Bad Pass Rush or Bad Scheme?

[ravensdfan]

3 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

No, never tied it, either...

And anyone who watched the Patriots game knows it wasn't even close. The defense forces two three and outs and the offense responds with... a safety. The defense then forced a punt and the offense responded by... punting. I'm not pinning it on the offense, but it was a horrible game from the entire team, not a defensive collapse. The Ravens were very fortunate for two Patriots turnovers in the red zone or the game wouldn't even be close at all.

I mean, no, not really. It's just that you have two games in which Jimmy was out and in two of those, the defense faced a top 5 WR (OBJ, Brown). Plus, there were two games against a top 5 offense. I don't understand why people don't expect a play maker to make a play. 

It matters little as Pees just came out and said the defenses problem is finishing games! lmbo Of course, in true Pees fashion, he threw every player on defense under the bus and said it was their fault.

[BmoreBird22]

6 minutes ago, ravensdfan said:

It matters little as Pees just came out and said the defenses problem is finishing games! lmbo Of course, in true Pees fashion, he threw every player on defense under the bus and said it was their fault.

Yeah, logic really doesn't matter with you. I've noticed.

Nothing he said in that presser was untrue...

Edited December 29, 2016 by BmoreBird22

[ravensdfan]

18 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Yeah, logic really doesn't matter with you. I've noticed.

Nothing he said in that presser was untrue...

No logic escapes YOU.

Your excuse is "Jimmy was out". Except that wasn't true for all the collapses and shouldn't affect just the end of the game anyway. So then it was "but those were top 5 offenses". So you moved to another excuse, like the defense is not required to perform if the opposing offense is any good. Your count for games we gave up 4th quarter leads was incorrect. Even without the Patriot game. You are here arguing that they don't collapse.

And then, when Pees comes out and says their problem is not finishing games - you agree. I mean do you not see your own run around?

Yes, yes I know. Five seasons, a myriad of different players and the same issue is not Pees' fault. The only common denominator for those five seasons is not to blame one iota for the defense's continual inability to finish games.

Edited December 29, 2016 by ravensdfan

[BmoreBird22]

Just now, ravensdfan said:

No logic escapes YOU.

Your excuse is "Jimmy was out". Except that wasn't true for all the collapses and shouldn't affect just the end of the game anyway. So then it was "but those were top 5 offenses". So you moved to another excuse, like the defense is not required to perform if the opposing offense is any good. Your count for games we gave up 4th quarter leads was incorrect. Even without the Patriot game. You are here arguing that they don't collapse.

And then, when Pees comes out and says their problem is not finishing games - you agree. I mean do you not see your own run around?

Yes, yes I know. Five seasons, a myriad of different players and the same issue is not Pees' fault. The only common denominator for those five seasons is not to blame one iota for the defense's inability to finish games.

No, you're really just entirely missing the point. 

I'll try my best to break it down for you in a way that you might understand, which is difficult when you refuse to relent on your hate and see logic.

Jimmy was out against the Steelers and the Giants (when they made their comeback). Prior to Jimmy's exit, OBJ was held to 2 catches for 12 yards. Is it really just a coincidence that OBJ all of a sudden finds his groove when Jimmy goes out? No, probably not. We actually broke it down in another thread, but the defense has had a 12 point difference when Jimmy isn't in. That's a big deal. 

If you paid attention to the Patriots game in particular, you can see that when Jimmy is in, you just cannot test him deep. He wasn't allowing anything over the top and made plays on the ball the few times he was tested deep. 

The other point is that people seem to get this idea that offenses aren't supposed to make plays. You know, you've got some of the best offenses in football (Patriots, Raiders, Steelers) in a league that favors the offense and we should expect that they'll never make a play? I mean, shoot, like I said before, you have two top five receivers in Brown and OBJ and two quarterbacks who are top 5 in the MVP race in Carr and Brady. These players are expected to make plays. That's just a simple fact. It doesn't help that you're playing against some of the best offensive players in the league without your top corner. Do you see why this would be an issue?

