ellicottraven

Ozzie's draft magic - Fantasy or Reality?

222 posts in this topic

Nobody really knows how our draft boards stack up. However, I'll say this much. I've heard on talk radio that since Harbaugh became HC, he's been very involved in the draft process (it's his right to be), but I think that coupled with the fact that he prefers talent that plays great special teams over talent that is strictly positional. This may just be a rumor because I don't even remember what radio show that was where I heard this, but if it is true, then there is pressure on the front office to triangulate between need, bpa and special teams ability and several really talented players could slip through the cracks. 

I truly believe that the scouting team led by Ozzie, Eric and Hortiz should be the decision makers in the upcoming draft and Harbaugh should just focus on coaching the talent that is drafted. I understand there is a lot of innuendo in my post here, but if what is rumored is actually true then that is a huge problem for the front office and their draft strategy. Under normal circumstances it really wouldn't matter if we had struck it rich with our draft picks, but fact is we haven't and missed on a lot of first and second rounders in recent drafts. I'm sure somebody else has heard what I heard on radio as well about Harbaugh's meddling with the draft regarding strong emphasis on special teams with players selected. If you did please back me up. 

I feel strongly that the draft needs to be independent of total involvement of the coaching staff. I do understand that their recommendations are important and they need to watch tape as well, but the scouting teams have to be the decision makers approved by Eric, Hortiz and Ozzie. And not necessarily the HC. Just a thought so don't start negging the heck out of this post.

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54 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

Nobody really knows how our draft boards stack up. However, I'll say this much. I've heard on talk radio that since Harbaugh became HC, he's been very involved in the draft process (it's his right to be), but I think that coupled with the fact that he prefers talent that plays great special teams over talent that is strictly positional. This may just be a rumor because I don't even remember what radio show that was where I heard this, but if it is true, then there is pressure on the front office to triangulate between need, bpa and special teams ability and several really talented players could slip through the cracks. 

I truly believe that the scouting team led by Ozzie, Eric and Hortiz should be the decision makers in the upcoming draft and Harbaugh should just focus on coaching the talent that is drafted. I understand there is a lot of innuendo in my post here, but if what is rumored is actually true then that is a huge problem for the front office and their draft strategy. Under normal circumstances it really wouldn't matter if we had struck it rich with our draft picks, but fact is we haven't and missed on a lot of first and second rounders in recent drafts. I'm sure somebody else has heard what I heard on radio as well about Harbaugh's meddling with the draft regarding strong emphasis on special teams with players selected. If you did please back me up. 

I feel strongly that the draft needs to be independent of total involvement of the coaching staff. I do understand that their recommendations are important and they need to watch tape as well, but the scouting teams have to be the decision makers approved by Eric, Hortiz and Ozzie. And not necessarily the HC. Just a thought so don't start negging the heck out of this post.

youre right. now i think the HC needs to give a confirmation that they are in line with it because you cant have a knucklehead first round pick that the HC doesnt want on the team no matter how talented, but to worry about special teams play from a first round pick is just asinine, its like putting jimmy smith on kickoff coverage as a rookie and he hurts himself on the first play of his career, just stupid and reckless, you save special teams spots for guys who are on the bubble and are hungry to make a roster by any means, not the guy whos already got his spot locked up for 4-5  years because the team made a huge investment. you didnt see eric weddle out there covering kicks did you? you didnt see mike wallace gunning punt returners? we had just made big investments in these guys to play their positions, it would be stupid to put them on special teams, and the same goes for first round picks. if we draft a guy like tim williams in the first round we do it because he brings pass rush, but one thing that infuriates me about harbaugh is he will demand that he go out and cover kicks because you gotta earn your dues and bla bla bla, but thats just not how it works. its about return on investment, if your major investment takes snaps on the most dangerous  play in all of football and gets hurt, then you just wasted your investment to prove a point, which is essentially all it is. 

