without blaming coaches, what are the Ravens main issues?

[Tank 92]

1 hour ago, PurpleCity5 said:

I see pass rush a lot but the lack of depth at CB is what does us in every year. We just put out guys out there who really shouldn't be out there. I think we need another #2 very badly and not just go for scraps. 

 

The thing is that a consistent pass rush can make average CBs look great, just as the lack of a pass rush make any CB look bad. Not saying we don't need some depth there but a consistent pass rush can make a marginal secondary look very good. For that reason I think pass rusher(s) have to the #1 priority on defense. In kinda keeping with the thought, I also think beefing up the O line(especially C) has to be the #1 priority on offense.

As the old saying goes, games are won and lost at the LOS in the trenches and for me that's where the most glaring issues of this team lie. 

Edited December 28, 2016 by Tank 92

[JoeyFlex5]

1 minute ago, Tank 92 said:

The thing is that a consistent pass rush can make average CBs look great, just as the lack of a pass rush make any CB look bad. Not saying we don't need some depth there but a consistent pass rush can make a marginal secondary look very good. For that reason I think pass rusher(s) have to the #1 priority on defense. In kinda keeping with the thought, I also think beefing up the O line(especially C) has to be the #1 priority on offense. As the old saying goes, games are won and lost at the LOS, in the trenches. 

lack of pass rush doesnt make jimmy smith look bad very often. matter of fact, jimmys presence alone is the reason our pass rush was hitting home at a decent rate most of the year, qbs arent even bothering to look jimmys way, meanwhile jimmy is so well trusted that the coverage is bracketed elsewhere, so qbs are looking to throw into the most cluttered part of the field and need to wait and be extra careful to allow a throwing lane to develop. 

the problem is, always has been and always will be, that our defense is built around jimmy. when he goes down our defense collapses. our safeties are playing the run more, we are bracketing coverage and disguising zone drops, we are press covering, we are blitzing, were doing it all and were doing it well. without that advantage of forcing a qb to basically ignore one receiver and then having to throw into a densely covered half of the field, our weaknesses get exposed. suddenly tavon young isnt as much of a stud because hes single covering, jerraud powers and shareece wright go from solid depth to absolutely horrid because the defense is spread out more, weddle isnt getting his hands on balls because hes covering rather than roaming, we cant tackle short of the sticks because we have to play so passively. 

jimmy smith is so crucial to this defense, i dont think people quite understand it. its no coincidence that our run defense and pass rush fell off a cliff when he went down, he gives that much freedom to the other 10 players. getting a player of jimmys caliber not only would give us a secondary that forces a qb to make tight-window throws on every passing down, but it also would allow us to continue playing at a high level when jimmy goes down. our defense is stellar when we have a shutdown cb, horrible when we dont have one, we gotta do everything in our power to make sure we always have at least one out there.

[ravefan52]

The penalties will come down with better players, I don't then that's a coaching issue. Also, I don't think player development is a big problem, we just don't have talented enough players. So the biggest issues in order:

1. Lack of pass rush off the edge - Judon is the only future piece we have

2. No power in the running game - it'll improve as Stanley and Lewis have a year under their belt, but we need more interior push. Flacco needs a good running game to do well

3. CB depth - I think Tavon can be a Chris Harris type corner play slot and outside. Jimmy is like Big Ben, hes going to miss games every year, and until there's good depth behind him the losing will continue. 

4. No offensive playmaker - Without Steve there is no one who strikes any kind of fear whatsoever into defenses

Edited December 28, 2016 by ravefan52

[ALPHA]

Oline and pass rush, in that order. Those two things will benefit our receivers and DBs going forward until we can find those pieces.

[kjbmore]

3 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

lack of pass rush doesnt make jimmy smith look bad very often. matter of fact, jimmys presence alone is the reason our pass rush was hitting home at a decent rate most of the year, qbs arent even bothering to look jimmys way, meanwhile jimmy is so well trusted that the coverage is bracketed elsewhere, so qbs are looking to throw into the most cluttered part of the field and need to wait and be extra careful to allow a throwing lane to develop. 

the problem is, always has been and always will be, that our defense is built around jimmy. when he goes down our defense collapses. our safeties are playing the run more, we are bracketing coverage and disguising zone drops, we are press covering, we are blitzing, were doing it all and were doing it well. without that advantage of forcing a qb to basically ignore one receiver and then having to throw into a densely covered half of the field, our weaknesses get exposed. suddenly tavon young isnt as much of a stud because hes single covering, jerraud powers and shareece wright go from solid depth to absolutely horrid because the defense is spread out more, weddle isnt getting his hands on balls because hes covering rather than roaming, we cant tackle short of the sticks because we have to play so passively. 

jimmy smith is so crucial to this defense, i dont think people quite understand it. its no coincidence that our run defense and pass rush fell off a cliff when he went down, he gives that much freedom to the other 10 players. getting a player of jimmys caliber not only would give us a secondary that forces a qb to make tight-window throws on every passing down, but it also would allow us to continue playing at a high level when jimmy goes down. our defense is stellar when we have a shutdown cb, horrible when we dont have one, we gotta do everything in our power to make sure we always have at least one out there.

