Next Up: Ravens Free Agents--Who goes? Who stays?

[BmoreBird22]

3 minutes ago, arnie_uk said:

Talk to me....

I'm also really curious.

I'd never heard of him before this year. Was this his first year of being a star?

[allblackraven]

23 minutes ago, arnie_uk said:

Talk to me....

Yep. Small sample but he might be outside our budget (if Texans even let him walk).

[redlobster]

4 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

Yep. Small sample but he might be outside our budget (if Texans even let him walk).

I doubt it, Texans have about $25 million in cap space and already have 53 players under contract. They probably pay him.

[allblackraven]

7 minutes ago, redlobster said:

I doubt it, Texans have about $25 million in cap space and already have 53 players under contract. They probably pay him.

Uh, with that cap space they might even be able to do some manoeuvring and carry proper QB on the roster alongside Brock for couple years.

[rmw10]

1 hour ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I'm also really curious.

I'd never heard of him before this year. Was this his first year of being a star?

He showed flashes in his past couple years but really put it together this year and was one of the best in the league.  He played very well, but at least it's not 100% out of the blue.  He was doing some good things the past couple of years at least.

[RavensFanMania]

3 hours ago, DomMcRaven said:

Personally, I hope we keep Wagner for the sake of continuity. In our "State of the Ravens" press conference, our Front Office mentioned that one of the keys of the offseason is to build our offensive line. I'm sure there will be another Ravens fan who can talk more about his ability better than I can. However, it depends on how much he's asking so we'll see. It's not a coincidence that Flacco started playing better down the stretch.

As far as your Texans free agents are concerned, who are most likely to get cut?

Understand we want to build the ol and it's a good idea but we need an OL coach first.  Any information out there on who we are interested in.

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

Whelp Oz and Harbs need to figure out who of our free agents they want to keep and extend the best top offer  the team is willing to pay for them and let them know that it is the best offer they will receive from the Ravens there is NO NEGOTIATING THE OFFER. The reason I say this is with the newer free agency rules on when teams can start negotiating contracts we have seen it happen all over the league players having offers from other teams on the table and at the very second free agency begins they are signing with a new team. With the final and best offer on the table for the guys they really want to keep they just might have a chance to keep one or two of their own guys. That being said I am only saying do this with the players you definitely want back not every free agent player on the roster. For this to work they would have to extend their max amount of a contract and that's still no guarantee that we get our guy back but at least the player knows where he stands and just might take a little less to stay on the Ravens roster.

[Hardbaugh]

Hopefully they start spending all the money on defense. The offense is what it always will be until the cord gets cut, a mediocre , sputtering unit that can't get out of it's own way at times that operates a comedic two minute offense.

[The Raven]

16 hours ago, rmw10 said:

Wagner is an interesting case.  He was really good in 2014, but went down with the dreaded lisfranc injury at the end of the season.  We've seen countless players who really struggle in their next year back from that awful injury, so I'd think 2015 had a lot more to do with his recovery than anything else.  He started 2016 a little questionable, but really rounded into 2014 form as the season went on.

If it was up to me, Wagner would be the priority re-signing over Brandon Williams.  However, I think the team may be looking in a different direction.  During our season ending press conference, it was said that we want to get bigger and stronger on the OL.  Neither of those really describe Wagner.  He's not supremely athletic, but has good feet and relies on his technique.  I prefer my OL that was personally, but it sounds like the team may be looking for something different.

I'd rather have the power guys. Technique doesn't (always) get you that extra yard on 3rd and 1. When it comes down to it, offensive line comes down to being able to plant somebody into the turf. Wagner has never been that type. Always the type that could just wall off and seal. 

I've always liked the idea of getting maulers and working on their technique -- like Ryan Jensen. There are probably better examples, since we all know Jensen is far from perfect, but Jensen is the kind of prospect I like. A strong mauler with underrated athleticism. Hell, Marshall Yanda is another example of a guy like that. Remember he was a third round pick.

It's difficult to find maulers with footwork, but as long as they aren't as fat as Bryant McKinnie, they can usually figure it out with good coaching. Different protection sets can also help with that. 

[jboy19]

1 hour ago, The Raven said:

I'd rather have the power guys. Technique doesn't (always) get you that extra yard on 3rd and 1. When it comes down to it, offensive line comes down to being able to plant somebody into the turf. Wagner has never been that type. Always the type that could just wall off and seal. 

