Next Up: Ravens Free Agents--Who goes? Who stays?

[usmccharles]

9 minutes ago, OUravensfan said:

Doesn't mean much now but I really wanted Crabtree a few years ago, and he fell hard to the second wave of FA.

I was all over that train too

[Deflated Football]

15 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

I just worry how much hes going to get paid, makes me nervous

I really hope someone overpays him. I don't want him back 

[usmccharles]

Just now, Deflated Football said:

I really hope someone overpays him. I don't want him back 

sport-trac has an estimated market value of 6mill if I remember correctly.  With the cap going up another 10 mill and guys like Sanu getting 8 mill a year, I could see him getting 6

[Deflated Football]

Just now, usmccharles said:

sport-trac has an estimated market value of 6mill if I remember correctly.  With the cap going up another 10 mill and guys like Sanu getting 8 mill a year, I could see him getting 6

Well that sucks for whoever pays him that much 

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, usmccharles said:

sport-trac has an estimated market value of 6mill if I remember correctly.  With the cap going up another 10 mill and guys like Sanu getting 8 mill a year, I could see him getting 6

I hate Spotrac's "market value" system. I find them to be incredibly inconsistent and inaccurate. 

I would be highly surprised if Kamar Aiken netted more than $5M a year from anybody, and I'm not sure its significantly less than that. He looks like a slightly less productive Reuben Randle to me if you're looking at statistics.

He signed for basically the veteran minimum.

I think Aiken's a $3-4M a year player, at best. 

[usmccharles]

1 minute ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I hate Spotrac's "market value" system. I find them to be incredibly inconsistent and inaccurate. 

I would be highly surprised if Kamar Aiken netted more than $5M a year from anybody, and I'm not sure its significantly less than that. He looks like a slightly less productive Reuben Randle to me if you're looking at statistics.

He signed for basically the veteran minimum.

I think Aiken's a $3-4M a year player, at best. 

I just seen it for the first time this year.  I would love to be able to see previous estimates by them and see how close they were, maybe we need to do that this year with all their predictions. would be interesting. 

[GrimCoconut]

34 minutes ago, OUravensfan said:

Maybe we do keep Kamar after all, it fits the continuity theme as well. It seems natural that by subtracting Smith you give Kamar more targets, the plays he missed really stand out to me however. The Pittsburgh blunder really illustrates perfectly what his ceiling is. But he would be a good possession WR to have if we can't find anyone else. 

I don't think Aiken wants to come back so the decision may not be ours or within our control. 

[rmcjacket23]

3 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

I just seen it for the first time this year.  I would love to be able to see previous estimates by them and see how close they were, maybe we need to do that this year with all their predictions. would be interesting. 

I don't believe they publish market values for all players, but I could take a quick look. Typically I think they just choose a handful of guys that are likely to be UFAs.

I agree that its a very difficult thing to do, but I also am not always a fan of the "comps" they use. Like I don't think Torrey Smith is a good "comp" for Aiken, mostly because they have two completely different skill sets. Outside "burners" almost always fetch a higher priced that a possession receiver like Aiken, and Aiken never had the kind of big seasons that Crabtree had, who was a #1 WR on a team.

While I don't think teams always follow what other teams are doing, I don't see too many teams who go out and spend decent money on a teams like 3rd or 4th best WR, especially on a team that had an offense as ineffective as ours. Not like its a situation where its like Davante Adams on a Packers team and there's just too many mouths to feed.

[JO_75]

I just hope the first move we make is re-signing Ricky Wagner for OL consistency. With Lewis, I feel we could develop him as our future LG while Wagner nails down RT for the next several years. I think something similar to what Mitchell Schwartz got from the Chiefs with extra money in incentives(pro bowl, playoffs, etc) should be good to keep him.

