[News] Late For Work 12/26: Eight Takeaways From Ravens-Steelers Christmas Classic

[gr2522]

The day has arrived. Now Steve must make the decision on which way to steer his team. Should Harbaugh stay and continue leading the charge, or should he be fired and maybe someone like Josh McDaniels be given an opportunity to turn this team around. Should the Marty and Pees also be fired? The Ravens need to shore up the pass rush with youthful players who can pressure opposing QBs. The Ravens also need a stud cornerback who can stay healthy. Heck, even a playmaking wide receiver. However, who should lead the team??????

[ravenmaniac112351]

I think it is time for a change. Being 31-32 since winning it all doesn't cut it. I don't trust John to go out a find a good O.C. because he hasn't done so (except for Kubiack) since he has been here. John has a history of picking coordinators who are old and are not a threat to his job ( Cam Cameron, Caldwell, Trestman, Old Man Mattis and Pees). If I am SB the first person I call for an interview is the person Harbaugh should have hired as his Offensive Coordinator instead of Trestman, that being Kyle Shanahan. He would not only be my Head Coach but also my OC. Maybe he can straighten out Joe so that he becomes a much more consistent performer.

[davy_861]

My only takeaway is that parting ways with Cory graham was a huge mistake. We can talk about coaching or officiating all day - that's what losers do. When you can't execute it's as simple as that. We can't run a two minute offense and we can't defend against one - I place that blame on the players. Get it done or go home. Competitors place blame on themselves.

[TheConquerorWorm]

My only takeaway is that parting ways with Cory graham was a huge mistake. We can talk about coaching or officiating all day - that's what losers do. When you can't execute it's as simple as that. We can't run a two minute offense and we can't defend against one - I place that blame on the players. Get it done or go home. Competitors place blame on themselves.

Cory Graham was moved to safety and then benched.

[leziRav]

30 minutes ago, gr2522 said:

The day has arrived. Now Steve must make the decision on which way to steer his team. Should Harbaugh stay and continue leading the charge, or should he be fired and maybe someone like Josh McDaniels be given an opportunity to turn this team around. Should the Marty and Pees also be fired? The Ravens need to shore up the pass rush with youthful players who can pressure opposing QBs. The Ravens also need a stud cornerback who can stay healthy. Heck, even a playmaking wide receiver. However, who should lead the team??????

Why do you want Harbaugh to be fired for Josh Mcdaniels? Do you think he is better than Harbaugh? Have you seen in time the Broncos when he was HC there? Come on people, really fired Harbaugh, one of the best coaches in the league, the guy had only one losing season and that was because of injuries. You don t just fire just a coach because he did not make playoff. The issue with this team is not Harbaugh, we just don't have play makers on both sides of the ball, we are getting there, the blueprint is there. We just need some DBs, pass rushers, upgrade the O-line and get a better OC. We have a great organization and cannot throw it away by hiring the HC or Ozzie. 

[TheConquerorWorm]

The day has arrived. Now Steve must make the decision on which way to steer his team. Should Harbaugh stay and continue leading the charge, or should he be fired and maybe someone like Josh McDaniels be given an opportunity to turn this team around. Should the Marty and Pees also be fired? The Ravens need to shore up the pass rush with youthful players who can pressure opposing QBs. The Ravens also need a stud cornerback who can stay healthy. Heck, even a playmaking wide receiver. However, who should lead the team??????

Josh McDaniels traded his 1st Round pick to draft Tim Tebow, traded FOR QB Brady Quinn (giving away Peyton Hillis), and basically destroyed the Broncos franchise.

This is the guy you want as HC?

[leziRav]

To RavenNation I just say RELAX. We have a great organization, Ozzie is the best, Harbaugh is great HC. We are close to be a dominant team. I hope we lose the game against the Bengals so our draft position could be as high as 14pick. I hope we use some of our TEs in a trade to move up even higher in the draft and get our next Suggs. What you think? We should the season behind us and look forward to the free agency and draft.

