2017 edge rusher

[Jacquouille]

1 hour ago, RaineV1 said:

I doubt that happens, but I would be thrilled if it did. Miller saying he could fall into the teens, which would be a dream come true. The Ravens would grab him without a second thought.

Don't see that either but still worth sharing.

[JoeyFlex5]

3 hours ago, Jacquouille said:

http://draftwire.usatoday.com/2017/03/05/jonathan-allen-headed-for-a-draft-day-fall/

Welp.

If he falls all the way to 16 then I'd be scared to take him lol. A talent like that only falls for serious reasons 

[rossihunter2]

38 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

If he falls all the way to 16 then I'd be scared to take him lol. A talent like that only falls for serious reasons 

Yeah that's what I was thinking lol - there's a reason a guy falls that far and it's not because of a feeling etc. The more I watch of him the lower I think his ceiling is but he's still a phenomenal and pretty safe prospect

[Jacquouille]

1 hour ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

If he falls all the way to 16 then I'd be scared to take him lol. A talent like that only falls for serious reasons 

Idk, feels like the problem is a little overrated. Shaq had the same and he's playing. Worst case we take him and let him sit for a year to recover.

[JoeyFlex5]

Just now, Jacquouille said:

Idk, feels like the problem is a little overrated. Shaq had the same and he's playing. Worst case we take him and let him sit for a year to recover.

i feel like a guy like jonathan allen, who has been a legit consideration for first overall type of talent(myles garrett would be hard for anyone to bypass) falls to the teens, then it feels like more than just sitting for part of his rookie year, possible long term implications maybe? 

but then again, it probably is overrated, this isnt a jaylon smith deal where everyone saw a horrible injury that doctors speculated could prevent him from ever playing at a high level. still concerning though. plus with him being a DT its not like we would be bringing a guy who is gonna change the franchise like we would if we brought in an elite edge or corner. 

dont get me wrong, jonathan allen is a nfl ready game wrecker and i think if he falls out of the top 5 youd be crazy not to take him, injury or not, im just saying that there definitely is some concern if a talent like that falls so far, and the risk would feel pretty heavy for a team that doesnt exactly need a DT. but then this draft is incredibly deep at edge and db so if we were to take a risk on a supreme talent the first round would certainly be the place.

[Jacquouille]

Has anyone ever heard of Ifeadi Odenigbo? I learnt about him at the Combine and wanted to give him a try, loved his tape.

Edited March 8 by Jacquouille

[Underdogsontop!]

Well guys.... with doom gone I'm pretty sure we'll finally get a pass rusher in the 1st or 2nd round. Like a lot of people I'm hoping its Barnett in the 1st. I wonder who's penciled in dooms spot for now?? My guess is Matt Judon. Maybe Zadarious Smith might unleash the beast this year? Lots of questions....

Edited March 9 by Underdogsontop!

[RaineV1]

18 minutes ago, Underdogsontop! said:

Well guys.... with doom gone I'm pretty sure we'll finally get a pass rusher in the 1st or 2nd round. Like a lot of people I'm hoping its Barnett in the 1st. I wonder who's penciled in dooms spot for now?? My guess is Matt Judon. Maybe Zadarious Smith might unleash the beast this year? Lots of questions....

Judon is probably penciled in at the moment.

[Boddiebroadus]

Just watched Barnett's music city bowl game. Damn we need that dude. 

[purpletide]

On 2/28/2017 at 11:38 AM, Willbacker said:

I'm probally the only one that thinks Ryan Anderson is the better edge coming out of Bama.

Criminally underrated to say the least. Not sure if I could call Anderson or Williams better than the other, purely off of the fact that I've only watched film of Williams

[allblackraven]

On 01/03/2017 at 5:38 AM, Willbacker said:

I'm probally the only one that thinks Ryan Anderson is the better edge coming out of Bama.

Williams is still better as a pure pass rusher but I'd take Anderson over him any time. Complete player, dude is a monster. He is my favourite player in the entire draft this year.

[purpletide]

3 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

Williams is still better as a pure pass rusher but I'd take Anderson over him any time. Complete player, dude is a monster. He is my favourite player in the entire draft this year.

Projected second rounder too from what I see. I like his ability as a pass rusher and dropping back in coverage (something Tim doesn't do), also has confidence and a certain hatefulness on the field, good attitude. And unlike Tim, no character concerns (all be it manageable).

