2017 edge rusher

[Sami84]

1 minute ago, Drew P said:

Correct. Keep in mind most Defenses play a "base" personnel package around 35% of the time. So i think the 3-4 vs. 4-3 scheme is sometimes irrelevant these days with the pass happy league

 

true..i think reddick would be off the board though if we traded back..i think willis is a late first round pick and if ozzie could grab a 2nd or 3rd plus a 4th ( depending on how far back they go) i think they would prefer that.

[rmw10]

39 minutes ago, Sami84 said:

I think we're trading back and taking jordan willis.

I think hes the most underrated prospect in the draft and with the highest ceiling.

 

What have you seen that makes you like Willis so much?  The combine numbers are awfully impressive, but I'm not seeing anything close to that on the tape.

[Sami84]

6 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

What have you seen that makes you like Willis so much?  The combine numbers are awfully impressive, but I'm not seeing anything close to that on the tape.

kansas states scheme IMHO. Made tonnes of plays. Will be let loose as a 3-4 go get em player

[rossihunter2]

1 hour ago, Sami84 said:

kansas states scheme IMHO. Made tonnes of plays. Will be let loose as a 3-4 go get em player

he just doesnt look as quick or athletic on tape as the combine suggests he would be - he's incredibly polished with some good instincts but I don't see a 1st rounder on tape - he's a good clean prospect but not someone who seems like he'll be dominant or a game-wrecker at the next level - on tape he looks pretty much like a late 2nd/3rd rounder with a great combine but in a class with such depth at the top i think he should be a late 2nd round pick but he'll go higher than that because of the combine hype

[rmw10]

2 hours ago, Sami84 said:

kansas states scheme IMHO. Made tonnes of plays. Will be let loose as a 3-4 go get em player

I just don't see it.  Looks like a solid pass rusher but I never saw him make tons of plays or use great moves or anything like that.  Think the combine numbers are hyping him way above where he should go.

[ravensnation5220]

@JoeyFlex5 Thought youd find this very interesting. https://www.fanragsports.com/nfl/updated-look-edge-defender-class-2017-nfl-draft/amp/

I have to think Derek Barnett may only have one true thing hes good at. Hes a one demensional edge bender. A very good one at that though. The lack of burst off the snap is worrisome though 

The guy that made this list also made a video with Matt Waldman in the RSP film room on Carl Lawson. Its very detail orriented breakdown and I learned a lot and made me have another perspective when evaluating edge rushers

Edited April 23 by ravensnation5220

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, ravensnation5220 said:

@JoeyFlex5 Thought youd find this very interesting. https://www.fanragsports.com/nfl/updated-look-edge-defender-class-2017-nfl-draft/amp/

I have to think Derek Barnett may only have one true thing hes good at. Hes a one demensional edge bender. A very good one at that though. The lack of burst off the snap is worrisome though 

The guy that made this list also made a video with Matt Waldman in the RSP film room on Carl Lawson. Its very detail orriented breakdown and I learned a lot and made me have another perspective when evaluating edge rushers

The fact that he has Solomon Thomas in the second tier of edge rushers makes me really struggle to take it serious.  I don't even see Thomas as an edge guy, seems like most agree. 

[ravensnation5220]

2 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

The fact that he has Solomon Thomas in the second tier of edge rushers makes me really struggle to take it serious.  I don't even see Thomas as an edge guy, seems like most agree. 

Like he said in the article and uve heard you refer to this before is the fact that Thomas never really played the edge much at Stanford. He rarely got opportunities yet his traits say he could play on the edge. Maybe more 4-3 DE than a linebacker but i just think the consensus opinion about his being a 3tech is how well he looked at Stanford in that position. 

[JoeyFlex5]

39 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

Like he said in the article and uve heard you refer to this before is the fact that Thomas never really played the edge much at Stanford. He rarely got opportunities yet his traits say he could play on the edge. Maybe more 4-3 DE than a linebacker but i just think the consensus opinion about his being a 3tech is how well he looked at Stanford in that position. 

