APPRECIATION THREAD: Joe Flacco was a couple of possessions away from being in 4 Superbowls in 8 years!!!!

[BmoreBird22]

12 minutes ago, Tank 92 said:

Let's not forget about all of those great receivers that have left Bmore over the last 9 years and went on to be much better with other QBs like......like......  You get the picture.  haha

Anquan had much better years in SF than Baltimore. He was also much better prior to coming to Baltimore.

Torrey is a TBD situation because SF was a dumpster fire and then he dealt with some serious health issues this year.

Then we have players who did well, but had their career die in Baltimore, essentially, like Housh or Lee Evans

Todd Heap was certainly better prior to the arrival of Flacco.

[BmoreBird22]

1 hour ago, OUravensfan said:

SSS played better under Flacco than Newton, if he didn't get hurt in 2015 he was looking at multiple career highs. Wallace is what he always has been, a one trick pony #2 ceiling type guy. As for Perriman, draft position doesn't automatically mean he will be good, I want him to excel but so far he has been the reason for his own shortcomings dropping a lot of great passes, several TDs. 

SSS was definitely playing very well in 2011 and 12 with Newton. The dropoff in 2013 largely, in my opinion, was due to reported difficulties with meshing personalities between SSS and Newton. No real surprise since they're both very strong personalities. But he wouldn't have set any career highs, assuming he even continues on his torrid pace.

Mentioning Perriman was more to point out that the Ravens, especially recently, have definitely tried to make a concerted effort to surround Joe with guys. Since 2011, they tried giving him Perriman, Maxx (traded up for), Dixon, West, Torrey, and Crockett, several of those being top 100 picks to go along with Wallace, SSS, Boldin. They have really tried to put talent around him. We have to stop making excuses. Joe just hasn't played up to a level he's capable of lately.

[Tank 92]

8 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Anquan had much better years in SF than Baltimore. He was also much better prior to coming to Baltimore.

Torrey is a TBD situation because SF was a dumpster fire and then he dealt with some serious health issues this year.

Then we have players who did well, but had their career die in Baltimore, essentially, like Housh or Lee Evans

Todd Heap was certainly better prior to the arrival of Flacco.

Lol....yeah that's not true, "much better" is a huge exaggeration.  Q had more targets/receptions with those teams as they featured the pass more, but his YPC were as high/higher in Bmore as any point of his career.  Housh? Lee Evans? Seriously? Gimme a break. LMAO!  And Todd was a shell of his former self, beaten and battered, by the time Flacco arrived. Pretty much FALSE on all counts.  lol

[Tru11]

1 hour ago, OUravensfan said:

SSS played better under Flacco than Newton, if he didn't get hurt in 2015 he was looking at multiple career highs. Wallace is what he always has been, a one trick pony #2 ceiling type guy. As for Perriman, draft position doesn't automatically mean he will be good, I want him to excel but so far he has been the reason for his own shortcomings dropping a lot of great passes, several TDs. 

A rookie Newton had a much better season with SSS then a 7th , 8th and 9th year Vet in flacco.

Matter of fact SSS earned pro bowl and 2nd team all pro honours.

His 2nd season with Cam was pretty similiar to his first season here and his last season with cam was very similiar to his last season here.

Highly doubt if he did not get injured he would put up better numbers in his 2nd season here then in his 1st season with Cam.

Im also quite intrested what career highs he would set according to you.
You must have a lot of faith in mallet/schaub if you think SSS would have kept the same pace with then as he had with flacco lol

[BmoreBird22]

Just now, Tank 92 said:

Lol....yeah that's not true, "much better" is a huge exaggeration.  Q had more targets/receptions with those teams as they featured the pass more, but his YPC were as high/higher in Bmore as any point of his career.  Housh? Lee Evans? Seriously? Gimme a break. LMAO!  And Todd was a shell of his former self, beaten and battered, by the time Flacco arrived. Pretty much FALSE on all counts.  lol

Having a higher YPC is very much expected when you're catching a low number of passes. Torrey caught like half as many passes in SF in his first year in Baltimore and it resulted in like 3.0 more YPC. The big issue is that Boldin was catching like 10%+ more of his passes on one more target per game. Boldin definitely had much better seasons with Arizona and with SF. Shoot, Boldin had his worst years catch percentage wise in Baltimore (excluding Boldin's second year when he played in all of nine games).

