ravensnation5220

2017 edge rusher

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I was surprised to see we don't have this thread. There's a d line thread but no edge or pass rusher thread. 

We all know we need more edge rushers. Suggs and doom are on the wrong side of 30 and we don't have anyone in line to replace them long term. Judon is promising but he can't be out only answer. Z Smith is inconsistent and correa is still unknown. 

My top rushers for 2017

1. Myles garrett....no chance at him 

2. Derek Barnett - one of the most productive pass rushers in the country if not the most. Should be top 10 pick

3. Tim William -pass rush specialist. Top15 pick unless his character concerns are legit

4. Charles Harris - has an elite first step and spin move. Probably has the most pass rush moves of the bunch and most polished. Run defense is inconsistent but fixable. Top 20 pick

5. Carl lawson - has top 15 talent but his injury history is a concern. His run defense is another concern. Finally had a consistent healthy year however. 1st round pick (borderline)  

6. Takk McKinley - athletic phenom yet extremely raw. Has all the tools just has to put it all together still. Late 1st early 2nd round pick. 

Add on or comment on your favorite edge rushers. 

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Maybe a Demarcus Walker from Florida State although his grading/slotting in the draft vary greatly. I have seen anywhere from top 20-3rd round so I need to do some more digging.

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I'll add to the conversation these guys' stats (plus Charlton, Gilbert, Price, Walker and Smoot). I also included the hurries and TFLs which I found in every game's box score on ESPN. I never take stats too seriously as they don't tell you how hard was for a player to get pressures (offenses might rely almost entirely on the run game or on quick passes a la' BYU; how often a player is double-teamed,...). However, they might be useful to turn down common misperceptions concerning players skills or attitudes: I've seen many times Carl Lawson been associated with the term "inconsistent". How can a player with 24 hurries in 11 games (the only of the list to have registered >1 in every game, except for once) be labeled by such a term?
Nothing more than a quick overview.
I've also been trying to highlight each of these guys' pros and cons with the use of screenshots and GIFS but I find it annoying that every GIF keeps repeating itself without the possibility of being paused. Does any of you have a preferred GIF maker able to do so?

 

2017 top edge players.docx

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1 hour ago, Italian Raven said:

I'll add to the conversation these guys' stats (plus Charlton, Gilbert, Price, Walker and Smoot). I also included the hurries and TFLs which I found in every game's box score on ESPN. I never take stats too seriously as they don't tell you how hard was for a player to get pressures (offenses might rely almost entirely on the run game or on quick passes a la' BYU; how often a player is double-teamed,...). However, they might be useful to turn down common misperceptions concerning players skills or attitudes: I've seen many times Carl Lawson been associated with the term "inconsistent". How can a player with 24 hurries in 11 games (the only of the list to have registered >1 in every game, except for once) be labeled by such a term?
Nothing more than a quick overview.
I've also been trying to highlight each of these guys' pros and cons with the use of screenshots and GIFS but I find it annoying that every GIF keeps repeating itself without the possibility of being paused. Does any of you have a preferred GIF maker able to do so?

 

2017 top edge players.docx

I also noticed the 24 hurries, however, he's labeled inconsistent because of his college career. His only full year was this year so you still have to question his longevity. The talent is there and I have no doubt that this year shows good signs of improvement 

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2 hours ago, ravensnation5220 said:

I also noticed the 24 hurries, however, he's labeled inconsistent because of his college career. His only full year was this year so you still have to question his longevity. The talent is there and I have no doubt that this year shows good signs of improvement 

If it's because of the injuries I'd rather call him 'injury prone/unlucky'.. Inconsistent should be given to those who have 2-4 good games and then disappears for the rest of the season. Idk. 

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2 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

I've been watching whether Harold Landry from Boston college declares because he's an underrated prospect I absolutely love

i was trying to run through prospects yesterday to get a quick glimpse of guys and see who i liked, and harold landry was definitely one of them, im gonna have to watch more of him for sure.

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27 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

i was trying to run through prospects yesterday to get a quick glimpse of guys and see who i liked, and harold landry was definitely one of them, im gonna have to watch more of him for sure.

