State of the Ravens going into 2017

[Deflated Football]

Won't we have a pretty solid cap situation this offseason, even before we make some cuts? I swear I saw somewhere that we will have some money to spend on one or two big name players. I'm probably wrong though. We're always tight. 

[Ravens419]

6 minutes ago, Deflated Football said:

I'd go one step further and say Stephon Gilmore and Alshon

I'll go a step further and say trumaine Johnson 😎

[Ravens419]

3 minutes ago, Deflated Football said:

Won't we have a pretty solid cap situation this offseason, even before we make some cuts? I swear I saw somewhere that we will have some money to spend on one or two big name players. I'm probably wrong though. We're always tight. 

28th in the league with about 21mill before cuts 

[ALPHA]

19 minutes ago, Deflated Football said:

I don't think he gets that much, at least not yet. Wouldn't be surprised if he signs a one year prove it deal to be honest 

This board always undervalues FA market value, we're like Lakers fans thinking we can sign everyone for peanuts.

[hn68wb4]

1 hour ago, Deflated Football said:

I don't think he gets that much, at least not yet. Wouldn't be surprised if he signs a one year prove it deal to be honest 

Sanu and Benjamin signed huge deals based on less, wouldn't be surprised if Jeffrey still signs an absurd deal regardless of his red flags. WRs are just a position where the value is always underestimated.

[playlikeawhat]

 

On 12/25/2016 at 10:41 PM, ravens rule said:

Going into flacco's 10th season why is WR still a huge question mark ? 

 

I'm just as puzzled by the F.O.'s failure to draft a killer at this point of Joe's career.

 

4 hours ago, Ravenseconbeast said:

It's easy, Flacco sucks.  

You can go back to Jets game this season(perhaps the most pathetic team this past decade).  Flacco went 0 TD + 2 INT + just barely over 55%completion rate.  
Then look at any QB that went against Jets this season.   He is the least efficient 3rd down QB starter this season.   Lower than Bortles and Osweiler.

You have a veteran QB that has the same trait:  Overt inaccurate throws(overthrow/underthrows), Zero sense of field awareness, Eyeing 1 target almost all the time, Systematic QB that only knows how to hit stride with highly established veteran WRs.  

 

Joe has zero chance when it comes to building rapport with new receivers.  

I am almost 100% sure we will draft quite a few handful of WR @ this draft, but more likely than not, he will fall into relying on veteran WRs next year(whoever that might be).   

 

What you said is probably believable to deluded crazy folk but sane people know there are more things to account for than cherry-picked stats.  If what you said about Flacco's inability to develop chemistry with "new" receivers is true then it would also apply to any pass-catcher by default since the mechanics are the same regardless of who the pass is designated to.  Unfortunately for you there's plenty of tape that destroys your perception of Joe as he can be frequently seen completing passes to drafted pass-catchers with good technique and reliable hands (Pitta & Rice being prime examples).

Another piece of evidence that destroys your superstition about Flacco's reliance on veterans is tape of him throwing to traded pass-catchers who either frequently sucked at getting open and making contested catches or were washed up by the time they got to Baltimore (Lee Evans, Jacoby Jones, Donte Stallworth).

Thirdly, if the failures of the passing game were Flacco's fault as you suggest why did the receivers fail to find success on other teams?  Tell me again, who among this group dominated defenders after leaving Baltimore?

Mark Clayton - First round pick.  Funny how his appraised level of talent failed to appear in Baltimore AND St. Louis.
David Reed - lol...Dude got a chance to tear it up with Luck.  What happened?
Torrey Smith - Largely still a one-dimensional PI specialist who only seems to be useful on short to intermediate routes when he's pissed off.  Even the F.O. noticed his limitations and sent him packing.
Tandon Doss - *scoff*
LaQuan Williams - ....no.

Marlon Brown, Tommy Streeter, I could go on but the point is beyond proven.  The F.O.'s selection of drafted/UDFA WRs during the Harbaugh era (minus the past two seasons since it's still too early to tell) have been mediocre at best and often worse.  NONE, I repeat, ZERO of Baltimore's drafted/UDFA receivers from 2008 to present have gone to be dominant elsewhere.  Point me to an instance where Joe failed with a Fitz, 'Tron, A.J. Green-caliber receiver.  I'll wait.

 

Edited December 27, 2016 by playlikeawhat

[PurpleCity5]

1 hour ago, Deflated Football said:

Alshon should come relatively cheap but his injuries scare me. But still, I'd double dip and be greedy and sign both him and Garçon. Those two plus BP, Wallace and camp would be ridiculous. We need to surround Joe with as many playmakers as possible. If the defense keeps letting the other team score 30+, that just means that we have to outscore everyone. Imagine if we got Payton in here too.