[davy_861]

  50 minutes ago, davy_861 said:

My only takeaway is that parting ways with Cory graham was a huge mistake. We can talk about coaching or officiating all day - that's what losers do. When you can't execute it's as simple as that. We can't run a two minute offense and we can't defend against one - I place that blame on the players. Get it done or go home. Competitors place blame on themselves.

Cory Graham was moved to safety and then benched.

Still better than wright or elam

[davy_861]

  37 minutes ago, TheConquerorWorm said:

  50 minutes ago, davy_861 said:

My only takeaway is that parting ways with Cory graham was a huge mistake. We can talk about coaching or officiating all day - that's what losers do. When you can't execute it's as simple as that. We can't run a two minute offense and we can't defend against one - I place that blame on the players. Get it done or go home. Competitors place blame on themselves.

Cory Graham was moved to safety and then benched.

Still better than wright or elam

Oh did I mention he can tackle

[b93333]

51 minutes ago, leziRav said:

To RavenNation I just say RELAX. We have a great organization, Ozzie is the best, Harbaugh is great HC. We are close to be a dominant team. I hope we lose the game against the Bengals so our draft position could be as high as 14pick. I hope we use some of our TEs in a trade to move up even higher in the draft and get our next Suggs. What you think? We should the season behind us and look forward to the free agency and draft.

You are either living in the distant past or drinking way too much purple cool aid.

[Bohica5]

To RavenNation I just say RELAX. We have a great organization, Ozzie is the best, Harbaugh is great HC. We are close to be a dominant team. I hope we lose the game against the Bengals so our draft position could be as high as 14pick. I hope we use some of our TEs in a trade to move up even higher in the draft and get our next Suggs. What you think? We should the season behind us and look forward to the free agency and draft.

8-8 forever wit harby...........so Ridiculous!!!!!

[Bohica5]

  1 hour ago, gr2522 said:

The day has arrived. Now Steve must make the decision on which way to steer his team. Should Harbaugh stay and continue leading the charge, or should he be fired and maybe someone like Josh McDaniels be given an opportunity to turn this team around. Should the Marty and Pees also be fired? The Ravens need to shore up the pass rush with youthful players who can pressure opposing QBs. The Ravens also need a stud cornerback who can stay healthy. Heck, even a playmaking wide receiver. However, who should lead the team??????

Josh McDaniels traded his 1st Round pick to draft Tim Tebow, traded FOR QB Brady Quinn (giving away Peyton Hillis), and basically destroyed the Broncos franchise.

This is the guy you want as HC?

Anyone but harby please time for a change is Now.....

[Bohica5]

I think it is time for a change. Being 31-32 since winning it all doesn't cut it. I don't trust John to go out a find a good O.C. because he hasn't done so (except for Kubiack) since he has been here. John has a history of picking coordinators who are old and are not a threat to his job ( Cam Cameron, Caldwell, Trestman, Old Man Mattis and Pees). If I am SB the first person I call for an interview is the person Harbaugh should have hired as his Offensive Coordinator instead of Trestman, that being Kyle Shanahan. He would not only be my Head Coach but also my OC. Maybe he can straighten out Joe so that he becomes a much more consistent performer.

So Smart!!!!!!!!! Coach and all his philly friends gotta go!!!!!!!!

[Bohica5]

  2 hours ago, Black&purple#55 said:

Dean pees must let go man, i cant stand this "PLAYING SCARED" defence

Pees blitzed almost every play in the final drive. How could you even watch that game and blame the coaches? The players on defense choked, period. Where were Suggs, Doom, Judon, Jernigan on that final drive?

hate to say it but its age..............suggs and doom just get tired at the end of the game and run out of gas and our head coach is too chicken to make a decision that counts........

[Bohica5]

Would love to see Steve B. replace Harbs with Josh McDaniels.  Maybe then we'd have an offense and beat the Pats.