Nice post

[trevorsteadman]

On offense... The o-line needs to get back to being feared. Osemele brought a ton of that bully with him and the team never replaced it. Which in turn had the team abandon the run way too quickly. The team needs to go out and find weapons on offense. This is an issue every year. You can almost name every team in the NFL with a bigger threat than what the team currently has. 

On defense... The system has to be changed. I've been preaching all along that Jimmy Smith is the key to the defense. A defense should not drop from #1 to #27 because of one player. Tavon Young was a rookie an the team's 2nd best corner. Nothing against him but he will most likely never be a #1 corner in the NFL because of his height. He got torched by Odell and Bryant when Jimmy was out. He is solid and lines up well against other receivers but his height will most likely be an issue for a long time. The team also needs younger pass rushers. And for a team that was bragging about its interior pass rush early in the season it quickly disappeared. 

[RavensRegime]

All the games we played this season, we beat ourselves. Plain & simple! 

On offense, too many holding penalties, too many dropped passes, Flacco supposed to be "Cool Joe", but at times make terrible decisions with the football that leads to a turnover or a bad sack when in fg range. Our WRs consistently cant get open. too many 3 & outs.

On defense, too many offside and pass interference penalties! Guys missing their assignments, tackling has been terrible, no pass rush at all, these guys played scared. Cant get off the field on 3rd down..

Let me be honest: This is not Ravens football. The offensive and defensive schemes doesnt fit our personnel. We got weapons on offense, but the play calling is terrible. We got speed at WR and 2 good running backs, big physical tight ends, but we always go 3&out, pathetic!  On defense we got depth up front, but our LBs, safeties, and corners are not physical or fast. The " bend but dont break" scheme is not fit for Ravens football. We suppose to be an attacking physical D, not one that sits back and watch the other team march right down the field with ease. 

Our team just dont have the confidence to win games, or to put teams away. Teams are not scared of us because we play scared, dont believe me, just look at all the close games we' ve been in the last 2 seasons! Its time to clean house so we can take back what was stolen from us, the AFC North crown.

 

 

[nextgen_RavensFan]

10 hours ago, omar586 said:

lets just hire REX as the DC of the this team and our D will b fine.

I am not sure why everyone is so high on bringing rex back. It would in no way bring back the defense he had in his tenure here. Too many players with very different skill sets have changed. Ral Lewis was a once in a lifetime guy, Ed Reed played by his own rules and could have cared less what Ryan said. Our Linemen do not even have the same agility and size. Rex was a success due to the players just like Brian was. The team won despite those 2 "coach's". 

That defense could adjust to cover each others weaknesses, this defense barely knows their own roles let alone cover up others weaknesses.

I think like the original poster had mentioned, we need to get rid of the ones who cannot stay healthy firstly, Keep the defense full throttle the entire 60 minutes and not play our prevent and bring back a heavy hitter like Pollard so if the passing game cannot be stopped at least the middle of the field will be a scary place to roam.. 

On offense we need to either pick a run first or a pass heavy offense then build a decent line to play to which ever strategy we choose (hopefully run first). That way we eliminate relying on Joe so much and let him just become a manager as he is not a game changing QB.

[ALPHA]

7 minutes ago, nextgen_RavensFan said:

I am not sure why everyone is so high on bringing rex back. It would in no way bring back the defense he had in his tenure here. Too many players with very different skill sets have changed. Ral Lewis was a once in a lifetime guy, Ed Reed played by his own rules and could have cared less what Ryan said. Our Linemen do not even have the same agility and size. Rex was a success due to the players just like Brian was. The team won despite those 2 "coach's". 

That defense could adjust to cover each others weaknesses, this defense barely knows their own roles let alone cover up others weaknesses.

I think like the original poster had mentioned, we need to get rid of the ones who cannot stay healthy firstly, Keep the defense full throttle the entire 60 minutes and not play our prevent and bring back a heavy hitter like Pollard so if the passing game cannot be stopped at least the middle of the field will be a scary place to roam.. 

