Next Up: Ravens Free Agents--Who goes? Who stays?

[Davesta]

What's the savings if we cut pitta? He needs to go. Can't block and Joe looks to him too much before anything else can develop. I'm afraid he start again and stall the development of maxx and Waller. 

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

Its all about chemistry bro, we saw the lack of when Boldin walked

[B-more Ravor]

9 hours ago, terrynjulia03 said:

Um barring Johnsons contract, which is as you stated is a LT contract, the top 10 RTs in the league are only making a max of 6m per year. With a bottom level of 5.5m. I think Wagner falls into the top 10, but certainly not the top and no other team is gonna think that either. He comes back in the range of 5.7m a year. Easily. 

 

Also leaving Johnson out, there are 8 RTs making at least $6M/year, 5 of whom are making more than $6M/year.  The two most recent signings were Schwartz ($6.6M/yr) and Cannon ($6.5M/yr).

Most importantly, Wagner is also a FA now, prices always go up when the market opens and there are teams with incredible amounts of Cap to spend.  I don't think it's much of stretch to expect Wagner to make at least $6M/year (whether he deserves to be in that stratosphere or not).

[rossihunter2]

23 minutes ago, B-more Ravor said:

 

Also leaving Johnson out, there are 8 RTs making at least $6M/year, 5 of whom are making more than $6M/year.  The two most recent signings were Schwartz ($6.6M/yr) and Cannon ($6.5M/yr).

Most importantly, Wagner is also a FA now, prices always go up when the market opens and there are teams with incredible amounts of Cap to spend.  I don't think it's much of stretch to expect Wagner to make at least $6M/year (whether he deserves to be in that stratosphere or not).

and it looks like a weak offensive line class this year

[B-more Ravor]

2 hours ago, Davesta said:

What's the savings if we cut pitta? He needs to go. Can't block and Joe looks to him too much before anything else can develop. I'm afraid he start again and stall the development of maxx and Waller. 

 

Savings for Pitta is $3.3M if released before June 1 or $5.5M if released after June 1.

[omar586]

doom, arrington, lewis, watson, wright, zuttah are gone.

 

pitta maybe, he cant block, but he can catch, can we can use him as WR.

 

wagner has to be signed, need to stop turnover at OL postion.

 

i dont know y ppl want cut wallace, we need to stop turnover at the wr position too.

[Passepartout]

Yeah as it is time to clean house with Doom, Arrington, Lewis, Watson, Wright, and Zuttah! Start anew!

[rmw10]

I do begin to wonder with Wallace now that Marty is staying.  I don't think he's a great fit for Marty's offense and his horizontal game.  I still think it's likely he does, but no longer as sure as I was.

[trevorsteadman]

1 hour ago, rmw10 said:

I do begin to wonder with Wallace now that Marty is staying.  I don't think he's a great fit for Marty's offense and his horizontal game.  I still think it's likely he does, but no longer as sure as I was.

Strange I actually think Wallace did a great job in the system. I thought Wallace looked a lot better at hitches and other short routes especially at the beginning of the season. I felt like his production dropped off near the end a bit but I actually was more surprised by Wallace's production this year than I thought he would. As a #2 for the team most the year he got over 1000 yards which is more than Torrey Smith ever did as a Raven as a #2. I mean in 2013 when he was the main receiver he had 1100 yards but that was because of volume more than anything. I don't want Wallace being the main guy in Baltimore but I don't want him leaving either. He doesn't cost too much and the last thing the team wants is another hole to fill. He actually did well blocking for a receiver I was pretty surprised there this season as well.

This season was in Trestman's system. Marty was calling the plays but I think a lot more will change in Marty's offense next season with an entire offseason. I think more balance with the run will only open up Wallace and Perriman more. Still need a possession receiver though.

[rmcjacket23]

10 hours ago, B-more Ravor said:

 

Savings for Pitta is $3.3M if released before June 1 or $5.5M if released after June 1.