Lee Evans and Housh both were at least decently productive receivers prior to Baltimore. I never said they were amazing receivers, just that their production fell off a massive cliff prior to Baltimore.

We need to stop making excuses to justify Flacco's recent downfalls and issues.

[Tank 92]

7 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

 

Mentioning Perriman was more to point out that the Ravens, especially recently, have definitely tried to make a concerted effort to surround Joe with guys. Since 2011, they tried giving him Perriman, Maxx (traded up for), Dixon, West, Torrey, and Crockett, several of those being top 100 picks to go along with Wallace, SSS, Boldin. They have really tried to put talent around him. We have to stop making excuses. Joe just hasn't played up to a level he's capable of lately.

This is a joke, right?  Anyone and everyone knows that improvement is needed from Flacco, that's a given and pretty much expected. But to say things like this is just ridiculous and crazy.  'Cmon MAN!   LMAO!!!!!

[BmoreBird22]

2 minutes ago, Tank 92 said:

This is a joke, right?  Anyone and everyone knows that improvement is needed from Flacco, that's a given and pretty much expected. But to say things like this is just ridiculous and crazy.  'Cmon MAN!   LMAO!!!!!

So the Ravens are just leaving Flacco out to dry and doing nothing for him?

[Tru11]

Its not Q nor other teams fault that they decided to throw the ball more to Q.

Imagine if we did that from the start rather then wait till his last 4 games with us to figure out how he should be used....

Heck the FO probably wont have called him and ask him to take a cut or get trade him away .....

[Tank 92]

29 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

So the Ravens are just leaving Flacco out to dry and doing nothing for him?

"Just leaving Flacco out to dry and doing nothing"?  No, not really, but they've hardly broken the bank to load the offense with weapons. And due to unfortunate injuries(Pitta, SSS, Perriman, Watson, etc.) much of the efforts haven't panned out so well. Do you think they have done as much for him as, let's say, Atlanta has done for Ryan? I'll answer that for you......hell no. 

To be frank, this whole line of discussion is, again, ridiculous. Everyone knows improvement is needed from Flacco and I haven't read anything here saying otherwise. I think there was improvement over the course of last year. Seems he was gaining confidence in his knee and there's no reason to think that improvement won't continue. Everyone also knows the Ravens need to add playmakers and just need to improve offensive game planning in general. 

Edited February 25 by Tank 92

[BmoreBird22]

10 minutes ago, Tank 92 said:

"Just leaving Flacco out to dry and doing nothing"?  No, not really, but they've hardly broken the bank to load the offense with weapons. And due to unfortunate injuries(Pitta, SSS, Perriman, Watson, etc.) much of the efforts haven't panned out so well. Do you think they have done as much for him as, let's say, Atlanta has done for Ryan? I'll answer that for you......hell no. 

To be frank, this whole line of discussion is, again, ridiculous. Everyone knows improvement is needed from Flacco and I haven't read anything here saying otherwise. I think there was improvement over the course of last year. Seems he was gaining confidence in his knee and there's no reason to think that improvement won't continue. Everyone also knows the Ravens need to add playmakers and just need to improve offensive game planning in general. 

Up until last year, the Falcons had really only given him receivers. They hadn't given him a run game nearly to the level of Flacco or invested nearly as much into the offensive line. Even then, the only player now that they heavily invested into was Julio Jones. I would say the Ravens put more into the offense more consistently than the Falcons have for Ryan. Ryan has just made it work. 

I mean, let's be real. The Ravens are always going to be up against the cap due to Flacco, Yanda, Wallace, and Pitta occupying around 1/3 of the cap collectively, so they can't break the bank for an Alshon Jeffrey. But what the Ravens have done, especially recently, is try very hard to trade for players (Boldin), sign free agents (SSS, Wallace), or draft top 100 players (Williams, Perriman, Torrey, Gilmore). Every single year it feels like the Ravens go out and make these moves and everyone is all excited for all the weapons and all the new faces for Flacco to work with, but every time we get to the end of the season, it's that Joe didn't have any weapons or any of these great players around him. There are many, many teams that are vastly worse off on their starting 10 outside of quarterback. I would say the Ravens have a situation in the top half of the league, yet the offense consistently underwhelms and underproduces. 

