Next Up: Ravens Free Agents--Who goes? Who stays?

[January J]

23 hours ago, hereweare said:

Agree on both statements. While I think an efficient route runner and chain moving WR along side Perriman sounds better than Wallace and Perriman... It is possible that a significantly improved run game would eliminate the constant 2 high safeties look we got all season long and we could see more of a deep threat Wallace next season?

No doubt- let's hope they figured that out.

Edited January 12 by January J

[PurpleCity5]

9 hours ago, allblackraven said:

I figure Pierce would be fine, especially if he gets more help than BW had this season. Williams might be priority for FO but I seriously doubt they are prepared to pay his market value, which is $11M/year.

I thought of that way when looking at Pierce at the start of the year but he faded away badly down the stretch, hard to put all that on him. 

I don't know what Brandon Williams market value is at the moment, but $11M per year? I don't know about that, I know the cap is rising but I really would like to see a team pay Williams $11M per year for a run stuffing NT who faded down the stretch. We'll see what it is but I don't think he's getting $11M on the market but I could be wrong. 

[allblackraven]

7 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

I thought of that way when looking at Pierce at the start of the year but he faded away badly down the stretch, hard to put all that on him. 

I don't know what Brandon Williams market value is at the moment, but $11M per year? I don't know about that, I know the cap is rising but I really would like to see a team pay Williams $11M per year for a run stuffing NT who faded down the stretch. We'll see what it is but I don't think he's getting $11M on the market but I could be wrong. 

Just a figure from Spotrac http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/brandon-williams-12375/market-value/

I think it's too much but it sure won't be $6M

[PurpleCity5]

3 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

Just a figure from Spotrac http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/brandon-williams-12375/market-value/

I think it's too much but it sure won't be $6M

How accurate are they on a year to year basis? $11M is way too high and I doubt the Ravens will pay that price for a NT. The Ravens did say KO was a priority when they kept Yanda, but in the end they bowed down to the Market. I know if the same applies here but we all knew that KO was getting more than what the Ravens offered him. 

I really don't think that's what he's going to get, but if that's the case then I don't think the Ravens will be paying that price. 

[PurpleCity5]

4 hours ago, Club Sec. 217 Seat 2 said:

See here is the thing...Zuttah was and may still be a serviceable or decent NFL player but if we really want this offense to take the next step, we can't afford to have our center be just a serviceable/decent NFL player...we need to get an above average good to great center and I think it would be huge for this team.  So many times watching us play this year I felt like that was a common theme in my head.."Man if we had a good center it would do wonders for this offense"...I just don't think Zuttah is getting the job done anymore he does not hold his blocks and gets beat easily

For sure, FA doesn't offer a great center so that's going to have to come via the draft. I think you're going to have a good couple of options at C with Pocic, Elfien and Toth. Trade could be an option as well, we did trade for Zuttah so we might do the same, but I think what the team is looking for is a mauler and a good player at C. All the great OLs have a great or elite center. Runs up the middle is the most common run so you need to have a physical and bulldozing C if you want to run a man/gap scheme which is the team's desire. 

I think Wagner leaving might be a bit justified. All  the great OLs are proficient in three area's, LT, Guard, and C. RT is usually the weak spot for teams like Dallas, New Orleans, Pittsburgh, and Oakland. All those teams have a great OL but their weak link is RT. 

I think the Ravens are going after a LG and I think Ron Leary, TJ Lang, and Kevin Zietler could be guys they are looking at. 

Edited January 12 by PurpleCity5

[allblackraven]

40 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

How accurate are they on a year to year basis? $11M is way too high and I doubt the Ravens will pay that price for a NT. The Ravens did say KO was a priority when they kept Yanda, but in the end they bowed down to the Market. I know if the same applies here but we all knew that KO was getting more than what the Ravens offered him. 

I really don't think that's what he's going to get, but if that's the case then I don't think the Ravens will be paying that price. 

That stuff is new on Spotrac, so no history to check but we usually undervalue our guys in FA - they are getting much more than we think they should get or Ozzie is prepared to sign, although BW might be one of the guys the Ravens really like (Webb, Pitta....) and keep him. We'll see I guess.

