State of the Ravens going into 2017

[Moderator 3]

Just now, trevorsteadman said:

I didn't read the article I only read what was on here. That would make more sense.

You'll have to watch the Press Conference when it's posted.

[DomMcRaven]

2 minutes ago, rossihunter2 said:

i think you guys missed it - he was referring to the end of 2015 when jimmy wasnt playing well and the defense improved dramatically down the stretch when shareece wright did play well - his whole point was they they projected him to play at least as good as he did then for this season but he didnt which they also acknowledged

If that's the case, then fine my bad. However, it's not like he really played as well THIS season so that left me a bit confused. 

[rossihunter2]

2 minutes ago, trevorsteadman said:

I didn't read the article I only read what was on here. That would make more sense.

it was the end of season presser that just finished

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

7 minutes ago, DomMcRaven said:

Don't get me wrong, I like Biscotti says that he doesn't fire people for the sake of it, but I totally didn't understand how he could say Wright > Jimmy. Not saying we would've beaten DAL, but clearly we missed Jimmy in that game. Wright got abused by Dez plain and simple.

He said Wright played better than Jimmy the last 6 games of 2015. So they thought they had quality depth at corner.

He then went on to say, Wright stopped playing with technique and fundamentals this year, and really regressed. Him, and others like him, playing below expectation (and how they had played  the previous year) helped sink this team.

He very specifically called Wright out for playing very poorly this year, and being a serious culprit in letting the team down.

 

 

Edited January 10 by BOLDnPurPnBlacK

[DomMcRaven]

Just now, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

He said Wright played better than Jimmy the last 6 games of 2015. So they thought they had quality depth at corner.

He then went on to say, Wright stopped playing with technique and fundamentals this year, and really regressed. Him, and others like him, playing below expectation (and how they had played  the previous year) helped sink this team.

He very specifically called Wright out for playing very poorly this year, and being a serious culprit in letting the team down.

Okay now THAT makes sense. Didn't get to see the presser by the way.

[Rebel Raven]

After watching the presser, i get the feeling olb/passrush is not as high on their big board as it is ours. Oz seemed to have faith in developing our young pass rushers. I may be totally wrong here but i think they go corner in the first. Obviously depending on how the board falls however

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

1 minute ago, DomMcRaven said:

Okay now THAT makes sense. Didn't get to see the presser by the way.

It was during a portion about roster building and personnel evaluation.

He was discussing that they evaluate and make decisions on the following year based on whats in front of them. And since Wright outplayed Jimmy down the stretch, they felt confident that they didnt necessarily need to make a really big move at corner... and adding solid depth or players with upside would suffice.

Based on his continued improvement through 2015 they felt comfortable that he would play at least as good as 2015, with a hope that he'd show improvement with more experience in the team and system.

Key decisions like that, and him playing far worse can sink the best laid plans. Because Tavon playing so well could have made this secondary lock down had Wright done his part. But he regressed - big time... and so there was almost always one vulnerable CB on the field.

And not only did it effect the corner groups quality and depth... and all the on field ramifications - the money that went to him could have gone elsewhere to shore up other positions. But its all hindsight analysis.

His point was - at the time it was the right decision. With the info available, Ozzie used resources to sign a guy that played way above expectation to a very fair deal if all he did was play close to what he did in 2015. He didnt and that really hurt the team. But he cant fire Ozzie for a decision like that just bc it didnt work out... all the info AT THE TIME said it was the right move.

[rossihunter2]

2 minutes ago, Rebel Raven said:

After watching the presser, i get the feeling olb/passrush is not as high on their big board as it is ours. Oz seemed to have faith in developing our young pass rushers. I may be totally wrong here but i think they go corner in the first. Obviously depending on how the board falls however

to me it sounded like they are trying to seed doubt in other teams' minds because everyone and their aunt at this point has been thinking we are gonna be chasing edge rushers - oz did mention later when asked that if a guy is there, they'll take him - i think its draftmanship already

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

4 minutes ago, Rebel Raven said:

After watching the presser, i get the feeling olb/passrush is not as high on their big board as it is ours. Oz seemed to have faith in developing our young pass rushers. I may be totally wrong here but i think they go corner in the first. Obviously depending on how the board falls however

I didnt get that impression at all.