I do agree that the defense needs to finish, but that's not entirely a Dean Pees situation. Sometimes players simply have to actually go out and make a play.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

This should be good. Jimmy Smith's biggest fan vs. adamant Pees hater

 

But as I've said previous(it was deleted for reasons I won't go into for the sake of the mods) it's the lack of pressure. Doom is old, Suggs is old, Judon shows promise but will never be a #1, and Jernigan is inconsistent and disappears at times. 

 

Pees can't magically make them all play better when two are on decline, one sometimes doesn't show up, and on is a rookie.  

 

Im not the biggest Pees fan in the world, in fact, I wouldn't be against him being fired. But our biggest problem was lack of pressure. Not a Pees problem. Same as last season. Rinse, repeat. 

[BmoreBird22]

34 minutes ago, LosT_in_TranSlatioN said:

But as I've said previous(it was deleted for reasons I won't go into for the sake of the mods) it's the lack of pressure. Doom is old, Suggs is old, Judon shows promise but will never be a #1, and Jernigan is inconsistent and disappears at times. 

I said this prior in this thread, but at one point on Sunday, the Ravens threw out Jernigan, Suggs, Judon, and maybe Doom, but definitely the first three.

If I said those three were out on the same down, you'd think sack, right?

Nope, instead it was a long pass play because Ben had five plus seconds to move around. But hey, at least they got the quarterback hit.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

5 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I said this prior in this thread, but at one point on Sunday, the Ravens threw out Jernigan, Suggs, Judon, and maybe Doom, but definitely the first three.

If I said those three were out on the same down, you'd think sack, right?

Nope, instead it was a long pass play because Ben had five plus seconds to move around. But hey, at least they got the quarterback hit.

Well in part the Steelers have a good oline. But I don't trust Suggs as a pass rusher. Most of his sacks have been effort sacks this season. He's been on the decline. Judon needs to develop more but has a ton of promise. Loads more than Smith showed last year. Jernigan is a very good player but isn't elite. I've always said he's a good tertiary guy.

 

if you ask me. We need Henry and Kaufausi to come out big next year to help out the interior pressure. Don't be surprised if we draft another Dlinemen in addition to an edge rusher

[The Raven]

1 hour ago, BmoreBird22 said:

No, you're really just entirely missing the point. 

I'll try my best to break it down for you in a way that you might understand, which is difficult when you refuse to relent on your hate and see logic.

Jimmy was out against the Steelers and the Giants (when they made their comeback). Prior to Jimmy's exit, OBJ was held to 2 catches for 12 yards. Is it really just a coincidence that OBJ all of a sudden finds his groove when Jimmy goes out? No, probably not. We actually broke it down in another thread, but the defense has had a 12 point difference when Jimmy isn't in. That's a big deal. 

If you paid attention to the Patriots game in particular, you can see that when Jimmy is in, you just cannot test him deep. He wasn't allowing anything over the top and made plays on the ball the few times he was tested deep. 

The other point is that people seem to get this idea that offenses aren't supposed to make plays. You know, you've got some of the best offenses in football (Patriots, Raiders, Steelers) in a league that favors the offense and we should expect that they'll never make a play? I mean, shoot, like I said before, you have two top five receivers in Brown and OBJ and two quarterbacks who are top 5 in the MVP race in Carr and Brady. These players are expected to make plays. That's just a simple fact. It doesn't help that you're playing against some of the best offensive players in the league without your top corner. Do you see why this would be an issue?

I do agree that the defense needs to finish, but that's not entirely a Dean Pees situation. Sometimes players simply have to actually go out and make a play.

Stop wasting your time bro she won't ever get it and she doesn't want to get it

[redrum52]

6 minutes ago, The Raven said:

Stop wasting your time bro she won't ever get it and she doesn't want to get it

Exactly.

[ravensdfan]

13 minutes ago, The Raven said:

Stop wasting your time bro she won't ever get it and she doesn't want to get it

Again, stop sideswiping with your garbage. Be a man.

1 hour ago, BmoreBird22 said:

No, you're really just entirely missing the point. 