Is Pitta's cap hit accurate? Didn't he reach some significant incentives in 2016 that would trigger higher compensation in 2017? Or did he take just a straight paycut?

I thought I had read elsewhere that he earned back a substantial amount of his 2016 paycut, which would push to 2017, thus making his cap hit even higher (and include guarantees in it).

[Edug27]

1 hour ago, rmw10 said:

I do begin to wonder with Wallace now that Marty is staying.  I don't think he's a great fit for Marty's offense and his horizontal game.  I still think it's likely he does, but no longer as sure as I was.

You're starting to see the light I see.... 

[Ravenseconbeast]

Wait Zach Orr is a udfa???

so its b.will, wagner and orr as priority 

[rmw10]

11 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Is Pitta's cap hit accurate? Didn't he reach some significant incentives in 2016 that would trigger higher compensation in 2017? Or did he take just a straight paycut?

I thought I had read elsewhere that he earned back a substantial amount of his 2016 paycut, which would push to 2017, thus making his cap hit even higher (and include guarantees in it).

From my understanding, and Ravor can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it necessarily affects his cap number, per se.  It does add it to the cap but it goes in the form of a "debit" I believe.

[rmw10]

19 minutes ago, Edug27 said:

You're starting to see the light I see.... 

It depends.  I still think they have to add another receiver of the style they're looking for before they get rid of him.  If they don't, they keep him.  If they do find the other style guy, they drop him and look for a cheaper deep threat type of option to pair with the new guy.  I'm still leaning much more to the side of Wallace staying, though.

[Edug27]

13 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

It depends.  I still think they have to add another receiver of the style they're looking for before they get rid of him.  If they don't, they keep him.  If they do find the other style guy, they drop him and look for a cheaper deep threat type of option to pair with the new guy.  I'm still leaning much more to the side of Wallace staying, though.

Right. Back in my original post last week about moving on from Wallace, I said...

Quote

- Speaking of the receiving core, I'd enter free agency looking to acquire a sure handed chain moving WR. I'm a Garcon fan, but that's just tossing a name out there. I don't think Mike Wallace is the guy this team needs.

It's all pretty much what you're saying now. And also, we have our deep threats with Perriman and Moore. Once they get time with Flacco and get enough reps in, they'll be explosive. 

[rmw10]

4 minutes ago, Edug27 said:

Right. Back in my original post last week about moving on from Wallace, I said...

It's all pretty much what you're saying now. And also, we have our deep threats with Perriman and Moore. Once they get time with Flacco and get enough reps in, they'll be explosive. 

I've come around a bit.  It's all going to depend on them adding someone else though.  I don't think they can reasonably make the move unless (a) they already have another experienced chain mover option in place or (b) they feel they can definitely find another deep threat cheaper.  I don't think that's necessarily Moore, but maybe someone like Torrey who should be incredibly cheap based off of the awful year he had.  It doesn't have to be him, but just an example.  More than happy to admit I might have been a little strong in my opinion.  I'll still maintain that I believe it's likely he stays, but I won't attach myself to any "sure thing" type of claims.

They're usually pretty forthright in the State of the Ravens presser, so I'll be curious to see if the WR position is brought up and what they have to say about it.

[Edug27]

10 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

I've come around a bit.  It's all going to depend on them adding someone else though.  I don't think they can reasonably make the move unless (a) they already have another experienced chain mover option in place or (b) they feel they can definitely find another deep threat cheaper.  I don't think that's necessarily Moore, but maybe someone like Torrey who should be incredibly cheap based off of the awful year he had.  It doesn't have to be him, but just an example.  More than happy to admit I might have been a little strong in my opinion.  I'll still maintain that I believe it's likely he stays, but I won't attach myself to any "sure thing" type of claims.

They're usually pretty forthright in the State of the Ravens presser, so I'll be curious to see if the WR position is brought up and what they have to say about it.

