Bad Pass Rush or Bad Scheme?

[Perfekt]

The defense was by no means terrible this year but this trend has been happening since Chuck left town. When we have a lead under Pees in must win games we always find ways to blow it. Since Dean has taken over we have not had a pass rush. I don’t believe that we don’t have the talent but I believe it’s more of a scheme issue. I hope that we make a change at DC but I doubt it because John will make an excuse for him. We have seen the best that Dean has to offer and I believe it’s time to move on. I hope that we can have a good discussion about this as I may be wrong. I just have not liked the way he has coached our defense and how we suddenly have no pass rush but before he was DC we developed talent better than almost everyone else.

[Jonah DeVito]

Can we bring Rex back? He just got fired 

[trevorsteadman]

It's called you have an outside linebacker coming back late in the season, the other outside linebacker playing with a torn bicep, and your interior pass rush underperforming the last 3/4 of the season. 

[Perfekt]

@trevorsteadman I will agree those things factor in but look at the body of work as a whole. It has been this way since 2013 when he took over the DC spot.

[CalvinSmoke]

Pees did all that he could... The blitzes that he brought in this year was exotic, the lack of speed on our defense has been apparent since the Super Bowl year. I'd be open to change but it's not because I think Pees sucks... 

[rmw10]

18 minutes ago, Perfekt said:

@trevorsteadman I will agree those things factor in but look at the body of work as a whole. It has been this way since 2013 when he took over the DC spot.

Or it hasn't.  We were tied for second in the league in sacks in 2014, and middle of the pack in 2013 and the injury riddled 2015.

There are certainly reasons to dislike Pees, but this is not his fault at all.  I don't know how it could be a scheme issue when our pass rushers can't beat a blocker 1-on-1.  Look at the talent level and injuries and tell me who is at fault.

This year, we had Suggs coming off a torn Achilles and he tore his biceps later in the season.  You had Dumervil who hardly played due to injury.  You had a completely ineffective Za'Darius.  You had an ILB in McClellan.  Judon showed promise as a young player.

In 2015, you lost Suggs to the Achilles, had Dumervil as a full time guy instead of a part time player, and Za'Darius racking up coverage sacks, and still ranked middle of the pack.

In 2014, you had Suggs, Dumervil, and McPhee at full force and we were one of the best pass rushing teams in the league.

In 2013, you had Suggs again coming off of injury and he still did well.  Dumervil didn't have his best year, and McPhee was transitioning to OLB.

Edited December 27, 2016 by rmw10

[Glen1024]

Defense will always be vanilla under pees even with everyone healthy it's vanilla

[AsianRice]

7 minutes ago, Glen1024 said:

Defense will always be vanilla under pees even with everyone healthy it's vanilla

Pees' defense is Jimmy Smith....he schemed it around Jimmy, so once he goes down, the whole defense will collapse....one man defense....

[GrimCoconut]

56 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Or it hasn't.  We were tied for second in the league in sacks in 2014, and middle of the pack in 2013 and the injury riddled 2015.

There are certainly reasons to dislike Pees, but this is not his fault at all.  I don't know how it could be a scheme issue when our pass rushers can't beat a blocker 1-on-1.  Look at the talent level and injuries and tell me who is at fault.

This year, we had Suggs coming off a torn Achilles and he tore his biceps later in the season.  You had Dumervil who hardly played due to injury.  You had a completely ineffective Za'Darius.  You had an ILB in McClellan.  Judon showed promise as a young player.

In 2015, you lost Suggs to the Achilles, had Dumervil as a full time guy instead of a part time player, and Za'Darius racking up coverage sacks, and still ranked middle of the pack.

In 2014, you had Suggs, Dumervil, and McPhee at full force and we were one of the best pass rushing teams in the league.

In 2013, you had Suggs again coming off of injury and he still did well.  Dumervil didn't have his best year, and McPhee was transitioning to OLB.

I'm blaming Ozzie more than anyone because these first, second, and third round pick failures have hurt this team significantly especially those invested into the same position. I love Ozzie and I generally liked this draft but Correa is a pick I still question, WR and CB are problems after all these years, are hurting this team. I am thinking the reason we can't get an identity on offense because we don't draft for an identity and that's why we can't establish one. 

[Tru11]

if your 4 rushers cant beat their 5 blockers , you are in trouble.

if their 3 rushers can beat your 5 blockers , you are also in trouble.

you can scheme all you want, in the end its the players who need to get it done.

[izvoodoo]

Yeah, it's not the scheme.  You can scheme pressure, but unless you can beat players man to man you're not gonna' get a lot of pressure.  

[GrimCoconut]

Pees shouldn't have to scheme pressure but he has to do it when you have two old pass rushers with injuries and coming off injuries as young guys fail to develop except Judon--hopefully he continues to improve because Smith looked good last year but flamed out this year. 

[reed20]

2 hours ago, Jonah DeVito said:

Can we bring Rex back? He just got fired 

He needs to come back home

[rmw10]

7 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

Pees shouldn't have to scheme pressure but he has to do it when you have two old pass rushers with injuries and coming off injuries as young guys fail to develop except Judon--hopefully he continues to improve because Smith looked good last year but flamed out this year. 

I think that's where Pees succeeded earlier in the season, but I think it's bitten him these past 2 games because the NT position has been really bad.  If they can't eat those blockers, those schemed pressures aren't getting there.  I've noticed Mosley trying to come up the middle a few times, only to be stonewalled by a G because Williams was being handled by the C alone.