Oz said specifically, anyone who can effect the QB with pressure... whether its interior DL, or off the edge - they want them here. Through the draft, FA, trade, whatever... if you can rush the QB they're going to try and bring them in. I dont think it gets more direct than that.

I think CB is also a priority. So is WR... he very clearly stated they need another one and will bring one or more in via either FA or draft. They want another RB - John clearly pointed to West and Dixon, and a lack of ability being a contributing factor to abandoning the run at times.

But in terms of draft - theyre going to pick the best guy on their board. It just depends on who gets picked in front of us.

[DomMcRaven]

13 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

It was during a portion about roster building and personnel evaluation.

He was discussing that they evaluate and make decisions on the following year based on whats in front of them. And since Wright outplayed Jimmy down the stretch, they felt confident that they didnt necessarily need to make a really big move at corner... and adding solid depth or players with upside would suffice.

Based on his continued improvement through 2015 they felt comfortable that he would play at least as good as 2015, with a hope that he'd show improvement with more experience in the team and system.

Key decisions like that, and him playing far worse can sink the best laid plans. Because Tavon playing so well could have made this secondary lock down had Wright done his part. But he regressed - big time... and so there was almost always one vulnerable CB on the field.

And not only did it effect the corner groups quality and depth... and all the on field ramifications - the money that went to him could have gone elsewhere to shore up other positions. But its all hindsight analysis.

His point was - at the time it was the right decision. With the info available, Ozzie used resources to sign a guy that played way above expectation to a very fair deal if all he did was play close to what he did in 2015. He didnt and that really hurt the team. But he cant fire Ozzie for a decision like that just bc it didnt work out... all the info AT THE TIME said it was the right move.

Well said and thank you for this. 

[The Raven]

Looking at tweets from reporters, it seems Ozzie and Harbaugh want a stronger offensive line. Also hearing rumblings that we're bringing in Greg Roman, or at least hoping to. I wonder if this signals a shift away from zone. Zuttah and Wagner are both relatively weak guys. Not very strong. Wagner's good but just not that strong.

It would make sense if we switched it up. Wagner is strictly a zone guy, as is Zuttah. Letting a top five RT go makes sense if he isn't a scheme fit.

[jazz1988]

5 minutes ago, The Raven said:

Looking at tweets from reporters, it seems Ozzie and Harbaugh want a stronger offensive line. Also hearing rumblings that we're bringing in Greg Roman, or at least hoping to. I wonder if this signals a shift away from zone. Zuttah and Wagner are both relatively weak guys. Not very strong. Wagner's good but just not that strong.

It would make sense if we switched it up. Wagner is strictly a zone guy, as is Zuttah. Letting a top five RT go makes sense if he isn't a scheme fit.

Greg Roman is regarded as pretty versatile with his  blocking scheme according to what I have read about him . The Ravens have try to be versatile with their blocking scheme as well so I don't expect a big  change  with the blocking scheme .

[Deflated Football]

12 minutes ago, The Raven said:

Looking at tweets from reporters, it seems Ozzie and Harbaugh want a stronger offensive line. Also hearing rumblings that we're bringing in Greg Roman, or at least hoping to. I wonder if this signals a shift away from zone. Zuttah and Wagner are both relatively weak guys. Not very strong. Wagner's good but just not that strong.

It would make sense if we switched it up. Wagner is strictly a zone guy, as is Zuttah. Letting a top five RT go makes sense if he isn't a scheme fit.

What kind of system would Roman implement if not zone? Sorry, not good with offensive line talk. 

[allblackraven]

Unless it's a smoke screen, we're not taking edge rusher early, according to Ozzie. Again. Priorities - secondary, complementary WR, OL and we will rely on ZDS / Juddon, with Suggs getting older.

And I stopped watching after Harbaugh's statement that "we are trying to find our identity". There lies the problem - this franchise had the identity respected by everybody but it doesn't any longer and they keep looking for new one but can't find it.

