[News] Late For Work 12/28: Offseason Changes Are Needed, But Not At Head Coach

[jsarrocohome@yahoo.com]

you guys always say players and I agree to some extent but what about coaches pees stinks period as far back as the super bowl we almost lost because of his 4th quarter defense every year different players But same coach same Results DB's 10 yards off let them go down and score. Morningwig is aTerrible OC fired from jets Detriot and Philly remember philly always the Brides Maid Had westbrook and never used him correctly same as our backs this year if we had a better OC we would be in the playoffs as far as harbaughs concerned their is no trophys for second place. 9 years 1 division title and 1 superbowl

[TheConquerorWorm]

  6 hours ago, balfan23 said:

The article really appeared to put the majority of the blame on our inability to reach the playoffs for the 3rd time in 4 years on the front office, more than Harbaugh and his staff. While the article does appear to question what direction we'll ultimately go in terms of who will lead the offense, nothing at all hinted at a change at DC.  

The front office deserves blame as they have wiffed on many high draft picks. Prime example? Matt Elam. I watched Elam play at Florida and nothing screamed first round pick. But, I screamed when he was selected and the Ravens reached for him and at the very least should have taken another too highly rated, Cyprien. Elam might have laid big hits on 175 lb. receivers but he is/was no match for NFL caliber players. The front office has proven by it's history that they cannot identify great offensive playmaker talent and that is concerning to say the least.

Cyprien hasn't been much better. For the first 3 years with the Jags, he was getting beat quite often & missing a ton of tackles (sound familiar?) - they benched him several times for several games, signed other veteran safeties and pretty much wrote him off. The Jags defense hasn't been anything special with him in it. He had a good year this year in his contract year but he's still a liability in coverage. The Jags are letting him walk, if that tells you anything.

It was just a bad draft year for safeties - no safety drafted after Elam has done anything substantial in the NFL either. Just like last year was a bad year for WRs - Kevin White, Nelson Agholor, Breshad Perriman, Phillip Dorsett, Devin Smith, Dorial Green Beckham, Devin Funchess - all top draft picks, none of them living up to that value.

[metalraven]

If the Ravens part ways with Harbaugh it will take him under ten seconds to be a Head Coach again.

Correct. And take the franchise years to recover. I don't always agree with Harbs, and he definitely has weaknesses. But he's a darn good HC and leader. These fickle fans with their pitch forks don't look at the big picture. It's all reactionary and impulsive responses.

[metalraven]

  6 hours ago, Shaky End of the Quarter said:

  7 hours ago, balfan23 said:

  7 hours ago, JD08 said:

I would like to see Harbaugh go, but there's not many good candidates that can replace him. He got rid of players that bumped heads with him and it has hurt the team, I think that's why we see players leave us to go play for Pagano or Rex. He never calls out Flacco for the many mistakes he makes but any mistake made by anyone else they get called out for it

First off, the FO gets rid of players. Perhaps Harbaugh will have his say, but I'm not sure who it is that we got rid of solely because they bumped heads with Harbaugh, who would have otherwise been a great service to the team. Please don't say Boldin, because there was no indication that he and Harbaugh didn't get along. That IMO was purely an Ozzie move. Who else are you thinking of? 

The enforcer of the secondary AKA the patriot killer. Does Bernard Pollard ring a bell? Does James Ihedigbo ring a bell to name a few?

Pollard was reported to be a real locker room pest - and also, as great a SS as he was, he was also a flag magnet. He gave the opponents a huge lot of free yardage.

And he wasn't all that "great." He was a good tackler, hard hitter and good vs the run, but he was AWFUL in coverage. The backfield we have now is actually awesome. Webb and Weddle had their first season together (Webb's first season at safety), and they were really good (aside from some mistakes). If we can shore up our CBs and get a pass rush, we'll be a great defense. Tavon is awesome, and is only going to get better. Canady showed promise; and if he comes back healthy, I think he's going to be good. Jimmy is not dependable, Wright sucks, and Powers is just middle of the pack.

[rave n us]

My take on the draft and or adding veterans. There are 2 important ingredients to a successful nfl player. Ability and speed seem to be top ranked by most teams but what good is ability if the football IQ is not there. Take Ray Lewis and Ed Reed, while they had ability they were football geniuses, always understanding the situation and how to capitalize on it. New England seems to always be selecting high football IQ guys. Tom Brady was picked 179th or so in the draft because they feared his physical abilities weren't there, but the IQ and drive trumped that. IQ translates into mistake free football and we know that the team that makes the fewest mistakes usually wins.

