State of the Ravens going into 2017

[hn68wb4]

On 12/28/2016 at 5:17 PM, The Raven said:

Considering Brandon Williams looked like a backup for the past four games, and Rick Wagner has been our best offensive lineman for most of the year, yes.

Williams has not earned the contract he will be offered. Rick Wagner has.

That's a way overstatement. Williams didn't have the best few weeks, our entire run D hasn't, spending the entire season without offensive help - particularly no run game - will do that to any defensive unit. Add to the equation that we've been missing our best CB the past couple weeks so we've had to compensate by dropping more guys back, the play of our Williams and the rest of our Dline is the product of just being worn down. Williams is still arguably the best NT in the NFL, many would still list him as the best plain and simple.

I agree that he's going to walk in FA, but we aren't letting him walk because he's played poorly, he just going to get more than we want to pay him and we're more prepared to lose him than we are prepared to lose Wagner, that's it. Williams has earned the contract he's going to get, don't be straight disrespectful to the guy because our offense has been incompetent for much of the year.

[RavensDieHard21]

3 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I mean I think we'll have somewhere in the range of $20-25M in cap space to spend, so I have no issue spending that on your own players. I guess in the grand scheme of things, $8M/year isn't a huge numbers in today's salary cap. Talking about less than 5% of the cap at this point.

And, while I agree his production is limited, he is unquestionably a great, young player and is easily one of the better players on this team.

I think what would be disappointing to me is if we let both Williams and Wagner walk. You basically wouldn't have any significant long-term signings in that draft class, outside of like Juice and maybe somebody like Jensen as a reserve. Its pretty disappointing if you can't lock up at least one player per draft class to a substantial long term deal. We failed to lock up anybody from the 2012 draft either, meaning back to back draft classes with no significant long term deals.

Granted, the 2014 draft class looks like you have two guys you'd probably want to keep long term in Mosley and Jernigan, though I suspect the FO is basically choosing between Williams and Jernigan at this point. Both have their pros and cons.

All depends on that number. $8 million seems fair, but I wouldn't pay a penny more. Ozzie I think will want to save for Mosley, Orr and Jernigan. Those three all have a lot more upside moving forward I think. 

[Jonah DeVito]

On 12/26/2016 at 1:05 AM, Deflated Football said:

I'll take a crack at this since I was right about us signing Weddle and Wallace when a lot of members said there was no way in hell.

1.) Sign Brandon Marshall. He's having a down year, but he has had abysmal QB play. He's that guy that can go over the middle or physically manhandle any DB on any route. The Jets want to clean house and rebuild, and he could be a cut candidate. Perfect target for Flacco.

2.) Trade for Kyle Fuller. Cut Shareece and PLEASE don't re-sign Powers. Have Jimmy and Tavon on the outsides with Fuller in the slot. Address the rest of the position in the draft or free agency (cap casualties, UFA's, etc). 

3.) Cut Pitta. His time here is done. Maxx, Waller and Boyle needs more reps. I cannot emphasize this enough. I'm not sold on Crockett.

4.) Cut Doom. He's ineffective, slow and oft-injured. Unleash the beast that is Judon. I think Sizz still has one more season left and we can find his replacement in next years draft, or have Correa put in a lot of work in the offseason because his first step is insane and we need him to realize his potential.

5.) End Jabrill Peppers' slide and select the versatile monster who can also be a force in the return game. If he's not there, take Mike Williams. Him, Brandon Marshall, Mike Wallace, Breshad, Campanaro and Moore. Not bad. 

6.) Cut Zuttah. He gets pushed back into Flacco way too often and draws too many drive killing penalties. Draft Ethan Pocic in the second and beef him up. Look how he helped Fournette. 

7.) Fire Pees and go hard after Gus Bradley, Chuck Pagano (if he's fired), Rex Ryan (if he's fired), or literally anyone else. I'm sick of his crap. 

8.) I'm willing to give Marty one more season unless Hue Jackson or Mike McCoy become available. 

I'm sure I can think of more, but I'm absolutely drained from tonights heartbreaking loss. Onto 2017! 

Man if we could get these 8 things done I'd get even more excited for next season than I already am. 

