RedFire

APPRECIATION THREAD: Joe Flacco was a couple of possessions away from being in 4 Superbowls in 8 years!!!!

280 posts in this topic

45 minutes ago, RayRayRaven said:

yah but you goin back.  on that roster were a bunch of stars and solid role  players.  you cant go back. joe can't go back not even to 2012. you can only move on.  the huge dead cap hit by tradin joe this offseason is part of the comprehensuv plane. strong pic position and strong pics is the only way to get this team back. otherwis you got joe playin out his deal on a team without league class stars and play makers which is mendosa line from now until who knows when. we may be able to get even mor than two 1's from clevland but first you have to admit the problem. if he cant admit the problem he cant fix it. pitsburg is in the AFC title game.

Fine. I was simply responding to a post that was discussing that specific play 

So - on your topic of looking forward. Look at the teams at the top of the league and tell me how many of them got there by using a "comprehensuv plane" that involved being horrific for years in order to get strong "pic" positions? Oakland is the closest thing, but I'd dare say they aren't significantly better than we are. Heck - tell me what teams have managed to do this over the course of history? You could mention a team like Indy, but it took 2 decades of suck to finally land that pick from another planet in Manning. 

Burning your franchise to the ground so that you can suck for 5 years or more is not a winning strategy. 

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19 hours ago, Tank 92 said:

Catches it with his hands, wraps it up immediately and Moore never has time to strip it. Not turning and just falling down would have worked as well. Ball game and on the the SB. Worst play in Ravens history. 

If I remember correctly Boldin dropped a TD late in that same playoff game against the Steelers where who's your momma dropped the 4th down pass. 

Lmao I almost wrote TJ who's your momma lol

Edited by jdynamite
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19 hours ago, Tank 92 said:

Catches it with his hands, wraps it up immediately and Moore never has time to strip it. Not turning and just falling down would have worked as well. Ball game and on the the SB. Worst play in Ravens history. 

If I remember correctly Boldin dropped a TD late in that same playoff game against the Steelers where who's your momma dropped the 4th down pass. 

 

Revisiting highlights from that game, my gosh Cundiff's FG to tie, the flags on the pole were completely still. 

And his kick hung a left and flew away as if a tornado picked it up. 

Just wow. 

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1 hour ago, ALSKAN RAVEN FAN said:

I am a big Flacco fan PERIOD!!! That said this year he has to improve but Oz and Harbs have to get him guys who can make plays at the right time.

now or never for perriman and maxx i suppose.

 

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7 hours ago, balfan23 said:

 Oakland is the closest thing, but I'd dare say they aren't significantly better than we are. Heck - tell me what teams have managed to do this over the course of history? You could mention a team like Indy, but it took 2 decades of suck to finally land that pick from another planet in Manning. 

 

I'd say tennesee makin off with all those ram pics a few years back ranks pretty well.

dallas around 1990 got mutl picks for h. walker and though losing big turned it around in short order. what dallas actually got is over said but they had a comprehensuv p lan

I don't believ we can compete with new England with our coaches but not havin the players like we did in the lee evans era leaves us no chance.

we are in a good spot with joe. he has won a superbow and there are teams that will give a lot for a 33 year old qb on his homestretch. but I don't believ we are in a position others have been in with joe and that's a good reason for getting juicy juicy pics for him. and at a time when we are hurtin sorely for talant the timin could not be more ideal. sweet from sour, jus like that.

by the way carr pretty much outplayed joe both games one immens the other he won two.  this culd be the biggest haul evah for the rayvans.

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On 1/21/2017 at 7:14 PM, Tank 92 said:

Catches it with his hands, wraps it up immediately and Moore never has time to strip it. Not turning and just falling down would have worked as well. Ball game and on the the SB. Worst play in Ravens history. 

If I remember correctly Boldin dropped a TD late in that same playoff game against the Steelers where who's your momma dropped the 4th down pass. 

he failed to secure the ball. as much as i havent been a pitta fan lately because he isnt doing this anymore, but look at how he used to make those catches. in that exact scenario pitta would have been already bailing out to the ground, he wouldve had that ball in his gut, curled and secured, and fell backwards with 1 knee to the ground, he did it a million times in 2012. theres a way and way not to catch tight-window catches where the ONLY factor that matters is securing the catch. evans totally blew that one. 

and yeah, everyone wants to talk about the housh drop but boldin dropped a sure TD that hit him right in the chest which would have basically ended the game barring a great comeback by the steelers.