[JamesA119]

I agree with a lot of the posts. Bonafide pass rushers to help Suggs are needed.
The reason I'm not eager for a new OC is that, that will provide apologies for Flacco early next season. He usually doesn't start playing well till the 12 regular season game to begin with anyway, and a new OC will provide ammunition for his apologists. He needs to start playing well from the first game of the regular season, otherwise we're gonna again find ourselves in a position where we need something like 6 straight wins to make the playoffs. If we had beaten The Redskins and the Jets where would we be now?
A pro bowl caliber CB to play with Jimmy Smith, and Tavon Young. A physical heady safety to help Weddle and Webb.
Give Chris Moore reps, and add an outstanding WR through the draft or free agency

[ellicottraven]

4 hours ago, TheRavengers said:

Under Pagano as our DC which was 2011, the Ravens were 3rd in the league in total defense, ranked as 2nd in run defense and 4th in passing defense. We ended up going 12-4, won the division, had a home playoff game and were a Lee Evans-dropped pass away from going to the Super Bowl. 

Rex Ryan's story with us as DC should be obvious to everyone.

Thank you for illustrating my point with actual facts.

[metalraven]

Rex is NOT COMING BACK. Even if the Ravens wanted him back, he isn't coming back. Plus, he sucks. You say: "But he's aggressive!" Ya, and somehow all the teams he has coached SUCKED.

[ellicottraven]

4 hours ago, JD08 said:

I hope we get a new OC because Mornhinweg was just as bad as Trestman. I know this is a passing league now, but the team has always been the best when utilizing the run game w/ the play-action. Dean Pees has to go, his defense playcalling is horrible, if we are supposedly a #2 ranked defense, there's no reason we should give up a score in less than 2 min. Also Matt Elam has to go, he is horrible, been giving chance after chance to be on his team but never produces, there have many players deserving of his roster spot but for whatever reason he remains on the team

I don't think Flacco can excel as a pass only QB. He needs the deception of a good run game to thrive. He isn't Peyton Manning who could dissect any defense and carve them up through precision passing. He isn't Brady either that can really carve up any defense you can throw against them. He is a good QB that needs a strong running game to be really good.

[metalraven]

My take on the draft and or adding veterans. There are 2 important ingredients to a successful nfl player. Ability and speed seem to be top ranked by most teams but what good is ability if the football IQ is not there. Take Ray Lewis and Ed Reed, while they had ability they were football geniuses, always understanding the situation and how to capitalize on it. New England seems to always be selecting high football IQ guys. Tom Brady was picked 179th or so in the draft because they feared his physical abilities weren't there, but the IQ and drive trumped that. IQ translates into mistake free football and we know that the team that makes the fewest mistakes usually wins.

Great points.

[CQ1]

  4 hours ago, ByTheBay said:

  8 hours ago, sami said:

We were a foot away from winning the AFC north after playing a team on a 5 game winning streak, in their place, with the top RB and top WR and one of the top QBs in the league. And you guys want to fire everyone and start over. I think you'd be happier in Cleveland, they start over every two years.

No, Sorry but we still would have needed to win this week in cincy. Not an easy task for a jimmy less team. 

Sorry but no one player makes a team. We fought a great game but lost.

It wouldn't have been an easy task with Jimmy. For Flacco, and or the Ravens to win 2 road games in a row would have been close to impossible.

[Fastynart]

This article is full of crap. The change needs to start at the head coach. Harbaugh has proved he is incapable of leading this team. He has done nothing since Ed Reed and Ray Lewis left. His blunders in time management are well documented. His hard headedness in keeping players on the roster who do not perform is legendary. He is a terrible head coach. The Ravens also need someone who knows how to draft. Busts like Elam and Perriman have decimated the Ravens. You can't miss on so many early picks and be competitive. I am tired of these writers making lame excuses for Harbaugh and Newsome. If the Ravens are to move upward, it won't be with them at the helm.

[Ravenous_Ravens]

Changes are simple IMHO.