[The Raven]

15 minutes ago, jazz1988 said:

Greg Roman is regarded as pretty versatile with his  blocking scheme according to what I have read about him . The Ravens have try to be versatile with their blocking scheme as well so I don't expect a big  change  with the blocking scheme .

 

9 minutes ago, Deflated Football said:

What kind of system would Roman implement if not zone? Sorry, not good with offensive line talk. 

Greg primarily runs gap and man, with zone sprinkled in.

[rossihunter2]

10 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

Unless it's a smoke screen, we're not taking edge rusher early, according to Ozzie. Again. Priorities - secondary, complementary WR, OL and we will rely on ZDS / Juddon, with Suggs getting older.

And I stopped watching after Harbaugh's statement that "we are trying to find our identity". There lies the problem - this franchise had the identity respected by everybody but it doesn't any longer and they keep looking for new one but can't find it.

i did sound like a smoke screen when they first said it because they never doubled down - ozzie specifically said whenever you can get a guy who can affect the quarterback you grab him

[allblackraven]

Just now, rossihunter2 said:

i did sound like a smoke screen when they first said it because they never doubled down - ozzie specifically said whenever you can get a guy who can affect the quarterback you grab him

He keeps saying that year after year, then goes on and wastes 2nd on Correa

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

12 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

He keeps saying that year after year, then goes on and wastes 2nd on Correa

come on. You said you stopped listening, which means you missed the part where Ozzie said they need more guys who can effect the QB. Whether its DL, edge rushers, whatever... they need more and better guys that can do it. And whether its by FA, trade or draft - if youve shown you can rush the passer he wants to try and bring them in.

It doesnt get any more direct than that.

But its also not wrong to expect Doom to play better if healthy (if they keep him... i dont expect this honestly), Judon to improve, ZDS to play better, Pierce to be better, Kaufusi to add something (maybe a lot), and Correa to improve (and maybe with someone like Doom gone he can focus on it; maybe theyre going to bulk him up).

Correa didnt do anything this year -- doesnt mean it was a wasted pick. Was Perriman a wasted pick? Some would probably argue that... some would already say absolutely not, but the truth is we dont know.

Was Jimmy Smith a wasted pick? No. We now know that. But after his rookie year, many said that. Heck, people were still saying it after his 2nd and 3rd years. Some say it now.

 

I get everyones in emotional and whiny moods (not necessarily you) and just wants to knock everything the owner, coaches, QB, and GM says or does - but this black and white mindset is silly. Correas a waste? How do we know that? I forgot, every good player ever played and played well their rookie year.

[allblackraven]

8 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

come on. You said you stopped listening, which means you missed the part where Ozzie said they need more guys who can effect the QB. Whether its DL, edge rushers, whatever... they need more and better guys that can do it. And whether its by FA, trade or draft - if youve shown you can rush the passer he wants to try and bring them in.

It doesnt get any more direct than that.

No, I saw that part, too - he only said that after reporter insisted on asking about pass rush, following Ozzie's original priorities statement, in which pass rush wasn't even an afterthought.

 

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

6 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

No, I saw that part, too - he only said that after reporter insisted on asking about pass rush, following Ozzie's original priorities statement, in which pass rush wasn't even an afterthought.

 

Well yea, because if i really am targeting a pass rusher and think im going to have a shot at him at 16... i really want to broadcast to everyone behind me that thats my intent so they know they have to trade in front of me.

He didnt list it as a top priority originally, and then said they want to bring in anyone and everyone that can rush the passer.

He said both... why do you only believe the one? Take him at his word, or dont.

 

EDIT: it was also said that Monroe was our starting LT at this press conference last year. That turned out didnt it?

Edited January 10 by BOLDnPurPnBlacK

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

So, the Raiders are letting Bill Musgrave go as OC.

He led a top 6 offense, and has guided Carr to 2 Pro Bowls, 60 TDs to only 18 INTs in 2 years. Big time development this year too.

He was a QB Coach... in.... guess where?..... PHILLY of all places.