I'll try my best to break it down for you in a way that you might understand, which is difficult when you refuse to relent on your hate and see logic.

Jimmy was out against the Steelers and the Giants (when they made their comeback). Prior to Jimmy's exit, OBJ was held to 2 catches for 12 yards. Is it really just a coincidence that OBJ all of a sudden finds his groove when Jimmy goes out? No, probably not. We actually broke it down in another thread, but the defense has had a 12 point difference when Jimmy isn't in. That's a big deal. 

If you paid attention to the Patriots game in particular, you can see that when Jimmy is in, you just cannot test him deep. He wasn't allowing anything over the top and made plays on the ball the few times he was tested deep. 

The other point is that people seem to get this idea that offenses aren't supposed to make plays. You know, you've got some of the best offenses in football (Patriots, Raiders, Steelers) in a league that favors the offense and we should expect that they'll never make a play? I mean, shoot, like I said before, you have two top five receivers in Brown and OBJ and two quarterbacks who are top 5 in the MVP race in Carr and Brady. These players are expected to make plays. That's just a simple fact. It doesn't help that you're playing against some of the best offensive players in the league without your top corner. Do you see why this would be an issue?

I do agree that the defense needs to finish, but that's not entirely a Dean Pees situation. Sometimes players simply have to actually go out and make a play.

Sure offenses make plays. But you can't spend all season arguing with those who make the claim the defense is not really that improved it is the caliber of offenses we've played - and then turn around and say they aren't expected to perform against top offenses. Today it is the top corner, other seasons it was other players - it is always some excuse.

To say it is all Pees is incorrect. To say it is not Pees at all is also incorrect. Especially when this one season is not an anomaly. It is the norm since he came here.

If the defense held the Steelers scoreless the entire 2nd half - but the offense failed to score with say, Smith Sr out - or Wallace - those who defend Pees would be calling for the OC's head. Shoot Marty hasn't had a full season and the thread for who our new OC will be has been there for weeks now. lol The hypocrisy is absurd.

 

Edited December 29, 2016 by ravensdfan

[BmoreBird22]

8 minutes ago, ravensdfan said:

Again, stop sideswiping with your garbage. Be a man.

Sure offenses make plays. But you can't spend all season arguing with those who make the claim the defense is not really that improved it is the caliber of offenses we've played - and then turn around and say they aren't expected to perform against top offenses. Today it is the top corner, other seasons it was other players - it is always some excuse.

To say it is all Pees is incorrect. To say it is not Pees at all is also incorrect. Especially when this one season is not an anomaly. It is the norm since he came here.

Well, how about this- offer up a solution and tell me exactly what Pees should have done differently on Sunday. I won't even ask for anything like timestamps or the names of a play call; just tell me exactly what needed to be done differently. 

I am saying that we're acting like the defense is the only one actually playing or the only ones who get paid. 

Was the defense improved? Vastly. They are lightyears better than 2015 and if they just had that 2014 pass rush, this defense could rival Denver. 

However, something has to give in the NFL. You take a great offense and put it against a great defense and one will win. Unfortunately in the NFL today, it's usually the offense.

By the way, no one says it's not Pees at all.

Edited December 29, 2016 by BmoreBird22

[allblackraven]

I want know what happened to our D line at the end of the season. Complacency? Undisclosed injuries? Man-handled by superior O lines? Outcoached in the trenches? Just not as good as we thought it was?

[BmoreBird22]

1 hour ago, ravensdfan said:

If the defense held the Steelers scoreless the entire 2nd half - but the offense failed to score with say, Smith Sr out - or Wallace - those who defend Pees would be calling for the OC's head. Shoot Marty hasn't had a full season and the thread for who our new OC will be has been there for weeks now. lol The hypocrisy is absurd.

If you really don't think that people make a multitude of excuses for the offense, then you're really not reading this board or you really love double standards.

Although, you may really like double standards because I remember you praising Patricia for those eight in coverage, but you love to bash Pees for those three man rushes.