I agree an offensive mind is totally wut we need now.....keep pees....upgrade with an offense........no more 8-8 or 5-11.....harbs HAS to go

[Bohica5]

The Raven's biggest off-season need is for Mr. B to take a hard look at this organization... especially the FO.

Thank You!! Harbys gotta go!

[leziRav]

You guys act like you know how to run an organization, we don t make the playoffs let fire everyone and we start from zero, right? Give me the name of a HC who has a better record than Harbs and that the ravens can get. How many 8-8 and losing seasons Jason Garet had before he took the Cowboys to this level. How many losing season has Sean Payton had since he won the Superbowl. How many playoffs wins and SB has Andy Reid. How many playoffs appeareance has Bruce Arians. Those are among the best coaches in the league. Now compare them to Harbs record. Look at the 49ers, great team with Jim Harbs but what happened to them when he was fired. Firing harbs is not going to solve our problem. We need a better OC maybe DC. Then we have to fill the holes in the defense. You just don't fire your HC and the FO because they did not make playoff. This FO gave us 2 SBs and a lot of playoffs wins in 20 years while some teams were in the league for ever and don t have a SB. Chill people we have a great organization and we will be fine going forward.

[omar586]

i dont think a change of HC will happen in b-more, but we need some coordinators for sure, although Harb deserved to be fired for getting away from the running game for most of the season. our running game is the backbone of the ravens. and the lack of running game cost us games this season, and ended our season early.

[davy_861]

  1 hour ago, TheConquerorWorm said:

  1 hour ago, davy_861 said:

My only takeaway is that parting ways with Cory graham was a huge mistake. We can talk about coaching or officiating all day - that's what losers do. When you can't execute it's as simple as that. We can't run a two minute offense and we can't defend against one - I place that blame on the players. Get it done or go home. Competitors place blame on themselves.

Cory Graham was moved to safety and then benched.

Still better than wright or elam

Would someone be so kind as to schooling me on what position Ed reed played his entire career. All I was getting at was graham was instrumental during that SB run. I don't have enough time to watch him in Buffalo but just because someone moves to safety doesn't mean that they can't play corner. He has been on the field more than jimmy smith during the same period of time and me personally, I would have much rather seen graham on the field instead of jimmy high school buddy

[BKeyser]

  4 hours ago, Black&purple#55 said:

Dean pees must let go man, i cant stand this "PLAYING SCARED" defence

Pees blitzed almost every play in the final drive. How could you even watch that game and blame the coaches? The players on defense choked, period. Where were Suggs, Doom, Judon, Jernigan on that final drive?

No, he didn't blitz almost every play. This has been going on for so long, when these situations come up I say out loud on every play how many guys are in the rush. Once or twice I said "5". And sending a safety at Big Ben isn't going to do anything but leave another LB in space.

[BKeyser]

Personally, I like Harbaugh. I think he's a player's coach. And if he sets the right tone for the team going forward, we may not need wholesale coaching changes. Clearly these guys aren't dummies, but they seem to lack confidence in... something. Maybe it's the players. Maybe Dean Pees plays prevent because he doesn't trust his corners in one-on-one.

Then again, he plays one-on-one for most of the first 28 minutes of each half, so I don't think that's it.

Said it in the forums last week: Why not 6-2-3? Six down linemen, 340lbs, 300lbs and 270lbs from the middle out, two 250lb linebackers and three 200lb defensive backs. If you rush six, they've got to keep seven on the line on offense. With the QB, that leaves only 3 in the pattern and 5 LB's/DB's in coverage. With six rushing, QB's have to get rid of it fast, so no more 40 yard go patterns. And running backs become obsolete - probably replaced by blocking TE's. If you're defensive-minded, this would seem to cut the scoring down and wreck havoc on QBR's. Pressure means turnovers. You just need a good-tackling back five.