[rmcjacket23]

1 hour ago, allblackraven said:

Just a figure from Spotrac http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/brandon-williams-12375/market-value/

I think it's too much but it sure won't be $6M

They did a horrific job on that market value analysis.

Easy way to tell is to look at the players they used to compare to. If there's one thing we know, its that teams pay up for DT's who can pass rush. The problem is... Williams doesn't pass rush.

Geno Atkins signed his deal in 2013, coming off a 12.5 sack season and an 8 sack season. Marcell Dareus signed his in 2015 coming off seasons of 7 and 9 sacks. He averaged about 7 a year the first four years. 

Those guys are averaging more sacks in a season than Williams has his entire career. 

Brockers is a fair comparison, as is Liuget. They are right there in that $10-11M range. Damon Harrison is pretty much the perfect comp... he's a run stopper only who was converted from a 3-4 NT to a 4-3 DT. He signed for between $9-10M. 

$10M range is pretty accurate I'd say. Damon Harrison money with a one year inflation increase puts him right around $10M a year. Would be stunned if he's getting anything like Dareus, who's one of the higher paid and best overall DTs in the league.

[jboy19]

Gregg Rosenthal of NFL.com thinks that Wagner could get 10mil/season. I think that's a nightmare scenario, but considering the lack of decent offensive linemen in the market, the success of teams with good lines, and the amount of cap space teams have, it's definitely not impossible. 

[rmw10]

1 minute ago, jboy19 said:

Gregg Rosenthal of NFL.com thinks that Wagner could get 10mil/season. I think that's a nightmare scenario, but considering the lack of decent offensive linemen in the market, the success of teams with good lines, and the amount of cap space teams have, it's definitely not impossible. 

I think that'd be insane, but you never know.  I'd argue that Schwartz had a better season leading into his FA, but he did have a little more competition out there.  I just think Wagner at $10M would be such a huge jump that it's crazy.

[jboy19]

2 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

I think that'd be insane, but you never know.  I'd argue that Schwartz had a better season leading into his FA, but he did have a little more competition out there.  I just think Wagner at $10M would be such a huge jump that it's crazy.

I gave up on predicting OL contracts when the left guard who never played a full season got 12mil/year. 

[rmcjacket23]

Just now, jboy19 said:

Gregg Rosenthal of NFL.com thinks that Wagner could get 10mil/season. I think that's a nightmare scenario, but considering the lack of decent offensive linemen in the market, the success of teams with good lines, and the amount of cap space teams have, it's definitely not impossible. 

If he does, it will be because a team thinks he can play LT for them. 

Frankly, the offensive lineman market isn't that weak either. I would say the LT market is very weak this year in FA, but RT has some viable starters in it as of now. That could change if teams resign their own guys, but as has become typical this time of year, most players heading to FA at least try to test the waters a bit. 

[atomicfront]

On 1/11/2017 at 11:42 AM, atomicfront said:

Here are the cap savings if we cut the player (in millions)...Who do you cut? 

Dummervil 6
Wallace 5.75
Webb 5.5
Wright 2.6 
Zuttah 2.4
Watson 3
Pitta 3.3
Arrington 2.1 
Lewis 1.8
 

 

Merged into a unrelated thread.  The moderators on this site have to be the worst on the Internet.. 

[jboy19]

8 minutes ago, atomicfront said:

 

Merged into a unrelated thread.  The moderators on this site have to be the worst on the Internet.. 

I only cut Dumervil, Wright, Watson, Arrington on that list. 

[Adreme]

1 hour ago, PurpleCity5 said:

How accurate are they on a year to year basis? $11M is way too high and I doubt the Ravens will pay that price for a NT. The Ravens did say KO was a priority when they kept Yanda, but in the end they bowed down to the Market. I know if the same applies here but we all knew that KO was getting more than what the Ravens offered him. 

I really don't think that's what he's going to get, but if that's the case then I don't think the Ravens will be paying that price. 