I've always liked the idea of getting maulers and working on their technique -- like Ryan Jensen. There are probably better examples, since we all know Jensen is far from perfect, but Jensen is the kind of prospect I like. A strong mauler with underrated athleticism. Hell, Marshall Yanda is another example of a guy like that. Remember he was a third round pick.

It's difficult to find maulers with footwork, but as long as they aren't as fat as Bryant McKinnie, they can usually figure it out with good coaching. Different protection sets can also help with that. 

I think that's been the kind of prospects the FO has chased for a while and sometimes its worked out  (Yanda, Osemele) sometimes it hasn't  (Gradkowski, Myers, Oher). It's been a pretty good blueprint, but it's been difficult to project the future of players like that coming out of college. 

[usmccharles]

3 hours ago, Hardbaugh said:

Hopefully they start spending all the money on defense. The offense is what it always will be until the cord gets cut, a mediocre , sputtering unit that can't get out of it's own way at times that operates a comedic two minute offense.

So when years we actually had weapons for Joe, and I don't know win the SB, that's not good enough?  It blows my mind how people think the FO has done any type of a decent job giving him weapons and blame Joe.  2014 was a great year, we had a run game and SSr was still balling out, Torrey stretched the field and we should have beat NE....that was on the defense. 

[Purple_Polo89]

4 hours ago, Hardbaugh said:

Hopefully they start spending all the money on defense. The offense is what it always will be until the cord gets cut, a mediocre , sputtering unit that can't get out of it's own way at times that operates a comedic two minute offense.

Dude... first of all just stop. Second we are 4-5yrs removed from a Super Bowl with the same coach and QB tandem. You know how many teams wish they could say that? I'm excited to see what plans are put into place to get us back on top next yr and like coach, Ozzie, and Steve said the needs will be met by draft and free agency so have some faith dude. At least we aren't the screaming dumpster fire that is the Browns so don't act the sky is falling. Hasn't been 10 yrs since a playoff win or super bowl.

[PurpleCity5]

4 hours ago, The Raven said:

I'd rather have the power guys. Technique doesn't (always) get you that extra yard on 3rd and 1. When it comes down to it, offensive line comes down to being able to plant somebody into the turf. Wagner has never been that type. Always the type that could just wall off and seal. 

I've always liked the idea of getting maulers and working on their technique -- like Ryan Jensen. There are probably better examples, since we all know Jensen is far from perfect, but Jensen is the kind of prospect I like. A strong mauler with underrated athleticism. Hell, Marshall Yanda is another example of a guy like that. Remember he was a third round pick.

It's difficult to find maulers with footwork, but as long as they aren't as fat as Bryant McKinnie, they can usually figure it out with good coaching. Different protection sets can also help with that. 

That's what I was thinking in reference to Wagner. He's not a mauler, he does a good, no great job at containing his blocks but he's not a mauler in the run game. 

Another mauler would be Kelechi Osemele, who I feel like we miss here. Lewis has done a solid job at filling in at LG but he isn't as physical as KO, in the pass or run. We need a mauler here, guys who'll push guys around and bring a strong physical front, that start with Zuttah and replacing him, but I don't know if we stop there or keep going with changes. 

[VermontRaven]

42 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

That's what I was thinking in reference to Wagner. He's not a mauler, he does a good, no great job at containing his blocks but he's not a mauler in the run game. 

Another mauler would be Kelechi Osemele, who I feel like we miss here. Lewis has done a solid job at filling in at LG but he isn't as physical as KO, in the pass or run. We need a mauler here, guys who'll push guys around and bring a strong physical front, that start with Zuttah and replacing him, but I don't know if we stop there or keep going with changes. 

While I agree with you that we miss KO and Lewis wasn't as good as KO, I think we are not giving Lewis enough credit.  He was a 4th round pick in his rookie year.  I haven't went back and compared, but if we compared KO year 1 vs. Lewis year 1, my guess is that they would be pretty comparable (anyone feel free to chime in here if they have actually reviewed tape to compare).  I am hopeful that Lewis turns into a KO-type player, but that is yet to be seen.  I was happy with what I saw from him (Lewis) and hope he continues to progress next year.  We have him on a rookie contract and if he continues to progress, we are going to have one heck of a value at LG for a few years!