Edited December 29, 2016 by BmoreBird22

[jazz1988]

1 hour ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Well, how about this- offer up a solution and tell me exactly what Pees should have done differently on Sunday. I won't even ask for anything like timestamps or the names of a play call; just tell me exactly what needed to be done differently. 

I am saying that we're acting like the defense is the only one actually playing or the only ones who get paid. 

Was the defense improved? Vastly. They are lightyears better than 2015 and if they just had that 2014 pass rush, this defense could rival Denver. 

However, something has to give in the NFL. You take a great offense and put it against a great defense and one will win. Unfortunately in the NFL today, it's usually the offense.

By the way, no one says it's not Pees at all.

 

It's definitely true that the defense  has improved alot since 2015 but not being able to finish out games has been a problem.We saw it against The Patriots and Steelers game which are both games The Ravens needed to win but this problem isn't really new. I can't blame everything on Dean Pees and I think he done a great job this year but I may be time for The Ravens to go in a  new direction . 

[BmoreBird22]

1 minute ago, jazz1988 said:

 

It's definitely true that the defense  has improved alot since 2015 but not being able to finish out games has been a problem.We saw it against The Patriots and Steelers game which are both games The Ravens needed to win but this problem isn't really new. I can't blame everything on Dean Pees and I think he done a great job this year but I may be time for The Ravens to go in a  new direction . 

I'm not opposed to this at all. I think the time has come for Harbaugh, so it's only fair to say that I think it's time for the coordinators, too.

[ravensdfan]

2 hours ago, BmoreBird22 said:

If you really don't think that people make a multitude of excuses for the offense, then you're really not reading this board or you really love double standards.

Although, you may really like double standards because I remember you praising Patricia for those eight in coverage, but you love to bash Pees for those three man rushes.

I praised the disguised coverages - which is one of my complaints with Pees. Even when he brings different looks - they are decades old looks that any half decent QB will see and immediately adjust. Perhaps that is why those top 5 offenses tore us up. No creativity.

I do admit to hating 3 man rushes as a rule though. I think it is some PTSD from Mattison.

The truth is I have become resigned to Pees. It is apparent with Harbs lack of patience and complete willingness to fire OCs at the drop of a hat - Pees has some dirt on him or something lol However, I also recognize that with Pees brand of defense, one had best be bulking up the offense if there is to be any success.

 

Edited December 30, 2016 by ravensdfan

[BmoreBird22]

Just now, ravensdfan said:

I praised the disguised coverages - which is one of my complaints with Pees. Even when he brings different looks - they are decades old looks that any half decent QB will see and immediately adjust. Perhaps that is why those top 5 offenses tore us up. No creativity.

I do admit to hating 3 man rushes as a rule though. I think it is some PTSD from Mattison.

The truth is I have become resigned to Pees. It is apparent with Harbs lack of patience and complete willingness to fire OCs at the drop of a hat - Pees has some dirt on him or something lol However, I also recognize that with Pees brand of defense, one had best be bulking up the offense if there is to be any success.

I'm not opposed to firing Pees because I'm not opposed to getting rid of Harbaugh. I think if you get rid of Harbaugh, Pees is a definite goner, too.

However, how do you propose disguising coverages? Most of those coverage disguises come from who drops and who doesn't, playing a press bail in zone, etc, etc. There's not really too many ways to get insanely creative with coverage. What the Patriots did was simply stick to their men like glue. Jimmy is the one that I feel most comfortable with being able to actually stick to his man, and if he doesn't, he sure as hell knows how to make a play on the ball with recovery speed.

[ravensdfan]

1 hour ago, BmoreBird22 said:

I'm not opposed to firing Pees because I'm not opposed to getting rid of Harbaugh. I think if you get rid of Harbaugh, Pees is a definite goner, too.

However, how do you propose disguising coverages? Most of those coverage disguises come from who drops and who doesn't, playing a press bail in zone, etc, etc. There's not really too many ways to get insanely creative with coverage. What the Patriots did was simply stick to their men like glue. Jimmy is the one that I feel most comfortable with being able to actually stick to his man, and if he doesn't, he sure as hell knows how to make a play on the ball with recovery speed.

