2017 edge rusher

[JoeyFlex5]

2 minutes ago, hn68wb4 said:

I really love what I see from Landry, also something people don't talk about is that he's got some unbelievable balance on the edge and great reflexes; because of both of those cut blocks don't always get him and on tape you don't ever see him on his butt. Very underrated traits to have, lots of edge rushers you see tackles throw them off balance and that's enough to take them to the ground, once that happens it's over. I think he will end up being a first rounder when it's all said and done, there are a few other edge guys that I believe will start to drop during the pre-draft process for various reasons, guys like Harris I think will end up being lock second rounders.

I mentioned his balance in that post but didn't get into detail. That's one thing that really separates him from others. Tackles give a last ditch effort to knock him over and it always fails. He gives the stutter step and then blasts past the OT and already beaten the OT gives a shove and it ends up doing nothing. 

If landry is there He is my front runner for 2nd round.

[rossihunter2]

1 hour ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I mentioned his balance in that post but didn't get into detail. That's one thing that really separates him from others. Tackles give a last ditch effort to knock him over and it always fails. He gives the stutter step and then blasts past the OT and already beaten the OT gives a shove and it ends up doing nothing. 

If landry is there He is my front runner for 2nd round.

just watched him vs florida state - he really does look good in that game at least

[Dubs]

noticing a lot of love for many edge guys in the first and second rounds yet no one is even mentioning or discussing Taco Charlton, he could easily be a first rounder with his size and athleticism combo, how he he plays up in big games, his experience, and is on the upswing as a player..anyone have any thoughts on him as I have watched a couple Michigan games this year and kept getting pulled to watching him...

[Jacquouille]

43 minutes ago, Dubs said:

noticing a lot of love for many edge guys in the first and second rounds yet no one is even mentioning or discussing Taco Charlton, he could easily be a first rounder with his size and athleticism combo, how he he plays up in big games, his experience, and is on the upswing as a player..anyone have any thoughts on him as I have watched a couple Michigan games this year and kept getting pulled to watching him...

Charlton is a guy that we're in a bad position to take. I think he goes 25/35, too late for our 1st but too early for our 2nd.

[allblackraven]

50 minutes ago, Dubs said:

noticing a lot of love for many edge guys in the first and second rounds yet no one is even mentioning or discussing Taco Charlton, he could easily be a first rounder with his size and athleticism combo, how he he plays up in big games, his experience, and is on the upswing as a player..anyone have any thoughts on him as I have watched a couple Michigan games this year and kept getting pulled to watching him...

I don't think he's a good fit here, looks and plays like prototype 43 end.

[RaineV1]

3 hours ago, Dubs said:

noticing a lot of love for many edge guys in the first and second rounds yet no one is even mentioning or discussing Taco Charlton, he could easily be a first rounder with his size and athleticism combo, how he he plays up in big games, his experience, and is on the upswing as a player..anyone have any thoughts on him as I have watched a couple Michigan games this year and kept getting pulled to watching him...

For guys after the 2nd round, I think Daeshon Hall would be a great pickup in the 3rd. He's a bit overshadowed because of being on the same team as Garret, but he's a pretty solid player in his own right. Tyquan Lewis from OSU could also be a good pick up in the 3rd. There's also the chance for something to cause a guy expected to go in the 2nd to fall to the mid 3rd. Slides happen every year.

[808Blackbirds]

Is the hype real with tj Watt?

[rossihunter2]

2 hours ago, 808Blackbirds said:

Is the hype real with tj Watt?

from what i've seen of him so far it does look that way

[Jacquouille]

2 hours ago, 808Blackbirds said:

Is the hype real with tj Watt?

I've taken time to study him. I'll make a more precise report on him when I'll be able to, but to make it short yes, he has first round traits. Still not sure I'd want him at 16 but as a trade back option he's up there with the best.

[Boddiebroadus]

So after Garrett, Barnett and Williams who's the next best edge rusher? 

 

Also so I don't like takk at 16 he's a pure effort player no pass rush moves at all. But I am taking a liking to Solomon Thomas I know he's an interior guy but the size and athletic ability I think he can transition 

[JoeyFlex5]

4 minutes ago, Boddiebroadus said:

So after Garrett, Barnett and Williams who's the next best edge rusher? 

 

Also so I don't like takk at 16 he's a pure effort player no pass rush moves at all. But I am taking a liking to Solomon Thomas I know he's an interior guy but the size and athletic ability I think he can transition 

I'm going with Charles Harris and Harold landry tied for that spot. Landry is quicker and far more flexible, Harris is more stiff but just as explosive and plays more refined and physical. 

