Next Up: Ravens Free Agents--Who goes? Who stays?

[trevorsteadman]

34 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Daryl Smith didnt play half as well as last year as Orr did this year.

And, the end of 2015 Orr was already coming on - playing more and more, better and better. So, it's not like a 1 year surprise thing. They see him in practice every day... they know what he is. Just like they knew what Aiken truly was, and why they didnt go all out trying to extend him. If they do it for Orr, I trust is justified.

Im just saying, when they do feel its justified, id like to see us be more aggressive. If you think he truly is this guy we saw, then try and lock him up for average #2 LB money.

Obviously i trust the organization and coaches either way. But i think theres a lot more evidence to Orr's performance being a legitimate sample of who he is (earning playing time his first year, starter 2nd year... unlike Aiken who bounced around for year before getting noticed... and Orr stood out in a lineup of great players; Aiken only stood out with nobodies) which is why im of this opinion. If they dont think so... i wont call it a mistake or anything.

 

I will however if in a year we lose him in FA and he goes on to be a dominant ILB for another team and we couldve had him below market value for a while. Kind of like losing McPhee - if there was a chance to lock him up for 3-5 years early on, it shouldve been done. Hindsight makes it easy to say that, but thats the case. If we couldve locked KO up 2 years ago well below market value - it would be great right now.

So making these preemptive strikes in the right situations could be the difference between us retaining more of our best, young players... and watching them walk away to the highest bidder. Locking them up before they have that huge, breakout, season where they become household names.

Yes Daryl Smith played poorly but he hasn't done anything since really on Bucs either. Age came up on him. But looking at players that are average at best come in and perform well at ILB recently such as Ellerbe, Bynes, McClain, McClellan, etc. Not many have looked too terrible. Yes Orr had a better year than any of them and I want the team to retain them and I would be thrilled if they resigned him now. It would be a smart move if they knew he could keep that production up. 

I would trust the coaches and front office's decision as well and I could see it going either way. I think it is smart especially since the team has some cap room this year to extend some players before they head out the door. I am on board with retaining current players instead of going out and finding replacements because often the replacements take 1-2 years to get to full speed in the new system and personnel around them. 

It would be nice if the team could look into the future and see what Orr's career holds. 

[atomicfront]

Here are the cap savings if we cut the player (in millions)...Who do you cut? 

Dummervil 6
Wallace 5.75
Webb 5.5
Wright 2.6 
Zuttah 2.4
Watson 3
Pitta 3.3
Arrington 2.1 
Lewis 1.8
 

[redrum52]

Keep or extend Wallace.  Try to work out a new deal with Webb, Pitta and Doom.  Doesn't work I'd let them go.

[rossihunter2]

Keep Wallace, see if Webby will renegotiate again, keep Watson and maybe pitta

cut everyone else, maybe shareece stays as hopefully the 4th/5th corner but that's a lot of money for someone you don't want to see the field

[ellicottraven]

18 minutes ago, atomicfront said:

Here are the cap savings if we cut the player (in millions)...Who do you cut? 

Dummervil 6
Wallace 5.75
Webb 5.5
Wright 2.6 
Zuttah 2.4
Watson 3
Pitta 3.3
Arrington 2.1 
Lewis 1.8
 

Keep or extend Wallace. Keep Zuttah (for depth). Renogiate and if unwilling or unacceptable terms then release Dumervil, Pitta, Watson and Webb. Dumervil can be potent if healthy and a great pass rushing option so try really hard to keep him. As for Pitta if he agrees to a good salary cut then keep him or release him. Same with Webb and Watson. Watson and Pitta are important depending on how the coaches feel about Maxx Williams and his development. As for the rest release them now!

[PurpleCity5]

Only guy I would keep is pretty much Webb and Wallace. Webb is solid, not anything special but he gives you stability back there. We can't afford to lose another WR so Mike Wallace stays. 

[usmccharles]

Pay-cuts = Doom, Webb

Cut- Pitta, Zuttah, Watson

TE could be an issue for us, well kind of is.  Pitta caught a lot of passes but they were mostly checkdowns.  Gillmore who I had high hopes for, cant stay healthy.  Maxx cant stay healthy.  Boyle is a beast....because of PEDs.  Waller I would love to see get worked in more.  Basically all question marks but I don't think you can justify Pitta's cost, most likely would have to keep Watson.  

Arrington and Lewis im not too familiar with their play this year, but depth is always needed at DB. 

Doom and Judon rotating could be huge for us.  I don't think Judon can take on that role just yet. 

