expert on the line and that clearly turned out wrong.