[Purple_Polo89]

57 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

That's what I was thinking in reference to Wagner. He's not a mauler, he does a good, no great job at containing his blocks but he's not a mauler in the run game. 

Another mauler would be Kelechi Osemele, who I feel like we miss here. Lewis has done a solid job at filling in at LG but he isn't as physical as KO, in the pass or run. We need a mauler here, guys who'll push guys around and bring a strong physical front, that start with Zuttah and replacing him, but I don't know if we stop there or keep going with changes. 

Here's the line next year...starting with LT and moving down: Stanley, Lewis, either Jensen or Urschel as the center, poppa Marshal, and Wagner if he stays. The two dark horses are Center and RT. Not sure who replaces Wagner wether a vet or rookie but I know for a fact Zuttah is gone. He's been a headache the last 2 years with these holding calls.

 

yeah I do miss KO a bunch but Alex Lewis was getting pretty high grades up until he got hurt.

Edited January 17 by Purple_Polo89

[The Raven]

The problem with Lewis is that he was asked, as a 6'6 mammoth who I don't believe had interior experience, to become a dancing bear in a zone scheme that requires phone booth quickness.

There's a reason you don't see a lot of 6'6 guards, especially in teams with zone schemes. They tend to lack pad level, flexibility, and quickness, three essential traits of zone blocking guards. I would bet that most zone blocking guards are in the 6'2 - 6'4, 310 pound range, as opposed to the 6'6 330 that Lewis is.

He'd be fine in other schemes where he doesn't have to worry about simultaneously sealing and driving defenders. If you let him just attack the defender across from him instead of making him dance with the defender, he'd be able to focus more on that pad level and get drive.

[trevorsteadman]

2 hours ago, usmccharles said:

So when years we actually had weapons for Joe, and I don't know win the SB, that's not good enough?  It blows my mind how people think the FO has done any type of a decent job giving him weapons and blame Joe.  2014 was a great year, we had a run game and SSr was still balling out, Torrey stretched the field and we should have beat NE....that was on the defense. 

I am also one of those battling off the trolls on these forums. These are probably the same people who thought Flacco was the best quarterback in the league after his super bowl run. Fans sway so fast it is rediculous. Fact is there hasn't been continuity in years on the offense. Why do people think Flacco went off when he did? Possibly because he was playing in the same offense for 5 seasons, had Torrey Smith, Jacoby Jones, and AnQuan Boldin for a few years, the same running back for a few years who was productive, and the offensive line had a solid run.

None of our positions on offense is even close to on par with that super bowl run. And that is really unfortunate for Flacco. People keep comparing Flacco to players like Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, and Ben Roethlisberger and it is very unfair. None of those guys have a new offensive coordinator every season, new offensive system put in place, and nearly as many targets rotating around him.

Like Steve Smith said Flacco has had to do a lot of thinking because one word in one offense means something else in the other 10 he has been in. Give him a simple system next year Marty and hopefully it is somewhat effective that they can build off of it for the next 2 or 3 years.

Also start spending money on the offense! 

[Hardbaugh]

29 minutes ago, trevorsteadman said:

I am also one of those battling off the trolls on these forums. These are probably the same people who thought Flacco was the best quarterback in the league after his super bowl run. Fans sway so fast it is rediculous. Fact is there hasn't been continuity in years on the offense. Why do people think Flacco went off when he did? Possibly because he was playing in the same offense for 5 seasons, had Torrey Smith, Jacoby Jones, and AnQuan Boldin for a few years, the same running back for a few years who was productive, and the offensive line had a solid run.

None of our positions on offense is even close to on par with that super bowl run. And that is really unfortunate for Flacco. People keep comparing Flacco to players like Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, and Ben Roethlisberger and it is very unfair. None of those guys have a new offensive coordinator every season, new offensive system put in place, and nearly as many targets rotating around him.

Like Steve Smith said Flacco has had to do a lot of thinking because one word in one offense means something else in the other 10 he has been in. Give him a simple system next year Marty and hopefully it is somewhat effective that they can build off of it for the next 2 or 3 years.

Also start spending money on the offense! 

The past two seasons minimum the Ravens invested more money in offense than defense but don't let facts get in the way of a story.

[usmccharles]

26 minutes ago, Hardbaugh said:

The past two seasons minimum the Ravens invested more money in offense than defense but don't let facts get in the way of a story.