And to be honest, I'm sure Joe was the number one reason that Pitta was even re-signed at all. Coming off that big of a hip injury and not ever having a truly elite season, I bet the Ravens would have let him walk if he weren't Joe's best friend, so Joe is really on the Ravens mind's when making offseason decisions.

Edited February 25 by BmoreBird22

[Tank 92]

41 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Up until last year, the Falcons had really only given him receivers. They hadn't given him a run game nearly to the level of Flacco or invested nearly as much into the offensive line. Even then, the only player now that they heavily invested into was Julio Jones. I would say the Ravens put more into the offense more consistently than the Falcons have for Ryan. Ryan has just made it work. 

I mean, let's be real. The Ravens are always going to be up against the cap due to Flacco, Yanda, Wallace, and Pitta occupying around 1/3 of the cap collectively, so they can't break the bank for an Alshon Jeffrey. But what the Ravens have done, especially recently, is try very hard to trade for players (Boldin), sign free agents (SSS, Wallace), or draft top 100 players (Williams, Perriman, Torrey, Gilmore). Every single year it feels like the Ravens go out and make these moves and everyone is all excited for all the weapons and all the new faces for Flacco to work with, but every time we get to the end of the season, it's that Joe didn't have any weapons or any of these great players around him. There are many, many teams that are vastly worse off on their starting 10 outside of quarterback. I would say the Ravens have a situation in the top half of the league, yet the offense consistently underwhelms and underproduces. 

 

Did you really write that the Ravens have consistently done more for Flacco than the Falcons have for Ryan? wowzer!  

And you are writing other things here and not understanding(maybe purposely) what you are writing. Boldin was here for 3 years and has been gone for 4. We won a SB in one of those years and were very competitive in the other two. Flacco and SSS had a good year in 2014, almost made it to the SB. 2015, 2016, injuries. Williams, Perriman and Gillmore probably haven't played a seasons worth of games between them. What is so hard to understand? 

I really have no interest in taking the time to disprove it, but your subjective hypothesis that "many, many teams are worse off" really has no bearing on matters. Fact is if the Ravens want to get back on top there's going to have to be improvements on offense in more areas than just the play of the QB. 

Edited February 25 by Tank 92

[Tru11]

there is nothing to disprove.

since drafting Julio the falcons have done next to nothing to add others WRs through the draft.
They only drafted 2 other WR in round 4 and 7 since then.
Dont think i need to list all the WRs we have spend picks on since drafting Torrey lol

TE aint even close to what we have done in filling that position compared to them.
They only drafted 2 TE since 2011 in round 3 and 4.
we drafted a TE in round 2,3 and 5 not counting waller who was a 6th rounder.

Coleman was a 3rd round pick and Freeman was a 4th round pick.
we drafted pierce , dixon and allen in the first 4 rounds since 2011.

Since 2011 the falcons have  drafted 4  oliners in round 1 ,2,3 and 7.
We drafted oliners in : 1,2.3,4,4,5,5,5 and 6.

Draft wise we have done a lot more for the offense then the falcons and i havent even considerd our pro bowl FB.

If you want to argue about FA signings then go ahead but i would not recommend it lol

[Virginia 55]

On 12/29/2016 at 2:17 AM, Ravens4Real said:

To the person who made this thread, pathetic. 

The last sentence is also hilarious. "If we can carry Joe to the playoffs", the guys is getting paid $20 million a year. Should anyone be having to carry him to the playoffs??

lmao finally a real post !!!!

[Virginia 55]

On 1/4/2017 at 5:27 PM, jimmypowder said:

Look if Joe had Leveon Bell and Antonio Brown he would beat the Patsies and be on his way to the Super Bowl this year

even though he is not fully recovered from the knee injuries. 

Joe could have them both and still be terrible, because he only sees Pitta on the field most of the time. 