Whether he stays or not was never the question. Ozzie sometimes falls in love with the vets as well (something I had accused you and others here of doing). I was just saying he shouldn't stay. More of an observation than a prediction. Hopefully Ozzie and Harbs come around as well. 

But I agree that a wideout should probably be brought onboard before letting Wallace go. That's understandable. And no thanks to Torrey. I think you have little to no faith in the young receivers we have here. I really like Perriman and Moore. Both have great speed and playmaking ability. I think their ability to make the tough (or easy I guess) catches will improve now that their rookie seasons are out the way. But the key is how much time Flacco is going to invest working with this group. He needs to be in perfect sync with them. It's the only way we are going to take the next step as an offense. The days of throwing the ball up to Boldin and having him out-muscle everyone.... or hoping Torrey can draw a PI... or hoping Rice can turn every check down into a first down..... are over. 

Edited January 10 by Edug27

[B-more Ravor]

43 minutes ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

Wait Zach Orr is a udfa???

so its b.will, wagner and orr as priority 

Orr is a RFA, not a UFA, so they will tender him (likely the 2nd round tender, IMO) to maintain control over him for 2017.

[B-more Ravor]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Is Pitta's cap hit accurate? Didn't he reach some significant incentives in 2016 that would trigger higher compensation in 2017? Or did he take just a straight paycut?

I thought I had read elsewhere that he earned back a substantial amount of his 2016 paycut, which would push to 2017, thus making his cap hit even higher (and include guarantees in it).

 

40 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

From my understanding, and Ravor can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it necessarily affects his cap number, per se.  It does add it to the cap but it goes in the form of a "debit" I believe.

Yes, correct.  Incentives are paid if earned and count (in this case, since they were NLTBE) against the following year's Cap as a negative adjustment on the Cap, but don't affect the player's Cap number (and, hence, the dead money involved).

Sometimes players have escalators that do affect the following year(s)' base salaries if earned.

In this case, Pitta's were incentives, not escalators.

[rmw10]

1 minute ago, Edug27 said:

Whether he stays or not was never the question. Ozzie sometimes falls in love with the vets as well (something I had accused you and others here of doing). I was just saying he shouldn't stay. More of an observation that a prediction. Hopefully Ozzie and Harbs come around as well. 

But I agree that a wideout should probably be brought onboard before letting Wallace go. That's understandable. And no thanks to Torrey. I think you have little to no faith in the young receivers we have here. I really like Perriman and Moore. Both have great speed and playmaking ability. I think their ability to make the tough (or easy I guess) catches will improve now that their rookie seasons are out the way. But the key is how much time Flacco is going to invest working with this group. He needs to be in perfect sync with them. It's the only way we are going to take the next step as an offense. The days of throwing the ball up to Boldin and having him out-muscle everyone.... or hoping Torrey can draw a PI... or hoping Rice can turn every check down into a first down..... are over. 

I will freely admit that yes, this is the case right now.  I still like Perriman as the #3 option.  If you key in on his routes and overall inability to get out of his cuts, you'll see why.  There's no way you can count on him as a true starter at this point, but the positives are there.  I just think he needs some more time.

On Moore, I just don't see them putting too much trust into him just yet.  Again, I like him, but he's not near ready.  Too many easy drops and he fell out of favor rather quickly for that reason.

I'm not a huge proponent of Torrey either.  That was more just an example.  There are deep threats out there every year that can come pretty cheap.

One last thought on Wallace... I do think he is more than deep threat, but I don't know if he's more than that in Marty's offense.  He's good for a crossing route that he can take to the house, but I think he struggles a bit too much on staying strong on out routes and things of the sort.  In most other offenses, I think he's a great option.  In the Marty offense though, I don't know if he fits that well.

[Edug27]

2 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

I will freely admit that yes, this is the case right now.  I still like Perriman as the #3 option.  If you key in on his routes and overall inability to get out of his cuts, you'll see why.  There's no way you can count on him as a true starter at this point, but the positives are there.  I just think he needs some more time.