 

Im calling it now - Ravens Fans - meet your new QB Coach.

[GrimCoconut]

Yeah that could very well be the move at QB coach

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

1 minute ago, GrimCoconut said:

Yeah that could very well be the move at QB coach

Forgot, he was also OC under Leslie Frazier.

Its coming full circle.

 

EDIT: In all seriousness though, adding Musgrave as QB Coach and pulling Roman in as offensive assistant/run game specialist would be an awesome haul, imo.

Edited January 10 by BOLDnPurPnBlacK

[allblackraven]

19 minutes ago, BOLDnPurPnBlacK said:

So, the Raiders are letting Bill Musgrave go as OC.
He led a top 6 offense, and has guided Carr to 2 Pro Bowls, 60 TDs to only 18 INTs in 2 years.
Big time development this year too. He was a QB Coach... in.... guess where?..... PHILLY of all places.
Im calling it now - Ravens Fans - meet your new QB Coach.

 

16 minutes ago, GrimCoconut said:

Yeah that could very well be the move at QB coach

How likely is it that he goes down to QB coach and not moving laterally at least to NE / Falcons? He might even have a shot at competing with McDaniels and Shanahan for one of the open HC jobs.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

3 minutes ago, allblackraven said:

 

How likely is it that he goes down to QB coach and not moving laterally at least to NE / Falcons? He might even have a shot at competing with McDaniels and Shanahan for one of the open HC jobs.

I honestly dont know... the new just broke an hour or so ago. Im sure if any reasons come out that could shed some clarity on it.

But, i dont know if im looking to hire a new OC i want to go with the guy that just oversaw a near Top 5 offense, but whose team chose not to renew his contract afterward. Especially a team right in the thick of developing a franchise QB who simply just didnt want the guy anymore and are preferring to move on to an unproven QB coach.

I personally expect the Pats to promote from within... maybe talk to Chip Kelly (but i doubt it happens). 

Highly doubtful he gets a HC job. Teams wouldnt have had to wait for the Raiders to let him go to interview him for a HC position and no one has. So, he either gets an offer for an OC position or hes getting a demotion somewhere.

He's got a connection to Leslie Frazier, serving as his OC. He has a 2x connection with the Eagles, as does much of our staff. They know a lot of the same people. And hes worked with Del Rio twice as his OC... who is a former Raven.

Lots more connection here than to any other job. I just think it seemed all too perfect that as we're in talks with potential QB Coach options yet no name has been announced... Musgraves contract is mysteriously allowed to expire after 2 very successful years. Just seems way too odd.

[rmw10]

Here are my impressions.  Full disclosure - I'm aware they probably threw some smoke screens in there, but I'll operate on the premise that they were completely truthful...

Joe is starting to enter the danger zone.  If he doesn't improve next year, I think we'll start making a serious effort to find a QB of the future.  I'd guess it's more likely to be a mid round pick than actually aiming to replace him, but I think they realize he needs to be better or we're not going to be a good team.

Based off of today, I think Wallace will be staying.  It was mentioned that we need to find a complementary WR, which would be a chain moving type since our current top 3 are all speed guys mostly.  It sound like that could be another vet signing, but I'd also expect another mid round draft pick.

Wagner is gone.  They specifically mentioned the need for big and strong lineman.  I don't think either of those adjectives necessarily describe Wagner.  It seems we're looking to move more to a power scheme.

OLB may not be a priority after all.  If there's anywhere that I see a smoke screen, it's certainly here.  However, if I am to believe what they said, I'd expect a mid-level FA addition and rolling with what we have otherwise.

CB remains a need and Shareece Wright will not be filling that need.  It's never good when the owner himself calls you out.  Hopefully this year they actually mean it though because it's stated every single year how CB remains a need.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

4 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Here are my impressions.  Full disclosure - I'm aware they probably threw some smoke screens in there, but I'll operate on the premise that they were completely truthful...

Joe is starting to enter the danger zone.  If he doesn't improve next year, I think we'll start making a serious effort to find a QB of the future.  I'd guess it's more likely to be a mid round pick than actually aiming to replace him, but I think they realize he needs to be better or we're not going to be a good team.