The Ravens offered a crazy high contrast to KO but the problem is there was a team in position to overpay so there was nothing they could do.

[Moderator 3]

2 hours ago, atomicfront said:

 

Merged into a unrelated thread.  The moderators on this site have to be the worst on the Internet.. 

Or merged into the pinned thread on who to keep, who to lose in Free Agency (where you should have posted). 

[rossihunter2]

2 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

How accurate are they on a year to year basis? $11M is way too high and I doubt the Ravens will pay that price for a NT. The Ravens did say KO was a priority when they kept Yanda, but in the end they bowed down to the Market. I know if the same applies here but we all knew that KO was getting more than what the Ravens offered him. 

I really don't think that's what he's going to get, but if that's the case then I don't think the Ravens will be paying that price. 

Considering snacks Harrison got something similar I don't think that figure is far off what it will end up being

[PurpleCity5]

1 hour ago, Adreme said:

The Ravens offered a crazy high contrast to KO but the problem is there was a team in position to overpay so there was nothing they could do.

It wasn't worth it but hey, in the end it is what it is. 

[PurpleCity5]

26 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

Considering snacks Harrison got something similar I don't think that figure is far off what it will end up being

I don't think the Ravens are prepared to pay $11M for BW. Snacks is a good comparison since they're very similar players, Snacks was/is a bit better against the run than Williams, we'll see what happens. Just because the Ravens made him a priority doesn't mean they'll keep him. 

[allblackraven]

2 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

They did a horrific job on that market value analysis.

Easy way to tell is to look at the players they used to compare to. If there's one thing we know, its that teams pay up for DT's who can pass rush. The problem is... Williams doesn't pass rush.

Geno Atkins signed his deal in 2013, coming off a 12.5 sack season and an 8 sack season. Marcell Dareus signed his in 2015 coming off seasons of 7 and 9 sacks. He averaged about 7 a year the first four years. 

Those guys are averaging more sacks in a season than Williams has his entire career. 

Brockers is a fair comparison, as is Liuget. They are right there in that $10-11M range. Damon Harrison is pretty much the perfect comp... he's a run stopper only who was converted from a 3-4 NT to a 4-3 DT. He signed for between $9-10M. 

$10M range is pretty accurate I'd say. Damon Harrison money with a one year inflation increase puts him right around $10M a year. Would be stunned if he's getting anything like Dareus, who's one of the higher paid and best overall DTs in the league.

So, if they missed by roughly 10% compared to your analysis, how is that "horrific job"?

[rmcjacket23]

3 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

So, if they missed by roughly 10% compared to your analysis, how is that "horrific job"?

16% actually, and if you compared it strictly to Damon Harrison's contract only, its more than that.

Guessing something with a deviation range of 15-20% isn't exactly a good thing nor something that be impressed by. 

I think just about anybody on these boards (and there's obviously some highly unintelligent people on here) could mostly guess a 15-20% deviation range of just about anybodies contract.

Its the equivalent of me describing somebody as 6 feet tall and they're really closer to 5 feet tall...

Edited January 12 by rmcjacket23

[redlobster]

3 hours ago, jboy19 said:

Gregg Rosenthal of NFL.com thinks that Wagner could get 10mil/season. I think that's a nightmare scenario, but considering the lack of decent offensive linemen in the market, the success of teams with good lines, and the amount of cap space teams have, it's definitely not impossible. 

Hello 3rd round comp in 2018 draft then, maybe two 3rd round comps if Wagner really gets that $$ and Williams does as well.

Edited January 12 by redlobster

[jboy19]

11 minutes ago, redlobster said:

Hello 3rd round comp in 2018 draft then, maybe two 3rd round comps if Wagner really gets that $$ and Williams does as well.

I think it's definitely possible. Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer to keep Wagner, but with left tackles and now guards getting larger and larger contracts. It's only a matter of time until right tackles start getting their piece. Teams are desperate for OL help. Thats why even mediocre guards like J.R. Sweeney are getting almost 7mil/year. 

[allblackraven]

2 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

16% actually, and if you compared it strictly to Damon Harrison's contract only, its more than that.