[rossihunter2]

36 minutes ago, OUravensfan said:

Maybe we do keep Kamar after all, it fits the continuity theme as well. It seems natural that by subtracting Smith you give Kamar more targets, the plays he missed really stand out to me however. The Pittsburgh blunder really illustrates perfectly what his ceiling is. But he would be a good possession WR to have if we can't find anyone else. 

i think he's gone - yes he was good value this season and last but he won't be soon and is easily replaceable - in all likelihood i think we maybe keep juice and maybe wagner on top of that of the frontline 3 free agents

and then jerraud powers might be kept around as a useful 3rd/4th cb, vlad ducasse could maybe stay as a backup guard again, likewise anthony levine

guy might stay if he's still cheap, and we probably at least try and re sign ryan mallett although i dont know if he'll go looking for starting opportunities or not...

that means brandon williams is gone and kamar will likely be right behind him - my only hope is that someone overpays kamar and we get a comp pick out of him

[GrimCoconut]

I just tools quick look at Torrey Smith and he could potentially find himself cut after he stole all that money from SF. The cap savings make him a possibility there. A homecoming could occur here. 

[rossihunter2]

16 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

He signed for basically the veteran minimum.

I think Aiken's a $3-4M a year player, at best. 

in that sense we are handicapped by the good-looking wr free agent market this year unless some weird and unexpected resignings take place - either that beefs up the market value of everyone or it stops the lower guys getting paid at all

[rossihunter2]

1 minute ago, GrimCoconut said:

I just tools quick look at Torrey Smith and he could potentially find himself cut after he stole all that money from SF. The cap savings make him a possibility there. A homecoming could occur here. 

i dont think it happens - he's a similar player to wallace and will probably still cost money that we wont have

[rmcjacket23]

3 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

in that sense we are handicapped by the good-looking wr free agent market this year unless some weird and unexpected resignings take place - either that beefs up the market value of everyone or it stops the lower guys getting paid at all

I mean I easily could be wrong, but that's just how I view it. I think people have to be careful when comparing receivers just based on production, because NFL teams care about more than that.

I think teams are willing to pay a premium for speed and size at the position. I think that's why Torrey got as much as he did. I don't think Aiken has any significant, stand out attributes that will attract him significantly to other teams.

Ultimately, like anything else, its a supply/demand scenario. The top guys in the UFA WR class right now are Jeffery (the easy top dog), DeSean Jackson (has tons of speed and big play ability), and then there's a dropoff to guys like Garcon, Britt, Vincent Jackson, etc.

If some of those guys get locked up early or even before FA, then Aiken becomes more valuable.

[usmccharles]

14 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I don't believe they publish market values for all players, but I could take a quick look. Typically I think they just choose a handful of guys that are likely to be UFAs.

I agree that its a very difficult thing to do, but I also am not always a fan of the "comps" they use. Like I don't think Torrey Smith is a good "comp" for Aiken, mostly because they have two completely different skill sets. Outside "burners" almost always fetch a higher priced that a possession receiver like Aiken, and Aiken never had the kind of big seasons that Crabtree had, who was a #1 WR on a team.

While I don't think teams always follow what other teams are doing, I don't see too many teams who go out and spend decent money on a teams like 3rd or 4th best WR, especially on a team that had an offense as ineffective as ours. Not like its a situation where its like Davante Adams on a Packers team and there's just too many mouths to feed.

Yea they don't do it for everyone and I couldn't find an explanation why that was the case. 

 

1 minute ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I mean I easily could be wrong, but that's just how I view it. I think people have to be careful when comparing receivers just based on production, because NFL teams care about more than that.

I think teams are willing to pay a premium for speed and size at the position. I think that's why Torrey got as much as he did. I don't think Aiken has any significant, stand out attributes that will attract him significantly to other teams.

Ultimately, like anything else, its a supply/demand scenario. The top guys in the UFA WR class right now are Jeffery (the easy top dog), DeSean Jackson (has tons of speed and big play ability), and then there's a dropoff to guys like Garcon, Britt, Vincent Jackson, etc.

If some of those guys get locked up early or even before FA, then Aiken becomes more valuable.