I too think takk is overrated. He's a late 2nd project imo.

[GrimCoconut]

7 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I'm going with Charles Harris and Harold landry tied for that spot. Landry is quicker and far more flexible, Harris is more stiff but just as explosive and plays more refined and physical. 

I too think takk is overrated. He's a late 2nd project imo.

I'd agree with these names and I'd throw Watt into this group as well. It's a really solid edge rusher draft but I like the top talent much better than the day 2 talent. Unless a top edge rusher isn't there, I'd go that position. That said I wouldn't be surprised if we took a RB like Cook or Fournette if either somehow made it to us and wouldn't be shocked if we even traded up for one 

[RaineV1]

3 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

I'd agree with these names and I'd throw Watt into this group as well. It's a really solid edge rusher draft but I like the top talent much better than the day 2 talent. Unless a top edge rusher isn't there, I'd go that position. That said I wouldn't be surprised if we took a RB like Cook or Fournette if either somehow made it to us and wouldn't be shocked if we even traded up for one 

I agree. I think Hooker is really the only guy I'd take over one of the top five edge rushers at 16.

[rmw10]

3 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

I'd agree with these names and I'd throw Watt into this group as well. It's a really solid edge rusher draft but I like the top talent much better than the day 2 talent. Unless a top edge rusher isn't there, I'd go that position. That said I wouldn't be surprised if we took a RB like Cook or Fournette if either somehow made it to us and wouldn't be shocked if we even traded up for one 

I can agree with that.  Even furthermore, if we do decide to really focus on needs, I like the Day 2 talent at CB much better than I like the day 2 talent at pass rusher.  At this point, and I know it's 4 months before the draft - I'd be surprised if pass rusher wasn't the pick in round 1.

[Italian Raven]

1 hour ago, rmw10 said:

I can agree with that.  Even furthermore, if we do decide to really focus on needs, I like the Day 2 talent at CB much better than I like the day 2 talent at pass rusher.  At this point, and I know it's 4 months before the draft - I'd be surprised if pass rusher wasn't the pick in round 1.

I´m with you there and as of now Lawson/T.White is my favourite realistic combination.
However, I´m not sure I´d still take a T.Williams/C.Harris over a falling Tabor (character concern, see our Jimmy) or Wilson (might not be the flashiest DB at the combine.

[rmw10]

6 minutes ago, Italian Raven said:

I´m with you there and as of now Lawson/T.White is my favourite realistic combination.
However, I´m not sure I´d still take a T.Williams/C.Harris over a falling Tabor (character concern, see our Jimmy) or Wilson (might not be the flashiest DB at the combine.

I'm not big on Tabor personally, but if Wilson is there, absolutely.  He's my top CB at this point.

As far as what I expect to be available though, I'll go ahead and assume we'd probably go pass rusher over CB if you made me pick now.  I'm fully aware that will change in the coming months, though.

[AnthonyGames]

I think we need a speed rusher type guy. Yes having a guy like Von Miller or Mack with a rare combo of size, strength, and speed is the most coveted, but I think we lack as speed rusher, especially now the Dumervil is towards the end of his career. We have Suggs, Za'Darius Smith, Matt Judon, and Correa, who to me are all kind of the same: the bigger and stronger type pass rusher; they use these attributes to disrupt. Look at the Vic Beasley and Markus Golden type pass rusher. They had huge sack numbers and they are the speedy type guys. Some NFL tackles are more athletic but can't handle power rushers. Some tackles are strong but can't handle speed rushers. If we had a speed rusher type OLB, we can mix and match with our other OLB/pass rushers to find some good results.

[rmw10]

1 minute ago, AnthonyGames said:

I think we need a speed rusher type guy. Yes having a guy like Von Miller or Mack with a rare combo of size, strength, and speed is the most coveted, but I think we lack as speed rusher, especially now the Dumervil is towards the end of his career. We have Suggs, Za'Darius Smith, Matt Judon, and Correa, who to me are all kind of the same: the bigger and stronger type pass rusher; they use these attributes to disrupt. Look at the Vic Beasley and Markus Golden type pass rusher. They had huge sack numbers and they are the speedy type guys. Some NFL tackles are more athletic but can't handle power rushers. Some tackles are strong but can't handle speed rushers. If we had a speed rusher type OLB, we can mix and match with our other OLB/pass rushers to find some good results.

I'd take another Antwan Barnes type - situational guy who's only job is to run after the QB.

[GrimCoconut]

2 hours ago, RaineV1 said:

I agree. I think Hooker is really the only guy I'd take over one of the top five edge rushers at 16.