[rossihunter2]

12 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Arrington and Lewis im not too familiar with their play this year, but depth is always needed at DB.

i dont think either played a snap - and neither looked good when they played in 2015 either

[K-Dog]

First things first, I  am going to want to have upgraded replacements waiting in the wings before I make any decisions on cutting. 

[usmccharles]

9 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

i dont think either played a snap - and neither looked good when they played in 2015 either

Then cutting them I would be ok with. 

[redrum52]

5 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Pay-cuts = Doom, Webb

Cut- Pitta, Zuttah, Watson

TE could be an issue for us, well kind of is.  Pitta caught a lot of passes but they were mostly checkdowns.  Gillmore who I had high hopes for, cant stay healthy.  Maxx cant stay healthy.  Boyle is a beast....because of PEDs.  Waller I would love to see get worked in more.  Basically all question marks but I don't think you can justify Pitta's cost, most likely would have to keep Watson.  

Arrington and Lewis im not too familiar with their play this year, but depth is always needed at DB. 

Doom and Judon rotating could be huge for us.  I don't think Judon can take on that role just yet. 

That's because they didnt play... lol.. 

 

I'd like to see us trade that dreaded 2nd round pick for a position of need.

[terrynjulia03]

2 hours ago, trevorsteadman said:

Yes Daryl Smith played poorly but he hasn't done anything since really on Bucs either. Age came up on him. But looking at players that are average at best come in and perform well at ILB recently such as Ellerbe, Bynes, McClain, McClellan, etc. Not many have looked too terrible. Yes Orr had a better year than any of them and I want the team to retain them and I would be thrilled if they resigned him now. It would be a smart move if they knew he could keep that production up. 

I would trust the coaches and front office's decision as well and I could see it going either way. I think it is smart especially since the team has some cap room this year to extend some players before they head out the door. I am on board with retaining current players instead of going out and finding replacements because often the replacements take 1-2 years to get to full speed in the new system and personnel around them. 

It would be nice if the team could look into the future and see what Orr's career holds. 

DSmith came from the Jags. Not the Bucs. And it's already been stated Orr is a RFA. He'll be here next year as I doubt anyone's gonna give up a 2nd rounder for him. 

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

 

2 hours ago, atomicfront said:

Here are the cap savings if we cut the player (in millions)...Who do you cut? 

Dummervil 6
Wallace 5.75
Webb 5.5
Wright 2.6 
Zuttah 2.4
Watson 3
Pitta 3.3
Arrington 2.1 
Lewis 1.8
 

Keep:

Pitta: Joe has continuity with him

Wallace: Proved he can still play had over 1000 yards with Joe throwing to him.

Keep if price is right:

Dummervil: if totally healthy can still be disruptive

Cut and save / get younger talent: 

Webb: Secondary needs an up-grade to compliment Weddle.

Wright: Too many times watching him get burnt

Zuttah: Time to get younger and stronger

Watson: We have enough TE's

Arrington : I think it would not be hard for Oz to find a better tallent for less $

Lewis

Younger tallent can be had at a more cap friendly price.

 

 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

58 minutes ago, ALSKAN RAVEN FAN said:

 

Keep:

Pitta: Joe has continuity with him

Wallace: Proved he can still play had over 1000 yards with Joe throwing to him.

Keep if price is right:

Dummervil: if totally healthy can still be disruptive

Cut and save / get younger talent: 

Webb: Secondary needs an up-grade to compliment Weddle.

Wright: Too many times watching him get burnt

Zuttah: Time to get younger and stronger

Watson: We have enough TE's

Arrington : I think it would not be hard for Oz to find a better tallent for less $

Lewis

Younger tallent can be had at a more cap friendly price.

 

 

I dont think anyone will argue cutting Zuttah, Watson, Arrington, or Lewis. All need to get the axe.

I thought for sure Doom would be gone, but with the injury news and the fact that they were kinda vague on pass rush being a priority in the presser... maybe theyre planning on trying to keep him. I wouldnt mind if hes willing to restructure - the injury was probably much worse than we though. But i dont think we can bring him back at his current cap hit.

Wallace: I'd keep, and maybe extend. Add another 1-2 years and maybe lower this coming years hit by $2mill or so.

Webb: I'd like to keep him honestly. He played well enough, especially down the stretch. And im not a fan of creating holes where there are none. There isnt an upgrade on the roster, and i dont see us spending a top pick on one. Get him to restructure again and lower the hit by a couple million if possible.

Wright: I dont know. We need depth and hes Jimmy's best friend. Try to negotiate a pay cut... probably some leverage there because he likely wants to be here and after the season he had - he's prob not getting close to what hes currently making on the FA market. Lower his hit and keep him or move on.