And I'd rather get get beat on the occasional missed tackle than giving pro quarterbacks 8 seconds and 5 options against a zone D.

I could also stand 2-14 every year if we beat the Steelers twice, so, you know.

[slowboater]

You guys act like you know how to run an organization, we don t make the playoffs let fire everyone and we start from zero, right? Give me the name of a HC who has a better record than Harbs and that the ravens can get. How many 8-8 and losing seasons Jason Garet had before he took the Cowboys to this level. How many losing season has Sean Payton had since he won the Superbowl. How many playoffs wins and SB has Andy Reid. How many playoffs appeareance has Bruce Arians. Those are among the best coaches in the league. Now compare them to Harbs record. Look at the 49ers, great team with Jim Harbs but what happened to them when he was fired. Firing harbs is not going to solve our problem. We need a better OC maybe DC. Then we have to fill the holes in the defense. You just don't fire your HC and the FO because they did not make playoff. This FO gave us 2 SBs and a lot of playoffs wins in 20 years while some teams were in the league for ever and don t have a SB. Chill people we have a great organization and we will be fine going forward.

Couldn't disagree more. When you are satisfied with 8 and 8 and are comparing yourself to all the other losers, then you have already lost. What has made this organization one of the best is they never quit trying to improve and only have one goal and that is to make a run in the post-season. And if you think this organization will be fine by standing pat, you are mistaken. Whomever was responsible for letting Trestman go because he passed too much and then let Mornhinweg pass the ball even more will pay the price. Their is a lot of accountability to be had moving forward.

[DaRupp]

  5 hours ago, leziRav said:

You guys act like you know how to run an organization, we don t make the playoffs let fire everyone and we start from zero, right? Give me the name of a HC who has a better record than Harbs and that the ravens can get. How many 8-8 and losing seasons Jason Garet had before he took the Cowboys to this level. How many losing season has Sean Payton had since he won the Superbowl. How many playoffs wins and SB has Andy Reid. How many playoffs appeareance has Bruce Arians. Those are among the best coaches in the league. Now compare them to Harbs record. Look at the 49ers, great team with Jim Harbs but what happened to them when he was fired. Firing harbs is not going to solve our problem. We need a better OC maybe DC. Then we have to fill the holes in the defense. You just don't fire your HC and the FO because they did not make playoff. This FO gave us 2 SBs and a lot of playoffs wins in 20 years while some teams were in the league for ever and don t have a SB. Chill people we have a great organization and we will be fine going forward.

Couldn't disagree more. When you are satisfied with 8 and 8 and are comparing yourself to all the other losers, then you have already lost. What has made this organization one of the best is they never quit trying to improve and only have one goal and that is to make a run in the post-season. And if you think this organization will be fine by standing pat, you are mistaken. Whomever was responsible for letting Trestman go because he passed too much and then let Mornhinweg pass the ball even more will pay the price. Their is a lot of accountability to be had moving forward.

Ok so let's play a game. Harbs is accountable for bringing in the poor staff which led to bad decisions with either personnel training or play calling. So do you fire the coordinators and Harbs? Here's where it gets interesting. Now you fire Harbs. Who are you going to replace him with? If the replacement isn't as good, do yo hold Ozzie accountable for firing Harbs? Does that mean Ozzie gets fired? So now you're replacing a HOF GM. So Steve brings in someone else. If that GM isn't as good (which they likely won't be), is Steve B now held accountable? Should he fire himself?

Everyone calls for peoples' heads when we don't make the playoffs. We've gotten used to winning around here, and I have no intention of becoming complacent about it. But firing Harbaugh is an emotional decision, not a logical one.

What this team needs are new coordinators that can bring in their own position staff. Pees has done some good things, but his lack of aggression is awful. Now, maybe Rex was able to be aggressive with the defense because he had Suggs in his prime, Ngata, Ray Lewis, Reed, etc. He could be aggressive because there were players who could make execute and hold their own. Harbaugh is a very good strategic coach and understands the game. I like 95% of his gameplan calls. I would rather have a coach that goes for it on 4th down when he should than a coach that punts when he shouldn't.