On Moore, I just don't see them putting too much trust into him just yet.  Again, I like him, but he's not near ready.  Too many easy drops and he fell out of favor rather quickly for that reason.

I'm not a huge proponent of Torrey either.  That was more just an example.  There are deep threats out there every year that can come pretty cheap.

One last thought on Wallace... I do think he is more than deep threat, but I don't know if he's more than that in Marty's offense.  He's good for a crossing route that he can take to the house, but I think he struggles a bit too much on staying strong on out routes and things of the sort.  In most other offenses, I think he's a great option.  In the Marty offense though, I don't know if he fits that well.

Wallace is ideal for an offense with a QB looking to air it out. A QB who is accurate with the deep ball because Wallace won't give you much fight if the ball isn't placed perfectly in his mits. He'd be great in New Orleans... or even back in Pitt. His numbers were solid in Baltimore, but it wasn't pretty... or consistent.. or effective when it mattered. You can say he's not a good fit with Marty, sure, but I also don't think he's a good fit with Flacco either.  

I also think the only way to get these young players ready are to give them the reps. Get them out there and you'll be surprised how well they develop. Sort of like we did with Torrey. There wasn't a lot to like early on with Torrey. Perriman made big strides over the course of the season. IMO, he's ready for the #2 WR spot. But I know I'm in the minority here. 

[rmw10]

2 minutes ago, Edug27 said:

Wallace is ideal for an offense with a QB looking to air it out. A QB who is accurate with the deep ball because Wallace won't give you much fight if the ball isn't placed perfectly in his mits. He'd be great in New Orleans... or even back in Pitt. His numbers were solid in Baltimore, but it wasn't pretty... or consistent.. or effective when it mattered. You can say he's not a good fit with Marty, sure, but I also don't think he's a good fit with Flacco either.  

I also think the only way to get these young players ready are to give them the reps. Get them out there and you'll be surprised how well they develop. Sort of like we did with Torrey. There wasn't a lot to like early on with Torrey. Perriman made big strides over the course of the season. IMO, he's ready for the #2 WR spot. But I know I'm in the minority here. 

I think he's a good fit with the former Flacco, but not the Flacco we saw this year.  If you can get Flacco back to the point where he wasn't throwing off of his back foot and was willing to air it out, I think they'd be perfect for one another.  It sounds like they had that rapport in the offseason.  However, when Flacco got into real game situations, he was so tentative to throw it deep.  He was an entirely new QB this year, and that's a whole different discussion.

I'm absolutely fine with them getting reps, but I don't think you can really throw them into the fire yet.  Too many inconsistencies in both of their games to take that risk at this point.  I think the difference with Torrey is that he wasn't originally slated to be what he was, and that's how I'd view Perriman at this time.  You make the effort to get a #1 and/or #2 option in here.  If an injury comes along, let Perriman take the reigns.  If one of the starters isn't doing well, let Perriman take the reigns and see what you have.  I just can't support him as the de facto #2 at this time because his route running needs so much work.  Maybe he is like Torrey and explodes with reps.  Maybe he's also like Travis Taylor who just couldn't hack it.  You always need to prepare for the possibility of the latter.

[jazz1988]

27 minutes ago, Edug27 said:

Wallace is ideal for an offense with a QB looking to air it out. A QB who is accurate with the deep ball because Wallace won't give you much fight if the ball isn't placed perfectly in his mits. He'd be great in New Orleans... or even back in Pitt. His numbers were solid in Baltimore, but it wasn't pretty... or consistent.. or effective when it mattered. You can say he's not a good fit with Marty, sure, but I also don't think he's a good fit with Flacco either.  

I also think the only way to get these young players ready are to give them the reps. Get them out there and you'll be surprised how well they develop. Sort of like we did with Torrey. There wasn't a lot to like early on with Torrey. Perriman made big strides over the course of the season. IMO, he's ready for the #2 WR spot. But I know I'm in the minority here. 

