APPRECIATION THREAD: Joe Flacco was a couple of possessions away from being in 4 Superbowls in 8 years!!!!

[gtalk12]

Just now, rmcjacket23 said:

Well because a lot of the talent has been on offense. Hasn't really ever had a great offensive line, nor even a serviceable defense.

I will point out that this season is a great example of when fans start labeling QBs as guys who "can't win playoff games" or "can never lead their team to a SB" should probably pump the brakes a bit. 

There was a time where we lumped guys like Flacco, Romo, Ryan, Stafford, etc. all in a group and said "these guys will never lead a team to a SB". And then some of these guys do. We even lumped in guys like Cam Newton into that group at one point.

Hopefully fans learn something from this. Just because a QB doesn't win a SB in his first like 5-6 years doesn't mean he never will.

 

Matt has been on some very good teams...he got the brakes beat off of him during big games in the playoffs.

[rmcjacket23]

1 hour ago, gtalk12 said:

Matt has been on some very good teams...he got the brakes beat off of him during big games in the playoffs.

He was on some teams that could score points and that occasionally were balanced on offense.

And yes, he didn't play well during the playoffs. And now, he has. So what did we learn from that?

[Moderator 3]

2 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

He was on some teams that could score points and that occasionally were balanced on offense.

And yes, he didn't play well during the playoffs. And now, he has. So what did we learn from that?

That it might be time to stop writing off QBs before they either totally self-destruct or finish their careers?  That ranting to trade Flacco or draft his replacement might be premature?

[rmcjacket23]

Just now, Moderator 3 said:

That it might be time to stop writing off QBs before they either totally self-destruct or finish their careers?  That ranting to trade Flacco or draft his replacement might be premature?

Yes, both. 

[ellicottraven]

4 hours ago, Moderator 3 said:

Again I have to ask, with all the talent Ryan has had around him, why has it taken so long to win a few playoff games?  Gonzales' career was wasted.

Why do you insist on answering my question with a question of your own? In any case, let's just agree to disagree and put this to bed shall we? There is one thing that is common to all of us here. We love the Baltimore Ravens! I have serious questions about Flacco and his skills after what he's showcased this year and for some time now. Short of that magical spell in 2012, I am hard pressed to say he carried the Ravens or has the ability to carry the Ravens. Matt may have taken a long time to reach the SB, but he did it starting game 1 in 2016 and put up MVP numbers spanning both the regular season and post season. He's carried the Falcons on his back, the entirety of the Falcons. I can't in sincerity say Flacco has ever done that for a whole season ever.

Having said all that I am a guy that always believed and said Flacco was the better QB of the two because I was jaundiced by 'homerism'! This year and just the insane mistakes by Flacco told me to rethink who Flacco is and I have come to the conclusion that Flacco is a very good QB, except he needs much more help than other elite QBs to produce the same results. Instead of debating how great Flacco is why don't we debate how to make him a winning QB again shall we?

[OUravensfan]

6 minutes ago, ellicottraven said:

Why do you insist on answering my question with a question of your own? In any case, let's just agree to disagree and put this to bed shall we? There is one thing that is common to all of us here. We love the Baltimore Ravens! I have serious questions about Flacco and his skills after what he's showcased this year and for some time now. Short of that magical spell in 2012, I am hard pressed to say he carried the Ravens or has the ability to carry the Ravens. Matt may have taken a long time to reach the SB, but he did it starting game 1 in 2016 and put up MVP numbers spanning both the regular season and post season. He's carried the Falcons on his back, the entirety of the Falcons. I can't in sincerity say Flacco has ever done that for a whole season ever.

Having said all that I am a guy that always believed and said Flacco was the better QB of the two because I was jaundiced by 'homerism'! This year and just the insane mistakes by Flacco told me to rethink who Flacco is and I have come to the conclusion that Flacco is a very good QB, except he needs much more help than other elite QBs to produce the same results. Instead of debating how great Flacco is why don't we debate how to make him a winning QB again shall we?

Line, Burner, 2 solid possession options, good run game. 

So essentially 2012 January 

Mckinnie>Osemele>Birk>Yanda>Oher

T Smith

Boldin and Pitta

Rice, Pierce and Lynch

[ellicottraven]

1 minute ago, OUravensfan said:

Line, Burner, 2 solid possession options, good run game. 