[rmcjacket23]

7 hours ago, RavensDieHard21 said:

All depends on that number. $8 million seems fair, but I wouldn't pay a penny more. Ozzie I think will want to save for Mosley, Orr and Jernigan. Those three all have a lot more upside moving forward I think. 

Orr isn't the kind of player who's going to cost much. To me, he's a $3-4M a year linebacker. I would almost guarantee that he would struggle elsewhere if he were signed by another team to be their #1 ILB. I frankly think he's an easy player to retain.

Mosley will be expensive but not gigantically expensive. He's not at the level of a Keuchly or a Wagner I don't think, so I don't think he will get like $10M a year or more. He's an $8M a year player I think.

Jernigan is tough to figure out. I would think he would be in a similar price range, maybe at $7-8M a year. 

[Tank 92]

30 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Jernigan is tough to figure out. I would think he would be in a similar price range, maybe at $7-8M a year. 

Thinking Jernigan's undisciplined gaffs and stupidity have probably lowered his value in Bmore.

Edited December 30, 2016 by Tank 92

[January J]

I really liked what dean pees had to say in his latest presser and his explanation of our loss to the steelers. I think he was spot on. I was kind of ready to move on from him but Im not so sure. Aside from continuity being important for this team, I think pees really understands what needs to be done, and I think the players rallied behind him this year and really like him. We just need to give him the players ( pass rushers ) he needs to succeed. Once again he took mediocre talent and turned it into a top 5 defense. I know many have a Iove hate relationship with him here- but we need to give him another shot unless another obvious candidate is just jumping out at us. Originally I was thinking Frazier would be a good answer since he's already in-house... But we didn't hear too much about or from him this year. Never heard the players talk about him or anything. Now I think he did a great job with the secondary ,  which is why I would elect to keep him there. The only person off the top of my head that I would consider exceeding pees would be Marvin Lewis- and we have no idea if that will even be an option or if he will want to go back to coordinating after coaching. I'd be highly surprised iif Cincinnati didnt move on from him though.

Edited December 30, 2016 by January J

[RavensDieHard21]

48 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Orr isn't the kind of player who's going to cost much. To me, he's a $3-4M a year linebacker. I would almost guarantee that he would struggle elsewhere if he were signed by another team to be their #1 ILB. I frankly think he's an easy player to retain.

Mosley will be expensive but not gigantically expensive. He's not at the level of a Keuchly or a Wagner I don't think, so I don't think he will get like $10M a year or more. He's an $8M a year player I think.

Jernigan is tough to figure out. I would think he would be in a similar price range, maybe at $7-8M a year. 

I am optimistic of those prices, but ya never know when these players and their egos inflate during FA and teams will pay anything for talent. But we will see. I'd like to keep Orr and Mosley because they really compliment one another. 

[rmw10]

59 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Orr isn't the kind of player who's going to cost much. To me, he's a $3-4M a year linebacker. I would almost guarantee that he would struggle elsewhere if he were signed by another team to be their #1 ILB. I frankly think he's an easy player to retain.

Mosley will be expensive but not gigantically expensive. He's not at the level of a Keuchly or a Wagner I don't think, so I don't think he will get like $10M a year or more. He's an $8M a year player I think.

Jernigan is tough to figure out. I would think he would be in a similar price range, maybe at $7-8M a year. 

Somewhat unrelated, but still kind of related... I'm looking forward to seeing Onwuasor start this weekend for the injured Zach Orr.  We know Orr has some limitations in coverage, and PO is a good dime candidate.  It would be nice to see if he's an option for that type of role next year and Orr might not be a full time player, at least on passing downs, anymore.

[January J]

On 12/26/2016 at 1:05 AM, Deflated Football said:

I'll take a crack at this since I was right about us signing Weddle and Wallace when a lot of members said there was no way in hell.

1.) Sign Brandon Marshall. He's having a down year, but he has had abysmal QB play. He's that guy that can go over the middle or physically manhandle any DB on any route. The Jets want to clean house and rebuild, and he could be a cut candidate. Perfect target for Flacco.

