2017 edge rusher

[Gruntled Ravens Fan]

1 minute ago, rmw10 said:

I believe that was definitely last year's number.   ESPN has him at 252 now which would be that 15 (actually, 16) pound gain before the season.  I have no problems at all with the skinny frame.  It's just going to be something that works against him on occasion.  I'll take the positive he provides over the occasional negative every single day though.

I'm not too worried about him setting the edge in the run game, we still have Orr and Moseley who would help. I'd definitely prefer him be an elite pass rusher like Dumervil in his prime more so than say a Ryan Kerrigan who is an ok pass rusher but a great run defender.

[rmw10]

1 minute ago, RaineV1 said:

The official heights and weights of college players is always iffy before they're measured at the combine. We'd have to wait to know for sure how big Williams is. That said, Williams definitely doesn't look small next to the people around him.

For sure.  He looks a lot bigger this year than he did last year - his midsection in particular.  It's still not the size frame that you typically see out of our OLBs (e.g. Suggs, Judon, etc.) but it's trending in the right direction.  I wouldn't even worry about him adding more weight assuming his is at that 250 range though.  You're drafting him for the pass rush.

[rmw10]

3 minutes ago, Gruntled Ravens Fan said:

I'm not too worried about him setting the edge in the run game, we still have Orr and Moseley who would help. I'd definitely prefer him be an elite pass rusher like Dumervil in his prime more so than say a Ryan Kerrigan who is an ok pass rusher but a great run defender.

Oh for sure.  I think he can set the edge - just that problems will be present on occasion.  He's a pass rusher through and through and I wouldn't even consider trying to change that.

[BmoreBird22]

I think it was Matt Miller (maybe a scout he spoke to) who said that Williams being just an edge rusher is one of the biggest myth's of this year's draft. Miller/the scout felt his edge setting ability was highly underrated and would surprise a lot of people in the next level who sleep on it.

[Gruntled Ravens Fan]

4 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Oh for sure.  I think he can set the edge - just that problems will be present on occasion.  He's a pass rusher through and through and I wouldn't even consider trying to change that.

Yeah hopefully if we get him we don't have a Paul Kruger type of mistake of trying to get him heavier than he should have been. Whatever happened to Za'darious (?) Smith? I remember him getting a few sacks last year and looking like a future impact player.  

[rmw10]

2 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I think it was Matt Miller (maybe a scout he spoke to) who said that Williams being just an edge rusher is one of the biggest myth's of this year's draft. Miller/the scout felt his edge setting ability was highly underrated and would surprise a lot of people in the next level who sleep on it.

I think it's more that there are inconsistencies in that part of his game.  I think the myth is that he's only a pass rusher and can't do it at all.

[allblackraven]

Re Tim Williams' size - word is that he really hit the gym hard before this season and his playing weight atm is 253 lbs.

[JoeyFlex5]

unless connor cook is better in the pros than he was in college, then it looks like were sitting at 16th. 

i like tim williams, but im really hoping he LIGHTS IT UP at the combine, makes teams ignore his character concerns, and hopefully pushes derek barnett to 16th. if williams falls to 16th id be happy with that as well. 

the question is though... would we take him?

[Gruntled Ravens Fan]

23 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

unless connor cook is better in the pros than he was in college, then it looks like were sitting at 16th. 

i like tim williams, but im really hoping he LIGHTS IT UP at the combine, makes teams ignore his character concerns, and hopefully pushes derek barnett to 16th. if williams falls to 16th id be happy with that as well. 

the question is though... would we take him?

If our recent drafts are any indications, probably not. Apparently having "character concerns" is now a red flag for baltimore. Good thing Suggs was before John's time or else we would have never drafted him.

[rmw10]

33 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

unless connor cook is better in the pros than he was in college, then it looks like were sitting at 16th. 

i like tim williams, but im really hoping he LIGHTS IT UP at the combine, makes teams ignore his character concerns, and hopefully pushes derek barnett to 16th. if williams falls to 16th id be happy with that as well. 

the question is though... would we take him?

At least in Williams' case, we have Ozzie's Alabama connections that I'm sure could shed a ton of light on him.  I think we shy away from "problem children" too often, but if we passed on Williams, I think I'd actually trust the FO on that one.