I really like Landry. He's one of the more impressive pass rushers I've seen because he simply does a lot of things well and he is a big part of that BC defense that ranked so well. Go watch him...you're in for a treat. 

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3 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

I've been watching whether Harold Landry from Boston college declares because he's an underrated prospect I absolutely love

Miller is reporting him as borderline first round.

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3 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Miller is reporting him as borderline first round.

He deserves to be and should go first round after my initial impressions on him. The guy stops the run like a beast Imo and on top of it he was able to very effectively rush the passer. I have him highly rated on my personal ranking of OLB 

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Solomon Thomas.   Can set the edge and get to the QB.  

 

My quandary is that I don't want him in the first as I think a great Corner will be there waiting for us, and I want Elflein or Pocic with our 2nd.  

 

Is it too much to ask he drops to our 3rd rounder?  Probably but hey, dare to dream. 

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2 hours ago, Ngata Chance said:

Solomon Thomas.   Can set the edge and get to the QB.  

 

My quandary is that I don't want him in the first as I think a great Corner will be there waiting for us, and I want Elflein or Pocic with our 2nd.  

 

Is it too much to ask he drops to our 3rd rounder?  Probably but hey, dare to dream. 

but thomas has never shown his ability to edge rush(thanks stanford) and while he appears to have the explosiveness and the moves to keep himself free in traffic, we dont know if he has any real edge rushing ability. bending the edge, turning the corner, disengaging OTs and mainttaining balance etc. are all very different from knifing a gap in the interior. 

im very weary about thomas as a first round pick, i wouldnt do it personally. he appears stiffer than typical edge rushers which may be the reason he was used as a DT at stanford. now if we wanted to take him in the 2nd if he happened to fall there? hell yes, worst case scenario we let timmy jernigan walk and possibly upgrade there with a younger and cheaper(and higher character) guy, best case scenario he develops into a real edge rusher and we got a total steal. 

however, i doubt hes there in the late 2nd.

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I think Williams will be gone. Probably a top ten pick; definitely a top fifteen. Barnett could be there since he isn't the insane athlete type, but I think too many teams will want help at edge. The Saints and Colts in particular would be likely to take him. If the Ravens want to go edge in the first, they'll be left with Demarcus Walker as their top option.

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1 hour ago, RaineV1 said:

I think Williams will be gone. Probably a top ten pick; definitely a top fifteen. Barnett could be there since he isn't the insane athlete type, but I think too many teams will want help at edge. The Saints and Colts in particular would be likely to take him. If the Ravens want to go edge in the first, they'll be left with Demarcus Walker as their top option.

Yeah I agree he's probably gone. But who knows. Hopefully the colts gm is an idiot as always. 

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1 hour ago, RaineV1 said:

I think Williams will be gone. Probably a top ten pick; definitely a top fifteen. Barnett could be there since he isn't the insane athlete type, but I think too many teams will want help at edge. The Saints and Colts in particular would be likely to take him. If the Ravens want to go edge in the first, they'll be left with Demarcus Walker as their top option.

charles harris is certainly a better edge rusher than demarcus walker

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6 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

charles harris is certainly a better edge rusher than demarcus walker

I'd agree with this assessment. I don't think Walker is bad or anything but he's not my top guy right now and would really need to show something at the combine to change my perception. Harris has a lot more pass rushing moves it's honestly surprising. He's also super explosive off the snap. 

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5 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

I'd agree with this assessment. I don't think Walker is bad or anything but he's not my top guy right now and would really need to show something at the combine to change my perception. Harris has a lot more pass rushing moves it's honestly surprising. He's also super explosive off the snap. 

i dont know if walker can show me much the take the spot after williams and barnett. he isnt gonna show better flexibility at the combine, he can show better explosiveness but he looks stiff on tape which is why i consider him a 2nd round OLB/DE hybrid type, a guy who is always gonna dominate the run but i think hes gonna be inconsistently disruptive in the pass rush, get in the pocket but rarely get home, he just isnt gonna disengage fast enough in the nfl

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If we pass on Tim William it better because we decided there was another play rated higher on the draft board. If we pass on him because of "character concerns" then we deserve to have a soft defense.