A) Run game got going, but really the problem is the fact they went away from what worked wonders, the ZONE RUN SCHEME. It's simple why it works so well, the blocking schemes are more straight forward so linemen can go lay the lumber. All those holding penalties on running plays could definitely go away with making a return to zone run scheme. Looking a Juan Castillo, because he was the proponent that brought about this change and has yet to show better results in the years since.

B) Draft more CB's. Don't just say your going to address it and then wait until half way through the draft again. This defense would have absolutely caused problems for any team with a solidified back end. Pass rush would get home more often even. A secondary player should be drafted in within the top 3 rounds each year until the secondary is no longer a weakness. Another bigger bodied CB would do wonders, for when Jimmy is banged up or whoever. * Part of my critique is the fact that with Tray's passing, they never really addressed this position last year as much as recovered from the off season tragedy.

C) Upgrade the offensive playbook. Without looking at stacks or stats, this offense under performed its ability too often. There were a few good glimpses of firing in all cylinders, but it cannot take over half way into the season to get to that point.

PLUS SIDE) The roster is in a relatively good position going into next season. A few FA that would be great to retain like BW and Wagner. Hopefully they can work out a fair deal. Other than an immediate need at secondary depth/talent wise, this next upcoming draft the Ravens should be able to throw out the positions and just grab best available every round. There is a great young core of players to build around now. Good thing this draft is supposedly deep at CB.

[Crusader]

I don't think John should be fired this year and maybe next. It took 5 years to reach the SB so give John 5 years to do it his way. Gary Kubiak year proved there is talent on this team for winning season. This way when the decision is made there is no question John's legacy was a result of the Ray& Ed company and a "Mile High Miracle". The Gary year gave another year but Joe's contract severely limited the wins for John.

[Purple Dawg 96]

I like Harbs alot but he isn't the one out on field throwing INTs!

[megalomarc]

So we need change, the problem is not with the HC. I agree. And after that, you say that the problem is we failed in previous drafts. So, should we fire Ozzie ? He brought some great veteran talent with Dumervil, Weddle and Smith Sr. But he also got rid of valuable veteran talent with Ed Reed, Bernard Pollard, Osemele, Haloti Ngata, Anquan Boldin, Torrey Smith, Courtnez Upshaw. Since 2012, this team has been almost completely dismantled and I find it harder to identify myself with it. Each of these moves have been reported as no brainers, but I have real doubts bout it.

I have faith in a combination of veterans and young talent at each position.

The defensive line would still benefit from the presence of Ngata, especially when the game is on the line. In one year (2013), we lost our 2 veterans safeties, letting this position unstable, putting too much hope and pressure on rookie Matt Elam without having a veteran from the house to mentor him. The offensive line has been a concern since winning the Superbowl, and the front office didn't make a serious offer to keep Osemele, even after Flacco's injury. Maybe Flacco could offer some of his money for a better OL. Giving virtual reality stuff or other gifts they don't need is not what is going to have him have a better OL. We are also rather week at center position since the departure of Matt Birk.

It seemed to me that Torrey Smith was never the same without Anquan Boldin on the other side. Both of them seemed to increase each other's value. So it still seems like a huge mistake to let Boldin go. Since then, the receiver position has been unstable. Relying too much on Smith Sr to do all the work is not a winning situation. The corner position hasn't been seriously adressed since we drafted Jimmy Smith, often injured, I thought we could have got a good one in 2016's draft. As surprisingly good as Tavon Young is, he is not a franchise cornerback. He cannot match with Gronkowsky for example. The outside linebacker position is now a concern. So basically, what we have now that is a strenght is middle linebacker, quarterback, running back, left tackle, guard, defensive line, kicker, fullback. We have a lot of needs, and I don't like saying it, but I believe the GM has a great part of responsibility.

[megalomarc]

And on top of everything, Harbaugh has made this team very boring. They are flat out boring to watch. There are no players on the team that excites the local fanbase and definitely not other NFL cities. Maybe the kicker, I guess.

I live in the DFW area and both times that the Ravens went to the Super Bowl, there were people excited about seeing them play.

The first Super bowl, people wanted to see that defense. This last Super bowl people were excited about seeing Ed and Ray.

Outside of Baltimore, people aren't so much into the team, but more about certain players on the team. When you have big personalities and great players, it increases your fanbase to include a lot of fans outside of Baltimore.