it wouldnt surprise me if this was true, im a harbaugh guy for the most part, but he does have a tendency to overemphasize things that hurt the organization, like "aggressive game planning", guys that fit the mantra(you arent bellichick, sorry john), placing too much emphasis on special teams, hell sometimes his emphasis on versatility hurts the team, like when he bounces a young guy around different positions until their head is spinning(paul kruger, anthony levine, kamalei correa). if this is true i would really like for  ozzie and eric to show john the door everytime he mentions special teams for any guy inside the top 100

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have to wonder if guys like kindle and Cody were Ozzies guys and after they flamed harbaugh got more power and were riding that wave now

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19 minutes ago, kjbmore said:

have to wonder if guys like kindle and Cody were Ozzies guys and after they flamed harbaugh got more power and were riding that wave now

cody shouldve never been picked but man kindle was a solid prospect. it sucks he had to ruin himself like that. i believe that kindles fall down that steps is the incident that possibly prevented this franchise from turning into a dynasty. not because i think kindle wouldve carried us or anything, not even close, but i think the trickle down effect was massive. if kindle pans out i dont think we draft upshaw and instead we very possibly take harrison smith or cordy glenn or alshon jeffrey, we may not see a need to sign dumervil and then we are able to make a splash signing for a corner or an elite center, or even better retain one of our key guys like boldin, KO, or mcphee, all while having that #1 pass rusher that we found in the 2010 2nd round. 

when you look really deep into our desperate efforts to find some pass rush after kindle burned out(pun intended) and what is has all amounted to(only 1 good season from doom and tons of cap space and draft picks used up, all other players are gone) it all adds up to one hell of a domino effect on the entire team and i cant help but think of how different things could have been if we not only had a 2nd round pick who was able to rack up 8-12 sacks per year and how many more wins that could have gotten us, but how different things would have been if we were able to allocate our resources differently because we didnt whiff on our top pick and were suddenly devoid of pass rushers. 

it hurts to imagine what if.

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18 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

cody shouldve never been picked but man kindle was a solid prospect. it sucks he had to ruin himself like that. i believe that kindles fall down that steps is the incident that possibly prevented this franchise from turning into a dynasty. not because i think kindle wouldve carried us or anything, not even close, but i think the trickle down effect was massive. if kindle pans out i dont think we draft upshaw and instead we very possibly take harrison smith or cordy glenn or alshon jeffrey, we may not see a need to sign dumervil and then we are able to make a splash signing for a corner or an elite center, or even better retain one of our key guys like boldin, KO, or mcphee, all while having that #1 pass rusher that we found in the 2010 2nd round. 

when you look really deep into our desperate efforts to find some pass rush after kindle burned out(pun intended) and what is has all amounted to(only 1 good season from doom and tons of cap space and draft picks used up, all other players are gone) it all adds up to one hell of a domino effect on the entire team and i cant help but think of how different things could have been if we not only had a 2nd round pick who was able to rack up 8-12 sacks per year and how many more wins that could have gotten us, but how different things would have been if we were able to allocate our resources differently because we didnt whiff on our top pick and were suddenly devoid of pass rushers. 

it hurts to imagine what if.

Between injuries in college, DUIs and issues with not repaying debt, I seriously doubt it would turn out right even without that stairs fall.

Latest update: Nyle Maxwell Chrysler Dodge Jeep of Austin: http://www.nylemaxwellcdjr.com/meet-our-staff/ (just scroll down little bit)

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53 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

Between injuries in college, DUIs and issues with not repaying debt, I seriously doubt it would turn out right even without that stairs fall.

Latest update: Nyle Maxwell Chrysler Dodge Jeep of Austin: http://www.nylemaxwellcdjr.com/meet-our-staff/ (just scroll down little bit)

some people grow up when they are given opportunities. all the what ifs i just stated includes "what if he got his head on straight" lol

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3 hours ago, ellicottraven said:

Nobody really knows how our draft boards stack up. However, I'll say this much. I've heard on talk radio that since Harbaugh became HC, he's been very involved in the draft process (it's his right to be), but I think that coupled with the fact that he prefers talent that plays great special teams over talent that is strictly positional. This may just be a rumor because I don't even remember what radio show that was where I heard this, but if it is true, then there is pressure on the front office to triangulate between need, bpa and special teams ability and several really talented players could slip through the cracks. 