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1 hour ago, RayRayRaven said:

I'd say tennesee makin off with all those ram pics a few years back ranks pretty well.

dallas around 1990 got mutl picks for h. walker and though losing big turned it around in short order. what dallas actually got is over said but they had a comprehensuv p lan

I don't believ we can compete with new England with our coaches but not havin the players like we did in the lee evans era leaves us no chance.

we are in a good spot with joe. he has won a superbow and there are teams that will give a lot for a 33 year old qb on his homestretch. but I don't believ we are in a position others have been in with joe and that's a good reason for getting juicy juicy pics for him. and at a time when we are hurtin sorely for talant the timin could not be more ideal. sweet from sour, jus like that.

by the way carr pretty much outplayed joe both games one immens the other he won two.  this culd be the biggest haul evah for the rayvans.

tennessee had to suck horribly for years to be in this position, and it involved a trade back from another incompetent team who has sucked horribly for years as well. another factor, neither of those teams had 50m of dead cap as a result of unloading their franchise qb prematurely. 

what do you not understand about this very simple concept... if you trade joe flacco, you also have to cut half of your starters just to get UNDER the cap, which means you literally have no team to field, at which point you still have to continue cutting players just to be able to sign your draft classes, and you have to hope like hell that somewhere in that disaster of gutting your team of all its talent that you can be lucky enough to land a franchise qb. its really simple, cutting joe flacco guts the entire team of its ability to retain ANY PLAYERS INCLUDING DRAFTED ROOKIES.

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Ravens can't trade Joe Flacco no one wants him because he is a risk after his seasons since the superbowl no one knows who they're truly getting which puts GM's at odds with him including our own. The Ravens fans are dumbfounded as well going into the 2017 season of what we are going to see at QB.  Dead cap can be traded in the NFL now days but someone still has to flip the bill and I just don't see any team out there stupid enough to accept such a burdening contract. I don't expect big things or wonderment from Joe Flacco in 2017, I expect 2016 Joe Flacco too also be 2017 Joe Flacco.

 

Look he got paid, he has kids, he has nice home, nice wife, loving family, strong supporting cast at home. In 2017 unless contract changes 24.5 will be dropped into his bank account along with commercials or whatever else he does on the side.  I think Joe Flacco like most men would at his point in life feel... well, they have nothing left to prove to anyone including themselves. You know you're never going to be the best nor were you ever the best but they have achieved more than anyone ever thought they would in life (football) now its time to relax and reap the many favors of success. I don't think Joe Flacco cares anymore, and if he got cut tomorrow he would still have enough money to last him his entire life.

 

I am just realist fan and I don't get heart broken as often when we lose been watching this team so long I understand ups and downs.  I also understand this team is surely in rebuild mode... I don't expect a successful season next year just a 8-8 maybe 7-9 maybe 9-7 kind of year AS we are right now.  If this team can be  lucky enough and have cap space enough to land a few good players in free agency and have a nice draft I may be more hopeful. But to end on the main point, Joe Flacco appreciation? I think his payday is more than enough appreciation, more than enough being key. If he comes out next year and falls flat again, then I will probably be ready for a new QB on the roster.

 

At the end of the day, any haters must face the facts rather you love or hate Joe Flacco his contract state he will be apart of the Ravens for quite awhile longer, rain or shine.

Edited by SuRihtanil
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^^^ I'm not going to quote the whole post but no, dead cap can't be traded.  And no, Joe will not get an extra 24.5M in his bank account this season.  I think Joe's actual salary, aka money that will deposit into his account in the 2017 season, is around 6M-8M.  And after easy to do research, I see his salary is actually 6M for 2017.

 

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Flacco balled out in the playoffs in 10',11', 12' and almost the entire 14' game so he wasn't the reason for us not having more hardware.

10' TJ dropped that pass that hit him in the chest 

11' Evans fails to secure the ball

12' we win it all 

14' Flacco picked up where he left off with 6 straight TDs and we were in firm control of our destiny. Yes, the defense failed us, but Flacco's first pick to McCourty was a pass he led Torrey too far ahead with, as well as it was a play we had just ran, but just to the opposite side. 

The worst play was the interception though. I love Flacco's response, I'm not going to feel sorry for being aggressive or going for the W. Lmao bro. You know and I know that even if we score that TD, TB would have had an eternity to go right back down the field for the win. That was a bone head play. Torrey didn't fight for the ball, but guess what? The pass was overthrown and their was double coverage there. Why throw deep with it on second and short in enemy territory especially when we had a mauler offensive line that was moving the patriots defenders like rag dolls? Skip Bayless was screaming bloody murder on Twitter that someone needs to stop those maulers on Baltimore. Flacco just keep dialing up move the chain passes and we run the ball then I 100% we win that game. 