I am outside of Baltimore, I live in Quebec city. I became a fan due to Ray Lewis and especially Ed Reed. Without Smith Sr, I fear I might find it hard to watch.

[sizzlingdoom]

We need all new coaches except for Leslie Frazier. Bring in Billick and Reed. And maybe Rex. Never seen a season coached half this badly. Dean, but mostly Harbaugh, were responsible for at least 4 losses. Pathetic. Steve, you're about the best owner in sports. you better make a change cuz you're starting to lose all of us that support the ravens. really. Can't believe Wright not only stuck on the team but started. Disgusting. Then yeah, let's cover AB with someone that couldn't even stick on the 9ers roster. We had the talent to win it all this year. Harbaugh pulled us to the ground the whole year. Changes better be made

[Rav'n Maniac]

If Harbs isn't the problem, then he has to be the solution. When the HC doesn't have the X's & O's background, he has to hire and depend on his coordinators to lead the team. He hasn't done bad with the defense and special teams selections but, his offensive hires leave a lot to be desired.

[jsarrocohome@yahoo.com]

If Harbs isn't the problem, then he has to be the solution. When the HC doesn't have the X's & O's background, he has to hire and depend on his coordinators to lead the team. He hasn't done bad with the defense and special teams selections but, his offensive hires leave a lot to be desired.

I beg to differ with you in a lot of games we lost over the last couple years we lead in 4th quarter only to watch pees stupid prevent defense cost us the game if pees is here next year nothing will change

[stixfix69]

To be fair to Harbs, the OC's have left for HC jobs, Flacco has had how many OC's??? Coaches are like un-restricted free agents, they will go for the money or promotion. Can't argue Harbs track recrod, no way we allow him to go anywhere....Regardless of the talent we had due to free agency every team he put on the field competed, and we basically have been in every game we have lost......Lets not drink the kool-aid and even think there is a better coach out there....Would love if Rex came back, we need some real swagger on the defense.....Pees has done great until he goes prevent in the 4th when we have the lead only to lose games...Sorry, not how your defense starts, its how it finishes games....

[jsarrocohome@yahoo.com]

I like Harbs alot but he isn't the one out on field throwing INTs!

No but he's the Idiot in Charge throwing at phillys 12 yard line with 1st down and 6 minutes to go That's Just plain Stupid and he's horrible clock manager Our HC has actually cost 2 or 3 games every year with his inability to manage and adjust during games

[jsarrocohome@yahoo.com]

  19 hours ago, whobilly said:

If the Ravens part ways with Harbaugh it will take him under ten seconds to be a Head Coach again.

Correct. And take the franchise years to recover. I don't always agree with Harbs, and he definitely has weaknesses. But he's a darn good HC and leader. These fickle fans with their pitch forks don't look at the big picture. It's all reactionary and impulsive responses.

Wrong sir its from results or lack their of 9 years 1 division title 1 super bowl this isn't Cleveland we expect better

[Minionhunter]

  13 hours ago, metalraven said:

  20 hours ago, whobilly said:

If the Ravens part ways with Harbaugh it will take him under ten seconds to be a Head Coach again.

Correct. And take the franchise years to recover. I don't always agree with Harbs, and he definitely has weaknesses. But he's a darn good HC and leader. These fickle fans with their pitch forks don't look at the big picture. It's all reactionary and impulsive responses.

Wrong sir its from results or lack their of 9 years 1 division title 1 super bowl this isn't Cleveland we expect better

Glad you're not making the decisions.

[manofsteel]

Harbaugh needs to get mad, mean, and aggressive over the other coaches.Unless he approved those last two plays in the game against steelers. What the heck? was that? He needs to yell at dumb plays by players. Needs to get on Flacco's case. Just do something Harbaugh, show your people you are not going to take their stuff sittin down!

[steelcityraven]

  16 hours ago, steelcityraven said:

I say we bring back Rex Ryan. We can say whatever we ant about Dean Pees having the #5 defense in the NFL- what does it mean if we cannot count on him when we need to?

Over the past two years our defense under Pees has shown that Bend but don't Break ALWAYS breaks at the wrong time and that NO lead is safe.

