Next Up: Ravens Free Agents--Who goes? Who stays?

[rmcjacket23]

30 minutes ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

First off, you don't know what I do and don't know, so don't pretend to. Before the off season I told this site that Devin Hester would be a Raven. I wonder how I knew?

You don't think that a billion dollar investment like the Ravens that hires a person in the capacity of being a cap guru has no idea about what potential market value is of certain players on their roster? You don't think the decision on KO was made prior to him leaving last off season?

All you need to do is look at logic. The Ravens drafted/signed THREE players that play the same position as Brandon Williams. Carl Davis, Willie Henry, and Micheal Pierce and those guys were all obtained within the past two off seasons. You can look at the kind of contract Damon Harrison got from the Giants last season and argue that Brandon Williams is pretty much the same player. Add in the fact that salaries tend to go up for guys in the primes of their careers and you got a potential 5 year $50 million contract on your hands. You think the Ravens are going to spend that after seeing the level of play they got out of Pierce last season and while getting a healthy Carl Davis and Willie Henry back?

They already have Rick Wagner's replacement on hand in Alex Lewis. I am certain the Ravens have a price point in mind for signing Wagner and if an offer comes in over that point they let him walk.

There is nothing baseless about my thought process and if you think this stuff hasn't already happened then why don't you offer me any information that supports your viewpoint rather than just aimlessly trying to shoot down my comment. Substance to the sizzle.

And just so we are on the same page as far as what my "prediction" or stance here is...

I think ONE of either Williams or Wagner is retained for 2017. My rationale is simple... I think they're going to cut some pricey veterans (namely Dumervil and possibly Webb) and I think we're going to end up with north of $20M in cap space to spend.

So either we are going to be bigger spenders in FA than we usually are (which I find unlikely) or we will use some of that money to retain at least one of our own players.

I think Wagner is more likely, based on the concept that he will be cheaper, that the FO may want to retain Jernigan over Williams and likely can't retain both in back to back seasons, and the emphasis on protecting Joe better and continuity on the Oline.

The only reasons I see for not retaining one of these guys is either we plan on keeping most of the team intact and not making a lot of cuts (seems highly unlikely) or that they are planning to spend much bigger in FA, perhaps on a WR or Corner. 

Based on what I'm seeing, we're going to have more cap space to spend than normal, and we're going to spend that, because we always do. Its either going to be on FAs or our own players.

[Purple_City39]

1 hour ago, EdTheMythicalOne said:

You mentioned as a #1 or #2 option, and I took that as YOU MEANT it by stating that Perriman should be at the very least a starting WR and possibly the #1 option. How in the world else could anyone interpret that? Be careful with that hypocrite word. I don't think you have the foundation behind you to utilize the word properly.

I always do what I chose and I don't need your permission. I called you out on your horse stuff and now you are scrambling to back track because I make enough sense to make you realize what you typed was silly.

Which Ravens receiver didn't have a lot of drops? Dennis Pitta. Might be why Flacco tosses the rock to him all the time. Funny how the guy with the most reliable hands gets targeted the most.

No, you give the guy that can make the catches and make the plays the most targets, plain and simple. You don't just toss the rock on a wish....not if you want to win football games.

There you go again, reading into things however you want and calling them fact.  I said "which Ravens WR..." and you respond with a TE.  Way to prove a point for me

In terms of the rest, yes you assumed what I meant and you can stroke yourself as much as you want on thinking you interpreted me correctly, but you'll forever be wrong and wrapped up in your own ego.  No backtracking.  Perriman should definitely be thrown into the starting mix because that's what you draft a WR in the 1st round for.  There is no WR (make sure you read it carefully, maybe twice this time) on the team with a higher ceiling.  There is no WR (again, read the two letters) who didn't have issues with drops.  There is also no WR currently under contract who made the spectacular catches that Perriman did make.  Now if the Ravens go out and sign another starting caliber WR, then maybe the situation goes a different route.  But as of now, there's no reason not to start Perriman.

[bmorephily]

On 1/1/2017 at 3:39 PM, Moderator 2 said:

Post your thoughts here,

I would like to see the ravens in the playoffs again i wonder when flacco is ever gonna play for some of that 120 million in which he had a team built around him do any body think he would take a pay cut like brady to make the team better I would hope so but two years in a row i have no trash talk to dish out after week 17 our secondary along with the pass rush has been really killing us throughout the season please flacco take one for the team

[trevorsteadman]

11 hours ago, Purple_City39 said:

There you go again, reading into things however you want and calling them fact.  I said "which Ravens WR..." and you respond with a TE.  Way to prove a point for me

In terms of the rest, yes you assumed what I meant and you can stroke yourself as much as you want on thinking you interpreted me correctly, but you'll forever be wrong and wrapped up in your own ego.  No backtracking.  Perriman should definitely be thrown into the starting mix because that's what you draft a WR in the 1st round for.  There is no WR (make sure you read it carefully, maybe twice this time) on the team with a higher ceiling.  There is no WR (again, read the two letters) who didn't have issues with drops.  There is also no WR currently under contract who made the spectacular catches that Perriman did make.  Now if the Ravens go out and sign another starting caliber WR, then maybe the situation goes a different route.  But as of now, there's no reason not to start Perriman.