[JoeyFlex5]

23 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

At least in Williams' case, we have Ozzie's Alabama connections that I'm sure could shed a ton of light on him.  I think we shy away from "problem children" too often, but if we passed on Williams, I think I'd actually trust the FO on that one.

thats a good point. a gun possession at this point in his life is no small matter. but im always of the belief that a 20 year old kid doesnt know what the hell hes doing more often than not and all it takes is a firm kick in the rear to set him straight. 

[JoeyFlex5]

34 minutes ago, Gruntled Ravens Fan said:

If our recent drafts are any indications, probably not. Apparently having "character concerns" is now a red flag for baltimore. Good thing Suggs was before John's time or else we would have never drafted him.

didnt suggs fall because of his combine? i thought the character things came a few years after he was drafted

[Gruntled Ravens Fan]

5 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

didnt suggs fall because of his combine? i thought the character things came a few years after he was drafted

"http://www.scout.com/nfl/story/81006-scouting-report-terrell-suggs"  Heres the best link for his profile. I do think he had a problems which would probably get him on John's do not draft list.

[hn68wb4]

15 minutes ago, Gruntled Ravens Fan said:

"http://www.scout.com/nfl/story/81006-scouting-report-terrell-suggs"  Heres the best link for his profile. I do think he had a problems which would probably get him on John's do not draft list.

Before being drafted I don't recall Suggs having any big red flags, I think he was just really immature - as that scouting profile indicates. He's still pretty darn immature but I believe his combine is what dropped him to our lap. I believe if the same thing happened today we'd still take a player like him. I don't think there was anything too damning about him.

[Gruntled Ravens Fan]

13 minutes ago, hn68wb4 said:

Before being drafted I don't recall Suggs having any big red flags, I think he was just really immature - as that scouting profile indicates. He's still pretty darn immature but I believe his combine is what dropped him to our lap. I believe if the same thing happened today we'd still take a player like him. I don't think there was anything too damning about him.

Oh I didn't know that. My mistake. The point I was trying to make is we let great players go by us because we are worried about their character. An excellent example would be of Burfict. He had absolutely no off-field incidents while his biggest red flags were too many personal fouls and a terrible interview at the combine. If we could have gotten him in the 6-7th round that year we would have an elite MLB for our team and I doubt he would act up because we have a strong locker room.

[BmoreBird22]

11 minutes ago, Gruntled Ravens Fan said:

Oh I didn't know that. My mistake. The point I was trying to make is we let great players go by us because we are worried about their character. An excellent example would be of Burfict. He had absolutely no off-field incidents while his biggest red flags were too many personal fouls and a terrible interview at the combine. If we could have gotten him in the 6-7th round that year we would have an elite MLB for our team and I doubt he would act up because we have a strong locker room.

The issue with Burficht was not only the personal fouls (lots of unnecessary roughness), but also a ton of on field antics where it seemed like he felt he was bigger than the team or the game. He also gained a lot of weight in his junior year and seemed to get lazy, had friction with his coaches, and bombed the combine (testing and interviews). He was pretty much the perfect storm of issues.

[Gruntled Ravens Fan]

4 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

The issue with Burficht was not only the personal fouls (lots of unnecessary roughness), but also a ton of on field antics where it seemed like he felt he was bigger than the team or the game. He also gained a lot of weight in his junior year and seemed to get lazy, had friction with his coaches, and bombed the combine (testing and interviews). He was pretty much the perfect storm of issues.

I remember him and his coaches at ASU not getting along, but I still think we should have gotten him instead of Tommy Streeter in the 6th round of that year. But hindsight is always easier than foresight. I just hope we don't make the same mistake again and let a player pass us because of character concerns.

[Davesta]

Tim Williams looks so skinny in the playoff game..

[Edgar]

I haven't seen anyone block Malik McDowell yet. ...from any position.

Just an animal who never stops working and routinely takes on and beats double teams from the nose.

Does tend to lower his head and lose the play at times and I've only seen three games but this guy is a dominant athlete/pass rusher.

[allblackraven]

26 minutes ago, Edgar said:

I haven't seen anyone block Malik McDowell yet. ...from any position.

Just an animal who never stops working and routinely takes on and beats double teams from the nose.