[Ravenseconbeast]

On 2/23/2017 at 2:14 AM, Tank 92 said:

Thanks for enlightening me. In reading this it seems the facts point to the obvious(to most) reasons for sub par passing game performance. Poor receivers, lack of YAC, conservative play calling and injuries. 

 

I dont think I've enlightened you at all. 

Under that article from Baltimore Suns there is a link to another article from Football Outsiders.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2017/failed-completions-2016

It shows analysis of what to make of Flacco completions and a thorough analysis and breakdowns of what to make of Flacco's performances.  

Actually, read the facts.  It is definitely an interesting article.  Let me know if you actually read it.  

 

[usmccharles]

48 minutes ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

I dont think I've enlightened you at all. 

Under that article from Baltimore Suns there is a link to another article from Football Outsiders.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2017/failed-completions-2016

It shows analysis of what to make of Flacco completions and a thorough analysis and breakdowns of what to make of Flacco's performances.  

Actually, read the facts.  It is definitely an interesting article.  Let me know if you actually read it.  

 

Wait....Joe had a bad year...this is news to me.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

Just now, usmccharles said:

Wait....Joe had a bad year...this is news to me.

Why must you respond? He does the same thing in every damn thread lol.

[usmccharles]

5 minutes ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

Why must you respond? He does the same thing in every damn thread lol.

Because it makes me laugh.  This board needs more humor other than the insanely ill-informed posts

[RayRayRaven]

On ‎2‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 1:25 AM, Ravenseconbeast said:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baltimore-sports-blog/bal-for-ravens-joe-flacco-to-dennis-pitta-a-recipe-for-failed-completions-in-2016-20170222-story.html

Here is one for you Tank92.  Make sure to read the facts!

 

3 hours ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

I dont think I've enlightened you at all. 

Under that article from Baltimore Suns there is a link to another article from Football Outsiders.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2017/failed-completions-2016

It shows analysis of what to make of Flacco completions and a thorough analysis and breakdowns of what to make of Flacco's performances.  

Actually, read the facts.  It is definitely an interesting article.  Let me know if you actually read it.  

 

Sheez Louisiana ravenconbeast You keep postin stuf like that we'll never get nada for flacco~

I did not need to see that formulla though.  I knew we wasn't gettin yards even when he completed a pass. doan wanna say where I t hink he really is for fear of  poisoning the market. we can and we gotta trade him before free agency and the draft. its now or nevah

[RayRayRaven]

4 hours ago, Virginia 55 said:

Joe could have them both and still be terrible, because he only sees Pitta on the field most of the time. 

joe do like to "lock on"

he don't read a defense well never has but I watched ray lewis a football life again 2night and though joe certainly aint what they paid for we doan have near the team we did when lewis was with us. not even close

I'm really hopin we get hbo hard knocks. it will finally give us fans the insite into the backroom workins of ou r team.  wuld be imensily interstin

[ellicottraven]

Hey guys this is supposed to be a Joe Flacco 'Appreciation thread' except it is like 3-4 yrs too late or 4-5 yrs too early anyway you look at it. Only super homers are allowed to post here! No negativity allowed as it pertains to Joe Flacco.

[JoeyFlex5]

16 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Anquan had much better years in SF than Baltimore. He was also much better prior to coming to Baltimore.

Torrey is a TBD situation because SF was a dumpster fire and then he dealt with some serious health issues this year.

Then we have players who did well, but had their career die in Baltimore, essentially, like Housh or Lee Evans

Todd Heap was certainly better prior to the arrival of Flacco.

housh, evans, and heap were shells of their former selves when they teamed with flacco. 

not sure torrey is a TBD thing, torrey really is a one trick pony, he needs a high arcing deep ball perfectly placed and he needs it often, joe did that well with him.

boldin is the head scratcher, never quite understood it. flacco made jacoby jones look like a world beater for a stretch, derrick mason was a dinosaur producing at a near pro bowl level, same with steve, mike wallace came into a pretty weak system for him and had a 1k season, kamar aiken was lighting it up before joe went down last year, dennis pitta before the injuries looked great with flacco, torrey put up 1k, marlon brown had 7 TDs and 600+ yards... but boldin never  sniffed 1000 with joe. weird man. I think cam cameron is to blame for that, the system demands wrs to win matchups, mason got WIDE open on comeback route every time he ran one, torrey got over the top consistently, but all boldin had to offer was his hands and big body and he just wasnt able to get open. i think its possible joe never felt comfortable hitting boldin on routes that mostly went vertical.