That doesn't mean they were good investments, but don't let obvious observations get in the way of a story

[Hardbaugh]

19 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

That doesn't mean they were good investments, 

This we can most definitely agree on. It won't change until the cord gets cut. I wish I could say different, the Ravens may be able to hide the many deficiencies in Joe's game but with the coin he insisted on making via his representative it only undermines his ability to win and compete. The Ravens only have so much cap to go around to give him weapons and protection. Joe is his own worse enemy.

 

Edited January 17 by Hardbaugh

[rmcjacket23]

16 minutes ago, Hardbaugh said:

This we can most definitely agree on. It won't change until the cord gets cut. I wish I could say different, the Ravens may be able to hide the many deficiencies in Joe's game but with the coin he insisted on making via his representative it only undermines his ability to win and compete. The Ravens only have so much cap to go around to give him weapons and protection. Joe is his own worse enemy.

 

LOL, well, the amount that the Ravens have to spend to build a team around Joe (namely weapons and protection) is roughly $145-150M.

Needless to say, I think that's more than enough. If you need more than that to put a quality cast of players around a QB, then it doesn't really matter how good your QB is, because the team is going nowhere.

Now, when you spend a good chunk of that on players who aren't playing well, then you've got yourself a problem. 

That's what Joe's worst enemy is.

The Giants had a QB taking a $24M cap hit on 2016 and wasn't much better than Joe for the season... they still managed to make the playoffs and compete very well in the NFC. 

The Texans had an All-World defensive player who basically didn't play the whole season and a QB that they benched accounting for $27M in cap space, and they still managed to win their division.

This isn't rocket science folks. 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

LOL, well, the amount that the Ravens have to spend to build a team around Joe (namely weapons and protection) is roughly $145-150M.

Needless to say, I think that's more than enough. If you need more than that to put a quality cast of players around a QB, then it doesn't really matter how good your QB is, because the team is going nowhere.

Now, when you spend a good chunk of that on players who aren't playing well, then you've got yourself a problem. 

That's what Joe's worst enemy is.

The Giants had a QB taking a $24M cap hit on 2016 and wasn't much better than Joe for the season... they still managed to make the playoffs and compete very well in the NFC. 

The Texans had an All-World defensive player who basically didn't play the whole season and a QB that they benched accounting for $27M in cap space, and they still managed to win their division.

This isn't rocket science folks. 

I know we're coming off a heart breaking season... but why are people acting like we're so far off?

Making statements like we cant field a contender with Joe's salary?? Can anyone really say with a straight face we're that far behind Pittsburgh? We mopped the floor with them once and wouldve a 2nd time if not for a 4th qtr collapse on defense.... and they're in the AFCCG.

THE AFCCG PEOPLE! 

Is there anyone that can tell me with a straight face that we couldnt have beat Miami in the WC Round and then beat the Chiefs given the performance they put up?

 

I'm not saying it's perfect, or that all is rosy. There's plenty not to like, and plenty to be fixed. And that only furthers my point... with all the flaws that we've pointed out time and again, we're still just a couple inches behind the team thats in the AFCCG this coming weekend.

So - we dont even necessarily have to fix all the flaws. If we improve, we should be in a good spot again. And we will. We've got about $16m in cap space right now; with another $10-15m likely to come off the books in the offseason. With $20-30m in cap space we should be to resign the guys we want, make the additions we want, and with any luck we'll get contributions from drafted players along with other guys currently on the roster stepping up/improving... and we'll be right back contending next year.

 

With literally no run game to speak of, and an incredibly inconsistent pass rush we're literally about as even as can be with the team in the AFCCG right now. Right.... but we cant ever win with this QB and his salary. GIVE ME A BREAK

[trevorsteadman]

48 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

I know we're coming off a heart breaking season... but why are people acting like we're so far off?

Making statements like we cant field a contender with Joe's salary?? Can anyone really say with a straight face we're that far behind Pittsburgh? We mopped the floor with them once and wouldve a 2nd time if not for a 4th qtr collapse on defense.... and they're in the AFCCG.

THE AFCCG PEOPLE! 

Is there anyone that can tell me with a straight face that we couldnt have beat Miami in the WC Round and then beat the Chiefs given the performance they put up?

 

I'm not saying it's perfect, or that all is rosy. There's plenty not to like, and plenty to be fixed. And that only furthers my point... with all the flaws that we've pointed out time and again, we're still just a couple inches behind the team thats in the AFCCG this coming weekend.