Regarding positions, the right side of the O-line and defense line need replacement. Yes even Brandon Williams and Timmy Jernigan. A solid pass rush makes up for almost all defensive deficiencies. The secondary is actually in great shape, and the linebacking core is very solid. Offense is in good shape besides maybe an additional WR to help with depth. If Flacco has time, he's amazing. If he doesn't, he sucks. So get an offensive line that gives him time.

[Purple Punishment]

9 hours ago, Ravensfansince03 said:

This defens has the same problem as last year.

Not enough violent angry defenders. Defenders that strike fear in opposing QB's

That's because our organization praises high character players now without questionable backgrounds. We need game changers, not ice cream men

[Bohica5]

  1 hour ago, slowboater said:

  6 hours ago, leziRav said:

You guys act like you know how to run an organization, we don t make the playoffs let fire everyone and we start from zero, right? Give me the name of a HC who has a better record than Harbs and that the ravens can get. How many 8-8 and losing seasons Jason Garet had before he took the Cowboys to this level. How many losing season has Sean Payton had since he won the Superbowl. How many playoffs wins and SB has Andy Reid. How many playoffs appeareance has Bruce Arians. Those are among the best coaches in the league. Now compare them to Harbs record. Look at the 49ers, great team with Jim Harbs but what happened to them when he was fired. Firing harbs is not going to solve our problem. We need a better OC maybe DC. Then we have to fill the holes in the defense. You just don't fire your HC and the FO because they did not make playoff. This FO gave us 2 SBs and a lot of playoffs wins in 20 years while some teams were in the league for ever and don t have a SB. Chill people we have a great organization and we will be fine going forward.

Couldn't disagree more. When you are satisfied with 8 and 8 and are comparing yourself to all the other losers, then you have already lost. What has made this organization one of the best is they never quit trying to improve and only have one goal and that is to make a run in the post-season. And if you think this organization will be fine by standing pat, you are mistaken. Whomever was responsible for letting Trestman go because he passed too much and then let Mornhinweg pass the ball even more will pay the price. Their is a lot of accountability to be had moving forward.

Ok so let's play a game. Harbs is accountable for bringing in the poor staff which led to bad decisions with either personnel training or play calling. So do you fire the coordinators and Harbs? Here's where it gets interesting. Now you fire Harbs. Who are you going to replace him with? If the replacement isn't as good, do yo hold Ozzie accountable for firing Harbs? Does that mean Ozzie gets fired? So now you're replacing a HOF GM. So Steve brings in someone else. If that GM isn't as good (which they likely won't be), is Steve B now held accountable? Should he fire himself?

Everyone calls for peoples' heads when we don't make the playoffs. We've gotten used to winning around here, and I have no intention of becoming complacent about it. But firing Harbaugh is an emotional decision, not a logical one.

What this team needs are new coordinators that can bring in their own position staff. Pees has done some good things, but his lack of aggression is awful. Now, maybe Rex was able to be aggressive with the defense because he had Suggs in his prime, Ngata, Ray Lewis, Reed, etc. He could be aggressive because there were players who could make execute and hold their own. Harbaugh is a very good strategic coach and understands the game. I like 95% of his gameplan calls. I would rather have a coach that goes for it on 4th down when he should than a coach that punts when he shouldn't.

Regarding positions, the right side of the O-line and defense line need replacement. Yes even Brandon Williams and Timmy Jernigan. A solid pass rush makes up for almost all defensive deficiencies. The secondary is actually in great shape, and the linebacking core is very solid. Offense is in good shape besides maybe an additional WR to help with depth. If Flacco has time, he's amazing. If he doesn't, he sucks. So get an offensive line that gives him time.

Harbs has had plenty of "time"..........No More Time!!!!!! he is done!