It is about more than just who drops and who doesn't. It is about lining up presenting one coverage, and then dropping into another. Showing Cover 3, right at pre-snap shifting to Cover 2 (just an example).

I think Harbs is safe this year. I'm not on the wagon for firing him but I'd see the reasoning behind it. But who would you replace him with?

[BmoreBird22]

10 hours ago, ravensdfan said:

It is about more than just who drops and who doesn't. It is about lining up presenting one coverage, and then dropping into another. Showing Cover 3, right at pre-snap shifting to Cover 2 (just an example).

I think Harbs is safe this year. I'm not on the wagon for firing him but I'd see the reasoning behind it. But who would you replace him with?

The only issue is that pre snap, so many of these coverages look the exact same. They're so similar in their alignments. I mean, with Cover 3, you're linebackers may space out a little more than Cover 2 and you're strong safety may drop into the box a little more, but generally, these alignments are very similar. 

The real idea is to mitigate the inherent issues with each coverage. For example, Seattle primarily plays Cover 3, which generally has the corners line off about 7-8 yards because they drop to the deep thirds, about 20-25 yards off. But wait, Seattle shows press? Seattle shows press because in Cover 3, that cushion combined with the immediate drop leaves quick, short passes wide open until the OLB and SS can get outside to the flat and if they are slow to get there, you now have the sideline wide open with a corner who needs to come downhill and make the sure tackle. Seattle fixes this by playing press bail and riding the vertical downfield, as an example.

If I had my way, just without looking at tons of names, Sean Payton immediately comes to mind. He's going to make, I believe, like $9M next year and the Saints don't want to pay it, but they're willing to accept almost any draft compensation. Why not throw a sixth or seventh rounder? Sean Payton is an incredibly gifted and brilliant offensive mind and would instantly solve the offensive continuity issues and give Joe the best offensive mind he's ever had.

[BmoreBird22]

http://www.baltimorebeatdown.com/2016/12/30/14124730/is-dean-pees-really-that-much-of-a-problem-steelers-edition

I did a fan post over on Baltimore Beatdown, if anyone is interested. If the mods want, I could make it its own thread, but I think the Dean Pees threads are a bit much as is, so I wasn't going to do that. I will forewarn you that it is a very long article.

Basically, I looked at those three Steelers touchdown drives and kinda picked out some of the plays that I felt really were detrimental to the drive and cost the Ravens a shot at winning. 

I don't want it to sound like I'm absolving Pees entirely of blame because I'm not, but I also want to present the side that shows the players just aren't executing.

I think a very fair question would be why the Ravens don't play more man coverage in the fourth in these types of situations. The idea behind playing zone and not man is you can protect your lesser corners who may not be great athletes or may not have the best coverage skills (Wright, Powers) and give them more help from linebackers and safeties and prevent the big play. However, these players are failing on their assignments and still allowing these big chunk yardage plays, some that may not have happened in a man coverage situation, so it is fair to wonder, in my opinion. I just think zone is a safer bet if you've ever seen Wright try to cover across the middle of the field or seen Powers in man very often. 

Also, another issue is that Pees plays a lot of zone defense in the beginning of the game, anyway, so what's the big change. In this particular game, we were seeing a lot of Tampa 2/Cover 2 in the fourth, which is a bend but don't break defense, but one the Ravens played for the entire game. What's the difference in the fourth quarter versus the first three? Pees in his presser pointed to the possibility of players playing more tentative so that they aren't the guy to cost their team the game. I think this is entirely valid. Two plays that I'll point to as an example are the Jesse James catch up the seam for 21 and the Antonio Brown catch and run underneath for 21. On the James catch, Mosley dropped so far back into his zone that he left himself no chance to actually carry James down the seam. Was Mosley scared of getting beat deep down the seam where there's a void in the safeties? Maybe. Maybe he thought it was better to not get beat over the top. On Brown's play, Wright didn't even attempt to react to the flat and instead carried his man all the way down the sideline, even as Brown came across. Was Wright scared of driving to the flat because his man might break loose on a corner route that Webb wouldn't have time to react to? I don't know. It's a possibility.