Don't think Wallace would be here if that means getting Alshon. 

[JonnyBaltimore]

20 minutes ago, playlikeawhat said:

 

 

I'm just as puzzled by the F.O.'s failure to draft a killer at this point of Joe's career.

 

 

What you said is probably believable to deluded crazy folk but sane people know there are more things to account for than cherry-picked stats.  If what you said about Flacco's inability to develop chemistry with "new" receivers is true then it would also apply to any pass-catcher by default since the mechanics are the same regardless of who the pass is designated to.  Unfortunately for you there's plenty of tape that destroys your perception of Joe as he can be frequently seen completing passes to drafted pass-catchers with good technique and reliable hands (Pitta & Rice being prime examples).

Another piece of evidence that destroys your superstition about Flacco's reliance on veterans is tape of him throwing to traded pass-catchers who either frequently sucked at getting open and making contested catches or were washed up by the time they got to Baltimore (Lee Evans, Jacoby Jones, Donte Stallworth).

Thirdly, if the failures of the passing game were Flacco's fault as you suggest why did the receivers fail to find success on other teams?  Tell me again, who among this group dominated defenders after leaving Baltimore?

Mark Clayton - First round pick.  Funny how his appraised level of talent failed to appear in Baltimore AND St. Louis.
David Reed - lol...Dude got a chance to tear it up with Luck.  What happened?
Torrey Smith - Largely still a one-dimensional PI specialist who only seems to be useful on short to intermediate routes when he's pissed off.  Even the F.O. noticed his limitations and sent him packing.
Tandon Doss - *scoff*
LaQuan Williams - ....no.

Marlon Brown, Tommy Streeter, I could go on but the point is beyond proven.  The F.O.'s selection of drafted/UDFA WRs during the Harbaugh era (minus the past two seasons since it's still too early to tell) have been mediocre at best and often worse.  NONE, I repeat, ZERO of Baltimore's drafted/UDFA receivers from 2008 to present have gone to be dominant elsewhere.  Point me to an instance where Joe failed with a Fitz, 'Tron, A.J. Green-caliber receiver.  I'll wait.

 

I agree with this. We have a terrible track record of drafting WR's and have not invested much in the position other than proven players. Anquan Boldin, Steve Smith Sr, Mike Wallace were all great moves. I am optimistic about Perriman and Campanaro as they have shown flashes of potential when healthy. Historically speaking, we should go the Free Agent route for Wide Receivers. I think B. Watson would've been another great pickup had he stayed healthy this year. Had Lee Evans held onto that ball, he would've been a solid pickup, but regretfully he will be remembered just as that. 

It is rare that you pick a WR in the draft and he leads the charge to the Super Bowl the next few years after the draft.

[flynismo]

So many holes on this team -- assuming we even retain all of our key players.

OG, C, CB, OLB are all absolutely critical needs. We must address every single one of those positions between FA and the draft.

And with SSS likely retiring, BP has to step up in a big way, or we are in big trouble at WR, which was already performing well below my expectations this year. Ozzie and company has their work cut out for them this year.

[flynismo]

7 hours ago, Ravens419 said:

I really think Garçon, or Vincent Jackson or Alshon Jeffery will be here next season who would you guys want the most of the three? 

Alshon would be tremendous. Exactly the kind of guy we need -- a big guy who is also a deep threat, and goes up and outplays DBs for the ball. He won't be as cheap as some think, probably in the $6-$7M year range, but he's not a guy we can let pass us by if we can get him without overpaying.

[flynismo]

59 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Don't think Wallace would be here if that means getting Alshon. 

I don't agree, but even if we had to choose between the two, Alshon is clearly the choice.

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

18 minutes ago, flynismo said:

So many holes on this team -- assuming we even retain all of our key players.

OG, C, CB, OLB are all absolutely critical needs. We must address every single one of those positions between FA and the draft.

And with SSS likely retiring, BP has to step up in a big way, or we are in big trouble at WR, which was already performing well below my expectations this year. Ozzie and company has their work cut out for them this year.

In order, we need a pass rusher, oline, and then a corner and then a WR. We're not in a terrible position but not in a favorable one.

