Should Ravens focus on building an Elite Offense or Defense?

[OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL]

Regardless, housecleanibg must be done first.....which begs the question, do you keep any current coordinator?

[kiwi_raven]

32 minutes ago, OLD SCHOOL SMASH BALL said:

Regardless, housecleanibg must be done first.....which begs the question, do you keep any current coordinator?

Both coordinators need to go, Pees can't hold a game plan in place for 4 quaternary and can't make adjustments like a DC should, and Marty is Marty, he was never meant to hold the position  permanently, just a plug to full a void till the end of season

[GrimCoconut]

14 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

i agree, garcon would be a dream pickup for us and another addition in the long line of quality FA WR signings weve made, but jeffrey would be more realistic. although i dont think were gonna be targeting jeffrey. 

one guy who i think isnt getting enough attention is vincent jackson. i know hes up there in age, but i dont think tampa is gonna be breaking the bank for him and will let him walk, and i think he could be a quality pickup on a 1 year deal for 2-3mil which i think is very realistic and fair. hes always been a sure handed big bodied receiver and i think he and joe would get familiar with eachother really quick. 

im beginning to think that the clamoring for a stud WR to grow with joe is overrated, weve done so well with free agents and so poor with drafting them, why not keep doing what works? its obvious joe prefers throwing to a savvy veteran and i think he fits the mold. not to mention its always good to give joe at least one guy who can make a contested catch and bail him out on occasion.

You think drafting a stud WR is overrated? I'd respectfully disagree after what I saw this year. I and others bought into the hype and believed we were fine and good at WR last year but wow was I wrong. Part of our problem this year was that the OL failed to protect Joe or the WR didn't get open or if they did they dropped the ball or Flacco just didn't deliver a good ball. 

[K-Dog]

3 hours ago, Cillmatic said:

Why not just have them both be really good? Use draft picks that won't be resigned as little flair ups.

Sounds simple enough but apparently I am wrong....

[RavensFanMania]

On 12/31/2016 at 6:55 PM, JoeyFlex5 said:

I'm not sure where anyone even gets the idea that he's leaving dc. Talk around skins nation is Garcon is their top priority this off-season.

2nd priority after Cousins

[Inqui]

I've been saying this since at least the middle of last season so it's not just me hoping we mimic the latest side to find success, but I love the Dallas model and I hope we follow that.

What we're seeing with the Cowboys is the culmination of years of investing big in their OL, arguably starting with the Tyron Smith pick in 2011. Adding Frederick and Martin gives them arguably the best OL core in the league, while keeping Doug Free around keeps their chemistry intact and Collins is a great plug and play option (and no doubt they won't have a problem finding a new one when his contract expires). They've done well to find Dak, but that OL sets him up perfectly to succeed. Chuck in a few defensive playmakers who can make just enough stops and that's a really good team in this fan's opinion.

I'd love to see us do the same around Stanley. Focus on making that core group of LT, C and RG elite (easier said than done I know), which would also revolve around Yanda's replacement in a big way, and that process may end up taking long enough that we've got a strong foundation to at least be fringe contenders as Joe winds down his career as well as keeping the rebuild fairly painless once he moves on.

[GrimCoconut]

14 hours ago, Inqui said:

I've been saying this since at least the middle of last season so it's not just me hoping we mimic the latest side to find success, but I love the Dallas model and I hope we follow that.

What we're seeing with the Cowboys is the culmination of years of investing big in their OL, arguably starting with the Tyron Smith pick in 2011. Adding Frederick and Martin gives them arguably the best OL core in the league, while keeping Doug Free around keeps their chemistry intact and Collins is a great plug and play option (and no doubt they won't have a problem finding a new one when his contract expires). They've done well to find Dak, but that OL sets him up perfectly to succeed. Chuck in a few defensive playmakers who can make just enough stops and that's a really good team in this fan's opinion.

I'd love to see us do the same around Stanley. Focus on making that core group of LT, C and RG elite (easier said than done I know), which would also revolve around Yanda's replacement in a big way, and that process may end up taking long enough that we've got a strong foundation to at least be fringe contenders as Joe winds down his career as well as keeping the rebuild fairly painless once he moves on.

Yep. We need more young interior OL. I think we should get ourselves a replacement for Yanda and try to upgrade Zuttah. 

[Edgar]

15 hours ago, Inqui said:

I've been saying this since at least the middle of last season so it's not just me hoping we mimic the latest side to find success, but I love the Dallas model and I hope we follow that.

What we're seeing with the Cowboys is the culmination of years of investing big in their OL, arguably starting with the Tyron Smith pick in 2011. Adding Frederick and Martin gives them arguably the best OL core in the league, while keeping Doug Free around keeps their chemistry intact and Collins is a great plug and play option (and no doubt they won't have a problem finding a new one when his contract expires). They've done well to find Dak, but that OL sets him up perfectly to succeed. Chuck in a few defensive playmakers who can make just enough stops and that's a really good team in this fan's opinion.