If you think Joe Facco can't be accurate with throwing deep than you may not have  been paying  attention to him when he was throwing to Torrey Smith or even Jacoby Jones for that matter whom both are receivers that don't realy fight for the ball consistently. I will admit that Flacco was way inaccurate this year than in previous years but every quarterback has their down year from Matt Ryan, Philip Rivers, Cam Newton, and more. It's just up to Joe Flacco to work more on being better next season and for The Ravens to hired a good quarterback coach who I hope is  Scott Turner or Greg Knapp.

Edited January 10 by jazz1988

[Edug27]

8 minutes ago, jazz1988 said:

If you think Joe Facco can't be accurate with throwing deep than you may not have  been paying  attention to him when he was throwing to Torrey Smith or even Jacoby Jones for that matter whom both are receivers that don't realy fight for the ball consistently. I will admit that Flacco was way inaccurate this year than in previous years but every quarterback has their down year from Matt Ryan, Philip Rivers, Cam Cameron, and more. It's just up to Joe Flacco to work more on being better next season and for The Ravens to hired a good quarterback coach who I hope is  Scott Turner or Greg Knapp.

I think Flacco has the arm strength and puts his wideouts in a position to make a play on the ball. He's great at it. But I wouldn't call him the most accurate though. Torrey was great at adjusting to find the ball and doing what was needed to make a play or draw the PI call. I don't see that in Mike Wallace. You need to drop that ball exactly where he needs it to be for him. Something Flacco isn't the best at.....  even more so now. I live around a bunch of Raven haters. Yes, it's depressing and stressful at times. But what they always say is that Flacco "drops back, closes his eyes and throws it as far as he can, and his receivers (or refs) bail him out" .... Now, that's a stretch and driven off of pure hatred, but I see where they are coming from... even if it's not totally accurate. 

Edited January 10 by Edug27

[Swift 1]

Except his salary cap,whauts the problem with Pitta? Everybody is ragging on him and I thought he had a pretty good year.

[rmw10]

Just now, Swift 1 said:

Except his salary cap,whauts the problem with Pitta? Everybody is ragging on him and I thought he had a pretty good year.

Numbers are inflated by him being the check down option all of the time.  For a receiving TE that doesn't block, you need to be able to stretch the seam and get open consistently.  That's where he really struggled this year.  The numbers look great on the surface but there were a lot of issues with him out there.

[trevorsteadman]

I still think if the Ravens deside to cut ties with Wallace then they need another deep threat. Desean Jackson is a name to toss out but I have a feeling he will be payed more than Wallace is currently getting. They need a chain mover badly more than anything. I think the team needs to hold onto Wallace so Flacco can have a little bit of consistency. 

[trevorsteadman]

2 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Numbers are inflated by him being the check down option all of the time.  For a receiving TE that doesn't block, you need to be able to stretch the seam and get open consistently.  That's where he really struggled this year.  The numbers look great on the surface but there were a lot of issues with him out there.

I agree he had the catches, but not the yards he should have. Too many 2-3 yard gains and that is it. 

[trevorsteadman]

5 minutes ago, Edug27 said:

I think Flacco has the arm strength and puts his wideouts in a position to make a play on the ball. He's great at it. But I wouldn't call him the most accurate though. Torrey was great at adjusting to find the ball and doing what was needed to make a play or draw the PI call. I don't see that in Mike Wallace. You need to drop that ball exactly where he needs it to be for him. Something Flacco isn't the best at.....  even more so now. I live around a bunch of Raven haters. Yes, it's depressing and stressful at times. But what they always say is that Flacco "drops back, closes his eyes and throws it as far as he can, and his receivers (or refs) bail him out" .... Now, that's a stretch and driven off of pure hatred, but I see where they are coming from... even if it's not totally accurate. 

Yes but I do think Wallace is a lot better at getting open than Torrey Smith ever was. 

[rmw10]

Just now, trevorsteadman said:

I agree he had the catches, but not the yards he should have. Too many 2-3 yard gains and that is it. 

Yep.  YPR and YAC numbers were awful.