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15 hours ago, RayRayRaven said:

I'd say tennesee makin off with all those ram pics a few years back ranks pretty well.

dallas around 1990 got mutl picks for h. walker and though losing big turned it around in short order. what dallas actually got is over said but they had a comprehensuv p lan

I don't believ we can compete with new England with our coaches but not havin the players like we did in the lee evans era leaves us no chance.

we are in a good spot with joe. he has won a superbow and there are teams that will give a lot for a 33 year old qb on his homestretch. but I don't believ we are in a position others have been in with joe and that's a good reason for getting juicy juicy pics for him. and at a time when we are hurtin sorely for talant the timin could not be more ideal. sweet from sour, jus like that.

by the way carr pretty much outplayed joe both games one immens the other he won two.  this culd be the biggest haul evah for the rayvans.

I was asking for teams at the top of the league and you give me Tennessee? 

Dallas in the 1990s? The Walker trade has gone down as the worst trade in the history of the NFL. I don't think there is anyone else who is interested in seeing if they can top the worst trade in history. 

I've no idea what we could get pick wise for Joe, but I'm not so sure they'd be juicy juicy. We won't ever know, since we're not shopping him and I doubt anyone is pounding on our door offering the family farm. 

I'm pretty much done responding to this line of thinking. My advice to you is, settle in for the ride for the next couple years and wish Joe all the best. 

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On 1/22/2017 at 2:58 PM, Tru11 said:

now or never for perriman and maxx i suppose.

 

 

Flacco should at least try to build some rapport with those 2 guys @ offseason.   To build on that we can draft a receiver and lineman @ draft im sure.   I have a feeling we will add another veteran FA WR in the market.   Not sure how our market caps are but I don't like the inclination that we don't do anything to help Flacco.

At some point, Flacco has to lead and get better this offseason.  Dont you agree?  

How about Matt Ryan turning a 8-8 season with the same crew to becoming a SB contender?    If Matt has the will to self-improve, Flacco can also.   I like to see Flacco bringing in Maxx & Perriman to his place instead of hanging out with Pitta all the time to get something going.

 

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3 hours ago, balfan23 said:

I was asking for teams at the top of the league and you give me Tennessee? 

Dallas in the 1990s? The Walker trade has gone down as the worst trade in the history of the NFL. I don't think there is anyone else who is interested in seeing if they can top the worst trade in history. 

I've no idea what we could get pick wise for Joe, but I'm not so sure they'd be juicy juicy. We won't ever know, since we're not shopping him and I doubt anyone is pounding on our door offering the family farm. 

I'm pretty much done responding to this line of thinking. My advice to you is, settle in for the ride for the next couple years and wish Joe all the best. 

 

Speaking of the cowboys. Joe Flacco will surpass Troy Aikman & Steve Young in all time passing yardage next season! 

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_yds_career.htm

Edited by RedFire
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31 minutes ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

Flacco should at least try to build some rapport with those 2 guys @ offseason.   To build on that we can draft a receiver and lineman @ draft im sure.   I have a feeling we will add another veteran FA WR in the market.   Not sure how our market caps are but I don't like the inclination that we don't do anything to help Flacco.

At some point, Flacco has to lead and get better this offseason.  Dont you agree?  

How about Matt Ryan turning a 8-8 season with the same crew to becoming a SB contender?    If Matt has the will to self-improve, Flacco can also.   I like to see Flacco bringing in Maxx & Perriman to his place instead of hanging out with Pitta all the time to get something going.

 

yup he has to get better.

but these guys also need to stay healthy though.
to much of a revolving door on the o-line and these skill positions seemed to be made of glass.
perriman , maxx and dixon have so much potential but if they keep missing time then well they will become a waste.

really hope we resign wagner and maybe get an upgrade at C/LG.

starts with the o-line.

if everyone is healthy there should be little excuse for not having a quality offense.

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1 hour ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

How about Matt Ryan turning a 8-8 season with the same crew to becoming a SB contender?    If Matt has the will to self-improve, Flacco can also.   I like to see Flacco bringing in Maxx & Perriman to his place instead of hanging out with Pitta all the time to get something going.