2015
Week 1 The Broncos rally with 28 seconds left to beat us 19-13
Week 2. The Raiders rally behind Derek Carr to score the game winner with 26 seconds left leading the Raiders to a 37-33 win
Week 3. The Ravens blow a 14 point 4th quarter lead to the Bengals losing 28-24
Week 5. Jsoh McCown throws for 400 yards to come from behind and tie the came with seconds left and then leads a scoring drive to victory in over us in OT giving them a 33-30 win
Week 6. The 49ers and Kapernick hits a 51 yard pass to ABoldin and then a 21 yarder to Q Patton to lead the 49ers to a 4th quarter victory over us 25-20

Week 9. The Jags win on the last play of the game with a Jason Myers FG for a 22-20 victory over us

Week 13. Dolphins score two TDs in under a minute to beat the Ravens 15-13
Week 14 and 15 were blowouts losing to the Seahawks and Chiefs 35-6 and 34-14 respectively

Week 17 we saw Andy Dalton throw two 4th quarter TD passes to rally the Bengals past the Ravens 24-16

2016
Week 4. DCarr throws 4 TD passes including his final TD pass to Michael Crabtree to Rally the Raiders to a 28-27 victory in BMORE

Week 5. The Skins take the lead on a 50 yard drive in the fourth quarter (perriman later drops a TD pass in a comeback attempt but another 4th quarter comeback sinks us)

Week 6. Giants use a 75 yard 2nd half TD pass and then a 66 yarder to Odell Beckham with 1:24 left in the 4th to beat us 27-23

Week 7. The Jets send Ryan Fitzpatrick in for injured Geno Smith and Fitz leads the woeful Jets to 3 second half TDs for a 24-16 victory over us

Week 11. The Cowboys see rookie Dak Prescott lead them to 14 second half points to come from behind an beat us 27-17

Week 14. The Patriots see us rally and seize control of momentum heading into the 4th quarter only to give up an 80 yard TD pass to Chis Hogan sealing our fate with a 30-23 loss to the Pats.

Week 16. The Sqeelers erased a 14 point fourth quarter lead and scored 24 of their 31 points in the 2nd half (including 21 in the fourth quarter)

Pees bend but don't break philosophy doesn't work bc it ALWAYS breaks at the worst opportune movements. That has happened in 15 of our 17 loses over the past two years. (and BTW if we look at 2014 it is just as bad). That is a big enough sample. Pees should go. (I wouldn't mind bringing Rex back) but Rex or not - Pees got to go or it will be more of the same in 2017!

My only argument against Rex defense has been lit up by Tom Brady during Ryan tenure. Bills defense has been no better than Ravens lately no matter the QB. Pees at least keeps the game close no matter who the Ravens have play or where.

His lack of aggressive play calling with a lead is a concern. Everything looks like prevent defense when there is no pass rush.

Rex has his share of wins vs the PATS and his defense this year was without some key players (Reggie Ragland, Shaq Lawason, etc). Rex or not... Pees isn't working!

[steelcityraven]

  16 hours ago, steelcityraven said:

I say we bring back Rex Ryan. We can say whatever we ant about Dean Pees having the #5 defense in the NFL- what does it mean if we cannot count on him when we need to?

Over the past two years our defense under Pees has shown that Bend but don't Break ALWAYS breaks at the wrong time and that NO lead is safe.

2015
Week 1 The Broncos rally with 28 seconds left to beat us 19-13
Week 2. The Raiders rally behind Derek Carr to score the game winner with 26 seconds left leading the Raiders to a 37-33 win
Week 3. The Ravens blow a 14 point 4th quarter lead to the Bengals losing 28-24
Week 5. Jsoh McCown throws for 400 yards to come from behind and tie the came with seconds left and then leads a scoring drive to victory in over us in OT giving them a 33-30 win
Week 6. The 49ers and Kapernick hits a 51 yard pass to ABoldin and then a 21 yarder to Q Patton to lead the 49ers to a 4th quarter victory over us 25-20

Week 9. The Jags win on the last play of the game with a Jason Myers FG for a 22-20 victory over us

Week 13. Dolphins score two TDs in under a minute to beat the Ravens 15-13
Week 14 and 15 were blowouts losing to the Seahawks and Chiefs 35-6 and 34-14 respectively

Week 17 we saw Andy Dalton throw two 4th quarter TD passes to rally the Bengals past the Ravens 24-16