Perriman is inconsistent and hasn't proven he can be a starter in the NFL yet. You cannot just base every player based off of ceiling, a lot of players never make that ceiling ever. 

[rmcjacket23]

16 hours ago, bmorephily said:

I would like to see the ravens in the playoffs again i wonder when flacco is ever gonna play for some of that 120 million in which he had a team built around him do any body think he would take a pay cut like brady to make the team better I would hope so but two years in a row i have no trash talk to dish out after week 17 our secondary along with the pass rush has been really killing us throughout the season please flacco take one for the team

You take one for your team first...

[rmcjacket23]

Two notable pieces today from the Sun...

The Baltimore Sun's Jeff Zrebiec expects the Ravens to release OLB Elvis Dumervil this offseason.

Dumervil battled a foot injury all season, missing the first three games of the season and Weeks 6-11. When on the field, Dumervil recorded three sacks in eight games and received strong pass-rush marks from Pro Football Focus. But after racking up 26.5 sacks his first two seasons in Baltimore, Dumervil, who turns 33 later this month, has just nine sacks over the past two years. He has one year left on his contract. Baltimore can clear $6 million by releasing him.

 

 

Source: Baltimore Sun

Jan 6 - 11:33 AM

 

The Ravens aren't expected to re-sign impending free agent RT Rick Wagner.

Wagner just finished out his rookie contract. He graded out as Pro Football Focus' No. 4 pass-blocking right tackle this season and has missed just two games in four seasons. Wagner was PFF's No. 1 overall right tackle in 2014. The Ravens wouldn't pay LG Kelechi Osemele last offseason and don't appear prepared to do so with Wagner. He'll likely command $6-7 million per year.

 

 

Source: Baltimore Sun

Jan 6 - 11:37 AM

[rmw10]

6 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Two notable pieces today from the Sun...

The Baltimore Sun's Jeff Zrebiec expects the Ravens to release OLB Elvis Dumervil this offseason.

Dumervil battled a foot injury all season, missing the first three games of the season and Weeks 6-11. When on the field, Dumervil recorded three sacks in eight games and received strong pass-rush marks from Pro Football Focus. But after racking up 26.5 sacks his first two seasons in Baltimore, Dumervil, who turns 33 later this month, has just nine sacks over the past two years. He has one year left on his contract. Baltimore can clear $6 million by releasing him.

 

 

Source: Baltimore Sun

Jan 6 - 11:33 AM

 

The Ravens aren't expected to re-sign impending free agent RT Rick Wagner.

Wagner just finished out his rookie contract. He graded out as Pro Football Focus' No. 4 pass-blocking right tackle this season and has missed just two games in four seasons. Wagner was PFF's No. 1 overall right tackle in 2014. The Ravens wouldn't pay LG Kelechi Osemele last offseason and don't appear prepared to do so with Wagner. He'll likely command $6-7 million per year.

 

 

Source: Baltimore Sun

Jan 6 - 11:37 AM

Oh man this reminded me that I saw an article yesterday that said the Ravens are going to make a serious effort to retain Brandon Williams and he'll be the top priority.  Now I can't remember which article it was or who said it.  It alluded to Wagner and Juice being the secondary options as well, but I imagine you get Juice in combination with either of them.

[redlobster]

3 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Oh man this reminded me that I saw an article yesterday that said the Ravens are going to make a serious effort to retain Brandon Williams and he'll be the top priority.  Now I can't remember which article it was or who said it.  It alluded to Wagner and Juice being the secondary options as well, but I imagine you get Juice in combination with either of them.

I like Williams and his play but think he is easier to replace especially at the pay he will probably get vs Wagner. Would be a shame to lose a top 5 RT and have to start over again.

 

Still baffles me that Lewis didn't get the start at RT vs Bengals and instead Hurst did, especially if Wagner was not planning on being re-signed. Unless they think Lewis will stick at LG and a RT will be drafted.

Edited January 6 by redlobster

[rmw10]

2 minutes ago, redlobster said:

I like Williams and his play but think he is easier to replace especially at the pay he will probably get vs Wagner. Would be a shame to lose a top 5 RT and have to start over again.

 

Still baffles me that Lewis didn't get the start at RT vs Bengals and instead Hurst did, especially if Wagner was not planning on being re-signed. Unless they think Lewis will stick at LG and a RT will be drafted.