So essentially 2012 January 

Mckinnie>Osemele>Birk>Yanda>Oher

T Smith

Boldin and Pitta

Rice, Pierce and Lynch

Now we're talking! I think he needs a couple of really good possession receivers with awesome hands. A burner with awesome hands and a great catch radius (Flacco's long ball accuracy isn't the same anymore). A terrific pass blocking line and an awesome and potent run game. Most importantly, no more than 45-59% passing in any game no matter what the circumstances. Run the ball first, throw the ball only in play action. Most importantly he needs a dedicated QB coach that can get him back to re-learning fundamentals and footwork. Finally, Marty needs to call plays that use Flacco's strengths and create some easy plays for him when blitzed, where he has an easy out without damaging the team with boneheaded interceptions.

[OUravensfan]

1 hour ago, ellicottraven said:

Now we're talking! I think he needs a couple of really good possession receivers with awesome hands. A burner with awesome hands and a great catch radius (Flacco's long ball accuracy isn't the same anymore). A terrific pass blocking line and an awesome and potent run game. Most importantly, no more than 45-59% passing in any game no matter what the circumstances. Run the ball first, throw the ball only in play action. Most importantly he needs a dedicated QB coach that can get him back to re-learning fundamentals and footwork. Finally, Marty needs to call plays that use Flacco's strengths and create some easy plays for him when blitzed, where he has an easy out without damaging the team with boneheaded interceptions.

Agree we need someone to cater towards his strengths, which probably isn't the heavy pass run ratio built with a throw to run concept, everything seemed so hard for this offense this year.

Our route concepts could be better, we struggled getting guys open, whether this was route design or poor individual separation or a combo , it needs to get better. We've all seen what Joe can do with a line and open WRs, hell, with a line he's made some of the most impressive tight window throws I've seen. 

I personally liked the bootleg with Joe, he throws well on the run to the right side, when that knee brace comes off (I hope) I expect some improved mobility. Bellicheck when gameplanning for us after the AFCCGs has mentioned this and said Joe always gets us one or two times with a big scramble play for a big run, we need to do this more, when he takes off he is actually pretty fast. It may also keep the defense honest and could help our WR separation.

What do 2009,2010,2011,2014 and 2016 have in common? They all featured huge drops from clutch passes that would of won a game to win the division, win a playoff game, win a playoff game to get to the Super Bowl, Joe doesn't need a superstar, he just needs people to catch the damn ball, it honestly hurts thinking about all the HUGE drops he's had to suffer from. It definitely isn't subsidized by AJ Green type catches, he gets like 4 of those a year from his crew. That being said, Dalton doesn't have to throw the ball with the precision Joe does when he's throwing to guys like Eifert and Green, we do need some more playmakers, maybe Perriman.

Edited January 24 by OUravensfan

[trevorsteadman]

11 minutes ago, OUravensfan said:

Agree we need someone to cater towards his strengths, which probably isn't the heavy pass run ratio built with a throw to run concept, everything seemed so hard for this offense this year.

Our route concepts could be better, we struggled getting guys open, whatever this was route design or poor individual separation or a combo , it needs to get better. We've all seen what Joe can do with a line and open WRs, hell, with a line he's made some of the most impressive tight window throws I've seen. 

I personally liked the bootleg with Joe, he throws well on the run to the right side, when that knee brace comes off (I hope) I expect some improved mobility. Bellicheck when gameplanning for us after the AFCCGs has mentioned this and said Joe always gets us one or two times with a big scramble play for a big run, we need to do this more, when he takes off he is actually pretty fast. It may also keep the defense honest and help our WR separation.

What do 2009,2010,2011,2014 and 2016 have in common? They all featured huge drops from clutch passes that would of won a game to win the division, won a playoff game, won a playoff game to get to the Super Bowl, Joe doesn't need a superstar, he just needs people to catch the damn ball, it honestly hurts thinking about all the HUGE drops he's had to suffer from. It definitely isn't subsidized by AJ Green type catches, he gets like 4 of those a year from his crew. That being said, Dalton doesn't have to throw the ball with the precision Joe does when he's throwing to guys like Eifert and Green, we do need some more playmakers, maybe Perriman.

Looking to the draft I really like Mike Williams a lot. He reminds me a lot of AJ Green. Almost same size as well. Just an inch shorter and 2 pounds lighter. I still think Perriman looks a whole lot like Julio Jones when the ball gets in his hands. Problem is he needs to work on his route running to get open. Not saying either of those players will turn out to produce like Julio or Green.... But man those few times that Perriman got the ball was the few electric plays the offense had all year. He did solid for a  rookie campaign I hope he builds off of it this next year.