Weird, someone who understands market value

[rossihunter2]

i think aiken might become a little like james jones of the last few years - brought in to a young receiving corps and expected to essentially become a safety net if those guys underachieve but will also handicap the receiving corps if those youngsters do develop by taking opportunities away from those same guys

[EdTheMythicalOne]

It is all going to come down to what these players ask for and what their markets actually are. Some DT's that didn't really put up amazing stats got paid last off season so apparently they are back in vogue as "playmakers" even if they aren't getting a bunch of sacks. Somebody will probably pay Brandon Williams and if that is the case, the Ravens will move on. I think they've seen enough out of Pierce to think he can step up and we still have Carl Davis, Willie Henry and Timmy Jernigan on the roster, plus you can always draft a big body in the 4th-5th round and usually get a rotational player or better out of it at the position.

I like Lawrence Guy and think he's one of those unsung hero types, but he's about to make some money at a place where we can skim due to depth. We already have Carl Davis who could play there, Brent Urban, and Bronson Kaufusi when he gets healthy. Plus you can always find a guy like Guy off of another roster release because that's how we got Guy in the first place.

I think Juice comes back. I don't think he will cost too much and I think everybody understands that nobody will value him or use him quite in the same way as Baltimore does. If he wants to simply become a bowling ball for another team, then that's his choice.

Kamar Aiken is gone and good riddance. Classic Ravens overachiever. Let some other team pay a high premium for mediocre talent.

I think there will be some changes to the TE position. I think Ben Wallace is gone and Gillmore may be gone too. I think Pitta played himself into a #2 TE spot behind a healthy Maxx Williams...but I can also see Pitta getting axed to make way for Maxx, Boyle, and Waller going forward.

I think Rick Wagner is gone. He will get paid by somebody and we have in house options. I think Alex Lewis moves to RT, Yanda may move permanently to LG, and we have a few guys around to fill in at RG. Of all the positions to fill on the OL, I think RG is the easiest. I like Yanda the vet playing next to Stanley the youngster.

I expect massive depth overhaul to the secondary again. No big moves, just more 3rd and 4th CB types to replace the ones we replaced already.

I see some people saying Matt Elam comes back. No way that happens. He looked awful every time he was on the field. No matter how cheaply he comes, you can't afford to have him on the field. He costs you points and games, the most expensive price to pay.

I see Kamar Aiken and Matt Elam read my post.

Edited January 4 by EdTheMythicalOne

[rossihunter2]

4 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I mean I easily could be wrong, but that's just how I view it. I think people have to be careful when comparing receivers just based on production, because NFL teams care about more than that.

I think teams are willing to pay a premium for speed and size at the position. I think that's why Torrey got as much as he did. I don't think Aiken has any significant, stand out attributes that will attract him significantly to other teams.

Ultimately, like anything else, its a supply/demand scenario. The top guys in the UFA WR class right now are Jeffery (the easy top dog), DeSean Jackson (has tons of speed and big play ability), and then there's a dropoff to guys like Garcon, Britt, Vincent Jackson, etc.

If some of those guys get locked up early or even before FA, then Aiken becomes more valuable.

in terms of his market - i think his agent will be spinning all kinds of tales about what he could do as a number 1 receiver even with terrible qb play "see exhibit 2015 season" etc etc. - whether teams will look at that and see potential or not is down to them obviously but the fact that he nearly hit 1000 yards (albeit that doesnt mean a huge amount anymore) will be a sort of selling point i guess

i guess im hoping his market value is high because i dont think he adds anything to the receiving corps here - to me he was a more experienced jeremy butler who has ended up with 2 catches all year - you can pick someone comparable up off the street for less

im stuck between the pragmatic approach that it doesnt hurt to have cheap bodies around but also that in my head, as with a lot of fans, i fantasise about the younger guys stepping up "if only they had the chance" even though -back to pragmatic - they obviously havent been playing well enough etc. to earn that chance

even so i hope aiken makes a load of money for both himself and for us - if he does we all win: he gets a load of money, and we maybe get a comp pick - or at worst another guy to go to udfas and say look how much money we made that guy (even though we didnt draft him)