That's how I feel.  I have absolutely no problem keeping Williams, but if you put a gun to my head and told me to pick, I'm probably going Wagner.

In the article that Rotoworld referenced, it's stated in there that Harbaugh said he feels good about Stanley and Lewis as a pair on the left side.  Harbs didn't confirm it, but it sounds like he's not exactly a RT option, at least right now.

[rmcjacket23]

1 minute ago, rmw10 said:

That's how I feel.  I have absolutely no problem keeping Williams, but if you put a gun to my head and told me to pick, I'm probably going Wagner.

In the article that Rotoworld referenced, it's stated in there that Harbaugh said he feels good about Stanley and Lewis as a pair on the left side.  Harbs didn't confirm it, but it sounds like he's not exactly a RT option, at least right now.

Yeah I've considered this also. I'm not convinced that Lewis is just being handed the RT job. Wouldn't surprise me if you see somebody else there next year.

[rmw10]

Just now, rmcjacket23 said:

Yeah I've considered this also. I'm not convinced that Lewis is just being handed the RT job. Wouldn't surprise me if you see somebody else there next year.

Harbaugh also mentioned during his presser that the OL is the priority and he alluded to how the Cowboys have done it - stocking up good talent with high draft picks.  I don't think this is the draft for that, but that's an entirely different discussion.  Regardless, you're going to have Stanley, Lewis, and Yanda as locks.  I'm not convinced Zuttah is fully on the way out the door yet, although I suspect they'll make a concerted effort to upgrade.

[The Raven]

Not happy about not locking up Wagner. To me, he's the clear pick over Williams. Not even close to me. 

I think we'll see Alex Lewis do better at RT than at LG but still. That opens up a hole at LG and possibly a hole at center, too.

[redlobster]

1 minute ago, rmw10 said:

Harbaugh also mentioned during his presser that the OL is the priority and he alluded to how the Cowboys have done it - stocking up good talent with high draft picks.  I don't think this is the draft for that, but that's an entirely different discussion.  Regardless, you're going to have Stanley, Lewis, and Yanda as locks.  I'm not convinced Zuttah is fully on the way out the door yet, although I suspect they'll make a concerted effort to upgrade.

I can understand if they think Lewis is a good fit for LG and can lock down the left side with Stanley and Lewis, RG with Yanda. I think a decent RT can be found later in the draft (Wagner in the 5th round) , so I think I have an understanding of where they are coming from, even if I don't like it.

[rmw10]

1 minute ago, redlobster said:

I can understand if they think Lewis is a good fit for LG and can lock down the left side with Stanley and Lewis, RG with Yanda. I think a decent RT can be found later in the draft (Wagner in the 5th round) , so I think I have an understanding of where they are coming from, even if I don't like it.

It'll be interesting to see what they decide to do.  It's a pretty weak FA class, which could be the basis for why they're content moving on if they feel he'll get paid too much.  It's also a weak draft class though and that's an added wrinkle.

[rmw10]

Furthermore, if it does turn out that we sign Williams and not Wagner, that probably also eliminates Guy from the conversation.  Even though I don't expect him to be too expensive, I'd be surprised if we ponied up another multi-year contract with the possibility that we might want to keep Jernigan next year.  We'll probably just rely on guys like Urban, Kaufusi, and Davis to step up.

[jazz1988]

25 minutes ago, redlobster said:

I like Williams and his play but think he is easier to replace especially at the pay he will probably get vs Wagner. Would be a shame to lose a top 5 RT and have to start over again.

 

Still baffles me that Lewis didn't get the start at RT vs Bengals and instead Hurst did, especially if Wagner was not planning on being re-signed. Unless they think Lewis will stick at LG and a RT will be drafted.

I'm not entirely sure if he is easy to replace at all. I know Ravens fans like Micheal Pierce but  I never seen him on the field without Williams helping him defend against the run. 

[GrimCoconut]

This is interesting but I'm not surprised either way. Keeping Wagner makes sense because it solves our tackles but letting him go also makes sense since he's been through multiple injuries and we may be worried about his health--not that his injuries are serious except his Lisfranc years ago. Williams may have slipped at the end but it's hard to say who's to blame there maybe it's due to reps because he was great early in the year. 

[Jonah DeVito]

44 minutes ago, The Raven said:

Not happy about not locking up Wagner. To me, he's the clear pick over Williams. Not even close to me. 

I think we'll see Alex Lewis do better at RT than at LG but still. That opens up a hole at LG and possibly a hole at center, too.

I'm gonna be so pissed if we sign Williams over Wagner. I like Williams and all, but come on, it's a no brainer. 