[RayRayRaven]

On ‎1‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 10:52 PM, JoeyFlex5 said:

... if you trade joe flacco, you also have to cut half of your starters just to get UNDER the cap, which means you literally have no team to field, at which point you still have to continue cutting players just to be able to sign your draft classes, and you have to hope like hell that somewhere in that disaster of gutting your team of all its talent that you can be lucky enough to land a franchise qb. its really simple, cutting joe flacco guts the entire team of its ability to retain ANY PLAYERS INCLUDING DRAFTED ROOKIES.

no wa y man we can unload the dead wood and make this work. its crazy to say we'd have to cut all and couldn't sign the juicy joe pics. crazy to say we are tied to joe like a hog tied to a rope crazy man to say our bean counters would lock us up so tight to a middlin qb we couldn't find a way to get out. crazy to say that' we have to play it out when we don't. the comprehensuv plan is the way out.

 

On ‎1‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 1:31 PM, balfan23 said:

I was asking for teams at the top of the league and you give me Tennessee? 

are you sayin we are top of the league for compare purpose?  cuz we aint

Dallas in the 1990s? The Walker trade has gone down as the worst trade in the history of the NFL. I don't think there is anyone else who is interested in seeing if they can top the worst trade in history. 

really? it was bad for dallas offloading the over paid and over hyped star?

I've no idea what we could get pick wise for Joe, but I'm not so sure they'd be juicy juicy. We won't ever know, since we're not shopping him and I doubt anyone is pounding on our door offering the family farm. 

we will be shoppin him this year better than next c uz we need darnold in this plan

I'm pretty much done responding to this line of thinking. My advice to you is, settle in for the ride for the next couple years and wish Joe all the best. 

is this what weve come to balfan? wishin and hopin? that aint rayvan

 

12 hours ago, Tank 92 said:

No matter who you feel is better Ryan or Flacco, the fact is that the Falcons have put together a highly effective mix of skill position players around Matt which has helped to raise his level of play and to produce some gaudy numbers. To state the obvious, it ain't just him that has improved. But the proven formula for consistent offensive(and defensive for that matter) success remains in building an effective line. For me signing Mack as the anchor of an already solid group is what has put them over the top. 

I think its Quinn.  he came from seattle and their D is double solid compared to two  yr ago.  our number 1 draftee a few yrs back Upshaw cant find the field.  its Quinn and juicy pics.

Edited January 24 by RayRayRaven

[OUravensfan]

31 minutes ago, trevorsteadman said:

Looking to the draft I really like Mike Williams a lot. He reminds me a lot of AJ Green. Almost same size as well. Just an inch shorter and 2 pounds lighter. I still think Perriman looks a whole lot like Julio Jones when the ball gets in his hands. Problem is he needs to work on his route running to get open. Not saying either of those players will turn out to produce like Julio or Green.... But man those few times that Perriman got the ball was the few electric plays the offense had all year. He did solid for a  rookie campaign I hope he builds off of it this next year.

I ageee with that about Perriman, the potential could be unreal if he improves his hands and route running. Some of those plays were amazing. From what I've heard about Williams, we don't have a realistic shot at getting him. 

[rossihunter2]

1 hour ago, RayRayRaven said:

no wa y man we can unload the dead wood and make this work. its crazy to say we'd have to cut all and couldn't sign the juicy joe pics. crazy to say we are tied to joe like a hog tied to a rope crazy man to say our bean counters would lock us up so tight to a middlin qb we couldn't find a way to get out. crazy to say that' we have to play it out when we don't. the comprehensuv plan is the way out.

 

 

I think its Quinn.  he came from seattle and their D is double solid compared to two  yr ago.  our number 1 draftee a few yrs back Upshaw cant find the field.  its Quinn and juicy pics.

it's not crazy, it's fact - here's another fact... you've become boring now, either that or you can't read

[usmccharles]

Its quite comical when a situation is explained using facts and someones response is, "no, just do it, anything is possible" and has no clue what they are talking about.  Still. 

[rossihunter2]

48 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

Its quite comical when a situation is explained using facts and someones response is, "no, just do it, anything is possible" and has no clue what they are talking about.  Still. 

on multiple different threads

[usmccharles]

26 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

on multiple different threads

Multiple different posters....

[ludy51]

15 hours ago, usmccharles said:

Multiple different posters....

Multiple different realities....