I can't pinpoint exactly what's wrong with the defense, but I hope it's something that the Ravens get worked out next year. It's very frustrating to see this loose, fast defense all of a sudden go so tentative and scared in the fourth because they don't want to get beat. Don't play to not get beat. Play to make the play that wins the game.

[Willbacker]

It kills me to see some posters claiming Pees has "exotic blitzes" when what I mostly see is maybe 7 men lining up on the scrimmage and then the offense has to guess who is coming. Ooooooo. and usually the QB runs a cadence that actually show who is blitzing. QB audibles and Ravens still blitz the same ones that were showing blitz. Yep real exotic. Never audibling. Nothing. You never see the Ravens dropping any DLinemen in coverage. Or how bout bringing an outside corner off the edge. Or what do you know maybe have a delayed blitz. Their blitzes are pathetic and very obvious and my favorite Pees description...vanilla. Ravens also figgering out snap count is horrendous. Pretty much reason why we cant get a good 4 man passrush but ya know whats that got to do with Pees lol.

@BmoreBird22 you can disguise coverages by dropping a safety in a short middle zone and dropping a LB off into the flat or showing man coverage but zoning but I know you already know this but man cmon you know Pees gets off the gas pedal and drops into soft zones time and time again to keep the play in front and run clock which ultimately costs us the game or makes it one hell of a nailbiter. Be honest man how much confidence did you have that we could shut Pitt down after Juice scored. I know I didn't but I thought we was gonna at least hold them to a FG lol. Our defense instills no fear when at one time it used too and that's just a fact no matter how high we ranked.

[BmoreBird22]

51 minutes ago, Willbacker said:

It kills me to see some posters claiming Pees has "exotic blitzes" when what I mostly see is maybe 7 men lining up on the scrimmage and then the offense has to guess who is coming. Ooooooo. and usually the QB runs a cadence that actually show who is blitzing. QB audibles and Ravens still blitz the same ones that were showing blitz. Yep real exotic. Never audibling. Nothing. You never see the Ravens dropping any DLinemen in coverage. Or how bout bringing an outside corner off the edge. Or what do you know maybe have a delayed blitz. Their blitzes are pathetic and very obvious and my favorite Pees description...vanilla. Ravens also figgering out snap count is horrendous. Pretty much reason why we cant get a good 4 man passrush but ya know whats that got to do with Pees lol.

@BmoreBird22 you can disguise coverages by dropping a safety in a short middle zone and dropping a LB off into the flat or showing man coverage but zoning but I know you already know this but man cmon you know Pees gets off the gas pedal and drops into soft zones time and time again to keep the play in front and run clock which ultimately costs us the game or makes it one hell of a nailbiter. Be honest man how much confidence did you have that we could shut Pitt down after Juice scored. I know I didn't but I thought we was gonna at least hold them to a FG lol. Our defense instills no fear when at one time it used too and that's just a fact no matter how high we ranked.

Go ahead and read that fan post I made. It's pretty long winded, but you might learn a few things about what went wrong.

Also, none of those things are really creative. I mean, truly, the most creative thing you can do is not tip your hand at all. 

Also not sure how you figure they're going to "show man, then zone". That's.... not really a thing and shows a bit of a lack of understanding on how many of these zone concepts work.

Also, you'd be EXTREMELY hard pressed to find a team that doesn't pretty much follow the exact same zones for each of their players. Like, you aren't going to put a linebacker into the deep thirds and a safety out in the flat for the sake of mixing up Cover 3.

I just read the first portion of your post (didn't at first because it didn't pertain to me), but I am convinced you didn't watch the game. You're asking for corner blitzes off the edge and a lineman dropping into coverage. The Ravens did exactly that on the final drive two or three times, off the top of my head.

I have said this before, but fans are really bad at evaluating defense because if the outcome they wanted didn't happen, then the play call they expect to make it happen couldn't have happened. For example- if the Ravens don't blitz, there's no way they can get a sack. If a touchdown is allowed, there's no way it was man coverage. If a sack happens, it's never a four man rush. If it's an interception, it's never zone.

