State of the Ravens going into 2017

[rmcjacket23]

4 hours ago, Ravenfan545 said:

It all starts with a new coaching staff, too much talent on this team to be happy with our record

Yeah I don't think anybody really thinks this. We simply don't stack up in the talent department compared to many of the better teams in this league, especially on the offensive side of the ball.

[rmcjacket23]

2 hours ago, ravensnj said:

I wouldn't cut Doom, he still has plenty left in the tank. He just missed a crucial strip sack of big ben in the fourth quarter. If you review the footage you will see the play. Saying that, I would cut Smith and Correa to get a premier pass rusher. Otherwise, next year, I would start Judon and Doom and bring Sizzle off the bench.

Dumervil won't be back at his current salary. Pretty much no scenario where you get $6M of value out of him at this point, especially as a situational pass rusher.

ZaDarius is a 4th round pick from two years ago who was inactive often. He's certainly not going to be guaranteed a roster spot, nor do I think retaining somebody like McClellan is a necessity either.

You're basically looking at Judon, Suggs and Correa as the only roster locks, with question marks from all of them.

[rmcjacket23]

1 hour ago, Sunday QB said:

I am looking forward to Ben Watson, Waller, Williams and Boyle on the field next year. I won't be upset to let Pitta and Gilmore go.

I see no scenario where Watson is on this team next year. I also see no point in letting Gillmore go, since he's extremely cheap and probably the best run blocking TE on our roster.

[RavensDieHard21]

QB: Flacco is all we need 

RB: West and Dixon with an improved line make a nice 1-2 punch. 

WR: Need a big receiver that has great hands if anything. Wallace, Perriman are out only decent weapons left. 

Oline; we need an anchor at Center. Zuttah isn't horrific but he has 0 push at the line to move defenders. Resign Wagner as priority #1. Rest of the line will fall into place when Lewis gets more experience. 

 

[ravensnj]

12 minutes ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

Because Ozzie has one position he has 0 luck with drafting and that is WR. 

Because he was a Te and is a Wr hater.

[ravensnj]

1 minute ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

QB: Flacco is all we need 

RB: West and Dixon with an improved line make a nice 1-2 punch. 

WR: Need a big receiver that has great hands if anything. Wallace, Perriman are out only decent weapons left. 

Oline; we need an anchor at Center. Zuttah isn't horrific but he has 0 push at the line to move defenders. Resign Wagner as priority #1. Rest of the line will fall into place when Lewis gets more experience. 

 

I agree, but, we need a slot wr too.

[rmcjacket23]

7 minutes ago, ravensnj said:

Watson had one really good year with Brees and he's old! Cut him we, as we have to many younger Te's.  Now, with Boyle playing as our blocking Te, Pitta has time to roam. He had like 75 catches, that's better than most number one wr's and would have had more if Boyle or Max played more this season. Who's going to make up for that loss? That's going backwards in my mind.

1. Watson had a lot more than just one good season. He had a 68/763 line with the Browns back in 2010, which was basically better than anything Pitta put up in his career until this season. Pitta's career numbers are much weaker than what Watson has put up, and I don't even think most people consider Watson a pass-catching TE. Moot point of course, because Watson won't be back.

2. Pitta's catch numbers are great and all, but he's also in the 8.5 YPC territory, which is very low for any pass catcher. Pretty much anybody catching 75-80 balls a year should have at least 900-1000 yards in most cases, and he's well short of that. Its great to catch a lot of balls, but if its not moving the chains, there's not much point.

As it stands, Pitta will likely only be back if he takes a paycut again. He's due $5.5M next year, which is a lot for a TE, and definitely a lot for a TE who's putting up like 700 yards in a career season. 

Remember, the only reason he kept a roster spot this offseason is because he slashed his salary by about $4M I believe. He may not have to slash that much, but he will definitely need to take a paycut to stick around.

[RavensDieHard21]

Defensive line: resign guy at a good deal. Williams can either take what he is worth it we will see ya later. I don't think he is worth more than $7-8 million annually. 

Inside LBs: this might be our bet unit. Orr and CJ are great 

OLBs: this absolutely should be out 1st round pick and realistically I pray Ozzie gets Williams or maybe Barnett. But Tim Williams could be a major piece. Sizzle plays his last year and Doom either restructures or he just isn't worth it. 

Safety: Weddle is amazing. Webb will likely either be cut or saved one more year so we can concentrate elsewhere. We need speed and instincts here. We seemingly can only get one or another. 

CB: we need depth! Jimmy and Young are both legit corners, but the second either goes down their goes out coverage. Looking for a corner in the first two rounds. Maybe Tabor from Florida if Williams is gone, or maybe Jackson. 