I just don't see the skillset though, if he's playing 43de in base and sliding to 3T on passing downs then I could see it, but that's not really an edge guy imo, to me an edge guy is a guy who's gonna be rushing the qb off the edge, like I think Malik McDowell is a DE in a base package but slides inside on passing downs, nobodies calling him an edge player

[ravensnation5220]

19 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I just don't see the skillset though, if he's playing 43de in base and sliding to 3T on passing downs then I could see it, but that's not really an edge guy imo, to me an edge guy is a guy who's gonna be rushing the qb off the edge, like I think Malik McDowell is a DE in a base package but slides inside on passing downs, nobodies calling him an edge player

Ya true, well a lot of people have differing opinions. I lile him because i know he studies the tape and is a big believer in Derek Rivers. Rivers doesnt get the attention he deserves because hes an fcs guy but he has phenomonal pass rush traits. Hes explosive and is one of the best pure edge benders in this class

[RavensFanMania]

On 4/19/2017 at 3:34 PM, rmw10 said:

I just don't see it.  Looks like a solid pass rusher but I never saw him make tons of plays or use great moves or anything like that.  Think the combine numbers are hyping him way above where he should go.

Ozzie tends to favor game tape over combine / pro days.  Doubt we take him in the first.

[PurpleHorseman]

I guess we can talk about all dline here?? I really like DJ Jones. He is 6'1 320 lbs very stout and very athletic and explosive. He can eat blockers and penetrate all the same. At over 320 lbs his testing numbers are very similar to Jonathan Allen.

Although he can play nosetackle his best fit in my opinion is a penetrator. In which case he will be better served playing closer to 295-300lbs. His testing numbers would be off charts if he were more of the penetrator size. Probably a 4.8-4.9 40. And would jump through the roof. In which case he would be a round2/3 player. Because his combine numbers would really jump! Could be good replacement  Timmy Jernigan 

Edited April 23 by PurpleHorseman

[Ravenskid52752]

Conversation

 

Ian Rapoport‏ @RapSheet

 

5 days pre-draft, #Florida DT prospect Caleb Brantley was charged in a 4/13 incident with misdemeanor assault, knocking a woman's tooth out

3:46 PM · Apr 23, 2017

[Ravenskid52752]

But there is two different stories hear with Caleb Brantley  incident on April 13,2017

New one- https://www.seccountry.com/florida/report-former-florida-dl-caleb-brantley-facing-misdemeanor-charge-allegedly-knocking-woman-unconscious/amp

The old one- https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.seccountry.com/florida/police-report-female-attacked-caleb-brantley/amp

So somebody is not telling the truth here.

Edited April 23 by Ravenskid52752

[ravensnation5220]

2 minutes ago, Ravenskid52752 said:

But there is two different stories hear with Caleb Brantley  incident on April 13,2017

New one- https://www.seccountry.com/florida/report-former-florida-dl-caleb-brantley-facing-misdemeanor-charge-allegedly-knocking-woman-unconscious/amp

The old one- https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.seccountry.com/florida/police-report-female-attacked-caleb-brantley/amp

So somebody is not telling the truth here.

Hmmmm. Thought something sounded fishy about the original report. The new one makes more sense considering the police report

[rossihunter2]

5 hours ago, ravensnation5220 said:

Hmmmm. Thought something sounded fishy about the original report. The new one makes more sense considering the police report

And Brantley is off the board...

[52520Andrew]

7 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I just don't see the skillset though, if he's playing 43de in base and sliding to 3T on passing downs then I could see it, but that's not really an edge guy imo, to me an edge guy is a guy who's gonna be rushing the qb off the edge, like I think Malik McDowell is a DE in a base package but slides inside on passing downs, nobodies calling him an edge player

I see another Michael Bennett with him, think a team will be really happy to get him and move him along the line

[JoeyFlex5]

1 hour ago, 52520Andrew said:

I see another Michael Bennett with him, think a team will be really happy to get him and move him along the line

He's definitely gonna need to move imo. If a DC can focus the game plan around him every week then it could be a highly effective front, he creates mismatches and penetration all over the place, but one thing I just don't expect him to do is edge rush effectively, he lacks the bend and flexibility. He's explosive, great closing speed, he shoves and rips and knifes gaps extremely well, but I simply don't see a skillset that would allow him to play the edge on passing down consistently 

[hn68wb4]

1 hour ago, rossihunter2 said:

And Brantley is off the board...