[PurpleCity5]

40 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

This is interesting but I'm not surprised either way. Keeping Wagner makes sense because it solves our tackles but letting him go also makes sense since he's been through multiple injuries and we may be worried about his health--not that his injuries are serious except his Lisfranc years ago. Williams may have slipped at the end but it's hard to say who's to blame there maybe it's due to reps because he was great early in the year. 

Doesn't make sense to me to keep Williams over Wagner. Harbaugh talked about making Joe a better QB by beefing up the OL, its hard to take that seriously if the team lets go of Wagner. I understand if they have confidence in Alex Lewis, but the fact of the matter is that there's no assurance he'll be able to maintain the level of play at RT. I like Lewis but letting go of Wagner would add another hole on the OL with center being a need. We need to devote resources to CB/OLB/WR/C and they won't all be filled in, this is also knowing well that CB and OLB are in desperate need of upgrades and cannot be ignored. FA goes towards WR, OLB, and CB, and maybe draft is C and OG? Maybe they pass on WR and rely on Perriman to become the #1 but lets be honest here, its okay if they want him to step up as the #2 but its not only him I would be worried about, Mike Wallace didn't really light the world on fire in his final 8 games of the season and sort of fell off, he certainly cannot be relied upon to carry the torch of a #1 WR. 

What's even worse is that the Ravens were effective in running it towards the right side, and on runs towards the right end they were one of the best in the league. 

You're not going to make Joe better by letting go on Wagner and not making a whole lot of improvements at WR, its going to be the exact opposite actually. 

I know $6M might seem like a lot but its worth it for a guy like Wagner. I'm hoping this news isn't true like the news that said that Marty was going to get fired. 

Edited January 6 by PurpleCity5

[The Raven]

We need to beef up the line to help Joe and the running game, they said. We're not going to re-sign Rick Wagner, they said.

[allblackraven]

1 hour ago, The Raven said:

We need to beef up the line to help Joe and the running game, they said. We're not going to re-sign Rick Wagner, they said.

Shame on you. Who gives you the right to expect logical moves to happen?

[Ravenseconbeast]

Has anyone broke down the dead money & savings cap to see the chance of us keeping both Brandon & Wagner?   

[The Raven]

1 hour ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

Has anyone broke down the dead money & savings cap to see the chance of us keeping both Brandon & Wagner?   

CC: @B-more Ravor

 

Edited January 6 by The Raven

[Tank 92]

Did I miss something? Someone said Wagner won't be re signed?

[allblackraven]

2 minutes ago, Tank 92 said:

Did I miss something? Someone said Wagner won't be re signed?

Zrebiec's sources.

[ALSKAN RAVEN FAN]

On 1/1/2017 at 1:45 PM, rmw10 said:

 

What you want and what you think should happen are always 2 different things though.  The team still seemingly likes Elam.  He shouldn't be expensive, and for that reason, I think he'll be back.  Now, whether he makes the 53 next year is a whole different question.  I wouldn't be surprised at all to see him on the 90 though.

I agree with the what you want and what you think part your so right. I know your not trying to say keep Elam your just trying to keep it real but if Oz cant find anyone out there to fill that roster spot with just a touch more skill or potential we are in for a world of hurt. Elam Stinks at the NFL level PERIOD!!!

[Tank 92]

53 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

Zrebiec's sources.

I went back through the thread..... Are you talking about the Zrebiec quote about them not signing KO so they won't pay Wagner? That's just seems like an assumption on his part. 

[rmw10]

17 minutes ago, Tank 92 said:

I went back through the thread..... Are you talking about the Zrebiec quote about them not signing KO so they won't pay Wagner? That's just seems like an assumption on his part. 

Of course there are no guarantees at this point, but Zrebiec is a guy that has some good sources passed onto him by Aaron Wilson. It's far too early to know anything for sure, but I wouldn't doubt he's heard some rumblings at the very least. The article states it a little differently than Rotoworld does as well. 

[Tank 92]

3 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Of course there are no guarantees at this point, but Zrebiec is a guy that has some good sources passed onto him by Aaron Wilson. It's far too early to know anything for sure, but I wouldn't doubt he's heard some rumblings at the very least. The article states it a little differently than Rotoworld does as well. 

Do you have a link to the article? I searched the Sun and Twitter and couldn't find it. 

[B-more Ravor]

4 hours ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

Has anyone broke down the dead money & savings cap to see the chance of us keeping both Brandon & Wagner?   

 

2 hours ago, The Raven said:

CC: @B-more Ravor

 

All you need is right here - a full breakdown of the present Cap status and a projection of where they will be after ERFAs, RFAs, incentives and other Cap adjustments:

http://russellstreetreport.com/2016/12/27/baltimore-ravens-salary-cap/ravens-2017-offseason-preview/