2016
Week 4. DCarr throws 4 TD passes including his final TD pass to Michael Crabtree to Rally the Raiders to a 28-27 victory in BMORE

Week 5. The Skins take the lead on a 50 yard drive in the fourth quarter (perriman later drops a TD pass in a comeback attempt but another 4th quarter comeback sinks us)

Week 6. Giants use a 75 yard 2nd half TD pass and then a 66 yarder to Odell Beckham with 1:24 left in the 4th to beat us 27-23

Week 7. The Jets send Ryan Fitzpatrick in for injured Geno Smith and Fitz leads the woeful Jets to 3 second half TDs for a 24-16 victory over us

Week 11. The Cowboys see rookie Dak Prescott lead them to 14 second half points to come from behind an beat us 27-17

Week 14. The Patriots see us rally and seize control of momentum heading into the 4th quarter only to give up an 80 yard TD pass to Chis Hogan sealing our fate with a 30-23 loss to the Pats.

Week 16. The Sqeelers erased a 14 point fourth quarter lead and scored 24 of their 31 points in the 2nd half (including 21 in the fourth quarter)

Pees bend but don't break philosophy doesn't work bc it ALWAYS breaks at the worst opportune movements. That has happened in 15 of our 17 loses over the past two years. (and BTW if we look at 2014 it is just as bad). That is a big enough sample. Pees should go. (I wouldn't mind bringing Rex back) but Rex or not - Pees got to go or it will be more of the same in 2017!

nice work!! but i do not feel ryans foot fetish ways will mesh with harbs biblical ways plus i dont think rex would want to come back to a team that by passed him for the hc job 9 years ago. we shall see what harbs decides to do but you should email him this post of yours

The Greek... you may be right but my post was more about the need for Pees to be on his way out then Rex to be on his way in. I really don't care if it is Rex or whoever... but I really hope it is not Pees

[Rav'n Maniac]

  2 hours ago, Rav'n Maniac said:

If Harbs isn't the problem, then he has to be the solution. When the HC doesn't have the X's & O's background, he has to hire and depend on his coordinators to lead the team. He hasn't done bad with the defense and special teams selections but, his offensive hires leave a lot to be desired.

I beg to differ with you in a lot of games we lost over the last couple years we lead in 4th quarter only to watch pees stupid prevent defense cost us the game if pees is here next year nothing will change

I mean no offense but, Pees is not the problem here. I agree that I don't care for the the 'Peesvent" defense, as I call it. In most cases you mentioned, he was forced to use that due to injuries and lack of pass rush.

You can't bring in a weaker CB and expect them to shut down one side of the field without safety help when Jimmy goes down. You have to hold both safeties back deep to help which is the prevent.

[RavenSpain]

  2 hours ago, jsarrocohome@yahoo.com said:

  3 hours ago, Rav'n Maniac said:

If Harbs isn't the problem, then he has to be the solution. When the HC doesn't have the X's & O's background, he has to hire and depend on his coordinators to lead the team. He hasn't done bad with the defense and special teams selections but, his offensive hires leave a lot to be desired.

I beg to differ with you in a lot of games we lost over the last couple years we lead in 4th quarter only to watch pees stupid prevent defense cost us the game if pees is here next year nothing will change

I mean no offense but, Pees is not the problem here. I agree that I don't care for the the 'Peesvent" defense, as I call it. In most cases you mentioned, he was forced to use that due to injuries and lack of pass rush.

You can't bring in a weaker CB and expect them to shut down one side of the field without safety help when Jimmy goes down. You have to hold both safeties back deep to help which is the prevent.

I think that is the point; the Ravens don't have the personnel to run and effective prevent defense. It worked well when we had Reed and Lewis; exceptionally well in the Super Bowl season. But now, without the right guys, it isn't working and Pees is at fault for not making a change in strategy.

[RavenSpain]

If you study leadership at all, you'll see a lot of the things Harbaugh does are textbook tenets of leadership. I too think it would be a huge mistake to let him go. Who is really better for the job? Maybe you could question some of his choices for his "generals." I'd like to see some young, fresh ideas at OC and DC. We need upgrades in personnel and the one thing no one is talking about is the o-line. If we get better there, the run game gets stronger, play-action works better, and Flacco has more time to go deep.