I'd love to see us do the same around Stanley. Focus on making that core group of LT, C and RG elite (easier said than done I know), which would also revolve around Yanda's replacement in a big way, and that process may end up taking long enough that we've got a strong foundation to at least be fringe contenders as Joe winds down his career as well as keeping the rebuild fairly painless once he moves on.

I don't really like Cam Robinson at tackle but he would be awesome at left guard. Not sure he isn't gone at 16 and I'm positive the fan base loses its mind but it's an interesting proposition for a dominant left side.

 

[I AM LEGEND]

Honestly they need to do whatever makes Joe Flacco feel comfortable. They need to sit him down and say what is it that will make you the most comfortable every time u say the word "hike" . u guys and the front office can build the offense and defense  to your hearts desire but when the most important position on the field is playing sub par/average all season then chances are your teams will follow. 

[ellicottraven]

I hate to admit this but Jerry Jones ( the butt of most jokes around the NFL) has had the best drafting over the last 4-5 yrs period. He's focused on building his team from the inside out because he's seen what a stud O-line and D-line can do for a team's prospects with his teams led by Aikman and Smith. They were the most complete and dominant lines of the time and they bulldozed through their opponents. 

We need to start following that mantra starting now. With Stanley last year, I believe we must focus on adding stout Guards and linemen and work our way out. I understand we lack talent pretty much everywhere. But, Flacco is decent enough that if he were provided stout protection, a great run game and receivers that can make great catches even with poorly thrown balls, he'll be more than good enough to lead us to another Championship or two. We don't have an alternative with Flacco, we need to build around him because whether anybody likes it or not, he's going to be here for the next 3-5 yrs unless of course he has really regressed despite all the help the Ravens provide him which I think is unlikely. 

So, while a CB, WR, Pass Rushers and O-line are vital components I say we draft a great Guard or Pass rusher with our first pick and he's got to be a difference maker and not a guy that is decent but a great special teamer! Enough with that nonsense already. Just draft the best positional talent and the best player available already. Let's rebuild our roster to be the biggest, baddest roster in the NFL.

[sharkh20]

Would like to focus on a 3 and out defense rather than a "bend don't break" defense.  Bend dont break doesn't give your offense enough possessions during a game.  The defense is also on the field for way too long and is dead tired by the end of the game.  3 and out with a focus on causing turnovers.  Offense just needs to be serviceable.  Keep it simple.  Move the ball vertically.  Remove the 2 yard out from the playbook unless they are playing off and you have a blocker out in front.  The stretch zone run requires talent at the O line that we don't seem to have currently.  We have the players for I formation runs on the other hand.  One thing the trestman as well as the cameron offenses always did was run our receivers directly into the zones instead of sitting between them.  There is always this illusion that our receivers can't ever get open because we run ourselves into coverage.  That should be looked at and figured out.

[mdrsharon]

Hard to go one way or the other, we have some great pieces of both. I think couching is still our downfall.

But look at who is in the playoffs, all of those teams have superstars, receivers and backs. We do not. They also have the ability to make big plays to open the field and score TDs , we didn't ,  Thanks to Tucker, we are in the game, but more points are needed to win.

Work on the O line,that will give Joe time to get off the right play, he always looks like he is unsure. He needs time in the pocket to make things happen.

W

 

 

 

 

 

 

[PurpleCity5]

For a good part of the season we had a top 5 defense until injuries hit. I feel like with an pass rush and another CB you can field a top 5 defense again. Of course we know that's easier said than done, but that's really the focal point of what the Ravens will want to do with their defense. Some people underestimate what losing Jimmy means to this team. 

When it comes to the offense, you have no idea what's going on. You had quality WRs, an OL that while banged up some is still better than most in the league, sorry but a 5 man front of Stanley(Who was a monster these past weeks)-Lewis(Played well)-Zuttah(Had his ups and downs)-Yanda(All-Pro)-Wagner(Beast) under-preformed and should have fared way better than what we saw. The run game showed flashes and should have done better. As far as the TEs go, a massive disappointment. Pitta's comeback was nice to see but others struggled to stay healthy, and when healthy they just didn't look like they have improved much, failing to separate, find soft spots in defenses and chemistry with Joe, just did not look like they made a jump at all. 

Edited January 2 by PurpleCity5

[RavensDieHard21]

Every SB winning team and playoff team has a weakness and a strength. We just need to realize which ones we can live with. The Broncos last year had a near perfect defense, but crap QB play, offensive line and mediocre RBs, but great WR. This year Dallas has a great O line, decent receivers, a great ground game and a run stuffing d line. They have a mediocre secondary and pass rush, but they score +30 points so if you allow your opponents 21-24 points it doesn't even matter. 