2.) Trade for Kyle Fuller. Cut Shareece and PLEASE don't re-sign Powers. Have Jimmy and Tavon on the outsides with Fuller in the slot. Address the rest of the position in the draft or free agency (cap casualties, UFA's, etc). 

3.) Cut Pitta. His time here is done. Maxx, Waller and Boyle needs more reps. I cannot emphasize this enough. I'm not sold on Crockett.

4.) Cut Doom. He's ineffective, slow and oft-injured. Unleash the beast that is Judon. I think Sizz still has one more season left and we can find his replacement in next years draft, or have Correa put in a lot of work in the offseason because his first step is insane and we need him to realize his potential.

5.) End Jabrill Peppers' slide and select the versatile monster who can also be a force in the return game. If he's not there, take Mike Williams. Him, Brandon Marshall, Mike Wallace, Breshad, Campanaro and Moore. Not bad. 

6.) Cut Zuttah. He gets pushed back into Flacco way too often and draws too many drive killing penalties. Draft Ethan Pocic in the second and beef him up. Look how he helped Fournette. 

7.) Fire Pees and go hard after Gus Bradley, Chuck Pagano (if he's fired), Rex Ryan (if he's fired), or literally anyone else. I'm sick of his crap. 

8.) I'm willing to give Marty one more season unless Hue Jackson or Mike McCoy become available. 

I'm sure I can think of more, but I'm absolutely drained from tonights heartbreaking loss. Onto 2017! 

1) don't like his off the feild commitments and could be a potential distraction but his talent would be worth the risk, very intriguing option- and less injury prone than a guy like Jeffrey. I remember when he asked harbaugh how he would feel about him being a raven and still doing inside the NFL and harbs said something like they could work something out. Nice thought.

2) not a bad thought but takes two to trade. Shareece isn't bad depth  either but we did overpay him. Give him a paycut and if he refuses thern seyonara. We do need another REAL corner who can actually step up if jimmy goes down so we won't be dead in the water and left hanging. Been working with scraps for far too long.

3)not so sure. Crock hasn't been healthy- maxx  has shown zero progression- watson should be a definite cut- and boyles next slip up will be 3 strikes. I think waller will make big strides for us...but that still leaves us without a true vet..the tight end position takes a long time to get down,  and Pitta's rapport with Joe is like no other. Ofcourse we cant keep him at the current number...but I think he's more than willing to take a paycut to stay with his buddys and keep his family in Baltimore. To be continued.

4) Agreed. Doom is done here and siz has 1 more good year left in him once he gets that bicep right.  Priority has to be pass rush this off season and we need to focus on getting KC where he needs to be instead of confusing him with multiple opositions. Let Judon Blossom into the beast he's destined to be.

5) don't know how you think we're in range for peppers but I wish.. That would kill 2 birds with one stone as well but we would have to give up too much to get that high...and with the way Ozzie turns 3- 5 round picks into gold I doubt he's willing to mortgage that much..but we'll see. A lot will depend on if we win or lose Sunday and how far peppers slides. One can dream.

6) YES. zuttah has been a liability all year. Trade for a vet or draft one in the first 3 rounds.

7) disagree here. After I just saw pees most recent presser I changed my mind on him. This guy gets it- he just needs the personnel to succeed. ( more pass rushers) continuity is key here and the players surprisingly love him. Only guy I would consider as a replacement would be Marv Lewis... But who knows if that will even be an option.

8) not sure about that either- I wouldn't hate it- and ANOTHER OC for Joe to go into the season with is pretty ridiculous.. But he has to show he will be more committed to the run. Keep him around unless a no brainer candidate becomes available. Norv Turner is a thought but I'm not sure about him either.

9) obvious cuts such as arrington , watson and K lewis along with a few others. Need to get Webb's number down a bit more - he's always been a team player and willing to help out but he may not budge this time. I don't think he would get much elsewhere though and he knows that. Put a 2nd round tender on Orr, not sure what to do about Aiken. Give SSS some time to himself and then maybe offer him a 1 year respectable deal- many think its time to move on but the fact is he still can produce and we can limit his snaps and use him as a true #3  third down receiver .. Not taking any snaps away from perriman.. Still need to bring in a vet receiver though..the consensus seems to be Garcon is the best option.