Edited December 30, 2016 by BmoreBird22

[Willbacker]

15 minutes ago, BmoreBird22 said:

Go ahead and read that fan post I made. It's pretty long winded, but you might learn a few things about what went wrong.

Not to long to read but its also just an opinion cuz apparently this writer seems to think every play was perfectly called and it was only just the players that lacked the execution which is fine but the bottomline is.........drumroll........who is teaching these players what to do in certain situations? Who holds players accountable? Who teaches the bad techniques? And how long has this been going on? Its the same ol same ol. If its lack of execution sorry I blame the coaching staff.

One time the Ravens had it where if the situation was you had to either hold on to the lead or take the lead I would go with I want to hold on to the lead cuz I got confidence we could do it. Now its the other way around.

I also like the way you avoided the Pitt question. Is it cuz you wasn't confident?

 

 

[omar586]

On 12/27/2016 at 11:46 AM, Jonah DeVito said:

Can we bring Rex back? He just got fired 

that's what i say, the thing about pees, he doesn't adjust and doesn't scheme to cover our deficiencies. its the same old thing with him, prevent defense for all of our issues, rex was a genius when he was here, because he schemes well and adjust. i think rex would be fine here because all he's gonna focus on is the D. bring back that organized chaos Ozzie.

[Tru11]

1 hour ago, Willbacker said:

It kills me to see some posters claiming Pees has "exotic blitzes" when what I mostly see is maybe 7 men lining up on the scrimmage and then the offense has to guess who is coming. Ooooooo. and usually the QB runs a cadence that actually show who is blitzing. QB audibles and Ravens still blitz the same ones that were showing blitz. Yep real exotic. Never audibling. Nothing. You never see the Ravens dropping any DLinemen in coverage. Or how bout bringing an outside corner off the edge. Or what do you know maybe have a delayed blitz. Their blitzes are pathetic and very obvious and my favorite Pees description...vanilla. Ravens also figgering out snap count is horrendous. Pretty much reason why we cant get a good 4 man passrush but ya know whats that got to do with Pees lol.

@BmoreBird22 you can disguise coverages by dropping a safety in a short middle zone and dropping a LB off into the flat or showing man coverage but zoning but I know you already know this but man cmon you know Pees gets off the gas pedal and drops into soft zones time and time again to keep the play in front and run clock which ultimately costs us the game or makes it one hell of a nailbiter. Be honest man how much confidence did you have that we could shut Pitt down after Juice scored. I know I didn't but I thought we was gonna at least hold them to a FG lol. Our defense instills no fear when at one time it used too and that's just a fact no matter how high we ranked.

Ray Lewis and Ed Reed where what made others fear us.
Prime Ngata and Suggs also played a huge role.

We dont have those caliber players anymore and the odds are we wont every get those caliber players again on the field at the same time.

 

 

[Tru11]

14 minutes ago, Willbacker said:

Not to long to read but its also just an opinion cuz apparently this writer seems to think every play was perfectly called and it was only just the players that lacked the execution which is fine but the bottomline is.........drumroll........who is teaching these players what to do in certain situations? Who holds players accountable? Who teaches the bad techniques? And how long has this been going on? Its the same ol same ol. If its lack of execution sorry I blame the coaching staff.

One time the Ravens had it where if the situation was you had to either hold on to the lead or take the lead I would go with I want to hold on to the lead cuz I got confidence we could do it. Now its the other way around.

I also like the way you avoided the Pitt question. Is it cuz you wasn't confident?

 

 

ever considered that the players we have are not as talented as they players we used to had?

or a wild guess here but the players the opponents have are simply just more talented then the players we have?

its quite interesting to see people outraged that guys like OBJ and Antonio Brown beat the living crap out of any of our CBs not named jimmy smith.

there is not 1 person on this planet that can turn wright and powers into players that will be able to lock down the likes of OBJ/Brown in single man cov like they are prime time or revis.....

offenses get paid to and at some point they will figure out how to beat an defense.
it actually says a lot that the defense manages to stop offense for 3 quarters and then break once its the 4th quarter.
after 3 quarters you pretty much have used up everything you have planned and practiced.....

if our own offense actually managed to do a  something in those 3 quarters then we did not had to worry about the 4th because the game would have been out reach.

however it usually also takes our offense 3 quarters to figure out how to do a something and its the reason why we are in close games going into the 4th.