Pitta is the most difficult for me. He's Joe's security blanket... which is a good thing and a bad thing. You want to keep Joe's weapons and he definitely proved he can still play, but i dont think hes worth the money. I want to get Maxx on the field, Gillmore if healthy is solid, Boyle can be good, and Waller improved. There's so much depth here, if anyone can step up and come close to Pitta's production i think you have to cut him. Force Joe out of his comfort zone and develop chemistry with other guys. Love him as a player and as a person, but i just think we need the cap space more.

[rmw10]

7 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

I dont think anyone will argue cutting Zuttah, Watson, Arrington, or Lewis. All need to get the axe.

I thought for sure Doom would be gone, but with the injury news and the fact that they were kinda vague on pass rush being a priority in the presser... maybe theyre planning on trying to keep him. I wouldnt mind if hes willing to restructure - the injury was probably much worse than we though. But i dont think we can bring him back at his current cap hit.

Wallace: I'd keep, and maybe extend. Add another 1-2 years and maybe lower this coming years hit by $2mill or so.

Webb: I'd like to keep him honestly. He played well enough, especially down the stretch. And im not a fan of creating holes where there are none. There isnt an upgrade on the roster, and i dont see us spending a top pick on one. Get him to restructure again and lower the hit by a couple million if possible.

Wright: I dont know. We need depth and hes Jimmy's best friend. Try to negotiate a pay cut... probably some leverage there because he likely wants to be here and after the season he had - he's prob not getting close to what hes currently making on the FA market. Lower his hit and keep him or move on.

Pitta is the most difficult for me. He's Joe's security blanket... which is a good thing and a bad thing. You want to keep Joe's weapons and he definitely proved he can still play, but i dont think hes worth the money. I want to get Maxx on the field, Gillmore if healthy is solid, Boyle can be good, and Waller improved. There's so much depth here, if anyone can step up and come close to Pitta's production i think you have to cut him. Force Joe out of his comfort zone and develop chemistry with other guys. Love him as a player and as a person, but i just think we need the cap space more.

I don't think it's a good thing when the owner calls you out for playing poorly.  There may be a slim chance it was a motivational tactic, but more than likely, his time here is coming to an end.

[allblackraven]

11 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

I don't think it's a good thing when the owner calls you out for playing poorly.  There may be a slim chance it was a motivational tactic, but more than likely, his time here is coming to an end.

At least his contract was done in a way that cut isn't prohibitively expensive.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

13 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

I don't think it's a good thing when the owner calls you out for playing poorly.  There may be a slim chance it was a motivational tactic, but more than likely, his time here is coming to an end.

Yea, he was pretty blunt about it too. He wouldnt be bad to have as a 4th guy, but with that price tag we just cant hang on to him for that role. 

[rmw10]

1 minute ago, allblackraven said:

At least his contract was done in a way that cut isn't prohibitively expensive.

Yep.  I think you had to re-sign him based off of what he did in 2015, but you needed that out in case he reverted back to what he was before he came here.  Unfortunately, the latter is what happened, and at least we prepared for that possibility.

[PurpleCity5]

Maybe keeping Brandon Williams had something to do with the way our run D broke down in the last three games of the year. I mean we let Rex Burkhead....REX BURKHEAD of all people run for 100YR and two TDs on us. 

[rossihunter2]

3 hours ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

I dont think anyone will argue cutting Zuttah, Watson, Arrington, or Lewis. All need to get the axe.

I think Watson stays unless his injury hasn't healed - he's essentially on a one year 3million deal to potentially be our lead tight end which is pretty good value - he doesn't create much cap space by cutting him and he's also pretty cheap to keep so i think he probably stays

[rossihunter2]

2 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Maybe keeping Brandon Williams had something to do with the way our run D broke down in the last three games of the year. I mean we let Rex Burkhead....REX BURKHEAD of all people run for 100YR and two TDs on us. 

To be fair, it was a completely meaningless game and Rex burkhead had been running on a lot of teams down the stretch

[RayRayRaven]

2 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Maybe keeping Brandon Williams had something to do with the way our run D broke down in the last three games of the year. I mean we let Rex Burkhead....REX BURKHEAD of all people run for 100YR and two TDs on us. 