A wr corps of 1) Wallace 2) Perriman 3) Garcon 4) SSS 5) Aiken 6 ) Campanaro 7) Moore sounds pretty intriguing to me with or without Steve.

Dixon is the guy who's gonna carry this offense. I'm telling yall- he is going to explode onto the scene as long as we keep him healthy.

Either way we should have a very healthy cap number going into next season and our hands will be a lot less tied. We don't usually make big  FA splashes but I smell a few big acquisitions.

Edited December 30, 2016 by January J

[January J]

11 minutes ago, rmw10 said:

Somewhat unrelated, but still kind of related... I'm looking forward to seeing Onwuasor start this weekend for the injured Zach Orr.  We know Orr has some limitations in coverage, and PO is a good dime candidate.  It would be nice to see if he's an option for that type of role next year and Orr might not be a full time player, at least on passing downs, anymore.

I'm also looking forward to seeing what peanut can do. Word was he was a fiesty one in training camp- let's see some of that on the feild.

Looking forward to seeing Perriman and Moore get a nice share of targets too, although we need to send sss out the right way. We want to keep Wallace happy as well who is just short of 1k yards... .I'm sure he will want to hit that mark. Lotta mouths to feed. Anybody have the exact number on how many yards mike needs for 1000?

[JustinB]

44 minutes ago, January J said:

I'm also looking forward to seeing what peanut can do. Word was he was a fiesty one in training camp- let's see some of that on the feild.

Looking forward to seeing Perriman and Moore get a nice share of targets too, although we need to send sss out the right way. We want to keep Wallace happy as well who is just short of 1k yards... .I'm sure he will want to hit that mark. Lotta mouths to feed. Anybody have the exact number on how many yards mike needs for 1000?

he needs 16 yards hes at 984

[LosT_in_TranSlatioN]

2 hours ago, Tank 92 said:

Thinking Jernigan's undisciplined gaffs and stupidity have probably lowered his value in Bmore.

Yeah. He's a stud when his A game is on, but he's also maddeningly inconsistent. I want to keep him here because when he's on his A game he's a very good pass rusher, but I think his value is in the $7-$8 mil range.

[PurpleCity5]

On 12/28/2016 at 7:42 PM, Ravensfan23 said:

Again what did Dennis Pitta and Ed Dickson show in 2010 that made the Ravens comfortable with cutting Todd Heap after a 40rec 599yds 15ypc 5TD season? Those two guys as rookies had a total of 12 catches for less than 200 yards. Even in hindsight you can't sit here and tell me that was a easy move to make. It's not about being easy, it's about what's best moving forward. 

I'll say the same thing I said about Forsett, the Ravens can't move forward with Pitta being your primary TE and if he's not your #1 guy than he's way too expense as a back up. Dennis Pitta was apart of the problem offensively. Not being able to consistently separate from LBs to take advantage of those favorable matchups is one of the reasons they team would throw short of the sticks so much. Of his 75rec only 4 were explosive plays and only 31 resulted in first down catches. His 8.5ypc was 2nd worse among the top 40 TEs in the NFL, so let's not act as if Pitta crushed it in 2016. I honestly think that any of the 4 young TE could produce he same numbers if not much better than Pitta if given the same opportunities. 

Then look at the 4 young TE and show me where Pitta fits, Maxx is a 2nd round pick who had a solid rookie season but injury robbed his sophomore season. He's also entering the 3rd year of a 4 year contract. You must find out what you have with him right now. He's almost guaranteed to see more action in 2017. Waller is a guy the Ravens love at TE and they'll continue to develop him so he's not going anywhere. They've found something with him in the redzone and role will just continue to grow. Boyle is clearly the best blocker and will be locked into that #2 role because of what he does in the run game. So if Pitta is nothing more than a glorified checkdown option, why should he take snaps away from those young guys?

 Also the biggest thing against Pitta is that large cap number. The Ravens can't keep him at that price tag and if Pitta and his people still feel he's among the better TEs in the NFL much like Boldin and Ngata he probably won't be willing to take a pay cut. 