Guessing something with a deviation range of 15-20% isn't exactly a good thing nor something that be impressed by. 

I think just about anybody on these boards (and there's obviously some highly unintelligent people on here) could mostly guess a 15-20% deviation range of just about anybodies contract.

Its the equivalent of me describing somebody as 6 feet tall and they're really closer to 5 feet tall...

Yep but that's 16% off from your number, not from the actual market value, so we'll see in couple months

[usmccharles]

5 hours ago, Adreme said:

The Ravens offered a crazy high contrast to KO but the problem is there was a team in position to overpay so there was nothing they could do.

And this people,  is what controls market value,  which somehow people. Don't understand

[rmcjacket23]

46 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

Yep but that's 16% off from your number, not from the actual market value, so we'll see in couple months

Well realistically its more than 20% off from an actual market value that we have from last year. 

Frankly the fact that they didn't even use Damon Harrison as a comp is just mind blowing to me. They're practically identical players. 

[RavensDieHard21]

I really don't think there are going to be any big names that we will sign this year like acquiring Weddle and Wallace last year. I'm hoping there are some surprise cuts, but the slated FA are not very enticing. Only one I'd like is Trumaine Johnson and he likely is getting paid by LA since they opted to let Jenkins walk. 

[PurpleCity5]

4 hours ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

I really don't think there are going to be any big names that we will sign this year like acquiring Weddle and Wallace last year. I'm hoping there are some surprise cuts, but the slated FA are not very enticing. Only one I'd like is Trumaine Johnson and he likely is getting paid by LA since they opted to let Jenkins walk. 

I think we'll make some signings, we won't make a splash unless we lose both Wagner and Williams to FA but I think we'll make some solid signings. I anticipate we add a Vet WR, LG, and maybe a pass rusher.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

It's very possible Barwin gets cut in Philly. They can save something like $7m by cutting him. Said he'd be willing to restructure but he's just not a fit for their wide 9.

Hes 30 and coming off a bad year so could be affordable. And not too far removed from a highly productive year from a pass rush perspective in a 3-4. 

Not exactly getting younger, but I'd keep an eye on that if we cut Doom... or even as a reasonable FA add if we keep Doom and aren't going to spend a high pick. 

We need fresh quality edge rushers... and I want Judon getting more snaps, but Suggs and Doom are only going to be able to handle less and less snaps - plus Barwin isn't bad against the run. 

Itd give us a pretty solid rotation - and if we could get him for 2-3 years, $7-12m I'd be intrigued. 

Edited January 13 by BOLDnPurPnBlacK

[trevorsteadman]

7 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

It's very possible Barwin gets cut in Philly. They can save something like $7m by cutting him. Said he'd be willing to restructure but he's just not a fit for their wide 9.

Hes 30 and coming off a bad year so could be affordable. And not too far removed from a highly productive year from a pass rush perspective in a 3-4. 

Not exactly getting younger, but I'd keep an eye on that if we cut Doom... or even as a reasonable FA add if we keep Doom and aren't going to spend a high pick. 

We need fresh quality edge rushers... and I want Judon getting more snaps, but Suggs and Doom are only going to be able to handle less and less snaps - plus Barwin isn't bad against the run. 

Itd give us a pretty solid rotation - and if we could get him for 2-3 years, $7-12m I'd be intrigued. 

I was thinking about the similar situation. I could see the team trying to get a couple years younger for about the same price. Especially when him coming back from that achilles injury. I definitely see Suggs as the safer person to stay, even though he is older his production has a higher and safer floor than Dumervil does at this stage. Plus You cannot say no to Suggs ability to stop the run.

[terrynjulia03]

Honestly we're not paying BWill 10M per. And Wagner isn't going to offered more than 6m per. The top 5 RTs contracts in the past 2 years are in the 5.8-6.5 range. You can throw out Mr.10m because he's already slated to play LT. Wagner played on one of the lower graded OLs last year and honestly he didn't play above and beyond either. If he gets offered more than 6 per year, let him walk.