[allblackraven]

27 minutes ago, flynismo said:

Alshon would be tremendous. Exactly the kind of guy we need -- a big guy who is also a deep threat, and goes up and outplays DBs for the ball. He won't be as cheap as some think, probably in the $6-$7M year range, but he's not a guy we can let pass us by if we can get him without overpaying.

I reckon $6-$7M is out of question for him, regardless of injuries and a suspension. He'll get more.

[Davesta]

I want us to use maxx and Darren more in 2017. I know pitta is joe's BFF, but he's slow and can't block to save his life. Let's see what we have in the best TE coming out of his draft class before his rookie contact is up and waste another pick. Hope the coaching staff stop choosing old vets on their last leg over developing younger guys (I'm still salty we cut 3rd round pick Terrence brooks for Kendrick Lewis). 

[Tank 92]

10 hours ago, Militant X 1 said:

How many sacks on Big Ben did his "emotions" have last night?

Suggs did seem worn and slow, no question. But I have to say I pretty much forgot that he has been playing with a torn biceps for the second half of the season. Not saying that could fully excuse his poor play, but it surely didn't help him.

[Eoghan Copeland]

What we need is for 

1. Perriman to take the step up and become a star in the league next season. We've seen glimpses, but we need more. Terrance West is also another who needs to start impacting games consistently.

2. CJ Mosley needs to start leading this defense. He's the best player so it should be his unit , not Weddle's and certainly not Suggs

[JoeyFlex5]

On 12/25/2016 at 11:09 PM, Gruntled Ravens Fan said:

Actually there were reports that Baltimore was going to take Dez but Dallas jumped one spot in front of us. Sammy went #4 and OBJ went 13th. Unless we traded up there is no way they were going to come to us. Luckily for us this draft has good receivers in it.

Wr is probably the 2nd weakest position in this draft after OT

[rmw10]

7 hours ago, PurpleCity5 said:

That's absolutely true and that's the problem, who are you going to replace him with? If a player like Brandon Marshall comes along who is a great WR but seems to bounce around is there then sure but if not then I guess you're going to stick with him. FWIW, I think Alshon Jeffery is a better player and at the same price I'm taking Alshon all the way. That's literally the only guy I could think of right now and even he has his question marks. 

I know we're not getting a #1 WR but I don't think signing one is a horrible idea, It's not like we're developing one and then keeping one is going to be cheap either. If Ozzie could grab Julio Jones, Odell Beckham or Antonio Brown for $70M he would do it, but he knows for a fact that he won't win that bidding war. 

The missing element to this offense has always been a play-maker. That's a proven fact and right now, with the way the offense has preformed this year, you could argue that play-maker might be up there with OLB, and CB. It holds this offense back year after year honestly. 

That's the tough part.  Even the "#1" options out there have their question marks.

Brandon Marshall is a nice thought and could be on his way out regardless of the money because of some more locker room issues, but do we even want a guy like that?  Even if you say yes, he doesn't have many more years left in him and you're back in the same situation in a couple of years.

Alshon Jeffrey also sounds good but he's going to get paid, even with his issues, and I highly doubt we'll be in the running there.  He's got some serious injury issues and it's hard to commit a ton of money to a guy that always seems to be out dealing with something.

And that leaves you... basically a whole bunch of nothing.  If we're going to invest in a WR, I'd much rather us go the Marvin Jones type of route and get someone on the younger side that may not be a #1, but at least has a proven track record and can provide you something.  I doubt we'll be getting a #1 unless it's via trade or via draft.  Those guys just don't come available, and as we've both alluded to, you can't really cut Wallace without having something else in place.

I think the main thing we have to learn to do is to not worry so much about comp picks.  There are a lot of good players out there that we've passed on solely because we opted for someone else's discard.  It works sometimes, but other times, you have to pick the best player.  Just a couple of years back, we opted not to pay Julian Edelman or Emanuel Sanders $5M/year because we thought we could get Campanaro at the same value in the draft.  I bet they're regretting that decision right now.

[rmcjacket23]

Team needs playmakers. Its that simple.

Typically those types of players come in the form of receivers, secondary players, and pass rushers, which are arguably are three weakest positions. 

Pittsburgh beat us because they had more playmakers than we did. Its not because they were significantly better overall team. 

[rmw10]

1 minute ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Team needs playmakers. Its that simple.

Typically those types of players come in the form of receivers, secondary players, and pass rushers, which are arguably are three weakest positions. 

Pittsburgh beat us because they had more playmakers than we did. Its not because they were significantly better overall team. 