I truly believe that the scouting team led by Ozzie, Eric and Hortiz should be the decision makers in the upcoming draft and Harbaugh should just focus on coaching the talent that is drafted. I understand there is a lot of innuendo in my post here, but if what is rumored is actually true then that is a huge problem for the front office and their draft strategy. Under normal circumstances it really wouldn't matter if we had struck it rich with our draft picks, but fact is we haven't and missed on a lot of first and second rounders in recent drafts. I'm sure somebody else has heard what I heard on radio as well about Harbaugh's meddling with the draft regarding strong emphasis on special teams with players selected. If you did please back me up. 

I feel strongly that the draft needs to be independent of total involvement of the coaching staff. I do understand that their recommendations are important and they need to watch tape as well, but the scouting teams have to be the decision makers approved by Eric, Hortiz and Ozzie. And not necessarily the HC. Just a thought so don't start negging the heck out of this post.

ellicottraven, that is why I posed the question I did earlier in the thread about how much impact Harbs actually has in the overall draft process.  When I was reading and researching to find out as much as I could about how our draft strategy works and who is the most influential I went back as far as I could so that I could see if there had been any major trends and/or shifts in our draft strategy, especially since Harbs arrived to see if our recent down trend in the last five years or so could be traced to Harbs' influence.  Personally, I thought there had been and from what I read it would seem to indicate that this could be possible.

Here are some of the better sources I read that can give you good insight into our draft process and how it has evolved through the years, and you and others can draw your own conclusions:

2009:  http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/19/sports/football/19ravens.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

2013:  http://grantland.com/features/bill-barnwell-baltimore-consistent-winning/

2013:  http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000212663/printable/whos-ireallyi-in-charge-afc-north-hierarchies-run-the-gamut

2016:  http://russellstreetreport.com/2016/02/01/lombardis-way/a-shift-in-the-ravens-war-room/

2016:  http://russellstreetreport.com/2016/10/18/lombardis-way/the-heat-is-on-for-harbaugh/

Here are two good articles that let you know about Harbs' philosophies:

2014:  http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/super-bowl-winning-coach-makes-the-most-of-each-moment

2016:  http://www.ndinsider.com/football/notebook-harry-hiestand-s-influence-pays-draft-dividends/article_f86a17c2-0e81-11e6-b260-a3f63e6e91f8.html

These articles have a lot of similarities and some differences, but they do give a good overall impression as to the draft strategy.  Some folks may be familiar with the sources already, but when read all together they draw a definitive picture. The article from the National Catholic Register which was a Q & A, pretty much sums up Harbs' approach to how he views the draft as evidenced by the quotes below:

"After you got back from Afghanistan, you went to the NFL Combine in Indianapolis. Is the combine really necessary? Do you get to learn things about players that you didn’t already know?

At the combine, the scouts are mostly rounding out their knowledge of players they’ve already studied a lot. However, coaches are a different story, since we are just beginning the evaluation process on this draft class. Coaches can learn a great deal by seeing the players up close at the combine. We start with that information and build on it up until the draft in May.

"You didn’t need to look for any kickers, did you?

No, certainly not. Justin Tucker is a tremendous kicker and young man. He exemplifies what we look for in players. There’s the obvious necessity of physical strength and skills, but above and beyond those, we look for mental characteristics. Those can make or break a draft pick. Work ethic, decision-making skills and interest in team unity are some of the things that go to make up what we call that “football intelligence.” This outweighs physical qualities 3 to 1."

Very interesting and insightful as to what he values most in a player, I'd say!

I have more questions than answers, lol.   If Ozzie has been so successful with the "right player, right price" mantra that emphasizes the "evaluating and valuing players" strategy so well over his tenure as the Ravens GM, as his drafting and free agency record suggests, then why the dip in the draft over the last five yrs. give or take?  The outlier to that question could point to Harbs.  Once Harbs' won a SB  in accordance with his record, did he feel that gave him more leverage to step in and influence the draft?  If Biscotti wanted the scouts and coaches to work together, unlike they didn't do well under Billick, could it be that Harbs gets the ear of Biscotti more than Ozzie? 