[BmoreBird22]

1 hour ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

housh, evans, and heap were shells of their former selves when they teamed with flacco. 

not sure torrey is a TBD thing, torrey really is a one trick pony, he needs a high arcing deep ball perfectly placed and he needs it often, joe did that well with him.

boldin is the head scratcher, never quite understood it. flacco made jacoby jones look like a world beater for a stretch, derrick mason was a dinosaur producing at a near pro bowl level, same with steve, mike wallace came into a pretty weak system for him and had a 1k season, kamar aiken was lighting it up before joe went down last year, dennis pitta before the injuries looked great with flacco, torrey put up 1k, marlon brown had 7 TDs and 600+ yards... but boldin never  sniffed 1000 with joe. weird man. I think cam cameron is to blame for that, the system demands wrs to win matchups, mason got WIDE open on comeback route every time he ran one, torrey got over the top consistently, but all boldin had to offer was his hands and big body and he just wasnt able to get open. i think its possible joe never felt comfortable hitting boldin on routes that mostly went vertical.

I wasn't suggesting that Housh, Evans, or Heap should put up like 100/1500/10, but their time with Joe looked absolutely nothing like their time with their prior franchises. They went from having respectable third receiver seasons to being a case of, "What happened?" And it was odd because in the case of those three, they were here during some of Joe's best developmental years.

I would disagree with that. He's shown an ability to snag back shoulder fades and he's shown to do very well coming across the field against slower corners. I'd take him on a drag route or a slant any day of the week. Hell, even the comeback was deadly when he was given even the slightest cushion. I still remember him dragging that Patriots defender into the end zone with him in the 2011 playoffs after catching a curls route and just going.

I wouldn't say Jacoby was a world beater ever. He had those two monstrous touchdowns, which I will never forget, but we all hated him as a receiver. I still think he's at fault for several of those 2013 interceptions of Joe's. 

I'm pretty intrigued with Mike Wallace. Started off the year incredibly hot and just absolutely faded down the stretch. Have to wonder if he can repeat what he did last year or if it'll turn into another Minnesota system.

Kamar Aiken put up most of his stats, oddly, with Mallett and Schaub throwing the ball, but much like Torrey in '13 and Marlon Brown, I think that was more a case of being like the only target available. He just got force fed the ball. I thought he was showing up really well in '15 (Aiken), but I guess not since he tumbled down the depth chart.

And on the topic of Boldin, he probably breaks 1,000 yards if more than 53% of his passes were catchable. If he's up at his normal 63%+, I think he breaks 1,000 yards here at least twice.

Edited February 26 by BmoreBird22

[Tank 92]

2 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I wasn't suggesting that Housh, Evans, or Heap should put up like 100/1500/10, but their time with Joe looked absolutely nothing like their time with their prior franchises. They went from having respectable third receiver seasons to being a case of, "What happened?" And it was odd because in the case of those three, they were here during some of Joe's best developmental years.

There were no mysteries and no one asked "What happened?" with any of the three as it was obvious all three were pretty much spent and done.  Housh left after his one year in Bmore, played in 9 games in Oakland the following season catching 11 passes, then retired. Evans arrived, hurt his ankle in camp, hardly saw the field all year and never played another down after his one year here. And if you were a huge Todd Heap fan like me you know that he was battered and worn from the years of being hung out by the likes of Boller, Wright and Redmond. He still played his heart out with Joe despite being a shell of his former self.  Todd left going to Arizona, played sparsely in 12 games in two years catching 32 passes, and retired.  

Nothing "odd" or peculiar here.

Edit; just a quick add on Boldin.....if he plays 16 games in '11 and '12 he likely breaks 1000 yards twice while here. 

 

Edited February 26 by Tank 92

[berad]

Boldin was horribly misused in a Cam Cameron offense. Running him on verticals was a waste of his talents. That was less on Joe, more on the inflexible system and coordinator.