Honestly not upset about that, really didn't like him. People like to throw the low effort label at some players, but for some reason Brantley never got it, even though his tape is riddled with taking plays off and walking around.

[52520Andrew]

21 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

He's definitely gonna need to move imo. If a DC can focus the game plan around him every week then it could be a highly effective front, he creates mismatches and penetration all over the place, but one thing I just don't expect him to do is edge rush effectively, he lacks the bend and flexibility. He's explosive, great closing speed, he shoves and rips and knifes gaps extremely well, but I simply don't see a skillset that would allow him to play the edge on passing down consistently 

I guess it depends on if this person considers Michael Bennett an edge guy. I think Thomas can be an okay edge guy rushing the passer but I would much rather him inside because

A: I think he is better there

B: I value inside pressure more than edge pressure

Also McPhee doesn't really have good bend but he has been really effective in Chicago as an OLB. He isn't that Von Miller type player sure but he has been really good against the run and I think his pass rush is fairly solid. He doesn't finish sacks because he just doesn't have that bend but he gets his share of pressures at least. Like Thomas though I think McPhee is a lot more effective inside like he was with us in 2014. The Bears just don't have much depth at OLB (Sizzle and Doom in 2014) so they have not had that luxury hence why they drafted Floyd last year who can bend that edge and get them sacks. But Thomas being that SAM guy blowing up TEs in the run game and then shifting inside on passing downs is a very valuable player for just about anyone including us in the event he falls. 

I guess I haven't really addressed your thoughts on whether he can be an edge guy and I think it really depends. He could adjust to the position and be really physical against the run while getting solid pass rushing numbers or he could be like Quinton Coples was on the Jets and just not fit that scheme. I think the better question though is why you wouldn't move him around as you can get so much more out of him as opposed to just leaving him on the edge. If you just stick him at OLB you are not gonna be able to maximize his potential and even if he can handle the position, you are losing out with him as he can do more. Guess we will see who gets him and how they are going to use him since as with most players, the team that takes him will go a long way to determining how his career ends up.

[rmw10]

Per Zrebiec's recent article

"It sounds like the Ravens are pretty high on Houston’s Tyus Bowser and Kansas State’s Jordan Willis."

[JoeyFlex5]

3 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Per Zrebiec's recent article

"It sounds like the Ravens are pretty high on Houston’s Tyus Bowser and Kansas State’s Jordan Willis."

If bowser is there at 47 I'd consider him a huge dark horse for our pick. I don't see Willis being there though. I hope we don't touch him at all in the first, even if we get a big trade back

[rmw10]

Just now, JoeyFlex5 said:

If bowser is there at 47 I'd consider him a huge dark horse for our pick. I don't see Willis being there though. I hope we don't touch him at all in the first, even if we get a big trade back

Bowser is one of my two prospect crushes this year, so obviously I'd be on board.

[JoeyFlex5]

23 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Bowser is one of my two prospect crushes this year, so obviously I'd be on board.

He could stand to play lower and more controlled, but he's definitely got some in coachable traits, his blend of hand usage, burst, and relentless motor are very appealing. 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

44 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Per Zrebiec's recent article

"It sounds like the Ravens are pretty high on Houston’s Tyus Bowser and Kansas State’s Jordan Willis."

I'd be happy with either in the 2nd... so long as we go a different direction with our 1st pick obviously.

But wouldnt be too ecstatic if they were trade back targets for the 1st round. And id probably prefer Tim Williams to either of them -- though i think Bowser especially could have similar upside in terms of his athletic traits.... and doesnt come with same baggage.