On offense we need to either pick a run first or a pass heavy offense then build a decent line to play to which ever strategy we choose (hopefully run first). That way we eliminate relying on Joe so much and let him just become a manager as he is not a game changing QB.

All respect to what he did for us I definitely dont want the Rex circus back in town.

[Militant X 1]

Coaching is intertwined with the Ravens fiasco and not so easily dismissed or discounted imo.  However, my main issues with the Ravens are:

1. No high caliber or high quality WR's on offense that can actually make major or huge plays when needed.  Serviceable cats at best on the roster. 

2. Ineffective and inconsistent pass rushers.  Younger, faster, stronger and hungrier lions are desperately needed at the OLB spots.  Suggs and Doom are done!

3. CB quality and depth is atrocious.  No one actually puts fear in QB's...including Jimmy cause he's down more often than not.

4. Offensive scheme is extremely archaic and outdated and therefore predictable and easy to stop due to the lack of offensive talent.

The Ravens have looked like the lost boys the entire season.  Other teams are clearly head and shoulders above the Ravens talent wise.  

There are a few "possible" pieces there to build around but in comparison to other "top teams" it's not even close so don't fool yourselves!

 

 

Edited December 28, 2016 by Militant X 1

[Static]

4th Quarter defense. 

 

2nd and 3rd quarter offense. 

[Rav'n Maniac]

I feel one of the hottest topics this offseason will be the Bobby Boucher syndrome that has plagued this team. Our waterboys are just bad. They are constantly shoving bottles in players faces that don't want H2O, streaming their facemasks and missing their mouths or splashing their faces. Heck some of these guys don't even realize that many of the players wear clear visors.

Yeah, I'm in one of those kind of moods today and have absolutely nothing of significance to offer. 

[kjbmore]

3 hours ago, trevorsteadman said:

On offense... The o-line needs to get back to being feared. Osemele brought a ton of that bully with him and the team never replaced it. Which in turn had the team abandon the run way too quickly. The team needs to go out and find weapons on offense. This is an issue every year. You can almost name every team in the NFL with a bigger threat than what the team currently has. 

On defense... The system has to be changed. I've been preaching all along that Jimmy Smith is the key to the defense. A defense should not drop from #1 to #27 because of one player. Tavon Young was a rookie an the team's 2nd best corner. Nothing against him but he will most likely never be a #1 corner in the NFL because of his height. He got torched by Odell and Bryant when Jimmy was out. He is solid and lines up well against other receivers but his height will most likely be an issue for a long time. The team also needs younger pass rushers. And for a team that was bragging about its interior pass rush early in the season it quickly disappeared. 

He's a rookie, it's been an awesome first year, we need to to get another starting calibre corner and we will have a top tier group when healthy

Can't believe we're sitting here saying we need another corner again, wake the hell up front office/ Harbs - shareece, powers, Arrington aren't the answers

[RaineV1]

On offense: Drive killing penalties is entirely on the players.

On defense: The front seven simply not being able to beat the blocker to get to the QB or RB.

[rmcjacket23]

12 hours ago, omar586 said:

lets just hire REX as the DC of the this team and our D will b fine.

Rex's defenses are struggling in the NFL these days...

[VermontRaven]

1 hour ago, kjbmore said:

He's a rookie, it's been an awesome first year, we need to to get another starting calibre corner and we will have a top tier group when healthy

Can't believe we're sitting here saying we need another corner again, wake the hell up front office/ Harbs - shareece, powers, Arrington aren't the answers

I know it's frustrating, but good corners are hard to find. There are plenty of other teams out there that are surely saying the same thing.That being said, out search for another starting caliber corner should be at the top of our wish list

[VermontRaven]

1 hour ago, kjbmore said:

He's a rookie, it's been an awesome first year, we need to to get another starting calibre corner and we will have a top tier group when healthy

Can't believe we're sitting here saying we need another corner again, wake the hell up front office/ Harbs - shareece, powers, Arrington aren't the answers

I know it's frustrating, but good corners are hard to find. There are plenty of other teams out there that are surely saying the same thing.That being said, out search for another starting caliber corner should be at the top of our wish list

[Tank 92]

13 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

lack of pass rush doesnt make jimmy smith look bad very often. matter of fact, jimmys presence alone is the reason our pass rush was hitting home at a decent rate most of the year, qbs arent even bothering to look jimmys way, meanwhile jimmy is so well trusted that the coverage is bracketed elsewhere, so qbs are looking to throw into the most cluttered part of the field and need to wait and be extra careful to allow a throwing lane to develop. 