We saw the shift when Caldwell came in. They ran posts, slants, etc that emphasized his skill set and size at the position more often. Then, after that, he was traded away. A move I still don't like and was surprised to hear about. Oh well...

You could probably say the same for Housh, although he was not the same caliber of player.

[JoeyFlex5]

On 2/25/2017 at 2:34 PM, BmoreBird22 said:

Up until last year, the Falcons had really only given him receivers. They hadn't given him a run game nearly to the level of Flacco or invested nearly as much into the offensive line. Even then, the only player now that they heavily invested into was Julio Jones. I would say the Ravens put more into the offense more consistently than the Falcons have for Ryan. Ryan has just made it work. 

I mean, let's be real. The Ravens are always going to be up against the cap due to Flacco, Yanda, Wallace, and Pitta occupying around 1/3 of the cap collectively, so they can't break the bank for an Alshon Jeffrey. But what the Ravens have done, especially recently, is try very hard to trade for players (Boldin), sign free agents (SSS, Wallace), or draft top 100 players (Williams, Perriman, Torrey, Gilmore). Every single year it feels like the Ravens go out and make these moves and everyone is all excited for all the weapons and all the new faces for Flacco to work with, but every time we get to the end of the season, it's that Joe didn't have any weapons or any of these great players around him. There are many, many teams that are vastly worse off on their starting 10 outside of quarterback. I would say the Ravens have a situation in the top half of the league, yet the offense consistently underwhelms and underproduces. 

And to be honest, I'm sure Joe was the number one reason that Pitta was even re-signed at all. Coming off that big of a hip injury and not ever having a truly elite season, I bet the Ravens would have let him walk if he weren't Joe's best friend, so Joe is really on the Ravens mind's when making offseason decisions.

The ravens have made moves, but there have been unfortunate situations such as injuries across different levels of the offense. Having James hurst starting at LT for multiple games across multiple seasons is far worse than not having an elite receiver. 

Our problems on offense can't be traced back to one thing or person and that's the problem, it's something different every year but people think that flacco is the common denominator thus the scapegoat, but people aren't factoring in things like injuries and coordinators leaving every year.

[BmoreBird22]

12 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

The ravens have made moves, but there have been unfortunate situations such as injuries across different levels of the offense. Having James hurst starting at LT for multiple games across multiple seasons is far worse than not having an elite receiver. 

Our problems on offense can't be traced back to one thing or person and that's the problem, it's something different every year but people think that flacco is the common denominator thus the scapegoat, but people aren't factoring in things like injuries and coordinators leaving every year.

I think Flacco is far from the only issue, but as the quarterback, it starts with him. I'd say that about any quarterback on a sputtering offense unless the quarterback was just having perfectly placed balls dropped 10+ times a game.

[JoeyFlex5]

23 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I think Flacco is far from the only issue, but as the quarterback, it starts with him. I'd say that about any quarterback on a sputtering offense unless the quarterback was just having perfectly placed balls dropped 10+ times a game.

Which we've seen happen with joe as well lol, maybe not 10 but I think flacco may have one of the harder jobs in the league since 2011. His team has either fell apart or plain let him down so often it's incredible. Hes not blameless and as a huge flacco guy I'll admit that. But I think flacco being on this team makes us a legit contender every year because when he is hot he is HOT, he just seems to need the team to help him out until he finds that hot streak. Not that inconsistent play is excusable, but it's understandable, we've even seen Brady play games against us that look just as bad as flaccos bad games, it happens. Unfortunately flacco needs the team to step up for some stretches when his game is off, it is what it is, but with this roster things could be much worse by having a mediocre qb.

[Tank 92]

43 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I think Flacco is far from the only issue, but as the quarterback, it starts with him. I'd say that about any quarterback on a sputtering offense unless the quarterback was just having perfectly placed balls dropped 10+ times a game.

Like the Falcons QB in the second half of this year's SB?   

[JoeyFlex5]

21 minutes ago, Tank 92 said:

Like the Falcons QB in the second half of this year's SB?   

Ryan played a great game. That falls on the OC calling pass plays when 3 run plays would have given them a near perfect chance of winning, and the center getting dropped into Ryan's lap on a 7 step drop.