So - we dont even necessarily have to fix all the flaws. If we improve, we should be in a good spot again. And we will. We've got about $16m in cap space right now; with another $10-15m likely to come off the books in the offseason. With $20-30m in cap space we should be to resign the guys we want, make the additions we want, and with any luck we'll get contributions from drafted players along with other guys currently on the roster stepping up/improving... and we'll be right back contending next year.

 

With literally no run game to speak of, and an incredibly inconsistent pass rush we're literally about as even as can be with the team in the AFCCG right now. Right.... but we cant ever win with this QB and his salary. GIVE ME A BREAK

Well said. The Ravens were a blade of grass away from being in the playoffs. 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

6 hours ago, trevorsteadman said:

I am also one of those battling off the trolls on these forums. These are probably the same people who thought Flacco was the best quarterback in the league after his super bowl run. Fans sway so fast it is rediculous. Fact is there hasn't been continuity in years on the offense. Why do people think Flacco went off when he did? Possibly because he was playing in the same offense for 5 seasons, had Torrey Smith, Jacoby Jones, and AnQuan Boldin for a few years, the same running back for a few years who was productive, and the offensive line had a solid run.

None of our positions on offense is even close to on par with that super bowl run. And that is really unfortunate for Flacco. People keep comparing Flacco to players like Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, and Ben Roethlisberger and it is very unfair. None of those guys have a new offensive coordinator every season, new offensive system put in place, and nearly as many targets rotating around him.

Like Steve Smith said Flacco has had to do a lot of thinking because one word in one offense means something else in the other 10 he has been in. Give him a simple system next year Marty and hopefully it is somewhat effective that they can build off of it for the next 2 or 3 years.

Also start spending money on the offense! 

To the point on system and OC... I've been saying this for years. I point to Bree's taking off in NO as one example. 

But how quickly everyone forgets Haleys first year in Pitt. Remember that dumpster fire??

there was supposedly infighting. Big Ben hated it. There was no cohesion. But now he's been in it a while and they're one of the most explosive offenses. 

Yes talent has helped. But it's also a lot easier to draft and develop talent when you have a consistent system in place. You know what skill sets work in which very defined roles. 

NE knows exactly what Brady needs. A big athletic TE, a shifty quick precise route runner, a scat type back, etc...

Brees wants a big, athletic jump ball TE, a big tall jump ball WR, and a fast route runner. 

 

We haven't had an offensive philosophy for Joe to grow in and know like the back of his hand, or for the FO to identify a prototype in terms of physical and technical attributes to plug into the specific roles needed for success. 

Its a lot easier to find a successful WR when youre looking for him to fill a specific role than it is to find WRs that can be successful in any offense in any role because youre fairly certain he'll be playing in multiple offenses under multiple OCs on his rookie deal alone. 

Much easier for the Pats to find an Edelman and for Edelman to have success in that role, than it is to find a Julio, AB, Megatron, Odell type guy that'll be good no matter where they play. 

The Pats can pick guys like Lewis and White off trees bc they know exactly what they need... and those guys can succeed bc they know exactly what will be asked of them and it emphasizes their specific skill set. 

Until we commit to an identity and philosophy on offense Joe's progression will be stunted and we will struggle to draft and develop skill players. Plain and simple. 

[JO_75]

Jamison Hensley reports that B-Will may get more money than what we are willing to pay and may end up letting him go. Have to admit, I'd rather keep Wagner over Williams. If the goal of the off-season is to beef up our Offensive Line than keeping Wagner may be higher priority than Williams. We just can't let both walk, gotta keep one. Just so hard to know which one it will be. I just hope we are able to get a deal done with one of them before FA just like the Jets just signed Brian Winters to a new contract.

http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/353619/ravens-to-let-nt-brandon-williams-walk-as-fa?ls=roto:BAL:topheadlines

[usmccharles]

20 minutes ago, JO_75 said:

Jamison Hensley reports that B-Will may get more money than what we are willing to pay and may end up letting him go. Have to admit, I'd rather keep Wagner over Williams. If the goal of the off-season is to beef up our Offensive Line than keeping Wagner may be higher priority than Williams. We just can't let both walk, gotta keep one. Just so hard to know which one it will be. I just hope we are able to get a deal done with one of them before FA just like the Jets just signed Brian Winters to a new contract.

http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/353619/ravens-to-let-nt-brandon-williams-walk-as-fa?ls=roto:BAL:topheadlines

My buddy just asked me about what i think about Bwill hitting FA.  I said im more than ok with it considering how well we draft DL and develop them, IF we retain Wagner.  Keeping our OL together is very important. 