Will admit you got a very good point in mentioning Pitta and Dickson, but at the same time Todd Heap was cut in training camp, what made that decision easier? Those two guys emerging in camp. 

We have so many guys we expect to step up in various positions that I personally think its too risky to cut Pitta this early. I personally expect Perriman, Young, Lewis, Pierce, and Judon to make strides this year and I don't think you can add another guy to that. 

Now let me say this, I don't think Pitta is here to stay, that I don't think is the case, just think we should wait till camp just to see what the other guys will give us. Maxx Williams was injured but prior till that said injuries we didn't hear much of him. He really didn't make an impact next season but of course you have to rely on him next season simply because of his draft selection. 

As far as Waller goes, I do blame some of his missed opportunities on his lack of targets, there were various times he was open and Joe did not look his way, but of course that drop vs Pitt was awful. 

I do question why Pitta gets so many snaps, but it just seems to me that all those guys you mentioned are situational players in their own right. Boyle has his moments but isn't a consistent option at TE and only gets reps because of his blocking. Waller is good for one catch a game and Gilmore just seems to struggle with the same thing this year as he did last year, can't get away from double teams and isn't consistent. It was a disappointing year for him. Williams just didn't get open often but I think he just needs to continue to build on himself similar to Perriman. 

If one of those four guys made more of an impact then I say we cut Pitta now, but since they haven't then I think we wait till camp and see what we have with those guys. Just feel that Pitta is on the field because he's better, and by a significant margin. As soon as he arrives all those guys just played the 2nd fiddle, that tells me something about the group, they have honestly been the most disappointing unit this season.

Edited December 30, 2016 by PurpleCity5

[PurpleCity5]

On 12/28/2016 at 7:54 AM, rmw10 said:

And that's fine, but are you really counting on that trio to step up?  Perriman is the one I'd count on but I don't see how you can rely on him being anything more than a #3 based on this year.  Camp has still yet to prove he can stay healthy.  I still like Moore but he might actually have more drops than catches in his limited playing time this year.  What happens if Wallace/other veteran (let's be real - it's going to be Wallace) gets hurt?  Then, we have nothing at WR once again.  Yes, you have other positions to address but WR is just as important.  I one of the few around here that actually likes a bit of what I've seen from Perriman, but there's absolutely no way you can go into the season with him as the de facto #2.

And yes, I realize that CB, OLB, and OL are needs, but that doesn't mean you can't address WR as well.  I think you have it in your head that we're going to drop a serious amount of money on those positions, when that's just not reality.  This will likely be another typical Ravens offseason where we add a second tier option at a few positions, and we can afford to do that almost across the board at the need positions.

I'd rather have Perriman go in as the de facto #2 then have Waller/Williams/Gilmore or anyone for that matter take over the the #1, Pierce replacing Williams, Judon replacing Doom or anything for that matter. Out of all guys Perriman just seems the most trustworthy, he has plenty to build off next season because you know what attributed to this year. For certain he cannot be the #1, I say keep Wallace if you can't find anyone and add Garcon. Agreed, on that point, but if you find someone better then I think you let go of Wallace and probably go out there and get another WR at a much cheaper cost if its there. 

WR is just a difficult situation because I don't think you can go into next year thinking Jimmy is going to be there for you 100% and keep working with scraps, you want a good CB then you're going to have to pay for one, same to be said about pass rusher.

[rmw10]

31 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

I'd rather have Perriman go in as the de facto #2 then have Waller/Williams/Gilmore or anyone for that matter take over the the #1, Pierce replacing Williams, Judon replacing Doom or anything for that matter. Out of all guys Perriman just seems the most trustworthy, he has plenty to build off next season because you know what attributed to this year. For certain he cannot be the #1, I say keep Wallace if you can't find anyone and add Garcon. Agreed, on that point, but if you find someone better then I think you let go of Wallace and probably go out there and get another WR at a much cheaper cost if its there. 

WR is just a difficult situation because I don't think you can go into next year thinking Jimmy is going to be there for you 100% and keep working with scraps, you want a good CB then you're going to have to pay for one, same to be said about pass rusher.