[JoeyFlex5]

On 3/8/2017 at 11:09 PM, Underdogsontop! said:

Well guys.... with doom gone I'm pretty sure we'll finally get a pass rusher in the 1st or 2nd round. Like a lot of people I'm hoping its Barnett in the 1st. I wonder who's penciled in dooms spot for now?? My guess is Matt Judon. Maybe Zadarious Smith might unleash the beast this year? Lots of questions....

ZDS even with 6 sacks as a rookie didn't look good, he treats every play like a sprint and runs himself clean out of the play. I'm not sure he has an NFL skill set, stiff, no bend, no change of direction. Judon looked far better in his rookie year and clearly has better traits, his instincts were off the charts at times, you don't often see rookie edge rushers with a clear path to the qb break off his rush because he sees the screen developing, he did that pretty often

[Jacquouille]

I'm coming around the idea of Taco Charlton at 16, especially if Barnett is gone. I'm a bit worried by his lack of explosiveness but he uses his body so well!

[rossihunter2]

24 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

I'm coming around the idea of Taco Charlton at 16, especially if Barnett is gone. I'm a bit worried by his lack of explosiveness but he uses his body so well!

i know so many people keep saying it in the media and on those boards but i really dont see his value at 16 - id take barnett, williams, harris, watt (and reddick if you count him) all ahead of him - in that sense id be very pleased if he went before our pick because he'll push someone better back to us

[Jacquouille]

7 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

i know so many people keep saying it in the media and on those boards but i really dont see his value at 16 - id take barnett, williams, harris, watt (and reddick if you count him) all ahead of him - in that sense id be very pleased if he went before our pick because he'll push someone better back to us

I don't know where I'd rank him compared to those guys but I think he really fits what we're looking for in a pass rusher: dense, physical, not necessarily explosive but really smart and agressive.

[ravensnation5220]

16 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

I don't know where I'd rank him compared to those guys but I think he really fits what we're looking for in a pass rusher: dense, physical, not necessarily explosive but really smart and agressive.

I don't see the aggressiveness on tape. At least not every play. That's the biggest issue with him in my eyes. He tries to be a finesse player too often. I don't think he fits a 3-4 scheme. Maybe as a 5 tech but not an outside linebacker. He doesn't move well enough in space

[rossihunter2]

13 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

I don't know where I'd rank him compared to those guys but I think he really fits what we're looking for in a pass rusher: dense, physical, not necessarily explosive but really smart and agressive.

i think those other guys fit better if im honest - derek barnett has polish and doggedness similar to suggs coming out and bends the edge so well - he therefore has the perfect tutor to become even better while crushing off the other edge to suggs, tim williams has elite burst and has some nasty pass rush moves already, harris probably has the quickest first step in the draft and can take over games albeit is a little inconsistent, watt has maybe a higher ceiling than the other guys even - he crushed the combine and already has an incredibly high iq in the run and passing game although he can sometimes get himself a little tangled at times

with taco im not sure i really see the fit - i dont think i can see him as a 3-4 olb - he looks like someone who will have to play with their hand in the ground to get under tackles and use that initial 3 point stance to aid his burst off the line because he's not explosive enough to beat a good tackle in space - i imagine he'll be a good player in the league but im not sure he fits the ravens system and honestly im not sure he will become a premier rusher - i think he will be a solid starter but im not sure i see elite rushing potential which is what we are missing - finding someone to set the edge is much easier than finding someone who can poleaxe the qb

[Jacquouille]

4 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

I don't see the aggressiveness on tape. At least not every play. That's the biggest issue with him in my eyes. He tries to be a finesse player too often. I don't think he fits a 3-4 scheme. Maybe as a 5 tech but not an outside linebacker. He doesn't move well enough in space

I'd disagree, he seemed confortable rushing from a stand-up position. His FSU tape is a clinic, great run defense, victimized Johnson on passing plays with a great combo of bullrush/outside bend/spin move. Honestly his spin move is really great. It's not Harris-esque but he sets it up so perfectly, he forces the OT to guess the whole time and end up winning because the OT's never ready for what's coming.