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, rossihunter2 said:

in terms of his market - i think his agent will be spinning all kinds of tales about what he could do as a number 1 receiver even with terrible qb play "see exhibit 2015 season" etc etc. - whether teams will look at that and see potential or not is down to them obviously but the fact that he nearly hit 1000 yards (albeit that doesnt mean a huge amount anymore) will be a sort of selling point i guess

i guess im hoping his market value is high because i dont think he adds anything to the receiving corps here - to me he was a more experienced jeremy butler who has ended up with 2 catches all year - you can pick someone comparable up off the street for less

im stuck between the pragmatic approach that it doesnt hurt to have cheap bodies around but also that in my head, as with a lot of fans, i fantasise about the younger guys stepping up "if only they had the chance" even though -back to pragmatic - they obviously havent been playing well enough etc. to earn that chance

even so i hope aiken makes a load of money for both himself and for us - if he does we all win: he gets a load of money, and we maybe get a comp pick - or at worst another guy to go to udfas and say look how much money we made that guy (even though we didnt draft him)

Nobody is signing him as a #1 WR. Even in that price range, you won't get that. Crabtree was brought in as the veteran compliment to Cooper, a stud first rounder, and Sanu was signed to play second fiddle to Julio Jones. Even if he's in the price range, he won't be the primary option on any team, no matter what his agent sells.

[rossihunter2]

9 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Nobody is signing him as a #1 WR. Even in that price range, you won't get that. Crabtree was brought in as the veteran compliment to Cooper, a stud first rounder, and Sanu was signed to play second fiddle to Julio Jones. Even if he's in the price range, he won't be the primary option on any team, no matter what his agent sells.

i meant as part of bargaining talks - not to actually be brought in to become one

[codizzle]

56 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

I just tools quick look at Torrey Smith and he could potentially find himself cut after he stole all that money from SF. The cap savings make him a possibility there. A homecoming could occur here. 

No thanks... Ravens desperately need a receiver that can run precise routes 

[DomMcRaven]

Welp, in breaking news....

Jeff Zrebiec ‏@jeffzrebiecsun  9h9 hours ago

Ravens say they need to add a possession wide receiver.

 

[K-Dog]

4 minutes ago, DomMcRaven said:

Welp, in breaking news....

Jeff Zrebiec ‏@jeffzrebiecsun  9h9 hours ago

Ravens say they need to add a possession wide receiver.

 

Man.
He really did his homework on that one....

[Tank 92]

19 hours ago, usmccharles said:

You want to go into the offseason with Aiken, BP, Moore as our top WRs? that's a disaster waiting to happen.  I never thought id see this fan base want to cut a WR that hit 1k yards in a season where our offense was terrible.  He clearly still has plenty of game left. 

Wallace is a big play waiting to happen, if he's in the right situation. For me he's not the guy that's going to make something out of nothing. He's not going to break a tackle and he's not putting moves on anyone to break free. If he has a step or is out in the open his speed will blow by most. What concerns me is that he doesn't consistently make the tough catch and he often shows alligator arms.

With Smitty gone we need a dependable, sure handed guy, especially at the price point of Mike. If the Skins don't retain Garcon, I can see him being that guy. His play reminds a lot of Boldin and he seems to be exactly what the Ravens need. But my guess though is that he stays in DC, so IDK.  lol

 

[Cillmatic]

O-line needs to be:

Stanley-Lewis-rookie-Yanda-Wagner 

if we want to compete next year.

 

Wagner needs to be the top priority. 

[Somerset Ravens]

23 minutes ago, Cillmatic said:

O-line needs to be:

Stanley-Lewis-rookie-Yanda-Wagner 

if we want to compete next year.

 

Wagner needs to be the top priority. 

That would be a good start and hopefully we will be able to retain Wagner. I also think it is important we improve our backups on the offensive line since injuries will always occur. Having to rely on Hurst, Jensen or Ducasse is a problem waiting to happen.