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

19 hours ago, ellicottraven said:

Why do you insist on answering my question with a question of your own? In any case, let's just agree to disagree and put this to bed shall we? There is one thing that is common to all of us here. We love the Baltimore Ravens! I have serious questions about Flacco and his skills after what he's showcased this year and for some time now. Short of that magical spell in 2012, I am hard pressed to say he carried the Ravens or has the ability to carry the Ravens. Matt may have taken a long time to reach the SB, but he did it starting game 1 in 2016 and put up MVP numbers spanning both the regular season and post season. He's carried the Falcons on his back, the entirety of the Falcons. I can't in sincerity say Flacco has ever done that for a whole season ever.

Having said all that I am a guy that always believed and said Flacco was the better QB of the two because I was jaundiced by 'homerism'! This year and just the insane mistakes by Flacco told me to rethink who Flacco is and I have come to the conclusion that Flacco is a very good QB, except he needs much more help than other elite QBs to produce the same results. Instead of debating how great Flacco is why don't we debate how to make him a winning QB again shall we?

Wait...

Matt Ryan is carrying the Falcons??

Hes got Julio Jones, a good OL (Mack has made all the difference in the world), the best 1-2 punch at RB in the league, and a much improved defense with Beasley one of the best young pass rushers in the league, Neal a playmaking safety, a legit CB1, etc...

I fathom Joe could "carry" Julio Jones, those RBs and a stout OL too...

[usmccharles]

47 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

Wait...

Matt Ryan is carrying the Falcons??

Hes got Julio Jones, a good OL (Mack has made all the difference in the world), the best 1-2 punch at RB in the league, and a much improved defense with Beasley one of the best young pass rushers in the league, Neal a playmaking safety, a legit CB1, etc...

I fathom Joe could "carry" Julio Jones, those RBs and a stout OL too...

Yea, that's a simple....No hes not carrying the team. 

[lgcs27288]

Thought this would go here nicely. Flacco was rated the 8th best Super Bowl MVP overall. For comparison Brady at his highest was 16 and Ray was snubbed at 44th.

 

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/14627380/ranking-super-bowl-mvps-nfl?ex_cid=espnfb&sf52719757=1

[Rav'n Maniac]

25 minutes ago, lgcs27288 said:

Thought this would go here nicely. Flacco was rated the 8th best Super Bowl MVP overall. For comparison Brady at his highest was 16 and Ray was snubbed at 44th.

 

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/14627380/ranking-super-bowl-mvps-nfl?ex_cid=espnfb&sf52719757=1

For what it's worth, that lists his performance among some elite company. Not too surprised with the Lewis ranking. There's only 9 defensive players who have won the MVP on that list with none in the top 20.

[SuRihtanil]

On 1/23/2017 at 8:51 AM, Purple_City39 said:

^^^ I'm not going to quote the whole post but no, dead cap can't be traded.  And no, Joe will not get an extra 24.5M in his bank account this season.  I think Joe's actual salary, aka money that will deposit into his account in the 2017 season, is around 6M-8M.  And after easy to do research, I see his salary is actually 6M for 2017.

 

Nah 2011 collective agreement bargain has changed this completely... dead money can be evaded, the eagles showed this just few years ago with their trading craze.  The Eagles walked out like kings unloading dead cap on Murray and Maxwell.

[RayRayRaven]

3 hours ago, SuRihtanil said:

Nah 2011 collective agreement bargain has changed this completely... dead money can be evaded, the eagles showed this just few years ago with their trading craze.  The Eagles walked out like kings unloading dead cap on Murray and Maxwell.

I don't get it surihtanil. some here would say joe can't go, its a done deal, nuthin we can do about it. some say a fact is a fact, what fact?  they cant add up the dead cap proper and see it can be done. there is always a way for those that have the will. the will is the problem. I think some here don't have the will to face the fact that dumpin joe before the deal is out is admittin mistake. admittin player misplayed. they would rather hold onto a lifetime mid to low passer rating joe flacco and miss the playofs for the rest of the deal hopein ganst hope the lightin culd strike in the same spot again.

it aint gonna happen!

[RayRayRaven]

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 7:19 PM, rossihunter2 said:

it's not crazy, it's fact - here's another fact... you've become boring now, either that or you can't read

if ya don't want to do it than it cant be done. but it can be done alrighty. those that say it can't are not comprehesuv plannin. they are evadin. and as I see it those that wuldnt do it now are sentencin the rayvans to a bad fate which is to play out the remainin joe years and then do the massive retool after he gone.  but you read this page and some can't even admit mat ryan has outplayed joe by 10 rating points his whole career.

 

 one way is good one way is bad stickin with joe is the bad way.