Obviously, something isn't working because this team lacks an identity imho...are we a defensive team or an offensive team...and if offense is it run or pass?  Whatever the issues are, how can you stack a draft board when you don't have a clear vision of what you want the team to be? I would tend to agree with you ellicottraven, let the scouts scout and the coaches coach! This would only be a problem if the coach can't coach the team that is drafted, lol.

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If he is a magician he is an awful one.

You know Ozzie's motto and his go to move already friends. Right player right price and always trade the first round pick to move down to get more picks so he can be wrong on drafting many other players. Is why we have been lacking for a number of years in many areas. The only difference is that now we are so very thin at almost every important spot that the injuries hurt more. 

But we really cannot blame t all on Oz. We need to look at the top to wonder why he settles for the mindless wanderings that are Oz's draft procedures.

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I would say in between. Last years draft was really good overall. Previous years not so much with more misses than usual. You aren't going to hit on every one but Ozzie hits more often than other Gms. I do think we need to do a better job of picking top round talent like others here think. This team needs playmakers. We have to many complimentary\role players.

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Maybe we just need to go in and reevaluate this whole red star approach that we have.  It's nice to get a guy that works hard and is high character, but how many better talents have we passed over because they might not be the smartest or the best interview?  It's always been stated that we get so many of our red star players.  Well, maybe that's the problem nowadays.  If we're getting our red star players later in the draft, why have so many other teams passed on them?  I'm not saying to go out and draft a team full of criminals, but character doesn't always make a football player.

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On ‎12‎/‎29‎/‎2016 at 0:50 PM, ellicottraven said:

I was looking at a couple of threads of whether Correa or Perriman were busts or not. I decided to look back at the last 5 yrs of first 3-4 rounds picks of the Baltimore Ravens to really find out how we actually did and I was shocked. Here's the list starting from 2010 onwards:

Short of very few players like Mosley, Jimmy Smith and B. Williams none of the others have overperformed or if they did, they're all gone. I don't find this magical by any stretch of the imagination. Both Ozzie and Eric DeCosta along with the scouting team are complicit in the remarkably bad drafts. Definitely doesn't lend credence to the hype surrounding Ozzie's magical drafts or am I reading it all wrong? Please tell me we are still amazing because when I look at last year's draft ( the best in at least the past 6 yrs) I find there may be hope. Do we need fresh thinking or is Ozzie and gang still up to the job?

 

2016
ROUND PICK POSITION PLAYER COLLEGE
1 6 T Ronnie Stanley Notre Dame
2 42 OLB Kamalei Correa Boise State
3 70 DE Bronson Kaufusi Brigham Young
4 104 CB Tavon Young Temple
4 107 WR Chris Moore Cincinnati
4 130 OT Alex Lewis Nebraska
4 132* DT Willie Henry Michigan
4 134* RB Kenneth Dixon Louisiana Tech
5 146 OLB Matthew Judon Grand Valley St.
2015 and 2014
ROUND PICK POSITION PLAYER COLLEGE
1 26 WR Breshad Perriman Central Florida
2 55 TE Maxx Williams Minnesota
3 90 DT Carl Davis Iowa
4 122 OLB Za'Darius Smith Kentucky
4 125 RB Javorius "Buck" Allen Southern Cal
2013
ROUND PICK POSITION PLAYER COLLEGE
1 32 S Matt Elam Florida
2 56 LB Arthur Brown, choice obtained in a trade with Seattle for the Ravens' 62nd (second round) 165th (fifth round) and 199th (sixth round) selections Kansas State
3 94 DT Brandon Williams Missouri Southern
4 129 LB John Simon Ohio State
2012
ROUND PICK POSITION PLAYER COLLEGE
2 35 OLB Courtney Upshaw, choice obtained in a trade with Minnesota for 1st-round (29) selection in 2012. Alabama
2 60 T Kelechi Osemele Iowa State
3 84 RB Bernard Pierce, choice obtained in a trade with Atlanta for 3rd-round (91) and 5th-round (164) selections in 2012. Temple
4 98 G Gino Gradkowski, choice obtained in a trade with Minnesota for 1st-round (29) selection in 2012. Delaware
2011
ROUND PICK POSITION PLAYER COLLEGE
1 27 CB Jimmy Smith Colorado
2 58 WR Torrey Smith Maryland
3 85 OT Jah Reid, choice obtained in a trade with Philadelphia for 3rd-round (90) and 6th-round (191) selections in 2011 Central Florida
4 123 WR Tandon Doss Indiana