the problem is, always has been and always will be, that our defense is built around jimmy. when he goes down our defense collapses. our safeties are playing the run more, we are bracketing coverage and disguising zone drops, we are press covering, we are blitzing, were doing it all and were doing it well. without that advantage of forcing a qb to basically ignore one receiver and then having to throw into a densely covered half of the field, our weaknesses get exposed. suddenly tavon young isnt as much of a stud because hes single covering, jerraud powers and shareece wright go from solid depth to absolutely horrid because the defense is spread out more, weddle isnt getting his hands on balls because hes covering rather than roaming, we cant tackle short of the sticks because we have to play so passively. 

jimmy smith is so crucial to this defense, i dont think people quite understand it. its no coincidence that our run defense and pass rush fell off a cliff when he went down, he gives that much freedom to the other 10 players. getting a player of jimmys caliber not only would give us a secondary that forces a qb to make tight-window throws on every passing down, but it also would allow us to continue playing at a high level when jimmy goes down. our defense is stellar when we have a shutdown cb, horrible when we dont have one, we gotta do everything in our power to make sure we always have at least one out there.

OK, I don't agree with all you are saying here, but you make some valid points.  Also I'm not sure what this has to do with the point of what I posted, which is a consistent pass rush, or the lack of can help/hurt the abilities of a secondary to do their job, including the CBs.

I'm pretty confident if we had 2014 vintage Suggs/Doom to pressure Ben in the 4th quarter on Sunday we are still playing meaningful football games.      

Edited December 28, 2016 by Tank 92

[JoeyFlex5]

24 minutes ago, Tank 92 said:

OK, I don't agree with all you are saying here, but you make some valid points.  Also I'm not sure what this has to do with the point of what I posted, which is a consistent pass rush, or the lack of can help/hurt the abilities of a secondary to do their job, including the CBs.

I'm pretty confident if we had 2014 vintage Suggs/Doom to pressure Ben in the 4th quarter on Sunday we are still playing meaningful football games.      

You said a good pass rush can make average cbs look great and no pass rush can make any cb look bad. But our defenses performance with Jimmy and no pass rush would say otherwise. 

Obviously a better pass rush makes our defense better, but a PROVEN formula for us is have one shutdown cb, a good high iq safety, and another good cb, that paired with a pees called front seven gives us a top 5 performning unit. If we are gonna depend on having a shutdown cb to have an elite defense, we might as well have 2 shutdown cbs to make it even better and if one goes down We don't feel the sting like we have in years past.

[PurpleCity5]

13 hours ago, Tank 92 said:

The thing is that a consistent pass rush can make average CBs look great, just as the lack of a pass rush make any CB look bad. Not saying we don't need some depth there but a consistent pass rush can make a marginal secondary look very good. For that reason I think pass rusher(s) have to the #1 priority on defense. In kinda keeping with the thought, I also think beefing up the O line(especially C) has to be the #1 priority on offense.

As the old saying goes, games are won and lost at the LOS in the trenches and for me that's where the most glaring issues of this team lie. 

I agree and disagree. I don't think it makes an average CB look great, that wasn't the case in 2014 when we had the best pass rush and our CBs looked pretty awful when Jimmy went down. I think it makes an average CB look better, but not great. We saw our defense get sliced up with quick passes and screens because teams knew how vulnerable our CBs were. 

Now of course, Jimmy getting injured has been a problem time and time again, that's certainly one of them but the other is that you don't have much depth back there. You still need a starter lining up along side Jimmy and when Jimmy or the starter goes down, then you need someone back there capable of doing something. After that, then yes, injuries just became a problem for you. 

I think both OLB and CB are the biggest priority and C is right behind them. 

Edited December 28, 2016 by PurpleCity5

[ellicottraven]

14 hours ago, omar586 said:

we need to stop shying away from SOME talented draft picks with baggage.

This too!

[ellicottraven]

We need to draft a couple of future superstars. We need to strike it lucky in the upcoming draft. We haven't had much luck with the last 3 early round draft picks. No other way to rationalize it period.

[jdynamite]

Honestly the problems this team had this year are the same problems from last year ( that's why it's hard to not have some fault on coaches ) * Inability to commit to the run game long enough for it to be established, foolish penalties on both sides of the ball, and an unimaginative passing attack. 