[rmcjacket23]

2 minutes ago, ravensnj said:

I agree, but, we need a slot wr too.

Not necessarily. Based on the way we use our TEs, they're essentially your interior, "slot" WR. 

[usmccharles]

@rmcjacket23 What are you predicting our cap looks like?

[RavensDieHard21]

13 minutes ago, ravensnj said:

I agree, but, we need a slot wr too.

Anyone to move the chains, but look how many FGs we kicked this year. We need a big receiver with hands. Joe tried to build that rapport with Waller but his hands were inconsistent as you probably seen on that should have been TD catch😤

[RavensDieHard21]

10 minutes ago, usmccharles said:

@rmcjacket23 What are you predicting our cap looks like?

North of $20 million almost guarantees. If not far higher depending on ozzies patience with our depth players 

[Ravens419]

19 minutes ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

QB: Flacco is all we need 

RB: West and Dixon with an improved line make a nice 1-2 punch. 

WR: Need a big receiver that has great hands if anything. Wallace, Perriman are out only decent weapons left. 

Oline; we need an anchor at Center. Zuttah isn't horrific but he has 0 push at the line to move defenders. Resign Wagner as priority #1. Rest of the line will fall into place when Lewis gets more experience. 

 

100% agree with all this 

[redrum52]

On 12/25/2016 at 10:43 PM, Gruntled Ravens Fan said:

No clue. Every elite QB has at least 1 great receiver. Brady has edelman, Rodgers has Jordy, heck even Winston has Mike Evans. 

Edelman is not elite and Evans was drafted before Winston.  The Packers have great wrs but Rodgers makes their job easier and vice versa.  Our FO and coaching staff seem to be horrible at finding and developing talent.  Then add in our qb has accuracy issues and that could be part of it.   Let's not forget we dont seem to know how to use what we do have either.

 

Some teams have it, some don't.   Giants know WRs and we know LBs.  There are things Ozzie excels at and others, like receiver, he seems terrible at evaluating.

[Ravensfan23]

8 minutes ago, ravensnj said:

Watson had one really good year with Brees and he's old! Cut him we, as we have to many younger Te's.  Now, with Boyle playing as our blocking Te, Pitta has time to roam. He had like 75 catches, that's better than most number one wr's and would have had more if Boyle or Max played more this season. Who's going to make up for that loss? That's going backwards in my mind.

But what are you honestly losing? A guy who is no longer quick enough to separate down the seam and he's not quick enough in/out his routes to consistently win vs LBs? The numbers look really good and I'm not taking anything away from Pitta, what he was able to come back from was tremendous. However you just said it. You have 4 young TE (all 25 or younger) and all have at least shown flashes of being able to produce. I honestly think if given the same opportunities as Pitta was that Waller, Maxx or Gilmore would produce better numbers. Again nothing away from Pitta, it just seems like the hip injuries really took a lot out of him and much of his production was of the check down variety. 

Moving forward, the TE position needs to be used as weapons not just check down guys. Those 75 recs are misleading imo. I think those 4 young TEs if healthy can more than get the job done. 

[Ravensfan23]

24 minutes ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

Anyone to move the chains, but look how many FGs we kicked this year. We need a big receiver with hands. Joe tried to build that rapport with Waller but his hands were inconsistent as you probably seen on that should have been TD catch😤

It's not just the FGs that were kicked, it was the amount of 50+ yard fields that were kicked. That's where not establishing the run game or having a TE who can stretch the field hurt. Once you get the ball across midfield and certainly 40+ range it's time to take a shot. That run action to move the LBs and Safeties are huge in those situations. That's one of the things that bothered me all season with the Ravens, they didn't take advantage of those shot play opportunities and when they did they had success. 

 

[GrimCoconut]

I don't feel like we should invest in a free agent CB. Those guys are a gamble in free agency unless we're talking another Graham, who was more of a surprise than anything. I think we should get a veteran WR and possibly a center because we really could use an upgrade at center in a big way. WR is an obvious need and we have young guys but lose veteran savvy with Smith retiring. I can see a veteran pass rusher but what will we really get there? I'd rather spend my high draft picks on a CB and Pass Rusher than any other position since the WR class is okay only. We need an identity on offense though for sure. I don't mind high picks going to OL or WR but pass rusher and CB are both a mess and can't be ignored any more and are very strong early in this draft, which is why I like FA to solve OL and WR if possible. 

[balfan23]

To look forward to 2017, I first want to look back to 2016. That's where the foundation is. Here is what we have on offense:

QB = locked in (whether you like it or not) through 2019

RB/FB = 2 very inexpensive RB options who complement each other nicely. Dixon was a bright spot for the season and can carry over in 2017. Juice is FA ... and while he is a pro-bowler, few teams value his position, so hopefully we can keep him. 