 

Regards 2013 round 1 they done put the cuffs on him now.  yah we are strugglin for a reason

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I think our drafting is highly overrated (recently). I still think overall we do a fairly good job but the tremendous reputation Ozzie carries around draft season has seemingly overshadowed some seriously underwhelming draft classes as of late. I think a lack of willingness to trade up has impacted that greatly. We love trading back and accumulating picks but hold onto our mid round picks for dear life when it comes to trading and that's something that has really irked me in recent years. 

Find a playmaker and give up what it takes to get them, a lack of playmakers has seriously hurt this team, especially on the offensive side of the ball. Clearly you can't do this every year but at least 1 time in the past 3 years we should've jumped for somebody we were in love with. The mid rounds mostly produce "worker bees" they provide depth, rotational support, special teams, every so often you hit there...We have PLENTY of those guys in the fold already. We aren't in a rebuild, we don't need quantity, we need quality. 

 

With that said...this year I actually don't think we need to move to come away with a stud. I really like how the board has been falling to us so far in mock drafts. I think we're in great shape to come away with a top corner or  guy like Dalvin Cook. But in previous years I definitely think we played it too conservative and didn't take the initiative to secure a playmaker that we desperately need.

Edited by sflegend89
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27 minutes ago, sflegend89 said:

I think our drafting is highly overrated (recently). I still think overall we do a fairly good job but the tremendous reputation Ozzie carries around draft season has seemingly overshadowed some seriously underwhelming draft classes as of late. I think a lack of willingness to trade up has impacted that greatly. We love trading back and accumulating picks but hold onto our mid round picks for dear life when it comes to trading and that's something that has really irked me in recent years. 

Find a playmaker and give up what it takes to get them, a lack of playmakers has seriously hurt this team, especially on the offensive side of the ball. Clearly you can't do this every year but at least 1 time in the past 3 years we should've jumped for somebody we were in love with. The mid rounds mostly produce "worker bees" they provide depth, rotational support, special teams, every so often you hit there...We have PLENTY of those guys in the fold already. We aren't in a rebuild, we don't need quantity, we need quality.

With that said...this year I actually don't think we need to move to come away with a stud. I really like how the board has been falling to us so far in mock drafts. I think we're in great shape to come away with a top corner or  guy like Dalvin Cook. But in previous years I definitely think we played it too conservative and didn't take the initiative to secure a playmaker that we desperately need.

I agree to an extent.  But i honestly think some people dont realize how much luck has to deal with some of these draft picks.  We have had great drafts and bad drafts, as every team does.  The Upshaw and Kindle pick hurt us quite a bit, i dont fault Oz on the Kindle thing as no one should, completely not his fault.  We nailed Rice and Joe in two rounds, nailed Jimmy and Torrey and two rounds, etc. 

I have no doubt we come out of the first round with a big playmaker this year, but imo it wont be at the RB position

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43 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

I agree to an extent.  But i honestly think some people dont realize how much luck has to deal with some of these draft picks.  We have had great drafts and bad drafts, as every team does.  The Upshaw and Kindle pick hurt us quite a bit, i dont fault Oz on the Kindle thing as no one should, completely not his fault.  We nailed Rice and Joe in two rounds, nailed Jimmy and Torrey and two rounds, etc. 

I have no doubt we come out of the first round with a big playmaker this year, but imo it wont be at the RB position

I think Fournette will be long gone, Cook more than likely gone... but hey if he he's there when we're on the board I see no reason to pass on a RB of his caliber. Look at what Zeke Elliott did this year, granted behind a great OL but still his ability to make things happen with the ball in his hands really propelled that offense to another level. Cook could be our workhorse, he's really that good. We're an entirely different offense with a RB like him and I think it could be a recipe for success on that side of the ball with Greg Roman now in the fold.