We need to find the formula where we can suffer slightly I'm one area, but still win games. 

[RavensDieHard21]

At a glance every team has at least 2-3 keys to success. Looking at us, Flacco isn't a QB like Brees, Brady, Rodgers, or even Big Ben, he will not go out there and consistent exceed the level of the talent around him. He will only go as far as the offense around him is built. We have two young talented running backs with an offensive line that is geared towards pass protection. Perriman and Wallace are speedsters, but don't really play consistently. I seriously don't think we will ever have an elite offense but if we can get a mailer at C and LG, we will at least be able to run the ball effectively and help out Flacco and actually utilize his strengths. 

Our biggest weakness two seasons straight is we cannot hold the lead late in games. Look at the amount of Go Ahead TDs surrendered this and last year. Pittsburgh, Raiders, Giants, Patriots, Bengals at home,etc. 

we have a legit run stuffing unit. Great ILBs, a premier safety in Weddle, great corners in young and Smith--barring health, but we seen the problem--the pass rush isn't getting there. Even when it does, our lack of depth gets exposed. Suggs should be a second and third down guy only and dumervil should only hit the field on 3rd in obvious passing situations. We need pass rushers to get home so we can drop 6-7 guys to cover running lanes. We land tim Williams, Barnett or maybe even McKinley and we already look a lot better off when you pair them with Judon who just needs better technique. Then we add a legit top 5-10 corner from the loaded draft class and we will not implode the moment jimmy leaves the game.

 

[RavensDieHard21]

On December 30, 2016 at 3:03 PM, PurpleCity5 said:

It's absolutely the offense that needs help. Yeah the defense lost it against Pitt but how many games did the offense lose us? Plenty more, its been a very disappointing unit and you're going to have to do some serious work there because these last two years have been unbearable on offense. 

The only games I would say the offense lost for us was against Dallas, Redskins and Jets. The defense blew it against the Raiders, Pitt, Bengals, Patriots, Giants. Yes the offense could have put up more points but, in all of those games we had a lead or we within one possession late in the 4th and the defense could not get off the field. Mainly because of gased out pass rushers and lack of quality depth at corner. 

[Cillmatic]

18 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

For a good part of the season we had a top 5 defense until injuries hit. I feel like with an pass rush and another CB you can field a top 5 defense again. Of course we know that's easier said than done, but that's really the focal point of what the Ravens will want to do with their defense. Some people underestimate what losing Jimmy means to this team. 

When it comes to the offense, you have no idea what's going on. You had quality WRs, an OL that while banged up some is still better than most in the league, sorry but a 5 man front of Stanley(Who was a monster these past weeks)-Lewis(Played well)-Zuttah(Had his ups and downs)-Yanda(All-Pro)-Wagner(Beast) under-preformed and should have fared way better than what we saw. The run game showed flashes and should have done better. As far as the TEs go, a massive disappointment. Pitta's comeback was nice to see but others struggled to stay healthy, and when healthy they just didn't look like they have improved much, failing to separate, find soft spots in defenses and chemistry with Joe, just did not look like they made a jump at all. 

Once we install a new OC and fire Castillo to go back to a zone blocking scheme I expect the offense to immediately get better. Hell, we've got a damn good rookie LT, a hall of fame RG, and a good RT. Depending on how good Lewis will be and if we get a good center we should have an elite line.

[Cillmatic]

I'll say this. ON PAPER we have the potential to have a really good defense. There are only two real holes in the unit, those being #2 CB and pass rusher. If we could just address those positions we'd have an elite squad.

Now look at offense and you'll see that the position of WR and C are DESPERATELY needed. Luckily, those two positions can be settled in lower rounds and FA as opposed to Pass rusher and CB which are RARELY found in FA and lower rounds.

[rmcjacket23]

8 minutes ago, Cillmatic said:

Once we install a new OC and fire Castillo to go back to a zone blocking scheme I expect the offense to immediately get better. Hell, we've got a damn good rookie LT, a hall of fame RG, and a good RT. Depending on how good Lewis will be and if we get a good center we should have an elite line.

What's the basis for saying that we don't run a zone blocking scheme again?

[Static]

Offense , because we can still have a good defense without too much effort but if we dont show the offense love it becomes a dumpster fire.

[Dr. Kelley]

Well, considering we are keeping both dean and marty, it will be at least another season before we have with an elite defense or offense

Baltimore ravens 2017- commitment to mediocrity!

[OUravensfan]

1 hour ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

At a glance every team has at least 2-3 keys to success. Looking at us, Flacco isn't a QB like Brees, Brady, Rodgers, or even Big Ben, he will not go out there and consistent exceed the level of the talent around him. He will only go as far as the offense around him is built. We have two young talented running backs with an offensive line that is geared towards pass protection. Perriman and Wallace are speedsters, but don't really play consistently. I seriously don't think we will ever have an elite offense but if we can get a mailer at C and LG, we will at least be able to run the ball effectively and help out Flacco and actually utilize his strengths. 