OL = Wagner is priority #1 for our own FAs. The O line wasn't great, but Wagner was solid and we need to take steps to improve the line and can't take a step back. At a minimum, get better depth. If possible, look for an upgrade for Zuttah. 

TE = I'll not be surprised if we say "lets go young" and shed both Pitta and Watson, but wow ... do we really have faith in these youngsters? This is easily the most disappointing position group on the team. A lot invested with very little to show for it. 

WR = This position group is wafer thin. Wallace's productivity went off a cliff, so do we keep him or cut and save $5M? Perriman still looks lost out there. Moore hasn't shown us anything yet. Camp can catch a punt and run a jet sweep - when he's healthy. This is not an awe inspiring group. It needs to be addressed, but it won't be through the draft. 

 

 

[ravensnj]

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

1. Watson had a lot more than just one good season. He had a 68/763 line with the Browns back in 2010, which was basically better than anything Pitta put up in his career until this season. Pitta's career numbers are much weaker than what Watson has put up, and I don't even think most people consider Watson a pass-catching TE. Moot point of course, because Watson won't be back.

2. Pitta's catch numbers are great and all, but he's also in the 8.5 YPC territory, which is very low for any pass catcher. Pretty much anybody catching 75-80 balls a year should have at least 900-1000 yards in most cases, and he's well short of that. Its great to catch a lot of balls, but if its not moving the chains, there's not much point.

As it stands, Pitta will likely only be back if he takes a paycut again. He's due $5.5M next year, which is a lot for a TE, and definitely a lot for a TE who's putting up like 700 yards in a career season. 

Remember, the only reason he kept a roster spot this offseason is because he slashed his salary by about $4M I believe. He may not have to slash that much, but he will definitely need to take a paycut to stick around.

How about : reason #2: Max is only a blocker and is chronically hurt during his short career, #3 Boyle had a ten game suspension, #4 Gilmore is often hurt and couldn't get separation or make a catch in the clutch, in the earlier part of the season. #4 Pitta get's it, he can get open and help the quarterback, like Steve Smith, they are vets and know the game. #5 Waller wasn't ready.

 

Edited December 27, 2016 by ravensnj

[ravensnj]

19 minutes ago, balfan23 said:

To look forward to 2017, I first want to look back to 2016. That's where the foundation is. Here is what we have on offense:

QB = locked in (whether you like it or not) through 2019

RB/FB = 2 very inexpensive RB options who complement each other nicely. Dixon was a bright spot for the season and can carry over in 2017. Juice is FA ... and while he is a pro-bowler, few teams value his position, so hopefully we can keep him. 

OL = Wagner is priority #1 for our own FAs. The O line wasn't great, but Wagner was solid and we need to take steps to improve the line and can't take a step back. At a minimum, get better depth. If possible, look for an upgrade for Zuttah. 

TE = I'll not be surprised if we say "lets go young" and shed both Pitta and Watson, but wow ... do we really have faith in these youngsters? This is easily the most disappointing position group on the team. A lot invested with very little to show for it. 

WR = This position group is wafer thin. Wallace's productivity went off a cliff, so do we keep him or cut and save $5M? Perriman still looks lost out there. Moore hasn't shown us anything yet. Camp can catch a punt and run a jet sweep - when he's healthy. This is not an awe inspiring group. It needs to be addressed, but it won't be through the draft. 

 

 

Watson will be coming off a terrible injury at the ripe age of 37, he's gone. We need to hire a wide receiver consultant and tell our scouts to concentrate on other things like next year's pollyanna gift. Otherwise, you are spot on with your assessment!

 

Edited December 27, 2016 by ravensnj

[ravensnj]

1 hour ago, redrum52 said:

Edelman is not elite and Evans was drafted before Winston.  The Packers have great wrs but Rodgers makes their job easier and vice versa.  Our FO and coaching staff seem to be horrible at finding and developing talent.  Then add in our qb has accuracy issues and that could be part of it.   Let's not forget we dont seem to know how to use what we do have either.

 

Some teams have it, some don't.   Giants know WRs and we know LBs.  There are things Ozzie excels at and others, like receiver, he seems terrible at evaluating.

I think we are losing touch with LB's too

[balfan23]

Here is what we have on Defense:

DL = This may have been the most solid position group on the team, despite the fact that they didn't finish the season well. Jernigan was one of the bright spots on the season and hopefully can continue to improve. We're going to need to find a way to fill the gap that will be left by Williams, because I'll be shocked if he doesn't pull down a salary that is more than we'll be willing to pay.