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something i noticed about tim williams on his auburn film is that he actually plays pretty disciplined. he is by no means an edge setter but he still knows when to anchor down and stay home. multiple times he anticipated the outside run to his side and he leveraged the tackle wide to turn the run back in, also he anticipated runs to the opposite side, pre-snap, and avoided traffic and dropped back and began crossing the field, he didnt even consider trying to chase it down from behind. 

for someone who is considered raw and wont bring much against the run, id say that shows some competence.

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1 minute ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

something i noticed about tim williams on his auburn film is that he actually plays pretty disciplined. he is by no means an edge setter but he still knows when to anchor down and stay home. multiple times he anticipated the outside run to his side and he leveraged the tackle wide to turn the run back in, also he anticipated runs to the opposite side, pre-snap, and avoided traffic and dropped back and began crossing the field, he didnt even consider trying to chase it down from behind. 

for someone who is considered raw and wont bring much against the run, id say that shows some competence.

I live in SEC country so unfortunately I have to watch a lot of Alabama games, and this year there are a ton of players on that defense that could really help us out.

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4 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

something i noticed about tim williams on his auburn film is that he actually plays pretty disciplined. he is by no means an edge setter but he still knows when to anchor down and stay home. multiple times he anticipated the outside run to his side and he leveraged the tackle wide to turn the run back in, also he anticipated runs to the opposite side, pre-snap, and avoided traffic and dropped back and began crossing the field, he didnt even consider trying to chase it down from behind. 

for someone who is considered raw and wont bring much against the run, id say that shows some competence.

Williams is interesting because he's inconsistent in that sometimes he stays disciplined and squeezes the LOS and at other times goes too high up the field or just doesn't turn inside but continues to round the edge. If he turned inside more he'd get to the QB more or would get a TFL but I watched him go too far upfield and just get taken out of the play and allow either a big run or a completion--neither of which would've occurred had he not done what I mentioned. 

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3 minutes ago, Gruntled Ravens Fan said:

I live in SEC country so unfortunately I have to watch a lot of Alabama games, and this year there are a ton of players on that defense that could really help us out.

i said before the season started that this looked like the  best alabama defense yet and a lot of players look like future pros. iim starting to think that we could really be in range to grab tim williams, and im watching film here trying to find a reason to not want him there(talking myself out of realistic prospects, lol) but im just finding more and more things to like. 

really williams just looks like a natural, he reacts so quickly and so often makes the smart decisions, i see him doing stuff like breaking inside hard into the pocket because the qb begins to roll out to the opposite side, but its impressive because he makes that decision at the same time as the qb so he never loses a step, and he does it so lightning fast that he always executes it as well.

3 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

Williams is interesting because he's inconsistent in that sometimes he stays disciplined and squeezes the LOS and at other times goes too high up the field or just doesn't turn inside but continues to round the edge. If he turned inside more he'd get to the QB more or would get a TFL but I watched him go too far upfield and just get taken out of the play and allow either a big run or a completion--neither of which would've occurred had he not done what I mentioned. 

funny because ive seen this as well, but in the post above im stating that i see the exact opposite. maybe he just needs to be taught to play disciplined at all times rather than try too hard to make a play? because the past 2 tapes ive watched on him he is consistently making smart decisions and using the inside lanes and staying home against the run, but in previous film he was over extending.

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1 minute ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

i said before the season started that this looked like the  best alabama defense yet and a lot of players look like future pros. iim starting to think that we could really be in range to grab tim williams, and im watching film here trying to find a reason to not want him there(talking myself out of realistic prospects, lol) but im just finding more and more things to like. 

really williams just looks like a natural, he reacts so quickly and so often makes the smart decisions, i see him doing stuff like breaking inside hard into the pocket because the qb begins to roll out to the opposite side, but its impressive because he makes that decision at the same time as the qb so he never loses a step, and he does it so lightning fast that he always executes it as well.

funny because ive seen this as well, but in the post above im stating that i see the exact opposite. maybe he just needs to be taught to play disciplined at all times rather than try too hard to make a play? because the past 2 tapes ive watched on him he is consistently making smart decisions and using the inside lanes and staying home against the run, but in previous film he was over extending.