We've been missing a playmaker for so long.  Our last one was probably Jacoby and that's kind of sad.  I think you see spurts of that potential from Perriman, but that's still a significant work in progress of course.  Otherwise, your next best playmaker at those 3 positions is Tavon Young.  I like Young, but that's not a good thing.

There's no one on this team that is a consistent threat to change a game on one play.  Those Ozzie "doubles" have started to catch up to us.  We're getting good players but how much is a NT like Brandon Williams really going to affect this team?  We really need to hit at a skill position.  I know Ozzie likes his BPA, but this draft should be dedicated to infusing young talent at the skill positions.

[The Mom Gene]

1 hour ago, Eoghan Copeland said:

What we need is for 

1. Perriman to take the step up and become a star in the league next season. We've seen glimpses, but we need more. Terrance West is also another who needs to start impacting games consistently.

2. CJ Mosley needs to start leading this defense. He's the best player so it should be his unit , not Weddle's and certainly not Suggs

I think that Weddle has because of his leadership in SD.   CJ wore the helmet last season... and I thought he did also this year.  I'd have to go check on that, but Mosley has been fine.  Perriman has essentially been a rookie this year.

 

[rmw10]

10 minutes ago, The Mom Gene said:

I think that Weddle has because of his leadership in SD.   CJ wore the helmet last season... and I thought he did also this year.  I'd have to go check on that, but Mosley has been fine.  Perriman has essentially been a rookie this year.

 

To further this point, I think Mosley is a leader, but not the rah-rah type.  He's another quiet guy who leads by example more than anything, but he has shown a bit more emotion this year.

[Ravens419]

Mosley is our leader for the future and dare I say minus the Rah-Rah he's our replacement for Ray Lewis he will get paid when it's time also but I think Suggs still had the veteran aspect of this team to get them ready for games

[Militant X 1]

52 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Team needs playmakers. Its that simple.

Typically those types of players come in the form of receivers, secondary players, and pass rushers, which are arguably are three weakest positions. 

Pittsburgh beat us because they had more playmakers than we did. Its not because they were significantly better overall team. 

We've known and said this all season long to be honest so it doesn't come as a surprise.  Getting those "playmakers" on this team and in the game has been the achilles heel for this team.

[Ravens419]

2 minutes ago, Militant X 1 said:

We've known and said this all season long to be honest so it doesn't come as a surprise.  Getting those "playmakers" on this team and in the game has been the achilles heel for this team.

I think if we can get atleast one more "playmaker" on both sides of the ball this team could be dangerous 

[Militant X 1]

49 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

We've been missing a playmaker for so long.  Our last one was probably Jacoby and that's kind of sad.  I think you see spurts of that potential from Perriman, but that's still a significant work in progress of course.  Otherwise, your next best playmaker at those 3 positions is Tavon Young.  I like Young, but that's not a good thing.

There's no one on this team that is a consistent threat to change a game on one play.  Those Ozzie "doubles" have started to catch up to us.  We're getting good players but how much is a NT like Brandon Williams really going to affect this team?  We really need to hit at a skill position.  I know Ozzie likes his BPA, but this draft should be dedicated to infusing young talent at the skill positions.

I'm not just going to go along with the crowd here.  I don't see spurts of potential.  I'm not saying that he can't or won't be "that" guy...but as of now....this season...he was just "a" guy.  Plain and simple.  Nothing spectacular to put in your mental files.

[Militant X 1]

Just now, Ravens419 said:

I think if we can get atleast one more "playmaker" on both sides of the ball this team could be dangerous 

We need more than "one" playmaker on both sides of the ball Ravens419.  That's limiting ourselves!  To be honest we need a few!  Don't forget about our depth issues.

[rmw10]

1 minute ago, Militant X 1 said:

I'm not just going to go along with the crowd here.  I don't see spurts of potential.  I'm not saying that he can't or won't be "that" guy...but as of now....this season...he was just "a" guy.  Plain and simple.  Nothing spectacular to put in your mental files.

I mean, I can understand the thought process, but I don't see how you saw nothing spectacular.  It was a season marred by drops for him, but he had some insane catches at big moments in games.

[trevorsteadman]

5 hours ago, allblackraven said:

I reckon $6-$7M is out of question for him, regardless of injuries and a suspension. He'll get more.

Yeah I was thinking $10 million....

[Ravens419]

2 minutes ago, Militant X 1 said:

We need more than "one" playmaker on both sides of the ball Ravens419.  That's limiting ourselves!  To be honest we need a few!  Don't forget about our depth issues.

Fair but I think we have a good D our offense has some potential with maybe a KD breakout coming I think adding one could do wonders for us