Cook, much like Elliott, is the total package. Mix of elusiveness and power, good receiver, can wear down defenses late in games. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he's a guy we lock in on.

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3 minutes ago, sflegend89 said:

I think Fournette will be long gone, Cook more than likely gone... but hey if he he's there when we're on the board I see no reason to pass on a RB of his caliber. Look at what Zeke Elliott did this year, granted behind a great OL but still his ability to make things happen with the ball in his hands really propelled that offense to another level. Cook could be our workhorse, he's really that good. We're an entirely different offense with a RB like him and I think it could be a recipe for success on that side of the ball with Greg Roman now in the fold.

Cook, much like Elliott, is the total package. Mix of elusiveness and power, good receiver, can wear down defenses late in games. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he's a guy we lock in on.

Thats my point, we dont have anything close to that line,  I wouldnt be mad technically if we took Cook, i would just rather go in many different directions.  But llike you alluded to, i think Fournette and Cook will be gone.  Jags, Eagles, Colts are just some that come to mind. 

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honestly we do better in later rounds like 4-5th rnds than 2nd and 3rd rnds, we might as well trade our 2nd rnd and 3rd rnd for 4th picks.

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3 hours ago, omar586 said:

honestly we do better in later rounds like 4-5th rnds than 2nd and 3rd rnds, we might as well trade our 2nd rnd and 3rd rnd for 4th picks.

Nope

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I've still never heard a logical rationale for why Ozzie Newsome would be considered a bad GM using a realistic standard. 

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1 minute ago, jboy19 said:

I've still never heard a logical rationale for why Ozzie Newsome would be considered a bad GM using a realistic standard. 

And you wont from posters on here.  They think every pick should be a HoFer

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i dont know why some ppl bashing ozzie, but the issue is we can't keep our own FAs, because we can't compete for them in FA, we draft well, we just can't keep them after their rookie deals are up, another issue is our coaches are not that great in developing and using players to their strengths.

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1 minute ago, usmccharles said:

And you wont from posters on here.  They think every pick should be a HoFer

Im going to wake up to like 20 "But Ozzie is a terrible GM because Matt Elam can't tackle" takes and the like. 

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10 minutes ago, jboy19 said:

Im going to wake up to like 20 "But Ozzie is a terrible GM because Matt Elam can't tackle" takes and the like. 

Some refuse to look at the luck involved. BP, bad luck. Kindle, bad luck.  Upshaw, not a good pick.  Elam, not a good pick.  I dont like the KC pick but have to give it time.   KO, great pick, Rice, great pick, Wagner, great pick, Bwill Great pick.  i think the 1-5 rounds is where you can really judge as everything else is a crapshoot. 

Edited by usmccharles
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the last 2 draft have been nice so far, u have to give KC a little more time, because our coaching staff stinks, they keep switching players to other positions instead of letting players master their original position and then ease to other positions they think will work. 

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1 minute ago, omar586 said:

the last 2 draft have been nice so far, u have to give KC a little more time, because our coaching staff stinks, they keep switching players to other positions instead of letting players master their original position and then ease to other positions they think will work. 

Examples? let me guess, KC and Waller

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wasn't elam switched? KC is another example. i think art brown was another too. waller has been playing decent in limited snaps.

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1 hour ago, omar586 said:

wasn't elam switched? KC is another example. i think art brown was another too. waller has been playing decent in limited snaps.

Neither Elam nor Brown were forced to switch position. And I'd argue that Waller's switch was objectively the right move.

Edited by hn68wb4
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So this seems to come up every year... and yea, of course, I'd like to draft pro bowlers and HOF type players every year. Especially with top picks... and missing them is worse. 

but the common message seems to be -- yes Ozzie was definitely one great at drafting but recently he stinks.

 

Looking back at our entire draft history though... when was it so much different?

'96-'00??? Ok. So when we drafted in the top 10 every single year? Well of course. Bet Ozzie would still be nailing every top 10 pick but that takes losing and no one wants that. 