[Jacquouille]

Just now, rossihunter2 said:

i think those other guys fit better if im honest - derek barnett has polish and doggedness similar to suggs coming out and bends the edge so well - he therefore has the perfect tutor to become even better while crushing off the other edge to suggs, tim williams has elite burst and has some nasty pass rush moves already, harris probably has the quickest first step in the draft and can take over games albeit is a little inconsistent, watt has maybe a higher ceiling than the other guys even - he crushed the combine and already has an incredibly high iq in the run and passing game although he can sometimes get himself a little tangled at times

with taco im not sure i really see the fit - i dont think i can see him as a 3-4 olb - he looks like someone who will have to play with their hand in the ground to get under tackles and use that initial 3 point stance to aid his burst off the line because he's not explosive enough to beat a good tackle in space - i imagine he'll be a good player in the league but im not sure he fits the ravens system and honestly im not sure he will become a premier rusher - i think he will be a solid starter but im not sure i see elite rushing potential which is what we are missing - finding someone to set the edge is much easier than finding someone who can poleaxe the qb

See my comments above, I would take him after Barnett, no doubt. But in all honesty their styles are pretty similar in some ways.

[ravensnation5220]

10 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

I'd disagree, he seemed confortable rushing from a stand-up position. His FSU tape is a clinic, great run defense, victimized Johnson on passing plays with a great combo of bullrush/outside bend/spin move. Honestly his spin move is really great. It's not Harris-esque but he sets it up so perfectly, he forces the OT to guess the whole time and end up winning because the OT's never ready for what's coming.

His spin move is "ok" he doesn't really know when to use it though. It's pretty much his only move, otherwise he really needs to learn some disengaging moves. I see his potential but he's just so raw. Especially for a senior, and it's his only year as a starter. I've noticed a lot of the plays he makes us more due to poor blocking than him making the play, yes he still makes the play but is the competition he's up against. FSU has a terrible oline especially in pass blocking, and the right tackle for Ohio st didn't do much to try and stop him. Granted taco still made those plays. I see him as too much of a project and at 16 I want an instant impact player. Taco is not ready, not yet

[rossihunter2]

2 minutes ago, Jacquouille said:

I'd disagree, he seemed confortable rushing from a stand-up position. His FSU tape is a clinic, great run defense, victimized Johnson on passing plays with a great combo of bullrush/outside bend/spin move. Honestly his spin move is really great. It's not Harris-esque but he sets it up so perfectly, he forces the OT to guess the whole time and end up winning because the OT's never ready for what's coming.

ok i just watched the FSU tape and this is what i got from it - he was strong vs the run when he played vs the right tackle and he would bully any tight ends that tried to block him - he occasionally would get washed out of run plays or taken out by a pulling lineman or rb on the other side - you're right he victimized johnson who looked slow and spooked most of the time - on passing plays i saw a better first step than ive seen in other tape of his but it was inconsistent - i completely disagree about that spin move - it worked one time in that entire game - and he used 3/4 times - the first time it worked more out of surprise than good timing and violence - the next few times he used it he was stone-walled by the tackle who allowed him to disengage and he lost his leverage on the move and essentially just spun in place - his bull rush isnt that convincing and hes at his best when he can run his normal outside rush which was available all day against johnson - but johnson is not going to be a successful left tackle at the next level - even then when linemen got hands on he couldnt disengage

in terms of specific stats in the FSU game, he had one good outside move but i went back and watched it and its almost like johnson was asleep when the play started - theres a moment where he reacts slower than everyone else in the picture - and to be fair to charlton you do have to finish those plays but its a play you expect him to make - likewise some of his other "highlight reel" moments came on obvious busted protections or when he was being blocked by a tight end and he was at fault for florida's biggest play of the game which was the 3rd and 22 conversion by dalvin cook where he over pursued on his rush and bit on the draw when in that situation it was almost certainly going to be a run play and he ended up on his back and out of the play rather than sealing the edge where he should have been

he's a good prospect and i have a first round grade on him - but its a late first round grade because i dont think hes a player that steps in and instantly impacts his team - NFL tackles with good footwork will be very difficult for him to overcome - he'll get on the field because he's solid vs the run but you dont draft a guy to seal the edge at 16 - if you are drafting an edge guy at 16 you are drafting a pass rusher - id like taco on the team but not at 16

[ravensnation5220]

Just had a long look at Charles Harris. My initial impressions when I first saw him a whil back was that he had a bevy of moves and was technically sound. After watching him just now I realized he has a lot of work to do. He still has that rare first step and ability to bend the edge but he doesn't have as many pass rush moves as I once thought. He really only has 2. A rip move (inside or out) and his spin move. He needs to learn how to use his hands better in terms of placement. I still like what I saw, he's very disruptive I just thought he had more pass rush moves. I guess that's because everyone on here always labeled him as the most refined pass rusher which is simply not true. he's more raw than I thought. After all, he only picked up football in his junior year of high school which explains the 2 star recruit coming out