 

Though ive also heard a bunch of smart people say that anything you hear at this point in the game about who a team likes/doesnt like is completely unreliable and most likely smoke screen. Theyre not suddenly going to realize they like a prospect or release their intentions.... and any team employee that would leak legitimate information about how the team views a prospect would likely be fired.

So, when i hear this i think immediately that its BS; someone kind of adding more importance than is really there to a throw away comment with a personnel guy like "what do you think about the day 2 pass rushers?... oh, Bowser and Willis look good" Breaking - Ravens high on Bowser and Willis!; or a guy connecting his own dots from the fact that we've recently met with these guys.

Who knows? We probably never will. Unless we draft one.

[Edgar]

What has you guys so convinced about him( Bowser) that early in round two?

 

[Ravenskid52752]

11 minutes ago, Edgar said:

What has you guys so convinced about him( Bowser) that early in round two?

 

First step quickness,burst and high motor High character plus he can cover out of that 3-4 spot as well. Him being 6'3 almost 250 pounds with 4.6 speed to go along with 6.75 3 cone drill is very appealing to go along with good tape 

[JoeyFlex5]

14 minutes ago, Edgar said:

What has you guys so convinced about him( Bowser) that early in round two?

 

Strong tape showing good traits. 

Great first step, relentless pursuit and motor, very good hand usage with room to grow, violent style, decisive, good disengage in a variety of ways, closes in on the ball very well, good size and athleticism, good ball vision and awareness. 

Only knock I've seen myself is his tendency to play high and a little reckless. He needs to play lower and more flexible and keep himself tighter to the pocket, sometimes he plays too fast and loses himself and he ends up relying on his motor. 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

17 minutes ago, Edgar said:

What has you guys so convinced about him( Bowser) that early in round two?

 

Well the athleticism jumps off. Burst, closing speed, power -- its all there. Hes got natural bend.

Pretty good bull rush already and can jolt blockers off balance with his punch. Doesnt have the most extensive tool kit, but has the ability to win inside or outside. His speed will often get tackles to panic with their footwork and over step to flatten his rushing arc, and hes got a real quick step back inside to win. Hes got pretty long arms and good tackle radius. Hes a finisher.

Some of it is a projection for sure... but a lot of the unteachable traits are there and his instincts for how to pass rush are pretty advanced for such a raw prospect. With the right coaching where he learns some better technique and expands his move set; and he starts to understand why he does some of the things he seems to naturally understand and do anyways -- that light bulb can really come on for him and he could be a terror off the edge.

Not to mention he already is passable dropping into coverage on natural ability alone. Hes a former basketball player so hes got light feet and very good footwork for hanging with TEs in coverage. Not many of the high end pass rushers in this draft have the experience or the athletic traits to project excelling in coverage which can limit their potential and effectiveness. That fact that he could be dropping or rushing on any passing play gives him the advantage of being unpredictable... and keeps him on the field.

And hes actually pretty good against the run too. Pretty disciplined and very good footwork. Needs improvement there and his size hurts him. Struggles sometimes to disengage against bigger players.

 

The only negatives i see are that hes a little on the small side which could hurt him against NFL size.... and that hes relatively raw. But the drastic improvement he showed this year over the prior tells me that he absorbs coaching and will improve. And i dont think hes played football all that long, so the potential upside is intriguing.

[rmw10]

I'm glad people see what I see in Bowser.  His tape is a little frustrating because of how little opportunity Houston gave him to actually rush the passer.  However, when you do get the opportunity to see him go after the QB, you can see so many of the prerequisite traits there.  I believe that if you can find a guy to teach him a couple of pass rush moves, and I believe we have that in Wink, then he could be a terror.

People already mentioned the coverage aspect and that's what really sold me on him.  He already has a day 1 role because his hips are so fluid in coverage for a LB.  He should be able to play some ILB as well.  I compare him to Jamie Collins.