Relying on Perriman is just setting you up for disaster.  He's proven nothing so far.  He's shown some flashes, but nothing that says you can count on him for a full time workload just yet.  I know they won't because it makes no sense, but this team would be making a huge mistake if they didn't add something next to Wallace.

[Ravensfan23]

57 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Will admit you got a very good point in mentioning Pitta and Dickson, but at the same time Todd Heap was cut in training camp, what made that decision easier? Those two guys emerging in camp. 

We have so many guys we expect to step up in various positions that I personally think its too risky to cut Pitta this early. I personally expect Perriman, Young, Lewis, Pierce, and Judon to make strides this year and I don't think you can add another guy to that. 

Now let me say this, I don't think Pitta is here to stay, that I don't think is the case, just think we should wait till camp just to see what the other guys will give us. Maxx Williams was injured but prior till that said injuries we didn't hear much of him. He really didn't make an impact next season but of course you have to rely on him next season simply because of his draft selection. 

As far as Waller goes, I do blame some of his missed opportunities on his lack of targets, there were various times he was open and Joe did not look his way, but of course that drop vs Pitt was awful. 

I do question why Pitta gets so many snaps, but it just seems to me that all those guys you mentioned are situational players in their own right. Boyle has his moments but isn't a consistent option at TE and only gets reps because of his blocking. Waller is good for one catch a game and Gilmore just seems to struggle with the same thing this year as he did last year, can't get away from double teams and isn't consistent. It was a disappointing year for him. Williams just didn't get open often but I think he just needs to continue to build on himself similar to Perriman. 

If one of those four guys made more of an impact then I say we cut Pitta now, but since they haven't then I think we wait till camp and see what we have with those guys. Just feel that Pitta is on the field because he's better, and by a significant margin. As soon as he arrives all those guys just played the 2nd fiddle, that tells me something about the group, they have honestly been the most disappointing unit this season.

Both Todd Heap and Derrick Mason were cut before training camp in 2011 and what had to make that decision even tougher is the NFL being in a lockout so the Ravens couldn't see the development of Dickson and Pitta during offseason workouts or mini camps. As soon as the lockout ended, the Ravens cut Mason and Heap almost immediately. I have to think if there was no Lockout those moves would have come much earlier. 

I could see Pitta being like Forsett and being a guy cut during or after camp, but I also know his contract situation is much different than Forsett's was. Forsett was inexpensive and that made keeping him around much easier, Pitta is due like a 2Mil roster bonus on March 1st. The Ravens would save 3Mil by cutting him and that could go a long way to maybe adding someone like Melvin Ingram in FA. I think it'll be a situation to keep an eye on. 

[Tank 92]

2 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

Both Todd Heap and Derrick Mason were cut before training camp in 2011 and what had to make that decision even tougher is the NFL being in a lockout so the Ravens couldn't see the development of Dickson and Pitta during offseason workouts or mini camps. As soon as the lockout ended, the Ravens cut Mason and Heap almost immediately. I have to think if there was no Lockout those moves would have come much earlier. 

 

I believe Todd Heap requested his release so he could finish his career close to his family in Arizona. 

[Ravensfan23]

15 minutes ago, Tank 92 said:

I believe Todd Heap requested his release so he could finish his career close to his family in Arizona. 

Kind of hard to believe that was the case when Heap actually agreed to play for Arizona while visiting with the Jets. Also Heap himself said that the release caught him off guard in a 2011 presser leading up to the game vs the Ravens. Also at the time Harbs said it was tough to cut Heap but the Ravens needed cap space and wanted to play Pitta and Dickson.

[K-Dog]

50 minutes ago, Tank 92 said:

I believe Todd Heap requested his release so he could finish his career close to his family in Arizona. 

????

I have never heard such a thing.  

[Tank 92]

21 minutes ago, K-Dog said:

????

I have never heard such a thing.  

Well, kinda sorta. Not really a request for release but rather it was said he turned down a pay cut offer here to take similar in Arizona so he could be near his family. 

[PurpleCity5]

On 12/30/2016 at 3:38 PM, Ravensfan23 said:

Both Todd Heap and Derrick Mason were cut before training camp in 2011 and what had to make that decision even tougher is the NFL being in a lockout so the Ravens couldn't see the development of Dickson and Pitta during offseason workouts or mini camps. As soon as the lockout ended, the Ravens cut Mason and Heap almost immediately. I have to think if there was no Lockout those moves would have come much earlier. 