Does tend to lower his head and lose the play at times and I've only seen three games but this guy is a dominant athlete/pass rusher.

He isn't going to be edge rusher in NFL

[JoeyFlex5]

29 minutes ago, Edgar said:

I haven't seen anyone block Malik McDowell yet. ...from any position.

Just an animal who never stops working and routinely takes on and beats double teams from the nose.

Does tend to lower his head and lose the play at times and I've only seen three games but this guy is a dominant athlete/pass rusher.

hes a bit like gerald mccoy, long and explosive and knifes gaps like nobodies business. mcdowell is going to be a monster on a 4-3 team especially after he adds some muscle to his frame. i could see him being more disruptive than productive starting out, i think hes gonna knife gaps well but he doesnt have the mass to maintain a straight path so i think he will constantly get there a step late, however if he can add 10-15 lbs and not lose a step, watch out. 

but as ABR said, hes not an edge rusher at all.

[Edgar]

18 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

 

 

16 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

hes a bit like gerald mccoy, long and explosive and knifes gaps like nobodies business. mcdowell is going to be a monster on a 4-3 team especially after he adds some muscle to his frame. i could see him being more disruptive than productive starting out, i think hes gonna knife gaps well but he doesnt have the mass to maintain a straight path so i think he will constantly get there a step late, however if he can add 10-15 lbs and not lose a step, watch out. 

but as ABR said, hes not an edge rusher at all.

He can play DE.

[Cillmatic]

Rather not take Tim Williams, dude looks like he'll be zero help against the run. I'd rather not spend our second highest pick since 2006 on a skinny Elvis Dumervil. Harris or Barnett would be pretty cool though.

Edited January 2 by Cillmatic

[JoeyFlex5]

46 minutes ago, Cillmatic said:

Rather not take Tim Williams, dude looks like he'll be zero help against the run. I'd rather not spend our second highest pick since 2006 on a skinny Elvis Dumervil. Harris or Barnett would be pretty cool though.

I don't think you've watched him much if you think that. Its a common misconception because he's actually done very well against the run this year since he beefed up 20 something pounds

[allblackraven]

57 minutes ago, Cillmatic said:

Rather not take Tim Williams, dude looks like he'll be zero help against the run. I'd rather not spend our second highest pick since 2006 on a skinny Elvis Dumervil. Harris or Barnett would be pretty cool though.

Is that the assessment based on how Williams looks like?

Because it sure does seem like you watched exactly zero of his games.

Edited January 2 by allblackraven

[rmw10]

6 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

I don't think you've watched him much if you think that. Its a common misconception because he's actually done very well against the run this year since he beefed up 20 something pounds

 

2 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

Is that the assessment based on how Williams looks like?

Because it sure doesn't seem like you watched exactly zero of his games.

That's Cill for you. He speaks in absolutes and certainties, yet comes off like he's watched exactly 0 snaps of said player. 

[JoeyFlex5]

2 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

Is that the assessment based on how Williams looks like?

Because it sure doesn't seem like you watched exactly zero of his games.

As a matter of fact.. Harris who he said he would prefer, sounds a lot more like what he described.

[allblackraven]

1 minute ago, rmw10 said:

 

That's Cill for you. He speaks in absolutes and certainties, yet comes off like he's watched exactly 0 snaps of said player. 

Lol, I know and I don't normally see what he says but since Flex quoted him, I did and had to defend my boy.

[Cillmatic]

1 hour ago, allblackraven said:

Is that the assessment based on how Williams looks like?

Because it sure does seem like you watched exactly zero of his games.

Pretty sure I was one of the first people to even talk about Williams, I was talking about him as one of the dudes to watch. He's a pass rusher first and foremost. He's the weakest run defender in that line, albeit it is probably the top D-line in football, which makes me a little more concerned. Plus the fact that he was dumb enough to get a gun charge is odd, I thought we were complaining about Harbaugh keeping dumb players, this forum changes its mind every other week on the that though so who knows...

[Cillmatic]

1 hour ago, rmw10 said:

 

That's Cill for you. He speaks in absolutes and certainties, yet comes off like he's watched exactly 0 snaps of said player. 

Ironically, this statement is in itself an absolute and certainty. Get outta here Obi Wan.