Edited January 26 by RayRayRaven

[Tank 92]

Good read that points out the importance of continuity.

http://www.espn.com/blog/baltimore-ravens/post/_/id/33436/continuity-is-key-joe-flacco-has-had-more-coordinators-than-any-nfl-qb-since-2012

[JoeyFlex5]

On 1/24/2017 at 6:10 PM, RayRayRaven said:

no wa y man we can unload the dead wood and make this work. its crazy to say we'd have to cut all and couldn't sign the juicy joe pics. crazy to say we are tied to joe like a hog tied to a rope crazy man to say our bean counters would lock us up so tight to a middlin qb we couldn't find a way to get out. crazy to say that' we have to play it out when we don't. the comprehensuv plan is the way out.

 

 

I think its Quinn.  he came from seattle and their D is double solid compared to two  yr ago.  our number 1 draftee a few yrs back Upshaw cant find the field.  its Quinn and juicy pics.

No, it's not crazy, the math is there. We are X under the cap, cutting flacco ties up Y amount of cap space for 2 years, Y is greater than X, meaning we have to cut a number of players just to get the couple million in cap space to sign draft classes, but in trading for more first round picks our draftee cap total will be higher than ever, meaning MORE cuts, meanwhile you can forget about signing any upcoming free agents. Our team would literally fall completely apart in 2 years and all we would have are rookies and 2nd year players with our core missing.

 It's incredibly simple and concrete fact. It's very comprehensuv.

Edited January 26 by JoeyFlex5

[gtalk12]

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 10:19 AM, RavensDieHard21 said:

My biggest knock on Flacco is he still lacks coverage diagnosis 9 years later. He often doesn't see the opening in the zone until the receiver passes it. He rather ever audibles at the line, which seems to be coaching not trusting him. He also curls up the second he sees pressure coming. He never makea over aggressive defenses pay by exposing their weaknesses by using screens or attacking the holes in coverage 

 

You know what is very odd about this (I agree with you that it seems like Flacco doesn't see what the defense is doing) is that come playoff time the play calling always changes, DRASTICLY. It seems to work entirely on Joe's strengths to which he then proceeds to be everything we could possibly want from a QB in the playoffs. Something is off about that, Caldwell unleashed Joe and we had success in the playoffs with Cam C as well.

 

Kubiak was the only one to use Flacco DURING the regular season.....all of the concerns we had about Joe vanished that year...

[RayRayRaven]

On ‎1‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 10:36 AM, gtalk12 said:

 

You know what is very odd about this (I agree with you that it seems like Flacco doesn't see what the defense is doing) is that come playoff time the play calling always changes, DRASTICLY. It seems to work entirely on Joe's strengths to which he then proceeds to be everything we could possibly want from a QB in the playoffs. Something is off about that, Caldwell unleashed Joe and we had success in the playoffs with Cam C as well.

 

Kubiak was the only one to use Flacco DURING the regular season.....all of the concerns we had about Joe vanished that year...

kubeik s year was joes best?  Kubeik proved joe coul d do it every year?  omg  joe had a 91 pass ratin a great play action pass game and still threw 12 picks. I feel sick and am goin to bed on this

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

On 12/28/2016 at 10:17 PM, redrum52 said:

When the Colts literally hung a banner I laughed...  this is sick.  Please dont tell me this is how bad times have become around here where we compare our team to the Browns and want participation trophies...

Having just thought of this.

 

the colts logo is a horseshoe. Of course they would celebrate almost getting there

[K-Dog]

53 minutes ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

 

 

the colts logo is a horseshoe. Of course they would celebrate almost getting there

Quote worthy.

[usmccharles]

2 hours ago, RayRayRaven said:

kubeik s year was joes best?  Kubeik proved joe coul d do it every year?  omg  joe had a 91 pass ratin a great play action pass game and still threw 12 picks. I feel sick and am goin to bed on this

So what will it take to make you "happy"?  What "ratin" is your standard?  What INT is "acceptable" to you?  A team that has two 14 point leads on the team that goes to win the SB and blows them....Clearly was the QBs fault.  I will wait for your standards of stats, but im sure you wont even have any.

 

Side-note:  I still think we missed big time by not signing Alex Mack.  The Falcons OL all started the entire year together if i remember correctly, has the best WR in the NFL (imo) and the best RB duo in the league (most people's opinion).  I would love to have any of that here, hell, i would settle for just Mack.   Stats are cool and all, but there is one that matters more and Joe already did that. 

Edited January 31 by usmccharles