Plus, show me all the great 2nd and 3rd round picks over that stretch. I'd love to see when we consistently nailed the top couple rounds. 

And during this great span of drafting we weren't really hitting on players throughout. Which is why it didn't last. 

 

How about '03-'06??

Take away Suggs and Ngata (both top 12 picks) and what exactly do you have?? Easily, in my opinion, our worst stretch of drafting in team history. 

 

Looking at the entire history of our drafts, I'd argue we've done better than ever at finding solid to major contributors in rounds 3-7 since about '07. That continues today. 

And, as we've seen, give Ozzie a top 15ish pick and he still nailing ProBowl caliber, franchise cornerstone type players (Stanley, Mosley)...

and given 20-32 picks he's still hitting at a similar rate we just happened to have our longest stretch of such picks. 

I don't see anything having changed except maybe improvement at finding good players throughout the draft instead of just at the top. 

 

Everyone wants to win every year... but then also expect to draft the same caliber player with a 28th pick as we used to get with the 4th, 5th, 10th or 12th pick. 

Lewis and Reed are severe outliers. Once in a generation that we were lucky enough to get two of late 1st in a soan of 6 or so years. 

But outside of them it was Heap and Ben Grubbs with Claytons, Taylors, etc... sprinkled in. 

 

In fact I'd say '07-'11 was one of our finest periods of drafting in terms of placement and what we got. If Kindle had panned out '10 turns into a very good draft. 

I'd argue '12 was probably worse than '13 where KO would've been a great 1st rd pick and Upshaw an acceptable 2nd. '13 if you make BWill your 1st, Wagner your 2nd, Juice your 3rd and Simon your 4th that's a darn good draft. I bet every GM in the league would sign on the dotted line today if their '17 draft guaranteed them that haul. 

Funny thing is ppl point to '14 as an "outlier" where Ozzie got it right again... but beyond Mosley it wasn't great. I'd honestly take '13 over '14 every single day. 

'15-''16 are still TBD but '16 is looking like possibly one of our best ever top to bottom. Of course I'd take 2 HOFers every year but it looks so far like we've got an elite franchise LT and some serious playmakers. 

 

So where's this drought? 

Find me a stretch where we consistently hit on our 1st rounders and You've also found us picking top 10. You'll also find not much outside the first round. 

And ask yourself which draft you prefer: '13 or '14?

Do you take '14 bc we hit on a Pro Bowl rookie MLB over '13 bc man we busted those top 2 picks?

Or do you ignore that and take the elite DT, Top 5 RT, Pro Bowler at a complimentary position and very solid rotational guy/potential starter at a playmaking position (pass rush)?

 

I bet one type of draft builds you a contender a heck of a lot faster and maintains contention better than the single shiny pro bowler. 

You need both honestly. But if you look back at drafting history objectively you'll find that just almost never happens. 

But I get we all need something to point at and make the bad guy when it doesn't go our way. 

 

 

Play this game. 

Look at all our drafts and ask yourself: what would would the market value be for the drafted players id want to keep in FA?

I think that's a great way to judge drafts. Essentially, what would I have to pay on the open market to replace the keeper players I just drafted?

'13.... one of the most criticized drafts around here also probably happens to fall around the top in such a scale. 

Edited by BOLDnPurPnBlacK
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1 hour ago, hn68wb4 said:

Neither Elam nor Brown were forced to switch position. And I'd argue that Waller's switch was objectively the right move.

Elam was forced to play FS actually, so yes he was. 

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1 hour ago, hn68wb4 said:

Neither Elam nor Brown were forced to switch position. And I'd argue that Waller's switch was objectively the right move.

Elam was a in the box SS coming out of florida which we forced to play center field as a FS....

As for Brown well to be fair he was a 4-3 MLB in college projected as 1 of the top 4-3 OLB coming out of the draft ,which we then decided to use as a 3-4 ILB.

So yeah there is that.

 

Edited by Tru11
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6 hours ago, omar586 said:

wasn't elam switched? KC is another example. i think art brown was another too. waller has been playing decent in limited snaps.

yah elam din't make it cuz he was switchd:D

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