I could see Pitta being like Forsett and being a guy cut during or after camp, but I also know his contract situation is much different than Forsett's was. Forsett was inexpensive and that made keeping him around much easier, Pitta is due like a 2Mil roster bonus on March 1st. The Ravens would save 3Mil by cutting him and that could go a long way to maybe adding someone like Melvin Ingram in FA. I think it'll be a situation to keep an eye on. 

Yikes, I had no idea about that roster bonus. I thought he earned his incentives, in that case he might be toast, I still find it hard to trust the other guys though, for precautionary reasons we might keep him because as an offense we'll sorely regress if we get very little production from the TE position with the way the other guys played this year. 

[PurpleCity5]

On 12/30/2016 at 3:29 PM, rmw10 said:

Relying on Perriman is just setting you up for disaster.  He's proven nothing so far.  He's shown some flashes, but nothing that says you can count on him for a full time workload just yet.  I know they won't because it makes no sense, but this team would be making a huge mistake if they didn't add something next to Wallace.

I could say nearly the same thing for many of the other guys who we have relied to step up on in the past and will be relying on to step up on in the near future in regards to Perriman. To be fair to the guy we know the factors that contributed largely and a bright spot to it is that we feel that it won't be an issue for him. What I mean by that is more reps and most importantly establishing Chemistry between him and Joe which absolutely was not there this year. Let me ask you this, do you trust Michael Pierce, Maxx Williams, Crockett Gilmore or Matt Judon more? Those guys faced a significantly less cliff and didn't do much at all even when healthy. I mean these are guys who we're going to ask to step up and become an integral part of the team next year, why not expect our 1st round pick who has shown much more than these guys. I mean, if I can recall we asked Shareece Wright and Chykie Brown to step up. Reguardless, someone is going to have to step up for this team because we won't be able to do all the work on this team via FA/Draft.

Now I think we can upgrade Wallace and add another cheaper WR next year, what we really need is some one at the slot position because we haven't been effective there for a long time now, that's where I really want us to go at because it's a position that can really rip teams apart. 

Edited January 1 by PurpleCity5

[rmcjacket23]

On 12/30/2016 at 3:38 PM, Ravensfan23 said:

Both Todd Heap and Derrick Mason were cut before training camp in 2011 and what had to make that decision even tougher is the NFL being in a lockout so the Ravens couldn't see the development of Dickson and Pitta during offseason workouts or mini camps. As soon as the lockout ended, the Ravens cut Mason and Heap almost immediately. I have to think if there was no Lockout those moves would have come much earlier. 

I could see Pitta being like Forsett and being a guy cut during or after camp, but I also know his contract situation is much different than Forsett's was. Forsett was inexpensive and that made keeping him around much easier, Pitta is due like a 2Mil roster bonus on March 1st. The Ravens would save 3Mil by cutting him and that could go a long way to maybe adding someone like Melvin Ingram in FA. I think it'll be a situation to keep an eye on. 

Source for this?

[Ravensfan23]

5 minutes ago, PurpleCity5 said:

Yikes, I had no idea about that roster bonus. I thought he earned his incentives, in that case he might be toast, I still find it hard to trust the other guys though, for precautionary reasons we might keep him because as an offense we'll sorely regress if we get very little production from the TE position with the way the other guys played this year. 

I think that's a huge reason for the offensive struggles this year to be honest. Pitta's numbers may have looked good, but his inability to separate from LBs underneath caused problems. Now Waller and others didn't do much better but none of those guys saw the field nearly as much as Pitta either. Nothing Pitta did this season made me thing this offense would be in trouble without him simply because he wasn't a difference maker. I think if the hip injuries never took place a lot more people would look at Pitta and say man he looks like he's lost a step or two. But instead, the way he's actually come back from those injuries kind of makes people marvel at his ability to come back. 