Yeah I agree for the most part. There's a big difference in top pass rusher talent and the rest yet we've seen more CB drafted outside the top be very successful 

2 hours ago, rmw10 said:

I can agree with that.  Even furthermore, if we do decide to really focus on needs, I like the Day 2 talent at CB much better than I like the day 2 talent at pass rusher.  At this point, and I know it's 4 months before the draft - I'd be surprised if pass rusher wasn't the pick in round 1.

As I said above I think it's generally easier to find quality top CB outside the top of the Draft while it's very hard to find a top pass rusher outside that range. 

8 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

I'd take another Antwan Barnes type - situational guy who's only job is to run after the QB.

Not me. I want a complete player or a guy who could be one. Suggs was a situational pass rusher with upside to be complete but Barnes was always in the latter mold. You may be saying this but it wasn't clear to me so if so carry on lol

[RaineV1]

1 hour ago, GrimCoconut said:

Yeah I agree for the most part. There's a big difference in top pass rusher talent and the rest yet we've seen more CB drafted outside the top be very successful

Right. Not only is the drop off more significant amount the top tier pass rushers to the rest, but there's also the fact that we just need a pass rusher more. The Ravens are going to face some pretty good QBs next year (Luck, Stafford, Rodgers, Mariotta, Big Ben, and Carr). Even with Smith, Young, and Sidney Jones we could get burned without putting pressure on them. Granted, the need could go down a bit if we could get someone in free agency.

[rmw10]

1 hour ago, GrimCoconut said:

Yeah I agree for the most part. There's a big difference in top pass rusher talent and the rest yet we've seen more CB drafted outside the top be very successful 

As I said above I think it's generally easier to find quality top CB outside the top of the Draft while it's very hard to find a top pass rusher outside that range. 

Not me. I want a complete player or a guy who could be one. Suggs was a situational pass rusher with upside to be complete but Barnes was always in the latter mold. You may be saying this but it wasn't clear to me so if so carry on lol

As far as the Barnes quote, I don't mean just getting that type.  It'd be nice to find one of those guys as depth, I mean.  I know I went short with that reply but I had a meeting to go to lol

[Boddiebroadus]

k so the more I watch Harris the more I dislike him. He's a very talented pass rusher but that's it. He plays weak and gives up all the time on run plays. I don't want him as a raven. 

Now I don't really like takk as a pass rusher but he is a good football player. He plays hard and he's good against the run. He's a freak athlete and might be able to develope into a great player. He can stay on the field all downs where Harris is situational.

 

So if the top 3 pass rushers are gone I think I'd rather go cb in the first and pass rusher in the second. I also really like Solomon as a football player and wouldn't be mad with that pick. I also wouldn't be surprised with a WR in the first. 

[rossihunter2]

6 minutes ago, Boddiebroadus said:

k so the more I watch Harris the more I dislike him. He's a very talented pass rusher but that's it. He plays weak and gives up all the time on run plays. I don't want him as a raven. 

Now I don't really like takk as a pass rusher but he is a good football player. He plays hard and he's good against the run. He's a freak athlete and might be able to develope into a great player. He can stay on the field all downs where Harris is situational.

 

So if the top 3 pass rushers are gone I think I'd rather go cb in the first and pass rusher in the second. I also really like Solomon as a football player and wouldn't be mad with that pick. I also wouldn't be surprised with a WR in the first. 

I'm with you, the more I watch Harris the less excited I am - and it's going the opposite way with tj watt

[Boddiebroadus]

13 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

I'm with you, the more I watch Harris the less excited I am - and it's going the opposite way with tj watt

Can't find a lot of film on watt but he reminds me of KC. Just don't like undersized pass rushers unless they're an absolute freak athlete and he's not. 

[rossihunter2]

4 minutes ago, Boddiebroadus said:

Can't find a lot of film on watt but he reminds me of KC. Just don't like undersized pass rushers unless they're an absolute freak athlete and he's not. 

He doesn't look undersized when I watch him... the way I did it was put on vince biegel tape or OL vs Wisconsin tape and just look out for number 42

[Boddiebroadus]

35 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

He doesn't look undersized when I watch him... the way I did it was put on vince biegel tape or OL vs Wisconsin tape and just look out for number 42

K watched the tape vs lsu. A lot of run plays but he's a good football player. He's not a first round talent and maybe a second imo. I think the name helps him. He's undersized at 240 but he's tall so he can add size. But I didn't see anything amazing just a lot of sound football. I do hate he's so flat footed off the line but I'm just nit picking. I feel like also don't wanna like him lol so I could be just looking at his short comings. 