[usmccharles]

3 hours ago, Tank 92 said:

Wallace is a big play waiting to happen, if he's in the right situation. For me he's not the guy that's going to make something out of nothing. He's not going to break a tackle and he's not putting moves on anyone to break free. If he has a step or is out in the open his speed will blow by most. What concerns me is that he doesn't consistently make the tough catch and he often shows alligator arms.

With Smitty gone we need a dependable, sure handed guy, especially at the price point of Mike. If the Skins don't retain Garcon, I can see him being that guy. His play reminds a lot of Boldin and he seems to be exactly what the Ravens need. But my guess though is that he stays in DC, so IDK.  lol

 

I completely agree with everything here.  

[January J]

5 hours ago, Tank 92 said:

Wallace is a big play waiting to happen, if he's in the right situation. For me he's not the guy that's going to make something out of nothing. He's not going to break a tackle and he's not putting moves on anyone to break free. If he has a step or is out in the open his speed will blow by most. What concerns me is that he doesn't consistently make the tough catch and he often shows alligator arms.

With Smitty gone we need a dependable, sure handed guy, especially at the price point of Mike. If the Skins don't retain Garcon, I can see him being that guy. His play reminds a lot of Boldin and he seems to be exactly what the Ravens need. But my guess though is that he stays in DC, so IDK.  lol

 

What about Boldin himself? I believe he's a FA...he seems to still be producing...would it hurt to bring him in on a 1 year deal and draft another youngster to develop? I don't see much downside- and I'm sure he'd highly consider a Baltimore reunion.

1)Wallace 2)Perriman 3) Boldin 4) Rookie x  5)campanaro 6)moore

doesnt sound like a bad corps..and you could actually afford to bring in another vet as well in that case.  How about:

1) Wallace 2) Garcon 3) Boldin 4)  Perriman 5) Rookie x 6) Campanaro 7) Moore

that would be 3 burners - 2 possession receivers and 2 potential slot receivers. Just a thought. Depending on perrimans development ofcourse he could work his way up- but I think he might still be just 1 year away. So a 1 year stop gap in a vet such as Boldin may not be a bad idea. Then again I really should've done my homework first BC I'm not even sure if he's available.

[EdTheMythicalOne]

51 minutes ago, January J said:

What about Boldin himself? I believe he's a FA...he seems to still be producing...would it hurt to bring him in on a 1 year deal and draft another youngster to develop? I don't see much downside- and I'm sure he'd highly consider a Baltimore reunion.

So a 1 year stop gap in a vet such as Boldin may not be a bad idea. Then again I really should've done my homework first BC I'm not even sure if he's available.

He signed a 1 year $2.75 million contract with the Detroit Lions.

He caught 67 passes for 584 yards and 8TDs. That does work out to a pretty paltry and career low 8.7 yards a catch, but you aren't grabbing him to be a big play home run hitter. You're getting him to move the chains and catch those short redzone TD passes and he's proven once again he can still get it done. I think 8TDs for receiving would have led the Ravens?

[Tank 92]

50 minutes ago, January J said:

What about Boldin himself? I believe he's a FA...he seems to still be producing...would it hurt to bring him in on a 1 year deal and draft another youngster to develop? I don't see much downside- and I'm sure he'd highly consider a Baltimore reunion.

1)Wallace 2)Perriman 3) Boldin 4) Rookie x  5)campanaro 6)moore

doesnt sound like a bad corps..and you could actually afford to bring in another vet as well in that case.  How about:

1) Wallace 2) Garcon 3) Boldin 4)  Perriman 5) Rookie x 6) Campanaro 7) Moore

that would be 3 burners - 2 possession receivers and 2 potential slot receivers. Just a thought. Depending on perrimans development ofcourse he could work his way up- but I think he might still be just 1 year away. So a 1 year stop gap in a vet such as Boldin may not be a bad idea. Then again I really should've done my homework first BC I'm not even sure if he's available.

I'll take door # 2!  lol

I don't think we would pay both Garcon and Wallace, but you never know.  Q is on a one year deal but will be 37 next year and if he continues to play guessing he would stay put rather than coming here.