[Willbacker]

2 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

Ray Lewis and Ed Reed where what made others fear us.
Prime Ngata and Suggs also played a huge role.

We dont have those caliber players anymore and the odds are we wont every get those caliber players again on the field at the same time.

 

 

I agree very much here Tru but remember only 1 of those players was with us during our 1st SB and still these guys need to be coached up and in the right position and frame of mind to make the plays. That's in the coaching. We had all 4 of these guys with Mattison and we were bleh. We had all 4 of these guys during Pees's 1st yr in our 2nd SB but our defense was still not that great. We almost lost that damn SB and it wasn't cuz of the lights lol

I truly believe Ozzie picks players like he's always picked players but the tenacity and the big thing clutch is just not there under Pees and he needs to be held accountable and by accountable I mean shown the door

[Willbacker]

7 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

ever considered that the players we have are not as talented as they players we used to had?

or a wild guess here but the players the opponents have are simply just more talented then the players we have?

its quite interesting to see people outraged that guys like OBJ and Antonio Brown beat the living crap out of any of our CBs not named jimmy smith.

there is not 1 person on this planet that can turn wright and powers into players that will be able to lock down the likes of OBJ/Brown in single man cov like they are prime time or revis.....

offenses get paid to and at some point they will figure out how to beat an defense.
it actually says a lot that the defense manages to stop offense for 3 quarters and then break once its the 4th quarter.
after 3 quarters you pretty much have used up everything you have planned and practiced.....

if our own offense actually managed to do a  something in those 3 quarters then we did not had to worry about the 4th because the game would have been out reach.

however it usually also takes our offense 3 quarters to figure out how to do a something and its the reason why we are in close games going into the 4th.

Maybe they are as talented. You see spurts constantly from guys like Jernigan then they disappear or they make boneheaded decisions. That's not on coaching?

Its also does say a lot when you stop them for 3 qtrs. It also says a lot when they break down in the 4th qtr. You know why? its called bad defensive calls. Getting off the accelerator. Running scared. Again did you have any confidence we could stop Pitt? Do you have any confidence in stopping anybody? Do you only hold the players accountable for 4th qtr collapses? Its really mindblowing that people want to show Marty the door for 1 call but 5 yrs of 4th qtr collapses is okay.

[Tru11]

13 minutes ago, Willbacker said:

I agree very much here Tru but remember only 1 of those players was with us during our 1st SB and still these guys need to be coached up and in the right position and frame of mind to make the plays. That's in the coaching. We had all 4 of these guys with Mattison and we were bleh. We had all 4 of these guys during Pees's 1st yr in our 2nd SB but our defense was still not that great. We almost lost that damn SB and it wasn't cuz of the lights lol

I truly believe Ozzie picks players like he's always picked players but the tenacity and the big thing clutch is just not there under Pees and he needs to be held accountable and by accountable I mean shown the door

during our first SB the defense was ridiculously stacked lol.

also with mattison we had a top 5 defense and that was with Ed and ray well into their 30s already so past their prime  you could say.

also pees only had them during his first season as the DC in 2012 at which reed was 34 and ray 37.
you cant really expected them to be still as good as they where when they played under rex and such lol

you could actually say that the lights played a huge role in the SB as it totally resetted the game making everyone starting from scratch again.
Prior to that both the offense and defense where playing pretty darn good.
After it even the offense was terrible not only the defense.

Clutch comes down to a players football IQ.
some are able to develop it while others will keep on making the same mistakes ..

 

[allblackraven]

36 minutes ago, Tru11 said:

if our own offense actually managed to do a  something in those 3 quarters then we did not had to worry about the 4th because the game would have been out reach.

What are you talking about? Our offense scored 27 at Pittsburgh. How many points would you be OK with?