[Jacquouille]

29 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

Just had a long look at Charles Harris. My initial impressions when I first saw him a whil back was that he had a bevy of moves and was technically sound. After watching him just now I realized he has a lot of work to do. He still has that rare first step and ability to bend the edge but he doesn't have as many pass rush moves as I once thought. He really only has 2. A rip move (inside or out) and his spin move. He needs to learn how to use his hands better in terms of placement. I still like what I saw, he's very disruptive I just thought he had more pass rush moves. I guess that's because everyone on here always labeled him as the most refined pass rusher which is simply not true. he's more raw than I thought. After all, he only picked up football in his junior year of high school which explains the 2 star recruit coming out

He's definitely not the most refined. Barnett and Williams are more refined. But you have to appreciate when a prospect already offers some versatility in the ways he can win, when a guy offers several options that are going to force the OT to guess. 

[rossihunter2]

1 hour ago, ravensnation5220 said:

Just had a long look at Charles Harris. My initial impressions when I first saw him a whil back was that he had a bevy of moves and was technically sound. After watching him just now I realized he has a lot of work to do. He still has that rare first step and ability to bend the edge but he doesn't have as many pass rush moves as I once thought. He really only has 2. A rip move (inside or out) and his spin move. He needs to learn how to use his hands better in terms of placement. I still like what I saw, he's very disruptive I just thought he had more pass rush moves. I guess that's because everyone on here always labeled him as the most refined pass rusher which is simply not true. he's more raw than I thought. After all, he only picked up football in his junior year of high school which explains the 2 star recruit coming out

i've always said harris was an inconsistent performer who relied too much on his initial burst to beat tackles - so i agree that he's more of a project than id like and that's probably most of the reason why ive never been convinced of his value at 16

[ravensnation5220]

18 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

i've always said harris was an inconsistent performer who relied too much on his initial burst to beat tackles - so i agree that he's more of a project than id like and that's probably most of the reason why ive never been convinced of his value at 16

I think his inconsistencies were in a large part due to how he was used at mizzou, also the fact that mizzou couldn't stop the run to save their life didn't help either. I can see the value at 16 because pass rushers like him don't come around too often, and this draft is loaded with them. So if Barnett is gone at 16 and there aren't any clear bpa options he'd have to get strong consideration. Of course I'd rather trade back but I still wouldn't mind taking Harris. He's got a lot of potential, more than I once thought after seeing how much he can actually improve on 

[rossihunter2]

5 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

I think his inconsistencies were in a large part due to how he was used at mizzou, also the fact that mizzou couldn't stop the run to save their life didn't help either. I can see the value at 16 because pass rushers like him don't come around too often, and this draft is loaded with them. So if Barnett is gone at 16 and there aren't any clear bpa options he'd have to get strong consideration. Of course I'd rather trade back but I still wouldn't mind taking Harris. He's got a lot of potential, more than I once thought after seeing how much he can actually improve on 

In that sense I see him and watt as similar risk/reward picks (despite their vastly differing traits) high in the draft - but I also have tim Williams ahead of them both - the closer we get to the draft the more sure I am that Harris and watt won't be the pick at 16

[ravensnation5220]

15 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

In that sense I see him and watt as similar risk/reward picks (despite their vastly differing traits) high in the draft - but I also have tim Williams ahead of them both - the closer we get to the draft the more sure I am that Harris and watt won't be the pick at 16

Ya your probably right. I just like to convince myself some players could be worth the pick as the last 2 years they've come out and picked a player (Perriman and stanley) who I didn't think was worth their value. Although I was dead wrong on Stanley on that regard

[rossihunter2]

6 minutes ago, ravensnation5220 said:

Ya your probably right. I just like to convince myself some players could be worth the pick as the last 2 years they've come out and picked a player (Perriman and stanley) who I didn't think was worth their value. Although I was dead wrong on Stanley on that regard

honestly id be lying if i said i thought the pick would or should be stanley - i was 100% certain the pick would be either jalen ramsey or myles jack so i didnt really worry about evaluating linemen - oh how naive i was...

Edited March 18 by rossihunter2

[ravensnation5220]

18 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

honestly id be lying if i said i thought the pick would or should be stanley - i was 100% certain the pick would be either jalen ramsey or myles jack so i didnt really worry about evaluating linemen - oh how naive i was...

Ya pretty much the same for me lol. Another thing I never looked into last year was character and that ended up impacting our while draft, so I've been more focused on finding players who have A+ character this year as well