OLB = Greatest need on the team and must be addressed in the draft, hopefully with a first rounder. However, this time we need to pick a player that will actually contribute. Correa is 2016's biggest disappointment. I know, he was only a rookie, but you need to at least be a rotational player that starts showing promise when you are picked as high as he was. Even if he surprises us all and explodes on the scene, this is still a top priority need. 

ILB = Thank goodness Orr, who I think is the 2nd brightest spot on this team only behind Young, is RFA. Give him his 2nd round tender and then try to get a longer term contract. Mosley is locked in for one more year. 

S = Weddle is locked in. Webb definitely improved, but it is an open question as to whether he's worth the $5.5M we'd get back if we let him go. 

CB = Thank God for Young. Jimmy is really good, but we all know what the problem is there. I still think we need to invest in youth at this position, but we need to find better depth here. 

[playlikeawhat]

1 hour ago, balfan23 said:

Here is what we have on Defense:

DL = This may have been the most solid position group on the team, despite the fact that they didn't finish the season well. Jernigan was one of the bright spots on the season and hopefully can continue to improve. We're going to need to find a way to fill the gap that will be left by Williams, because I'll be shocked if he doesn't pull down a salary that is more than we'll be willing to pay.

OLB = Greatest need on the team and must be addressed in the draft, hopefully with a first rounder. However, this time we need to pick a player that will actually contribute. Correa is 2016's biggest disappointment. I know, he was only a rookie, but you need to at least be a rotational player that starts showing promise when you are picked as high as he was. Even if he surprises us all and explodes on the scene, this is still a top priority need. 

ILB = Thank goodness Orr, who I think is the 2nd brightest spot on this team only behind Young, is RFA. Give him his 2nd round tender and then try to get a longer term contract. Mosley is locked in for one more year. 

S = Weddle is locked in. Webb definitely improved, but it is an open question as to whether he's worth the $5.5M we'd get back if we let him go. 

CB = Thank God for Young. Jimmy is really good, but we all know what the problem is there. I still think we need to invest in youth at this position, but we need to find better depth here. 

Agreed.  I think Young is going to be a stud by 2018.  I have high hopes for Judon too.  Wouldn't be mad if Ozzie dipped into the CB pool early this upcoming draft.

[Cillmatic]

I wouldn't count on Judon too much. He vanished. I'm hoping he can succeed though, we'll need someone who can take over for Elvis when he and McClennon are cut. Best case scenario we draft Suggs' replacement and he and Judon can become beasts after Suggs retires.

[JoeyFlex5]

6 minutes ago, playlikeawhat said:

Agreed.  I think Young is going to be a stud by 2018.  I have high hopes for Judon too.  Wouldn't be mad if Ozzie dipped into the CB pool early this upcoming draft.

Barring a meteoric rise we are in a great range for Sidney Jones aka the best corner prospect since pat pete

[allblackraven]

12 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Barring a meteoric rise we are in a great range for Sidney Jones aka the best corner prospect since pat pete

Doesn't take much - just one team needs to like a player. Eli Apple rings a bell.

[playlikeawhat]

21 minutes ago, JoeyFlex5 said:

Barring a meteoric rise we are in a great range for Sidney Jones aka the best corner prospect since pat pete

Wow.  He looks darn near plug-n-play from what I've seen.  Adjustments to be made made of course but I don't see him needing "multiple years" before ROI.

[hn68wb4]

One thing that needs to be taken care of sooner rather than later is discipline. I can recall so many stupid penalties from both sides of the ball, and STs as well, seemed like we never had a punt without one. During the offseason Harbaugh et. al. better be hammering home discipline from the get go, we can't be as penalized next year as we were this year. I can't even tell you how many time we talked about drive killing penalties all year long, I can remember having the conversation following the Bills game for god's sake.

Seems like it wasn't too long ago that Harbaugh teams were hailed for their discipline.

Edited December 28, 2016 by hn68wb4

[Ravensfan23]

52 minutes ago, hn68wb4 said:

One thing that needs to be taken care of sooner rather than later is discipline. I can recall so many stupid penalties from both sides of the ball, and STs as well, seemed like we never had a punt without one. During the offseason Harbaugh et. al. better be hammering home discipline from the get go, we can't be as penalized next year as we were this year. I can't even tell you how many time we talked about drive killing penalties all year long, I can remember having the conversation following the Bills game for god's sake.

Seems like it wasn't too long ago that Harbaugh teams were hailed for their discipline.

My first thought with the discipline thing is, when you have such a young team discipline may be an issue. However It seems guys like Zuttah, Ducasse and other vets were just as guilty. 

[ravens rule]

Idc bout yall I'm paying RIck Wagner. He's very solid player and the musical chairs crap has to stop. Pay your guys Oz !