[Boddiebroadus]

Watched Harold Landry's tape vs fsu. I like him a lot and I agree would be a steal in the 2nd. I wish he had some type of pass rush moves. He engages the tackle then try's to fight him off instead of going in with a move in mind. Besides that he has good size and speed 

[rossihunter2]

32 minutes ago, Boddiebroadus said:

Watched Harold Landry's tape vs fsu. I like him a lot and I agree would be a steal in the 2nd. I wish he had some type of pass rush moves. He engages the tackle then try's to fight him off instead of going in with a move in mind. Besides that he has good size and speed 

moves are something that players can learn - sounds like i really need to watch landry -havent looked at any tape of his yet

[JoeyFlex5]

3 hours ago, Boddiebroadus said:

Watched Harold Landry's tape vs fsu. I like him a lot and I agree would be a steal in the 2nd. I wish he had some type of pass rush moves. He engages the tackle then try's to fight him off instead of going in with a move in mind. Besides that he has good size and speed 

he tends to beat tackles before he engages and does so with actual football moves rather than just blowing past on pure speed, the guy puts on some moves but thats mostly foot quickness, he does need to learn some better hand moves. what i like about him is he is undersized but shows great speed to power conversion for his size and he bends very well with great burst, i think he can skate by on that alone for 8+ sacks a year as a DPR 

 

5 hours ago, Boddiebroadus said:

k so the more I watch Harris the more I dislike him. He's a very talented pass rusher but that's it. He plays weak and gives up all the time on run plays. I don't want him as a raven. 

Now I don't really like takk as a pass rusher but he is a good football player. He plays hard and he's good against the run. He's a freak athlete and might be able to develope into a great player. He can stay on the field all downs where Harris is situational.

 

So if the top 3 pass rushers are gone I think I'd rather go cb in the first and pass rusher in the second. I also really like Solomon as a football player and wouldn't be mad with that pick. I also wouldn't be surprised with a WR in the first. 

ehh i gotta disagree there. he doesnt do great against the run but hes also a bit on the small side so its understandable. but as far as straight up pass rush talent goes hes one of the better ones for sure, doesnt look like a rookie NFL edge rusher because hes got really refined hand usage and a violent punch and inside swim and rip moves, and he may have the fastest first step in the class. 

the only thing he really lacks is flexibility and bend. he has a bit of a bend but hes a bit stiff and its inconsistent and he struggles to keep his balance on occasion when hes flying around the corner, but he can fly off that ball and beat the hell out of some OTs with his hands. 

takk on the other hand gets engaged with the tackle and does nothing, im not sure how he got first round hype because ive seen him stonewalled more than any edge rusher in this class, people hammer ozzie about the KC pick but takk is essentially the same guy but far more stiff, slightly less explosive and a bit bigger.

[Boddiebroadus]

37 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

he tends to beat tackles before he engages and does so with actual football moves rather than just blowing past on pure speed, the guy puts on some moves but thats mostly foot quickness, he does need to learn some better hand moves. what i like about him is he is undersized but shows great speed to power conversion for his size and he bends very well with great burst, i think he can skate by on that alone for 8+ sacks a year as a DPR 

 

ehh i gotta disagree there. he doesnt do great against the run but hes also a bit on the small side so its understandable. but as far as straight up pass rush talent goes hes one of the better ones for sure, doesnt look like a rookie NFL edge rusher because hes got really refined hand usage and a violent punch and inside swim and rip moves, and he may have the fastest first step in the class. 

the only thing he really lacks is flexibility and bend. he has a bit of a bend but hes a bit stiff and its inconsistent and he struggles to keep his balance on occasion when hes flying around the corner, but he can fly off that ball and beat the hell out of some OTs with his hands. 

takk on the other hand gets engaged with the tackle and does nothing, im not sure how he got first round hype because ive seen him stonewalled more than any edge rusher in this class, people hammer ozzie about the KC pick but takk is essentially the same guy but far more stiff, slightly less explosive and a bit bigger.

I agree with Harris as being one of the top pure pass rushers but that's all he can do. He quits on run plays and has no pursuit. He seems almost selfish as a player cause if he's not getting the sack then he doesn't care. (May be totally not true) that's just what I see as a more than casual fan. 

Tak on the other hand is no where near the skill that Harris has but he goes all out on every play. He gets his sacks with just pure effort and fight. I like that in a football player. Without knowing too much about him but players like that can be coached up but he is for sure a project. 

As for Thomas, I just watched most of his bowl game and dude is smart and strong. He diagnosed a few screens so quickly I was very impressed. He does rarely rush for the edge and he for sure would need to work on that. But he extends very well and fights through double teams. I like him a lot but maybe not enough to say we "need" him.