[SuRihtanil]

I am sure gonna get thumbs down for this but its how I feel.  Cut Watson, Cut K Lewis, Cut Arrington(obvious reasons), Cut Webb it will free up much needed money and he isn't worth the contract. Also Cut Dumervil 2017 is his last contract year will free up quite a bit of extra money.  We drafted Matt Judon and honestly when he got to play he stepped up to the plate I thought he looked better as pure pass rusher than Suggs or Dumervil.  Pitta on the other hand will cost 6.6 mil dead cap over next couple of seasons cutting him may not be idea(Plus I thought Pitta played well).

 

Honestly I believe strongly all of these players will be cut for sure around free agency kick off.  Correct me if I am wrong here but with these out 15+ million in cap space? This not counting Smith retiring, the Ravens will have enough space to go out and sign some solid talent.  I just hope Joe Flacco will consider another restructure... I mean come on man help the team out, atleast look at 15-16 mil per season.  If Joe Flacco would do that the Ravens will be able to have a very good offseason on top of the other hopeful possibilities.

Edited January 18 by SuRihtanil

[PurpleCity5]

10 hours ago, VermontRaven said:

While I agree with you that we miss KO and Lewis wasn't as good as KO, I think we are not giving Lewis enough credit.  He was a 4th round pick in his rookie year.  I haven't went back and compared, but if we compared KO year 1 vs. Lewis year 1, my guess is that they would be pretty comparable (anyone feel free to chime in here if they have actually reviewed tape to compare).  I am hopeful that Lewis turns into a KO-type player, but that is yet to be seen.  I was happy with what I saw from him (Lewis) and hope he continues to progress next year.  We have him on a rookie contract and if he continues to progress, we are going to have one heck of a value at LG for a few years!

I'm not saying that Lewis did a bad job or anything of that nature, but the fact of the matter is that while letting go of KO was the right choice, that certainly doesn't mean that we didn't pay the price for it. It's not about what Alex Lewis did in year 1 vs KO in year 1, its Alex Lewis in year 1 vs KO in year 4 because that's where KO left off. That's the level of play you're trying to replace. 

Lewis did very well in pass protection, but as a run blocker I wasn't blown away, but the expectation is that he will hopefully grow there. And I don't think he's going anywhere, its either Zuttah only, or both Zuttah and Wagner with Lewis either staying at LG or moving to RT. 

Overall I certainly think Lewis did very well, but what we missed from him was that monstrous run blocking that we got from KO. I'm not attacking Lewis, but the fact of that matter is that we did pay the price for someone we didn't want to pay. It's very similar to Pernell McPhee leaving, yes, not paying McPhee was the right choice, but that doesn't mean we don't miss him. Everything that McPhee is as a player is exactly what we're missing here, but is that a direct knock on Judon/Smith? No, because that's just what happens when you lose good players. 

[PurpleCity5]

10 hours ago, Purple_Polo89 said:

Here's the line next year...starting with LT and moving down: Stanley, Lewis, either Jensen or Urschel as the center, poppa Marshal, and Wagner if he stays. The two dark horses are Center and RT. Not sure who replaces Wagner wether a vet or rookie but I know for a fact Zuttah is gone. He's been a headache the last 2 years with these holding calls.

 

yeah I do miss KO a bunch but Alex Lewis was getting pretty high grades up until he got hurt.

I don't think the Ravens settle with Jensen or Urschel at C. If they were good enough they would've replaced Zuttah when he had that awful stretch. They talked about building a strong and physical front and didn't mention Urschel or Jensen once. 

I think Wagner staying depends entirely on Brandon Williams, if the Ravens can keep him at a good price then Wagner is gone. 

[usmccharles]

Just now, PurpleCity5 said:

I don't think the Ravens settle with Jensen or Urschel at C. If they were good enough they would've replaced Zuttah when he had that awful stretch. They talked about building a strong and physical front and didn't mention Urschel or Jensen once. 

I think Wagner staying depends entirely on Brandon Williams, if the Ravens can keep him at a good price then Wagner is gone. 

I cant remember, are you in the keep Wagner or keep Bwill train?