While comparisons to Matt Ryan seemed appropriate, I'm now coming to realize there was a reason he was drafted #2 overall and why Steve wanted to give up a whole lot to get him. He is very cerebral and yes he makes every effort every year to improve. He makes everybody around him better too by working with them for as long as it takes to develop that chemistry and 'timing', with the emphasis being on developing timing with receiver routes. Flacco is bad where timing is concerned with his receivers. He needs to change that this year in the off season by doing what he said he would do. Will he actually do it? I don't know but if he doesn't do something about it, next year is going to be no different than this.

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1 hour ago, ellicottraven said:

While comparisons to Matt Ryan seemed appropriate, I'm now coming to realize there was a reason he was drafted #2 overall and why Steve wanted to give up a whole lot to get him. He is very cerebral and yes he makes every effort every year to improve. He makes everybody around him better too by working with them for as long as it takes to develop that chemistry and 'timing', with the emphasis being on developing timing with receiver routes. Flacco is bad where timing is concerned with his receivers. He needs to change that this year in the off season by doing what he said he would do. Will he actually do it? I don't know but if he doesn't do something about it, next year is going to be no different than this.

Yep, and while Ryan has been working on getting better, Flacco has already won a Super Bowl. Seriously, if we can be patient this long with #2 pick Ryan, I think we can still hold out hope for Flacco for a bit longer.

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33 minutes ago, Moderator 3 said:

Yep, and while Ryan has been working on getting better, Flacco has already won a Super Bowl. Seriously, if we can be patient this long with #2 pick Ryan, I think we can still hold out hope for Flacco for a bit longer.

I have been the biggest Flacco supporter for a long time and yes he did win us a SB. But, why do we constantly have to revert back to that 2012 playoff run in defending Flacco? What I was trying to say is Ryan is constantly improving. He is playing like a 9 yr veteran needs to play and is carrying his team on his back. Sorry but short of that playoff run I don't think one can claim Flacco carries the Ravens on his back. In fact, he doesn't. Just look at the regular season stats for these 2 QBs and the difference is telling. Yes, Ryan has a killer weapon in Julio Jones, but he's never had a stellar defense like Joe's had. Yes he's had Gonzalez and Roddy White too. But, it's not like Joe has been left on an island without weapons. He's had great weapons too. You can't ever discount the contributions of Mason, Boldin, Rice, SSS, etc. in the receiving department completely. Ryan has made the players around him better and its proven this year by taking a team considered to be dead in the water to a SB championship game. I don't think Flacco does or can do what Ryan does consistently. That is play at a consistent level. As for holding out hope for Flacco, sure we can. I think he'll do better this upcoming year, but not unless he feels the pressure of underperformance from all of us and the team management. I am unwilling to lower my expectations for my team just because its politically expedient to go easy on Flacco.

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2 hours ago, Moderator 3 said:

Prior to now, Ryan has been no different than Dalton, all about the regular season. 

Well at least they are winning enough games in the regular season to get their teams into the playoffs. Since the SB we are 32-34. Flacco is a 20 TD , 12-15 interception a year QB that needs to be proped up in order to win. He will always be only as good as his surrounding talent unless he takes the additional offseason time to improve and work with his receivers. 

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5 hours ago, Moderator 3 said:

Yep, and while Ryan has been working on getting better, Flacco has already won a Super Bowl. Seriously, if we can be patient this long with #2 pick Ryan, I think we can still hold out hope for Flacco for a bit longer.

This article from a statistics organization kind of illustrates my point about the comparison:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/matt-ryan-is-no-fluke/?addata=espn:frontpage

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If the Falcons win the Super Bowl then it's gonna be tough saying the Flacco better than Ryan but l'm sticking to Joe until the day he is with the Ravens. Hopefully we will see a huge improvement from Joe this season. 

Edited by hen826957
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No matter who you feel is better Ryan or Flacco, the fact is that the Falcons have put together a highly effective mix of skill position players around Matt which has helped to raise his level of play and to produce some gaudy numbers. To state the obvious, it ain't just him that has improved. But the proven formula for consistent offensive(and defensive for that matter) success remains in building an effective line. For me signing Mack as the anchor of an already solid group is what has put them over the top. 

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9 hours ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

Well at least they are winning enough games in the regular season to get their teams into the playoffs. Since the SB we are 32-34. Flacco is a 20 TD , 12-15 interception a year QB that needs to be proped up in order to win. He will always be only as good as his surrounding talent unless he takes the additional offseason time to improve and work with his receivers. 