Defensely this team must add more pass rushers and CBs.. depth in those areas are extremely thin, anytime Jimmy Smith went down the defense crumbled the most obvious example being the Giants game.  

Terrell Suggs with a Torn bicep was still was the most effective and consistent pass rusher on this team..  

I believe these DBs need to work on what I will call spacial recognition ~ if it's 3rd down and 6 or 3rd and goal don't give the WR an eight yard cushion. A defense is called but these guys choose their technique and spacing. 

 

The team had a million different oline combinations, unfortunately Jeremy Zuttah was apart of them all, I hope they can find a suitable replacement for him.   Wagner stepped up big as the season went on so I think he just priced himself out of our range like KO. 

WRs- again spacial recognition, if it's 3rd and 6 why are receivers and tight-ends running 4yd routes, it's stupid especially given the lack of passes in stride.

* WRs & TEs need to make more tough plays, this means those highly contested passes, learn how to make themselves available on broken plays, practice breaking off a route and coming back to the QB. Too often on broken play guys would be standing around after their curl route only S.Smith had the sense to fight back to the ball I hope they learned something!   

 

[ravensnation5220]

I think it's a youth issue. Were leaning on aging veterans at certain positions, more or less skill positions, to play consistently throughout the year. There's no mix of young guys, and when there is they don't seem ready. We need to hit on our early round picks. That's what's holding us back in my eyes. 

[Tank 92]

3 hours ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

You said a good pass rush can make average cbs look great and no pass rush can make any cb look bad. But our defenses performance with Jimmy and no pass rush would say otherwise. 

Obviously a better pass rush makes our defense better, but a PROVEN formula for us is have one shutdown cb, a good high iq safety, and another good cb, that paired with a pees called front seven gives us a top 5 performning unit. If we are gonna depend on having a shutdown cb to have an elite defense, we might as well have 2 shutdown cbs to make it even better and if one goes down We don't feel the sting like we have in years past.

Fair enough.  I guess I should have worded it differently and said an effective pass rush can help to hide deficiencies in the secondary(see 2014) and also help to improve any secondary(including CBs) performance.

I fully agree we need another quality CB on the squad as our depth there is poor other than a developing Tavon Young. And I agree not having that guy(s) is definitely one of the reasons the D's performance fell off at times when Smith was out, but I just don't agree that it was the sole reason. Also take into account the quality of a couple of the opponents when he wasn't playing this year(Dallas, NE, etc.) Also, wasn't Mosely out a couple of those games(?) as well, which didn't help the D as a whole. Think about Jimmy playing every game and Weddle going down in the same games he missed. Don't you feel it would have been had just as bad, possibly a worse effect on the secondary?   

And I still think we win easily without Smith on Christmas Day if we had an effective pass rush. 

Edited December 28, 2016 by Tank 92

[Tank 92]

3 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

I agree and disagree. I don't think it makes an average CB look great, that wasn't the case in 2014 when we had the best pass rush and our CBs looked pretty awful when Jimmy went down. I think it makes an average CB look better, but not great. We saw our defense get sliced up with quick passes and screens because teams knew how vulnerable our CBs were. 

Now of course, Jimmy getting injured has been a problem time and time again, that's certainly one of them but the other is that you don't have much depth back there. You still need a starter lining up along side Jimmy and when Jimmy or the starter goes down, then you need someone back there capable of doing something. After that, then yes, injuries just became a problem for you. 

I think both OLB and CB are the biggest priority and C is right behind them. 

Yeah, we had major issues in the secondary as a whole in 2014 even when Jimmy was playing and Siz/Doom were the only reasons we were able to hold anything together. And totally agree all three you mention are major needs. Maybe Kaufusi helps to provide some relief.

[Jonah DeVito]

Definitely the coaches. 

[Purple Punishment]

Our problem is talent evaluation and scouting. We haven't nailed a draft in forever. We've missed the mark on way too many picks since our 2012 season.

Taking chances on developmental players with top picks is a testament to the ability of our scouts. Everyone says it's Ozzies fault, ultimately it does fall on him. We don't have the same scouts we had when we put together monster defenses. We need a better scout team

 

[omar586]

14 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Rex's defenses are struggling in the NFL these days...

we have ozzie, we draft better than most 

[omar586]

9 hours ago, ellicottraven said:

We need to draft a couple of future superstars. We need to strike it lucky in the upcoming draft. We haven't had much luck with the last 3 early round draft picks. No other way to rationalize it period.

we need to trade our 2nd and 3rd picks for 4th rnd picks, we seem to hit gold on those, so might as well do that,