Based off of today, I think Wallace will be staying.  It was mentioned that we need to find a complementary WR, which would be a chain moving type since our current top 3 are all speed guys mostly.  It sound like that could be another vet signing, but I'd also expect another mid round draft pick.

Wagner is gone.  They specifically mentioned the need for big and strong lineman.  I don't think either of those adjectives necessarily describe Wagner.  It seems we're looking to move more to a power scheme.

OLB may not be a priority after all.  If there's anywhere that I see a smoke screen, it's certainly here.  However, if I am to believe what they said, I'd expect a mid-level FA addition and rolling with what we have otherwise.

CB remains a need and Shareece Wright will not be filling that need.  It's never good when the owner himself calls you out.  Hopefully this year they actually mean it though because it's stated every single year how CB remains a need.

The Wagner bit is interesting too. Because they also made a point to compare Lewis to KO, which would seem to mean they project him at guard... which means there isnt necessarily an in house replacement. So, we'd either be looking to sign a RT or draft one.... which i dont like, because under this assumption we're already looking to sign/draft a Center.

Maybe we do roll with 2 sophomores and 2 rookies on the line. idk. doesnt seem like a recipe for short term success, though it could potentially set us up long term. 

I did see a tidbit about them upping the PS centers salary... like big time in the last couple weeks of the season. it was something like an 400% increase or more. doesnt necessarily mean anything, but it shows they like him. maybe hes a future option at C?

 

Either way, OL is clearly a priority. And im happy about that, because a great line automatically makes Joe, the receivers, and the run game better even if they dont improve. More time, cleaner pocket, bigger holes will almost always mean better play.

[rossihunter2]

3 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

It seems we're looking to move more to a power scheme.

given the success that the titans, cowboys and bills (after they changed OCs) had with their power running schemes this seems like a good offensive trend to get on before the rest of the league - it's the perfect antithesis to the hybrid safety/linebacker position and it allows you to control the clock and time of possession

4 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

OLB may not be a priority after all.

well initially it looked like a smokescreen but when asked later ozzie responded that whenever you can get your hands on a guy who can affect the qb then you have to take them - so unless this was a sly comment about keeping doom onboard i think this was him under the radar saying that of course pass rusher was on the cards (i just think the lack of mentioning it earlier was both a smokescreen and maybe an implicit acknowledgement of the weaknesses of getting a pass rusher in free agency)

[AnthonyGames]

I actually whole-heartedly agree with what they are saying. I mentioned this in a post the other day. Einseberg wrote a post the other day about how with Jimmy Smith, we were the number one defense in the NFL. Without him the last four games, we were the worst defense! The proof is in the pudding, so to speak! The state of our OLB group is way better than our CB group. I think Suggs has one more solid year as a non-every down pass rusher (had 8 sacks this year), Judon, Za'Darius Smith, Correa (wasn't drafted in the second round for nothing), and Dumervil (who I believe is gone) on paper is a solid group! Add another pass rusher or two in rounds 3-6 and we can hit on somebody. With Kafusi playing and Henry coming back, that should help too.

As far as CB goes, we got Jimmy Smith and Tavon Young...everyone else is quite terrible. If we draft a sure-fire CB in the 1st round that can play on the other side of Jimmy, and have Tavon Young play slot and/or backup. Then add another couple CB's via free agency or draft. Cut Arrington, Powers, and maybe Wright. We definitely need another WR, which we could hopefully find via FA. I think Perriman will be really good next year. I'd love to see us draft an upper-echelon center in rounds two or three and solidify our O-Line. Cut Zuttah. Our O-Line would then be very solid. Having a good O-Line makes an offense.

[lgcs27288]

6 hours ago, AnthonyGames said:

Correa (wasn't drafted in the second round for nothing)

What about Arthur Brown?

 

 

My favorite part was when Bisciotti was like trust me, I know how to run a business and you dont do it by firing people. (I love it because it goes against the mentality of most on this board.)