If we could get either Williams or Foster and try to snag Eddie Jackson, then I'd say we had a great draft.

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6 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

i said before the season started that this looked like the  best alabama defense yet and a lot of players look like future pros. iim starting to think that we could really be in range to grab tim williams, and im watching film here trying to find a reason to not want him there(talking myself out of realistic prospects, lol) but im just finding more and more things to like. 

really williams just looks like a natural, he reacts so quickly and so often makes the smart decisions, i see him doing stuff like breaking inside hard into the pocket because the qb begins to roll out to the opposite side, but its impressive because he makes that decision at the same time as the qb so he never loses a step, and he does it so lightning fast that he always executes it as well.

funny because ive seen this as well, but in the post above im stating that i see the exact opposite. maybe he just needs to be taught to play disciplined at all times rather than try too hard to make a play? because the past 2 tapes ive watched on him he is consistently making smart decisions and using the inside lanes and staying home against the run, but in previous film he was over extending.

I haven't watched the Auburn game but I'll try to go and watch it and see what I see. I really like Tim Williams a lot though just to be clear. I think he's got clear top 10 pass rush talent but he needs moves and must be taught. I'm wondering if our OLB coach is good enough. That may be part of our problem here. I do think Williams could be special so I'd take him. Yep

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25 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

something i noticed about tim williams on his auburn film is that he actually plays pretty disciplined. he is by no means an edge setter but he still knows when to anchor down and stay home. multiple times he anticipated the outside run to his side and he leveraged the tackle wide to turn the run back in, also he anticipated runs to the opposite side, pre-snap, and avoided traffic and dropped back and began crossing the field, he didnt even consider trying to chase it down from behind. 

for someone who is considered raw and wont bring much against the run, id say that shows some competence.

I think he's shown that he can set the edge, which is good.  It's inconsistent, but better to have some than none.  There have to be legitimate concerns about his size on the edge at the NFL level, but you're mainly drafting him for his pass rush anyways.

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3 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

I think he's shown that he can set the edge, which is good.  It's inconsistent, but better to have some than none.  There have to be legitimate concerns about his size on the edge at the NFL level, but you're mainly drafting him for his pass rush anyways.

Tim Williams is 6'3 236, if he can add about 15-20 pounds of muscle then he would be the right size and weight for us.

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Just now, Gruntled Ravens Fan said:

Tim Williams is 6'3 236, if he can add about 15-20 pounds of muscle then he would be the right size and weight for us.

He's bigger than that now.  I think they said he put on 15 pounds before the 2016 season.  Regardless, he's still got a skinny frame and will get swallowed up on occasion.  That frame is part of what makes him such a good and explosive rusher though, so you take the good with the bad in that regard.  He's definitely much bigger than he was last year.

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Just now, rmw10 said:

He's bigger than that now.  I think they said he put on 15 pounds before the 2016 season.  Regardless, he's still got a skinny frame and will get swallowed up on occasion.  That frame is part of what makes him such a good and explosive rusher though, so you take the good with the bad in that regard.  He's definitely much bigger than he was last year.

I was just going of what Google said. There have been many OLBs that have been drafted with skinny frames and have turned out solid. Chandler Jones and Barkievious(?) Mingo have turned out to be ok. But I'd try to have him gain 10-15 pounds and keep his explosiveness. 

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1 minute ago, Gruntled Ravens Fan said:

I was just going of what Google said. There have been many OLBs that have been drafted with skinny frames and have turned out solid. Chandler Jones and Barkievious(?) Mingo have turned out to be ok. But I'd try to have him gain 10-15 pounds and keep his explosiveness. 

I believe that was definitely last year's number.   ESPN has him at 252 now which would be that 15 (actually, 16) pound gain before the season.  I have no problems at all with the skinny frame.  It's just going to be something that works against him on occasion.  I'll take the positive he provides over the occasional negative every single day though.

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The official heights and weights of college players is always iffy before they're measured at the combine. We'd have to wait to know for sure how big Williams is. That said, Williams definitely doesn't look small next to the people around him.

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