You need to look at the full 9 years, though I can understand focusing on recent history.  I'm not saying that Flacco is better than Ryan nor am I saying Ryan is better than Flacco.  They are in 2 entirely different situations and truly need to be looked at in context.  I will always wonder what Flacco could have done with a decent OC.  2014 was such a tease. Meanwhile, Ryan has phenomenal talent around him and an OC that knows how to use it.  I certainly hope he wins a Super Bowl soon, like in less than 2 weeks. :)

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40 minutes ago, Moderator 3 said:

You need to look at the full 9 years, though I can understand focusing on recent history.  I'm not saying that Flacco is better than Ryan nor am I saying Ryan is better than Flacco.  They are in 2 entirely different situations and truly need to be looked at in context.  I will always wonder what Flacco could have done with a decent OC.  2014 was such a tease. Meanwhile, Ryan has phenomenal talent around him and an OC that knows how to use it.  I certainly hope he wins a Super Bowl soon, like in less than 2 weeks. :)

Let me ask you a question. Is it possible at all that the OC is only as good as the QB he's coordinating sometimes? Is it plausible to think that at the end of the day talent can take you only so far on a consistent basis? Cerebral football play can take you far but only on a more consistent basis. That is the fundamental difference between Ryan and Flacco. 

Like I read somewhere recently, Flacco seems to have slow football metabolism ( in that he digests plays a lot slower and reacts accordingly) compared to players like Brady, Rodgers, Luck, Brees, Wilson, Ben, Ryan, Stafford or even a Manning or Cousins imho.

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1 hour ago, ellicottraven said:

Let me ask you a question. Is it possible at all that the OC is only as good as the QB he's coordinating sometimes? Is it plausible to think that at the end of the day talent can take you only so far on a consistent basis? Cerebral football play can take you far but only on a more consistent basis. That is the fundamental difference between Ryan and Flacco. 

Like I read somewhere recently, Flacco seems to have slow football metabolism ( in that he digests plays a lot slower and reacts accordingly) compared to players like Brady, Rodgers, Luck, Brees, Wilson, Ben, Ryan, Stafford or even a Manning or Cousins imho.

My biggest knock on Flacco is he still lacks coverage diagnosis 9 years later. He often doesn't see the opening in the zone until the receiver passes it. He rather ever audibles at the line, which seems to be coaching not trusting him. He also curls up the second he sees pressure coming. He never makea over aggressive defenses pay by exposing their weaknesses by using screens or attacking the holes in coverage 

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2 hours ago, ellicottraven said:

Let me ask you a question. Is it possible at all that the OC is only as good as the QB he's coordinating sometimes? Is it plausible to think that at the end of the day talent can take you only so far on a consistent basis? Cerebral football play can take you far but only on a more consistent basis. That is the fundamental difference between Ryan and Flacco. 

Like I read somewhere recently, Flacco seems to have slow football metabolism ( in that he digests plays a lot slower and reacts accordingly) compared to players like Brady, Rodgers, Luck, Brees, Wilson, Ben, Ryan, Stafford or even a Manning or Cousins imho.

Again I have to ask, with all the talent Ryan has had around him, why has it taken so long to win a few playoff games?  Gonzales' career was wasted.

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4 minutes ago, Moderator 3 said:

Again I have to ask, with all the talent Ryan has had around him, why has it taken so long to win a few playoff games?  Gonzales' career was wasted.

Well because a lot of the talent has been on offense. Hasn't really ever had a great offensive line, nor even a serviceable defense.

I will point out that this season is a great example of when fans start labeling QBs as guys who "can't win playoff games" or "can never lead their team to a SB" should probably pump the brakes a bit. 

There was a time where we lumped guys like Flacco, Romo, Ryan, Stafford, etc. all in a group and said "these guys will never lead a team to a SB". And then some of these guys do. We even lumped in guys like Cam Newton into that group at one point.

Hopefully fans learn something from this. Just because a QB doesn't win a SB in his first like 5-6 years doesn't mean he never will.

 

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19 hours ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

Flacco should at least try to build some rapport with those 2 guys @ offseason.   To build on that we can draft a receiver and lineman @ draft im sure.   I have a feeling we will add another veteran FA WR in the market.   Not sure how our market caps are but I don't like the inclination that we don't do anything to help Flacco.

At some point, Flacco has to lead and get better this offseason.  Dont you agree?  

How about Matt Ryan turning a 8-8 season with the same crew to becoming a SB contender?    If Matt has the will to self-improve, Flacco can also.   I like to see Flacco bringing in Maxx & Perriman to his place instead of hanging out with Pitta all the time to get something going.

 

Agreed

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