[Jonah DeVito]

23 minutes ago, reed20 said:

He needs to come back home

That would make me so happy 

[Glen1024]

13 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

Pees shouldn't have to scheme pressure but he has to do it when you have two old pass rushers with injuries and coming off injuries as young guys fail to develop except Judon--hopefully he continues to improve because Smith looked good last year but flamed out this year. 

Then what is his job if not to create the scheme to be successful, you just said it we have past their prime pass rushers....then you need to be able to scheme pressure. Pees is not good with designing pressure packages( they fool no one) he keeps it simple because that's him staying in his lane and knowing his strengths/weaknesses. The only thing is the ravens thrive with a pressure based defense...organized chaos....the TALENT MAKES PEES LOOK DECENT NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND....you have fast Lbs like Mosley and Orr yet they rarely use them to attack....one player goes down( last year it was suggs) and the defense looks like trash....how many more blown leads before we realize it's his m.o. There's a reason the pats and belicheck fired this guy and some fans still back this guy. I just hope we can get another pagano or rex in here and watch that swagger come back

[Gtown Purple]

Our defense played scared most of the second half.

[Deflated Football]

35 minutes ago, reed20 said:

He needs to come back home

I second this. Doom, Z. Smith and McClellan need to pack their bags. We need a lot more speed rushing the passer and do some exotic schemes unlike Pees "does". 

[PurpleCity5]

Pees is on the hot seat IMO if Harbaugh is. I don't see the team keeping Pees and letting go of Harbaugh. The theme of blowing 4th QTR leads is getting ridiculous. Defense still can't close and I don't know how much longer Biscotti can tolerate that for. 

[nextgen_RavensFan]

I think we have the right players. All show they can get after the QB and apply pressure. I think you hit it on the head about questioning the scheme. All of our defensive guys play like Ravens. Some may be just too small to be physical (Weddle} but our guys have the right stuff to get the job done. Some may even be inexperienced but after this year hopefully most of the growing pains will be gone. 

[JoeyFlex5]

I'm not the biggest pees supporter but I always have and always will say he is brilliant with the front seven. It wasn't the scheme, suggs played heavy and lethargic and doom played weak and always got nudged past the pocket. He called pressure often on the last drive and it wasn't getting home and then our dbs weren't covering. 

We had a tendency this year like always, to change the game plan at the end. But that wasn't the case Sunday night. Ben just had one of his trademark drives and our guys weren't in position.

[ALPHA]

10 hours ago, GrimCoconut said:

Pees shouldn't have to scheme pressure but he has to do it when you have two old pass rushers with injuries and coming off injuries as young guys fail to develop except Judon--hopefully he continues to improve because Smith looked good last year but flamed out this year. 

Z Smith isn't what this board thought he was, his sacks last season were coverage sacks. He has some size but he's not the leverage monster that McPhee is, not even close. 

[ravefan52]

Not a Pees fan, but you should never have to rely on blitzing to get pressure. We need a 4 man rush that can get to the QB. Jernigan and Pierce are nice pieces inside but the edge is pretty bad.

[ravefan52]

7 minutes ago, ALPHA said:

Z Smith isn't what this board thought he was, his sacks last season were coverage sacks. He has some size but he's not the leverage monster that McPhee is, not even close. 

This, none of his sacks last year were impressive. He's nothing more than an okay edge setter against the run, but that's more than I can say about Correa.

[ALPHA]

33 minutes ago, ravefan52 said:

This, none of his sacks last year were impressive. He's nothing more than an okay edge setter against the run, but that's more than I can say about Correa.

To be fair he's carried a nagging ankle injury through the season but theres still nothing to suggest he can be a disruptive rusher. 

[RaineV1]

Even thought I'm not a fan of Pees, I won't try to pin the lack of pressure on him. Jernigan is up and down, and our edge guys just could not consistently win one on one battles.

[ALPHA]

46 minutes ago, RaineV1 said:

Even thought I'm not a fan of Pees, I won't try to pin the lack of pressure on him. Jernigan is up and down, and our edge guys just could not consistently win one on one battles.

I like Jernigan but his consistency is affected by injuries, he's always banged up and thats not something that will improve with age.

[rmw10]

6 hours ago, ALPHA said:

Z Smith isn't what this board thought he was, his sacks last season were coverage sacks. He has some size but he's not the leverage monster that McPhee is, not even close. 

 

6 hours ago, ravefan52 said:

This, none of his sacks last year were impressive. He's nothing more than an okay edge setter against the run, but that's more than I can say about Correa.

It's weird though because even though most of his sacks were because of coverage, he still seemed to be turning it on late last year and becoming at least a decent pass rushing option for us.  He regressed this year and just never improved after that regression.  Za'Darius is probably the most disappointing player of 2016.  I don't think anyone expected a double digit sack guy, but maybe a rotational guy that could get 5 or 6 a season and at least be decent.  Instead, we all saw a bunch of nothing that inspires no hope for his future.

[VermontRaven]

16 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Pees is on the hot seat IMO if Harbaugh is. I don't see the team keeping Pees and letting go of Harbaugh. The theme of blowing 4th QTR leads is getting ridiculous. Defense still can't close and I don't know how much longer Biscotti can tolerate that for. 

If Harbaugh is fired, no coach is safe because a new coach probably would want to bring in his guys.

I personally think (with zero inside knowledge) Harbaugh and Pees are safe for one more year. This defense was pretty darn good this year when healthy. Find another corner and pass rusher and I think this D could be scary good.

 

[Static]

7 hours ago, ALPHA said:

Z Smith isn't what this board thought he was, his sacks last season were coverage sacks. He has some size but he's not the leverage monster that McPhee is, not even close. 

 

Nice try but there was no coverage at all last year