I'm not beating up on Pitta, but I just think there wasn't much that came out of the TE position this year and he was the primary guy. The hope is Williams, Waller and Boyle all develop as 3rd year players. I think we'd all love it if they showed flashes that they are ready to take over but I don't think the Ravens have much choice if they want this offense moving forward. 

[Ravensfan23]

14 minutes ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Source for this?

No source, that's why I used the phrase like 2Mil because I was trying to remember a report I read earlier this year when his deal was restructured. Is that number not right? 

Actually I think that number maybe wrong. I know the Ravens will save about 5Mil if they cut Pitta after June 1 but without restructuring his deal or cutting him he'll count for about 7Mil against the cap. Way too much imo. 

[rmcjacket23]

11 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

No source, that's why I used the phrase like 2Mil because I was trying to remember a report I read earlier this year when his deal was restructured. Is that number not right? 

Actually I think that number maybe wrong. I know the Ravens will save about 5Mil if they cut Pitta after June 1 but without restructuring his deal or cutting him he'll count for about 7Mil against the cap. Way too much imo. 

I questioned because I can't find anything saying that they restructured his deal to include a roster bonus for 2017. As far as I knew, it was a straight paycut this offseason with some possible incentive earnbacks.

 

[BSHU_Miami]

Will an 8-8 season save Harbaugh as opposed to 7-9. I love Harbaugh, but I really think we need an offensive minded head coach to maximize this offenses full potential. 

I'm ready for a shake up in the coaching staff, we need a new voice. We come out way too flat, way too often.

[rmcjacket23]

21 minutes ago, BSHU_Miami said:

Will an 8-8 season save Harbaugh as opposed to 7-9. I love Harbaugh, but I really think we need an offensive minded head coach to maximize this offenses full potential. 

I'm ready for a shake up in the coaching staff, we need a new voice. We come out way too flat, way too often.

Actually this year we've come out anything but flat. Our first drives on offense are often our best drives of the entire game, and the defense is very clearly much better earlier in the game in most spots than they are later in the game.

[Militant X 1]

On 12/30/2016 at 3:38 PM, Ravensfan23 said:

Both Todd Heap and Derrick Mason were cut before training camp in 2011 and what had to make that decision even tougher is the NFL being in a lockout so the Ravens couldn't see the development of Dickson and Pitta during offseason workouts or mini camps. As soon as the lockout ended, the Ravens cut Mason and Heap almost immediately. I have to think if there was no Lockout those moves would have come much earlier. 

I could see Pitta being like Forsett and being a guy cut during or after camp, but I also know his contract situation is much different than Forsett's was. Forsett was inexpensive and that made keeping him around much easier, Pitta is due like a 2Mil roster bonus on March 1st. The Ravens would save 3Mil by cutting him and that could go a long way to maybe adding someone like Melvin Ingram in FA. I think it'll be a situation to keep an eye on. 

 

13 hours ago, rmcjacket23 said:

Source for this?

 

13 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

No source, that's why I used the phrase like 2Mil because I was trying to remember a report I read earlier this year when his deal was restructured. Is that number not right? 

Actually I think that number maybe wrong. I know the Ravens will save about 5Mil if they cut Pitta after June 1 but without restructuring his deal or cutting him he'll count for about 7Mil against the cap. Way too much imo. 

I could only find this info guys....

http://overthecap.com/player/dennis-pitta/1373/

[rmw10]

13 hours ago, Ravensfan23 said:

No source, that's why I used the phrase like 2Mil because I was trying to remember a report I read earlier this year when his deal was restructured. Is that number not right? 

Actually I think that number maybe wrong. I know the Ravens will save about 5Mil if they cut Pitta after June 1 but without restructuring his deal or cutting him he'll count for about 7Mil against the cap. Way too much imo. 

 

1 hour ago, rmcjacket23 said:

I questioned because I can't find anything saying that they restructured his deal to include a roster bonus for 2017. As far as I knew, it was a straight paycut this offseason with some possible incentive earnbacks.

 

I don't know if maybe this is the direction you're going Ravensfan, but Pitta will likely show up on the cap beyond the dead money due to the incentives he earned this year.  They were all considered NLTBE, and thus, will go on next year's cap instead.  I'm not aware of any roster bonuses, though.