Our biggest weakness two seasons straight is we cannot hold the lead late in games. Look at the amount of Go Ahead TDs surrendered this and last year. Pittsburgh, Raiders, Giants, Patriots, Bengals at home,etc. 

we have a legit run stuffing unit. Great ILBs, a premier safety in Weddle, great corners in young and Smith--barring health, but we seen the problem--the pass rush isn't getting there. Even when it does, our lack of depth gets exposed. Suggs should be a second and third down guy only and dumervil should only hit the field on 3rd in obvious passing situations. We need pass rushers to get home so we can drop 6-7 guys to cover running lanes. We land tim Williams, Barnett or maybe even McKinley and we already look a lot better off when you pair them with Judon who just needs better technique. Then we add a legit top 5-10 corner from the loaded draft class and we will not implode the moment jimmy leaves the game.

 

Neither is Ben

[Steve0x]

Offense!! Remember what the 75-77 Colts offense had,,Remember the Chargers offense had during the 80s. Thats what i want Ravens to focus. Building an O-Line  get more recievers and 2 power backs

Edited January 3 by Steve0x

[rmcjacket23]

3 minutes ago, Steve0x said:

Offense!! Remember what the 75-77 Colts offense had,,Remember the Chargers offense had during the 80s. Thats what i want Ravens to focus. Building an O-Line  get more recievers and 2 power backs

I have zero interest in doing anything that was done in the 80s.

[RavensDieHard21]

6 hours ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

Every SB winning team and playoff team has a weakness and a strength. We just need to realize which ones we can live with. The Broncos last year had a near perfect defense, but crap QB play, offensive line and mediocre RBs, but great WR. This year Dallas has a great O line, decent receivers, a great ground game and a run stuffing d line. They have a mediocre secondary and pass rush, but they score +30 points so if you allow your opponents 21-24 points it doesn't even matter. 

We need to find the formula where we can suffer slightly I'm one area, but still win games. 

 

4 hours ago, OUravensfan said:

Neither is Ben

Lol out of all that, you say Ben isn't good. He wins games in the clutch 

[usmccharles]

8 minutes ago, Steve0x said:

Offense!! Remember what the 75-77 Colts offense had,,Remember the Chargers offense had during the 80s. Thats what i want Ravens to focus. Building an O-Line  get more recievers and 2 power backs

You do realize times have changed.  Success normally doesn't happen when you go back to doing things how they were done 30 years ago...

[The Raven]

5 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

What's the basis for saying that we don't run a zone blocking scheme again?

He had to go out of his way to be so oblivious to the fact that we do in fact run a zone scheme. That's not his first time thinking we don't run one.

Anyway, the idea that you have to pick either a good defense or a good offense is archaic and overly simplistic. I realize it's probably easier to live in a world where things fit nicely into square boxes, where we can say "this is a defensive team that is bad at offense" and vice versa, but, well, that's just simple-minded.

What we should focus on building AND retaining is a dominant offensive line and a dominant defensive line with a couple playmakers in the secondary. To win on defense, you need sacks and you need picks. You don't get stops anymore. You get turnovers. So focus on that.

On offense, running the ball is crucial. It controls the clock, it converts third downs, and yes, it literally changes the coverage and formation a defense runs against you. Get a good oline and get some role players (that can catch) at receiver. And, a good line keeps the QB clean.

[Steve0x]

25 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

You do realize times have changed.  Success normally doesn't happen when you go back to doing things how they were done 30 years ago...

Thats how you win NFL games. You try to score 40-55 points a game. I remember Colts put 58 points up the board vs Bills at Memorial Stadium. I was at that game 

Colts 58, Bills 20. Dec. 12, 1976. Baltimore’s Memorial Stadium. The most points allowed in Bills history and the worst run-for-the-bus finale in team history.

 

Source http://buffalonews.com/2013/08/20/bills-20-worst-defeats/

 

Edited January 3 by Steve0x

[The Raven]

Just now, Steve0x said:

Thats how you win NFL games. You try to score 40-55 points a game. I remember Colts put 53 points up the board vs Bills at Memorial Stadium. I was at that game 

Colts 58, Bills 20. Dec. 12, 1976. Baltimore’s Memorial Stadium. The most points allowed in Bills history and the worst run-for-the-bus finale in team history.

 

Source http://buffalonews.com/2013/08/20/bills-20-worst-defeats/

 

Nobody cares. Want to add something substantial?

[Steve0x]

Just now, The Raven said:

Nobody cares. Want to add something substantial?

Yes.. Close games doesn't get it done. You saw what happened in Pittsburgh