[Purple Punishment]

6 minutes ago, Bohica5 said:

Harbs has had plenty of "time"..........No More Time!!!!!! he is done!

Ozzie had plenty of time to draft quality players, what did he give us? Matt Elam, Art Brown, Kamalei Correa. Should he be done, giving Harbaugh a bunch of weak players and saying make chicken salad out of...

 

Harbaugh doesn't build the team, he makes cuts and employs a coaching staff, and tries to put the best product on the field. He gives us the best of what Ozzie gave him 

Edited December 27, 2016 by MTRavensFan
Profanity removed

[kbman]

I should have known better than to wade into the cesspool of comments here. Lot's of <removed>with opinions.

[TheConquerorWorm]

Personally, I like Harbaugh. I think he's a player's coach. And if he sets the right tone for the team going forward, we may not need wholesale coaching changes. Clearly these guys aren't dummies, but they seem to lack confidence in... something. Maybe it's the players. Maybe Dean Pees plays prevent because he doesn't trust his corners in one-on-one.

Then again, he plays one-on-one for most of the first 28 minutes of each half, so I don't think that's it.

Said it in the forums last week: Why not 6-2-3? Six down linemen, 340lbs, 300lbs and 270lbs from the middle out, two 250lb linebackers and three 200lb defensive backs. If you rush six, they've got to keep seven on the line on offense. With the QB, that leaves only 3 in the pattern and 5 LB's/DB's in coverage. With six rushing, QB's have to get rid of it fast, so no more 40 yard go patterns. And running backs become obsolete - probably replaced by blocking TE's. If you're defensive-minded, this would seem to cut the scoring down and wreck havoc on QBR's. Pressure means turnovers. You just need a good-tackling back five.

And I'd rather get get beat on the occasional missed tackle than giving pro quarterbacks 8 seconds and 5 options against a zone D.

I could also stand 2-14 every year if we beat the Steelers twice, so, you know.

6-2-3 would never work. All I do is bring in a RB to block, line up 4 speed WRs. You going to cover 4 speed Wrs with 3 x 200lb DB and 2 LBs with no safety help? Who's covering the RB out of the backfield? A LB? So now I have 5 guys with 1-on-1 coverage with no safety help. That's pitch and catch all day. Ravens rush 6 all the time (3 DL x 2 OLB x ILB/S/CB Blitz) and it doesn't make running backs obsolete or keep big plays from happening.

And if I pull my guard on a run play with a FB, I take 3 of your D-Lineman (backside) out of the play. That gives me 4 lineman & a FB vs 3 lineman & 2 LBs with no safety help.

[Ravens nation 20]

14 hours ago, gr2522 said:

The day has arrived. Now Steve must make the decision on which way to steer his team. Should Harbaugh stay and continue leading the charge, or should he be fired and maybe someone like Josh McDaniels be given an opportunity to turn this team around. Should the Marty and Pees also be fired? The Ravens need to shore up the pass rush with youthful players who can pressure opposing QBs. The Ravens also need a stud cornerback who can stay healthy. Heck, even a playmaking wide receiver. However, who should lead the team??????

You can not possibly think Josh Mcdaniels is a better coach then John Harbaugh. I think Mcdaniels might be the worse coach of all time. He completely ruined a promising Broncos team in like 2 months. John Harbaugh is a 100x better coach then him.

 

Edited December 27, 2016 by Ravens nation 20
Had to fix grammar error

[Ravens nation 20]

12 hours ago, Bohica5 said:

I agree an offensive mind is totally wut we need now.....keep pees....upgrade with an offense........no more 8-8 or 5-11.....harbs HAS to go

Mcdaniels is possibly the worse head coach ever. He completely ruined a promising young talented broncos team in less then 2 months. Harbaugh is way better leader and knows how to inspire players something Mcdaniels struggled with. Anyway Go Ravens. We will for sure be back. #RavensFlock