Williams gasses out late in games, its because hes too fat.  he has to be fat cuz hes small for a NG. sorry but that is how it is. we better not pay to keep him. we got dozed by phil and the dozers the last four games. anyone that tried to run on us lit us up.  including burkhead who we made a HOF er

20 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

To be fair, it was a completely meaningless game and Rex burkhead had been running on a lot of teams down the stretch

yah, point being we quit, weren't good enough, weren't in the game.  Cincy played with nothing to play for either, perhaps cept their coach. cincy played missing a boodle of their stars.  real stars.   we played like the 2nd rate talent we are and our guys would not play for da coach.  thought this game was important for pride. we played without any

[BmoreBird22]

3 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Maybe keeping Brandon Williams had something to do with the way our run D broke down in the last three games of the year. I mean we let Rex Burkhead....REX BURKHEAD of all people run for 100YR and two TDs on us. 

The only issue I have with this is that Williams was in those games getting pushed back and handled on single player blocks.

[PurpleCity5]

3 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

The only issue I have with this is that Williams was in those games getting pushed back and handled on single player blocks.

Yeah but so did the other guys, I feel the same way but Williams primary strength is run stuffing, lose him and we might take a couple steps back in run D. Jernigan especially was very quiet and Guy over perused plenty of times while failing to attack gaps. I think the entire DL just fell apart but without Williams it makes you really think. 

[TurkishRaven]

I would only cut Watson. Sign a Veteran WR and get younger through draft. Webb and Weedle are a good pair imo. People don't like Zuttah and Wright but I think they are still decent NFL players, keep them for depth unless. 

 

We just need to find a good pass rush and a #2CB in draft. 

[PurpleCity5]

5 hours ago, RayRayRaven said:

Williams gasses out late in games, its because hes too fat.  he has to be fat cuz hes small for a NG. sorry but that is how it is. we better not pay to keep him. we got dozed by phil and the dozers the last four games. anyone that tried to run on us lit us up.  including burkhead who we made a HOF er

I think he was just gassed, it's just natural for a guy his size and it's not new, plenty of DTs, and NTs lack stamina. I think the lack of a substitute inside at DT did effect his play a bit since he began to play a lot of snaps late in the season. 

I personally prefer Wagner over Williams but the other guys on the DL didn't do a great job either, Timmy Jernigan didn't even record a stat against Pit, not a sack or a tackle in his final three games of the season, and Lawrence Guy took a step back as well. Honestly, that's a good reason to be concerned about the run game if you let go of Brandon Williams. 

[allblackraven]

1 hour ago, PurpleCity5 said:

I think he was just gassed, it's just natural for a guy his size and it's not new, plenty of DTs, and NTs lack stamina. I think the lack of a substitute inside at DT did effect his play a bit since he began to play a lot of snaps late in the season. 

I personally prefer Wagner over Williams but the other guys on the DL didn't do a great job either, Timmy Jernigan didn't even record a stat against Pit, not a sack or a tackle in his final three games of the season, and Lawrence Guy took a step back as well. Honestly, that's a good reason to be concerned about the run game if you let go of Brandon Williams. 

Davis, Henry, Kaufusi - time to get healthy and step up?

[PurpleCity5]

7 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

Davis, Henry, Kaufusi - time to get healthy and step up?

Those guys have potential but if you're not healthy then you have proven 0 until you hit the field. I don't think any of those guys can be relied upon to fill in Williams, the only guy who I would look towards is Pierce but he faded down the stretch, don't know what happened to him but unless someone steps up in his absence you can't be too confident. 

[allblackraven]

7 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Those guys have potential but if you're not healthy then you have proven 0 until you hit the field. I don't think any of those guys can be relied upon to fill in Williams, the only guy who I would look towards is Pierce but he faded down the stretch, don't know what happened to him but unless someone steps up in his absence you can't be too confident. 

I figure Pierce would be fine, especially if he gets more help than BW had this season. Williams might be priority for FO but I seriously doubt they are prepared to pay his market value, which is $11M/year.

[Club Sec. 217 Seat 2]

8 hours ago, TurkishRaven said:

I would only cut Watson. Sign a Veteran WR and get younger through draft. Webb and Weedle are a good pair imo. People don't like Zuttah and Wright but I think they are still decent NFL players, keep them for depth unless. 

 

We just need to find a good pass rush and a #2CB in draft. 

See here is the thing...Zuttah was and may still be a serviceable or decent NFL player but if we really want this offense to take the next step, we can't afford to have our center be just a serviceable/decent NFL player...we need to get an above average good to great center and I think it would be huge for this team.  So many times watching us play this year I felt like that was a common theme in my head.."Man if we had a good center it would do wonders for this offense"...I just don't think Zuttah is getting the job done anymore he does not hold his blocks and gets beat easily